i wouldn't want to see them smashed together, just want to see the core modeling tools of maya added to and improved.

max and maya work fundamentally different smashing them together would just piss of current max and maya users.

I reckon theyll phase maya out and we'll get max with interface switching ( and hopefully a usable curve editor) sometime in the next 2 or 3 years

i reckon this because theyve put very little investment in development compared to what theyve put into max over the last few years. if they intended to push it as a major platform they'd have done what they did with mudbox and actually spend some money on it.


Im pro max so its partly wishful thinking but i suspect it'll come to pass..

Originally Posted by poopipe

I reckon theyll phase maya out and we'll get max with interface switching ( and hopefully a usable curve editor) sometime in the next 2 or 3 years

i reckon this because theyve put very little investment in development compared to what theyve put into max over the last few years. if they intended to push it as a major platform they'd have done what they did with mudbox and actually spend some money on it.


Im pro max so its partly wishful thinking but i suspect it'll come to pass..

Based on the demos they've done in the recent past at shows like GDC, Siggraph, etc, this doesn't make any sense. They haven't added things to Maya that a lot of people want to see, but they're certainly adding pipeline functionality.

affraid not..

Maya is cross platform compatible so if anything....max will get faded out

Max will get a curve editor that doesn't bring the viewport to its knees when Maya gets upgraded modeling tools, which means never.

They are probably trying to push each as a unique solution for two different problems. Max to model, Maya to animate and enough talk between the two that it doesn't matter which department uses what. That probably explains all of the focus they have put on FBX since they merged. The problem comes from their timing they merged when both where pretty much equal so now they have to engineer inequality to separate the users.

it's a shame fbx is still out of synch really . All it'd take is a native quaternion import into max and correct handling of bone scaling and everything would be gravy..

I dont get why people dont use xsi, its strong in all areas ranging from modeling to render management and tool development..., max and maya are simply ages behind. Max still is good (awesome) for modeling (I mean 2009 max), but last time I tried using 2011 and 2012...I seriously could not work at all, shit was lagging like crazy and doing weird display things even with all the drivers up to date... and I was on a rush to find out what was doing that, havent been back since. (not to mention the bugs on the uv editor...etc)
Maya is better than max in the rendering area, but the simulation part is so behind they've got the core developement team from softimage ice to rebuild their simulation system.. hope we get ice for maya as well.

XSI, users. Capcom studio 4, CyberConnect2, whomever made that terrible dragon riders 3d cartoon, and a bunch more I am unaware of. I think I seen it in a Halo Reach making of somewhere but not entirely sure...

So best modeling package for vidya games?...how come nobody mentioned Zbrush?.

Originally Posted by Scruples

So best modeling package for vidya games?...how come nobody mentioned Zbrush?.

While Zbrush can certainly do a lot, and more features are added with every update, it cannot really be a replacement for 3d modeling, uving, rigging and scene creating application.

Ive worked on the Games industry for 12 years now as a Senior Environment artist and from my experience every place is different.

some have been entirely exclusive to 1 of the other.
soem have used both (project based) team 1 making Y game will be usuing Maya team 2 making X game will be on Max.
and others even have it mixed and just let the artists use what they want to use.
some even use XSI.

nearly all of them use Maya exclusivity for Animation / creating rigs and so on and never even bother trying to use max for it.

for me as an Artist i lean toward Max in a big way for modeling / texturing and view port shaders.
as a stand alone package Max has everything you need out of the box to get going and is super fast for mesh manipulation with a tonne of tools at your disposal.
Maya on the other hand (from a modeling point of view) is in my opinion severely lacking in tools department out of the box and only becomes useful and efficient to model with after you have thrown in allot of 3rd party scripts and whatnot to aid you. its a great package and its vert snapping tools work better than Max's.

But as a 'install and go' package Max wins hands down in my opinion also Ive never liked Mayas UI.

as far as what to learn to work in the industry? BOTH+Zbrush (if you are an artist)
all have Pro's and Con's in the end its just personal Pref.

also if you are ONLY modeling and nothing else XSI might even be better than both Max and Maya out of the box.

I was a longtime Maya user and started learning Max this year. I agree that from a modeling standpoint Max is a more complete package out of the box and I'm now transitioning over to it.

I am curious about modo though. Anyone have experience with it? Because it's license is tied to you personally and not a machine, I wonder if people use it in a production environment?

Seriously fuck smoothing groups... so dumb lol

You should try Modo, it has some really nice modeling tools. I would love to spend more time with it but my school uses Maya exclusively since it is widely considered the best for rigging and animation.

Originally Posted by turistainc

I was a longtime Maya user and started learning Max this year. I agree that from a modeling standpoint Max is a more complete package out of the box and I'm now transitioning over to it.

I am curious about modo though. Anyone have experience with it? Because it's license is tied to you personally and not a machine, I wonder if people use it in a production environment?

Hi Everyone {I'm a big fan of Polycount & have been lurking for a while now}

As a long time Max user, I recently gave Modo a solid try. It is a fantastic and intelligent 3D package. Unfortunately I've decided to go back to using Max, at least for the modeling side of things. Its kinda given me a new appreciation for Max

Modo Disadvantages {IMO} (only from modeling standpoint)
-Feels like it is missing too many modeling features.
-Doesn't have a modifier stack. (Deformers/Effectors are similar but that's for animating & tool pipe disappears once you apply the tool)
-Has some stability issues.
-Mesh container system can be annoying.
-Some of the tools struggle when used on mid to high poly meshes (e.g. Edge Slice).
-Difficult to pickup on and fix model errors. Even after using the MeshCleanup tool/script there are still some left behind.
-The selection system is irritating, I found myself constantly having to change the frontface, backface and partial selection settings.
-Wireframe views are difficult to read/make sense of.
-Aligning meshes is cumbersome and feels imprecise.
-Symmetry & Smoothing Group functions are bung.

Modo Advantages {IMO} (only from modeling standpoint)
-Actions Centers, Falloffs and Workplane
-Tool Pipe system is ingenious.
-Tabbed viewport presets (I like the idea of having a Modeling room, Topo room, etc)
-Viewport Performance and Navigation.
-Has a collision detection type snapping feature.
-Tab to toggle Subdivision mode and Shift+Tab to toggle Pixar Subdivision.
-Allows you to have multiple scene files open at the same time.
-Ease at which you can paint and use Vertex Maps to control subdivision.
-Plays nice with other applications (import/export).
-Many more.

I'd recommend everyone give Modo a go at least once. Definitely plan to make use of its other features and for certain modeling tasks.

To answer your other question, I believe that Valve and Id Software use it but I'm not sure to what extent.

I'd say Modo has the best out-of-the-box experience, and Max has the strongest potential. So it depends on your approach.

If you have the dedication to learn the multitude of tools for Max and the modifier stack, customize it, sift through a ridiculous amount of 3rd party tools, learn some scripting, and possess the creativity to put it all together to solve problems, then I don't see anything beating that. Oh, and you also have to learn to avoid all the things that makes it misbehave. It's going to beat your ass before you master it.

I believe the general consensus about Maya is that while it's not terrible, it's the least capable of the top apps, in terms of modeling. Of course, plenty of people are going to vocally disagree with that, but ask them to screenshare a modeling session in Maya and they shut up pretty quickly.

I just finished up my second full prop in Modo and I'm more and more in love with each one I do. Just a fantastic program and I'm continually finding out things about it.

Get to know that work plane. It's your personal coordinate system assistant.

And those UV tools. So f'ing good!

Blender!

*turns and runs*

Both max and maya is good.

using both have inspired me to try different approaches to transfer workflow between the 2 packages and do something new.

Maya forces you to work really clean and organized. whereas Max gives you more freedom.

Things I like in Max:

- Large amount of Modifiers
- Smoothing groups
- proper symmetry/mirror cut
- not having to clear history all the time lol

Things I like in Maya:


- UVing(Ive been using Max longer). Being able to tell if faces are flipped constantly is very useful. unfolding with slider is another tool I use all the time.

- Transfer attributes

- Connect components(maya 2011 I believe it was introduced)

Originally Posted by BARDLER

Seriously fuck smoothing groups... so dumb lol

You should try Modo, it has some really nice modeling tools. I would love to spend more time with it but my school uses Maya exclusively since it is widely considered the best for rigging and animation.

I agree about smoothing groups, they really need to go. Luckily there is a script that allows you to interact with edge smoothness/hardness almost the same way you do in Maya, select an edge and set it to smooth or hard. It was written by the same wonderful genius that wrote outliner for max, who is also a member of polycount.

http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/edgesmooth

Something else they need to do, is make the UV editor a mode you can enter at anytime without having to add a modifier to the stack. This would make tweaking the UV's on already skinned characters and doing operations like selecting UV sections on a mesh much much easier than it is currently.

Originally Posted by poopipe

I reckon theyll phase maya out

What on earth did they update the Maya interface from legacy code to a moderm qt? Or why are they investing in updating the viewport 2.0 with DX11?

http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/marce...nology-preview

They're long term stratergies. It would be the most ridiculous move to overhaul the backend of Maya only to shelve it in 2 or 3 cycles like you suggest.

Compared to what they've sunk into max over the last few years that's still nothing.

There's been a few persuasive arguments against my theory already but the fact remains, Maya has been the redheaded stepchild in terms of development effort. I'm not saying it's necessarily a good thing (although it'd make my life easier tbh), I'm just saying that if they were properly committed it'd have had investment on the same level as max and mudbox