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Drawing with markers

polycounter lvl 7
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SanderDL polycounter lvl 7
My teacher tells me we have to draw with markers because that's what all the pro designers do. Can someone tell me if this is really needed in the game industry.

I personally think it's pretty rediculous. You can draw with pencils or photoshop way more efficently if you ask me.

But really... drawing with markers I just can't get it in my head. Besides markers are FFing expensive!

Also it appears marker drawings fade off after a couple of months.

Ahh I'm just a little pissed off at the moment. So please Polycount calm me down. :)

Replies

  • kaptainkernals
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    kaptainkernals polycounter lvl 12
    SanderDL wrote: »
    Can someone tell me if this is really needed in the game industry.
    I can't speak for the game industry, but it is used in Storyboards quite a bit - which will be explained in the answer to your next question.
    SanderDL wrote: »
    I personally think it's pretty rediculous. You can draw with pencils or photoshop way more efficently if you ask me.
    The reason markers are used is simply because of the nature where you build up shapes with various tones of grey(more common method)(though you can easily do the same with PS), you can quickly and easily build up form with markers and pen very quickly. Pencil you would have to sketch and sketch, and eventually clean up in photoshop or with eraser. Markers you could build up using lighter markers, then go over with pen once you're forms and details are finalized - which cleanup in PS would be no more than a curve pushing the markers out. As for going straight PS, some people prefer concepting or storyboarding on paper before hand.

    To say that all the "Pros" do it is rather stupid, thats not a reason for a person to learn the skill. Also to say ALL the pro's do is not true, not all the pro's do it, some do it all digitally, some do it with pencil, some do it with markers - one who uses markers that comes to mind is Feng Zhu, but other than him, i can't bring to mind otherwise that work with markers alot. It's a valuable skill to have, some people may ask you to do it - film industry. But In the end it's a matter of personal preference and dependent on your workflow and what you are comfortable with. Remember games industry for the most part is about the end result - whether or not it's readable(concept art). Colleges like to see your work progress and how you are working.
    SanderDL wrote: »
    Also it appears marker drawings fade off after a couple of months.
    I haven't experienced this, I have marker drawings from 3 years ago that have had zero fading, so maybe you're experience is with inferior markers.

    Though having said all of the above, I haven't used my markers in the last 2 years.
  • Bibendum
    It's common to use wide tipped markers to do value sketches and silhouette sketches because yes, it is more efficient than a pencil.

    If you want some examples of typical marker sketches you should check out some of Feng Zhu's demos for Gnomon. He has a few really nice DVDs that are done with Prismacolor markers.

    I can't speak for everybody but I think most people are using digital only workflows by now simply because it's faster and easier to make changes.
  • SanderDL
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    SanderDL polycounter lvl 7
    Thanks for the quick replies. I guess it gets used more then I thought but still it bothers me so much that we HAVE to do this while there are other things more important then drawing with markers (for game art anyway... no offence).
  • HonkyPunch
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    HonkyPunch polycounter lvl 18
    i use a dry erase markers to throw down quick shapes or lines for things I think of, so I don't lose the idea of the basic shape. It's good for quick sketches IMO.
    then again i'm not a professional sooo yeah.
  • low odor
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    low odor polycounter lvl 17
    I had to do marker rendering in college ..it was a pain in the ass..yeah, and the barrel markers are expensive as hell..there were a few times I almost hocked them to other student so I could have food...(this was 15 years ago) It seems more of a graphic designer thing...I've seen concept artist do marker renderings, but not very often....it might be worth it to have in your skill set....but saying that all pros use them is balogna
  • Sandbag
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    Sandbag polycounter lvl 18
    Prismacolor markers are mega expensive...but you really cant beat them in terms of marker quality. Calling them a waste of time is pretty silly, that's like calling acrylic paint or colored pencils a waste of time. Just because it wont be the tool that you're using 100% of the time at a job doesn't mean you wont learn valuable lessons from using them.

    I didn't have a very big push on markers in my main illustration classes at school, our progression replaced markers with colored pencil and acrylic paint, but I did get to use them in my other art classes. It may feel horrible when you dont have the ability to throw down a new layer, erase, or hit undo, but the lessons you learn from color blending, color and intensity build up, blocking in lights and shadows early, layering, etc are all well worth the effort.

    Markers have a unique set of challenges and can make some really cool end results, so before you dismiss them check out some of the artists that are famous for using them like Feng Zhu and Doug Chiang. Here is a little mini tutorial from Doug Chiang's website:

    http://www.dchiang.com/robota/studiotips/one/studiotips1.html
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    I was about to rag on markers but I used prismacolor greyscale on bristol all the time in college - I feel like it really influenced how I draw in photoshop. So yeah, what Sandbag said.
  • fmnoor
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    fmnoor polycounter lvl 17
    markers and pens force you to commit to lines and shapes you put in. It's really nice and makes you think a little IMO.
  • Zack Fowler
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    Zack Fowler polycounter lvl 11
    If your focus is concept art, it could be useful. Mostly for storyboards as others mentioned, although I've seen people make great use of them for the exploration phase of design work. One of the concept artists I work with uses markers pretty often for sketching out rough ideas for designs that he then takes into Photoshop for polishing up. The way markers layer on tones encourages a certain kind of thought process while working that seems to help with environment and mechanical design. And as kaptain pointed out, it builds layers of shading much more efficiently than other physical media.

    As a game concept artist it would be worth getting familiar with them, but maybe not to the point of making super-polished marker art on the level of Dough Chiang or Feng Zhu. I wouldn't say it's a required skill, but you might be surprised how helpful it can be for exploring visual ideas in a different way. And it's even less necessary for a 3D artist, but physical media like that are always useful for expanding your range as an artist because they encourage different ways of thinking about design compared to Photoshop or a 3D package.

    I guess the bottom line is that you are very, very unlikely to be required to use markers as a game industry artist, but using them can do a lot to help improve your understanding of visual design.
  • SanderDL
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    SanderDL polycounter lvl 7
    I'm glad you guys give me valid arguments on why using makers isn't a waste of time. My teacher just kinda of told me to do it because he said so. Thanks people I guess I'll give markers a chance.

    I'm focusing on evironment art btw, in case anyone's wondering.
  • commador
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    commador polycounter lvl 14
    I enjoy using markers, sometimes to the chagrin of my illustration teacher. Sure a similar method can be reproduced digitally, but there is no ctrl-z with ink and paper. Its quite nice to throw down shapes and develop something cool while not being tethered to a PC. A small sketchbook and a few prismacolors or copics and you're ready to rock.
  • MagicSugar
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    MagicSugar polycounter lvl 10
    SanderDL wrote: »
    My teacher tells me we have to draw with markers because that's what all the pro designers do. Can someone tell me if this is really needed in the game industry.:)

    I don't think there's wide use in games, but for I.D. guys (who design concept cars, electric shavers, lamps, iphones, etc.) it's a marketable skill.

    You can find video tips and inspiration for that ID style here: http://www.idsketching.com/videos/

    Regarding Feng, he said he dropped markers in favor of Painter a long time ago. But his marker rendering skills and technique carried over into digital.

    Since you're in a class setting, I recommend just following your teacher. Having traditional tool experience should help you when you use digital markers especially when you want to customize your brushes or the effect you're going after.

    Yup markers will fade especially lighter tone ones and if you expose it to direct sunlight. You can minimize this effect if you spray it with a UV fixative spray which you can get from an art store.
  • moose
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    moose polycount sponsor
    Markers are fun! I wouldn't look at it as a "ugh the damn teacher is makin me do this bullshit," and more like its a new way to experience art and create stuff. I picked markers up for fun in college and they're by far one of my favorite ways to work.

    Plus as others have said it'll make you commit more, and get better.

    relax and have some fun with them, plus you can get some cool drawings out of it!
  • Mark Dygert
    You'd be amazed at how fast you can progress when you don't have ctrl-Z to fall back on.
  • aesir
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    aesir polycounter lvl 18
    moose wrote: »
    Markers are fun! I wouldn't look at it as a "ugh the damn teacher is makin me do this bullshit," and more like its a new way to experience art and create stuff. I picked markers up for fun in college and they're by far one of my favorite ways to work.

    Plus as others have said it'll make you commit more, and get better.

    relax and have some fun with them, plus you can get some cool drawings out of it!

    Yea, this exactly. Wtf. You're being told to draw things, not do complicated mathematical proofs. Don't whine, enjoy it.
  • ikken
    SanderDL wrote: »
    I'm focusing on evironment art btw, in case anyone's wondering.

    you should watch this -
    http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/product/332/Creating-Unique-Environments,-DIGITAL-DOWNLOAD

    he also has a few basic value/shape rendering videos that utilise both markers, pencils and charcoal

    Markers are LOT of fun, if you ask me (except, you'd better get the special marker paper that doesn't suck all of it's filling in a day)
    and stick to the good quality brands - either Prismacolor or Copics
    I prefer copics since they're refilable, really comfortable, have an extra-broad chisel option and I'm a japanfag
  • blankslatejoe
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    blankslatejoe polycounter lvl 18
    use whatever it takes to communicate the final thought/concept/image. Personally, I find working fully digital to be faster for every step of the concept process, even if mimicking the marker 'look'.
  • Swizzle
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    Swizzle polycounter lvl 15
    Vig wrote: »
    You'd be amazed at how fast you can progress when you don't have ctrl-Z to fall back on.

    Yes!

    While I do love Ctrl+Z, I always end up noodling around with digital stuff until it's just mush if I abuse it. This happens much less often with traditional media.
  • Frump
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    Frump polycounter lvl 12
    I had a concept art class in school where the teacher made us use markers. He justified it perfectly though and made us pick some some really cool concept art books for reference and inspiration.

    I really grew to love markers, although I don't work in traditional media much anymore. They are great if you're too impatient to build up volume with pencils, which I always am. Have a really nice smooth feel to them too. :)

    About ctrl+z, my bigger problem is the Delete key... Lately I have been just creating crap to add on to my character or whatnot and then totally deleting an hour of work to go a different direction. End up noodling for hours, in 2d and 3d.
  • Kwramm
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    Kwramm interpolator
    markers are awesome! I never got into them, but I love marker sketches and concepts. I think it'd be a nice skill to have....and yeah, those markers dry out quickly :(
  • Rwolf
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    Rwolf polycounter lvl 18
    The smell is awesome too. wait...
  • MagicSugar
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    MagicSugar polycounter lvl 10
    Rwolf wrote: »
    The smell is awesome too. wait...

    Chartpaks are the worst. Is this brand still in stores?

    I've tried copics, prismas, trias...but best marker experience for me is the Mars Staedtler 2000 set. Far as I know they only come in slim barrels. They're awesome because they're water based so they don't stink. And there's no bleed thru when you use regular sketchbook paper.

    I think this is the nextgen, the 3000s: http://www.staedtler.ca/watercolor_brush_marker_us.Staedtler

    I've only used the "2000" so can't confirm if it's the same. If you shop for markers, best if you go to the art store and try out some markers on scrap paper (some stores allow for that).
  • low odor
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    low odor polycounter lvl 17
    Rwolf wrote: »
    The smell is awesome too. wait...

    That's why you should buy low odor pens.....now everyone knows the dirty secret behind my handle
  • Jungsik
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    Jungsik polycounter lvl 6
    Vig wrote: »
    You'd be amazed at how fast you can progress when you don't have ctrl-Z to fall back on.

    True that Vig :)
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