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Modo 601

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  • seven
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    seven polycounter lvl 13
    Import/Export have some bad scale issues with obj, and there don't seem to be any settings related to that. FBX works fine, but apps like ZBrush wont accept other formats. How are the regular Modo users here getting around that? I can't even find a way to export selected :(

    Modo works with Zbrush's GoZ.
  • Ben Apuna
    I compiled a bunch of Modo related links for someone else a while ago which may be helpful to those just starting out with it:

    Modo to UDK

    hotkeys in modo

    Max to modo switch?

    Modo 501

    Quick Modo Question

    Symmetry in Modo

    Modo 501 is out now. How are the smoothing groups?

    Modo 401 for game art

    Modo: Pixel Snapping UVs

    Luxology Forum posts

    omg you can select by smoothing group!

    moto 2.0

    Seneca's latest modo scripts (12-18-10)

    Ariel Chai's got a lot of great Modo scripts too, be sure to check em out.
    http://www.svartberg.com/tutorials/resources.html

    I'm sure I'm forgetting many good links and some of the info is a bit dated as things may have changed in 601.
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    Modo seems so freaking powerful in modelling. In Action Centers tutorial how does he changes wireframe opacity with hotkeys ?
  • Farfarer
    You can bind the hotkey to a script which raises/lowers the opacity.

    I don't think there's standard hotkeys for that, you'd need to go into the viewport settings (hover over viewport and hit "o").
  • lefix
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    lefix polycounter lvl 11
    are you modo guys actually using the pixar subdivs or edge shader to bake your textures/normals? that stuff seems like a huge timesaver on first look.
  • seven
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    seven polycounter lvl 13
    lefix wrote: »
    are you modo guys actually using the pixar subdivs or edge shader to bake your textures/normals? that stuff seems like a huge timesaver on first look.

    The pixar subdivs really work well. They're especially handy in predicting how the mesh will actually behave in max or maya. But otherwise they're a necessity and a much needed upgrade from the standard SUBDs.

    Baking the edge shader out to a low poly normal map is one of the things I wanted to test out tonight/this weekend. If it works out it would be super awesome sauce with some awesome fruit and nuts sprinkled on it. I'll let you know how my tests go.
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 16
    please do! Im very interested in that aswell. That in combination with the edgeweights and pixar sub-ds would make for some insane modelling speeds.
  • Farfarer
    You can bake the edge shader out to a normal map, I'm pretty sure. Pretty much anything that happens in the renderer, you can bake.

    I'm not so sure if you can freeze it into a mesh for exporting to something like xNormal. Not played with it yet. (To be clear, tou can freeze the pixar subdivs and multi-res sculpting out to a high-res mesh, I'm just not sure about the edge shader).
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 16
    Talon wrote: »
    You can bake the edge shader out to a normal map, I'm pretty sure. Pretty much anything that happens in the renderer, you can bake..

    unfortunately not, for example the curvature stuff couldnt be baked in modo 501, which was sooo annoying, but there is another way to do that now : )
  • Farfarer
    The curvature stuff? As in the solid spline thingy? Huh, I asked Brad and he said it could be baked. Waaay back when 501 was released.

    Never had cause to actually try it and find out, though...
  • seven
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    seven polycounter lvl 13
    Did some tests to bake a normal map from rounded corners. Short answer is not in a hugely practical way. I got it to work but not in a way that works in a traditional workflow of high poly>lowpoly bake.

    It will not bake from one object to another like a traditional bake. It will however bake from the object to its self. The way I could see this working is if you were creating a low poly asset and you were looking at a quick way to get normal mapped beveled edges but don't have time to create a high poly object. You could add your smoothing groups, turn on the rounded edges option in the material and bake the rounded corners on to its self. The difficulty with this is your model requires the smoothing groups or hard edges in order to bake properly.

    It could save time but it would be nice to have the option to bake from an object to an object with better control on smoothing groups.
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 16
    Talon: No, as in baking a curvature map. You can bake an ambient occlusion node from high to low, but if you use the convexity or concavity it doesnt work, just wont bake. Really annoying bug. However in 601 you can just use the new bake down curvature to vertex map and then bake that out.

    seven: hmm, will have to check that out ^^
  • Rabbid_Cheeze
    Thanks Ben, a lot of useful links there. :)

    Now all that's left is figuring out where Modo hides the XYZ info for selected components (as opposed to items). Still can't make heads or tails of the input editor either, but setting up forms/macros/scripts is easy enough so it probably doesn't matter.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Ben Apuna wrote: »
    I compiled a bunch of Modo related links for someone else a while ago which may be helpful to those just starting out with it:

    Modo to UDK

    hotkeys in modo

    Max to modo switch?

    Modo 501

    Quick Modo Question

    Symmetry in Modo

    Modo 501 is out now. How are the smoothing groups?

    Modo 401 for game art

    Modo: Pixel Snapping UVs

    Luxology Forum posts

    omg you can select by smoothing group!

    moto 2.0

    Seneca's latest modo scripts (12-18-10)

    Ariel Chai's got a lot of great Modo scripts too, be sure to check em out.
    http://www.svartberg.com/tutorials/resources.html

    I'm sure I'm forgetting many good links and some of the info is a bit dated as things may have changed in 601.

    Thanks for the links!

    is there any place doing all in one tutorials/rundowns for it like Eat3d?
  • seven
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    seven polycounter lvl 13
    @Rabbid_Cheeze: That's something Modo doesn't really have. You can go to Geometry>Vertex>set position and set the position of that component. This works with edges and polygons as well but they don't work off the center of that component. It assumes that you want all of the vertices that belong to that poly or edge to the position you type in. The other option is to use an automatic action center and it will display the current world coordinate for that component. You then would have to move the component relative to that position in the normal xyz fields above. Sorry :-\

    @Computron: Luxology has really good documentation for their software with some nice tutorials and information built in if you click help>inline help. Luxology also sells their own tutorials which are decent. You can find them here. Digital Tutors has some here. The Gnomon Workshop has a few as well here.

    There are some on youtube as well.
  • gilesruscoe
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    gilesruscoe polycounter lvl 10
    Whats the learning curve like for modo nowadays? I used 401 briefly but never really delved into it much. Would it be much of a chore to switch from maya to modo?
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    I went maya>modo and am pretty comfortable, I didn't find the switch too jarring. I'm not a power-user by any stretch, but all the basics are more or less transposable, with a couple of quirks like any software. There's also a 'maya default keys' option you can use to get the ball rolling
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    seven wrote: »
    @Computron: Luxology has really good documentation for their software with some nice tutorials and information built in if you click help>inline help. Luxology also sells their own tutorials which are decent. You can find them here. Digital Tutors has some here. The Gnomon Workshop has a few as well here.

    There are some on youtube as well.
    \
    But have they been severely outdated from all the upgrades?
  • igi
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    igi polycounter lvl 12
    Sub-d modelling is pretty much remained same.From the game-artist side,I think only nice and remarkable improvement since the last a few updates is the implementation of smoothing groups in 501 release.Pretty much I don't see a real differences between modeling in 302 or 501.Really I wished to be able to do all major work in modo expect texturing but I realized this is an utopia(I used to tried to make everything in modo,yes including baking and viewport presentation!).But the awesomeness of the modeling tools still makes me use modo instead of revert back to one of the mainstream app of the industry.

    Modo is worth try for its fully customizable layout,tons of useful scripts and awesome uv-editor.Oh and its nice viewport navigation too.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Regarding Modo as a modeling tool : I keep hearing great things about it, but every time I give it a try I feel like it's not as great as it is made up to be ... For instance I installed the 302 and 501 trials last week to give them another spin after 2 years of not touching Modo, threw in a cube to start playing ... only to realize that the very first tool I needed (connect edges through their middle point) was nowhere to be found ...

    Now I realize that this might come from modeling habits specific to my own approach, but I find it odd that a program supposedly great at modeling wouldn't cover all bases.

    Maybe I am missing the obvious tho. I think my modeling habits are very simple but also very specific to a certain goal (making clean, watertight organic geometry as fast as possible) - I rely a huge lot on edge connection/redirection, extrusions, insets, and strip pulling/gap filling, and it is true that some of these do not come by default in every 3D app. I just wish that all these were available in Modo!
  • Rabbid_Cheeze
    pior wrote: »
    the very first tool I needed (connect edges through their middle point) was nowhere to be found ...

    Mesh Edit > Loop Slice (or alt-C).
  • Farfarer
    Connect edges via middle point is alt+c (loop slice). You can toggle between full loop or selected edges in the tool properties.

    Or there's edge slice, where you can draw out the path on the mesh. Dunno the shortcut for that off by heart.

    Extend is z, click and drag to extend selected edges.

    The tools you want are all there, they're just called different things :P

    Also, hover over any tool button to see a popup with it's keyboard shortcut (if it has one).
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Right on! Time to give it another try then :D (I hope we are talking about the same thing! hehe)
  • Pedro Amorim
    Also... Press V for edge turning. Something I miss in max for example.. Being able to quickly change edge orientation is awesome :)
  • skurmedel
    All the tools you are looking for is there, I find myself looking for Modo's tools in Maya.

    Building upon Rabbid_Cheeze's answer, some good modeling hotkeys.
    Shift + X = Extrude
    Z = Edge Extend
    V = Spin Edge
    B = Bevel
    P = Make face (after selecting vertices, preferably counter clockwise)
    Ctrl + L = Connect Vertices
    F = Flip Face
    H = Hide selected components
    U = Unhide all
    L = Make loop selection
    Backspace = Kill edges (and remove lone vertices, "Delete Edge" in Maya)
    Shift + G = Select Between
    Shift + C = Edge Slice

    With many tools you can press Middle Mouse Button to redo the tool in some way. Slice tools and so forth lets you put a new slice/loop down, extrusion redo's the extrusion, translates translates again etc.

    I also use the Add Loop and Add Point tools all the time, they blow Maya's equivalent out of the water. Sadly they don't have hotkeys by default.

    In Modo 601 the Ctrl + 5 and 6 Pie Menus are very useful.
  • seven
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    seven polycounter lvl 13
    @Computron: They're not outdated. Some things are slightly different but the core hasn't really changed. Modo builds on its self. There isn't any huge revamps that make tutorials obsolete. It may feel a little weird if the UI looks a bit different but if you have any questions the inline help system within modo is super helpful in that regard. Or you can PM me. I've been using Modo for I want to say 10 years... but that seems like an awful long time. I have been using it since the end of 103.

    @pior: You'll also want to use edge slice or quick key C. Most of the tools you're use to in another app are in modo they're just called something different.
  • seven
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    seven polycounter lvl 13
    Also to build off of what skurmedel said additional uses for tool functionality can be found by using shift while in a tool. For example if you don't want to drop the extend tool because you want to do that function again, you can hold shift and click off of the edge and pull. This will extend the edge another time. Rinse and repeat. Super handy.
  • lefix
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    lefix polycounter lvl 11
    I recommend this tutorial by luxology: http://www.luxology.com/store/06_real-time_assets/index.aspx

    I watched this when i tried out 301 back then. It covers sub-d modeling, texture baking etc. If i recall correctly, it shows how to set up custom hotkeys for modeling at the beginning, too.

    That being said, someone really should do a similar free tutorial for the current version ;)
  • Rabbid_Cheeze
    I made a thread trying to figure out how to select newly created geometry automatically, but no bites yet: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96094

    Max lets you just shift-lmb drag to do the same thing.
  • Ben Apuna
    Check out the "paste and select" script from Seneca: http://www.indigosm.com/modoscripts.htm but get the newer versions of his scripts from here http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=52061
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Thanks for the helpful insight guys! I got a few more questions. what do most of you do in modo? Are there very specific things like sub-d modeling that you prefer to do in modo before switching Apps? Do any of you bake normals/ambiocc for UDK? Is the texturing at least better than viewport canvas in Max? Do studios usually require their employees to use autodesk software for their exporters, and does this effect your ability to make environments quickly?


    I would prefer not having to switch between apps a million times a day, but it seems to me like a lot of polycounters only use modo for sub-d.
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    Its good to check Auto Activate in some tools (under lists menu). Great thing about modo is that every tool can be use however you like. Each tool is highly customizable. I'm trying to learn it since its just fun app to work with. I love uving in modo (hate doing it in 3ds max). Anyone creates low poly in modo ? Modos viewport ain't to friendly for hard surface retopo (probably can be customized but I just don't know how to ;p). Its easier to read maxs viewport when I'm doing low poly for hardsurface.
  • 3DFM
    Ben Apuna wrote: »
    I compiled a bunch of Modo related links for someone else a while ago which may be helpful to those just starting out with it:

    Modo to UDK

    hotkeys in modo

    Max to modo switch?

    Modo 501

    Quick Modo Question

    Symmetry in Modo

    Modo 501 is out now. How are the smoothing groups?

    Modo 401 for game art

    Modo: Pixel Snapping UVs

    Luxology Forum posts

    omg you can select by smoothing group!

    moto 2.0

    Seneca's latest modo scripts (12-18-10)

    Ariel Chai's got a lot of great Modo scripts too, be sure to check em out.
    http://www.svartberg.com/tutorials/resources.html

    I'm sure I'm forgetting many good links and some of the info is a bit dated as things may have changed in 601.

    Thank you soooo much for this!

    Coming from Maya the action centers was probably the most confusing thing ever, till now.
  • igi
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    igi polycounter lvl 12
    @Computron: Unfortunately modo doesn't have cage baking system.It does bake tangent-space normals and AO by ray distance method which isn't right unless you're baking something on a flat plane.I used to bake everything in modo but this gave me wrong results in any game-engine.So baking hi-poly in modo is not available yet.Most of modo users bakes stuff in xNormal.It's not really hard to implement into your workflow.Or you can still use 3dsmax or maya for baking.

    As far as I'm concerned there are plenty of studios have modo users.Most of people in ID software are using modo for example.Nonetheless,this is highly depends on the studios decision whether allow to use it or not.

    You can easily export-import stuff by using fbx exporter between max-modo-udk.I've never had real problems with it.Just open up all needed apps before starting your work.Spend a few second for clicking import-export buttons but totally this worths the time spent on modeling you would save :)
  • rooster
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    rooster mod
    I feel like I should add something to my last statement- getting alpha to render correctly in the viewport is a pain.. as far as I can tell there's no 'alpha test' option either so the mesh of transparent objects always occludes other transparent objects..
  • cptincognito
    Modo is amazing, been using it for 6 years now and it's hard to model/UV in anything else. This video is a great explanation of the interface, and why the action centers are a great concept:
    http://content.luxology.com/community/user_tutorials/seneca/SENECA_MODO_ACTRS.mov
  • Farfarer
    skurmedel wrote: »
    All the tools you are looking for is there, I find myself looking for Modo's tools in Maya.

    ...

    P = Make face (after selecting vertices, preferably counter clockwise)

    ...
    I really recommend getting Seneca's "Make Poly" script and bind that to p instead.

    Lets you select either verts or edges and make polys out of those (rather than verts).
  • EarthQuake
    Talon wrote: »
    I really recommend getting Seneca's "Make Poly" script and bind that to p instead.

    Lets you select either verts or edges and make polys out of those (rather than verts).

    P creates a face in edge mode too, maybe it didn't in early versions?
  • Farfarer
    Oh right. No in early versions you had to select the verts around the outside of the poly you wanted to create.

    I've been using Seneca's script since, ehr, probably 101 or 201 and never bothered to check otherwise :P

    edit: Yeah, I've just tested it and it works perfectly fine with the built-in function. No need for that script then :D
  • passerby
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    passerby polycounter lvl 12
    have the finally put in the option to have crossing box selections in 601, that has always been a annoyance with me and modo since it makes doing edge and face selections a bitch.
  • Rabbid_Cheeze
    For UVs, is there anything equivalent to Max 2012s Straighten Selection (Takes a UV shell and average-flattens every loop in it at the same time)? Its a huge time saver when trying to get really clean UVs.
    Ben Apuna wrote: »
    Check out the "paste and select" script from Seneca: http://www.indigosm.com/modoscripts.htm but get the newer versions of his scripts from here http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=52061

    Thanks Ben :)
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    For UVs, is there anything equivalent to Max 2012s Straighten Selection (Takes a UV shell and average-flattens every loop in it at the same time)? Its a huge time saver when trying to get really clean UVs.

    I love that tool, I hope its in modo as well
  • seven
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    seven polycounter lvl 13
    @Rabbid_Cheeze: Yes... there's something that's not as automated but it is more flexible. You straighten the uv edges you want and on whatever axis it needs to be on. Then you make a custom action center using the local as it's center and element as its axis. You can then select the a uv edge that you have straightened on the u or v. Activate your scale widget. You will find that the widget matches the reference edge. Uncheck negative scale and you can scale it to zero all at the same time.

    You can also save this custom action center so you don't have to set it up every time. This video should show you how http://www.luxology.com/training/video.aspx?id=530

    Also there's a video somewhere where Seneca shows the power of action centers... don't know if it's been posted here or not.
  • Rabbid_Cheeze
    Seven: You mean having centers set to local with auto axis and scaling to zero right? I tried that, but it's a pita because Modo doesn't respect shell borders when using ring/loop in the UV window.

    There's also a script called UVRector2.py that seems like it does the same thing as Straighten Selection, but I can't get it to work correctly in 501.
  • seven
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    seven polycounter lvl 13
    That combination should work as well but I use element as the axis because it allows me to choose a reference edge. I don't grab the boarder of the shell. I grab the internal bits using ring/loop in the uv window and it works fine for me. It's not as automated as max but it's what's there.

    I'll have to look around but sometimes scripts have been updated but not every location on the internet... I know Seneca doesn't really maintain his scripts on his site any more but he has updated a few (if that's a Seneca script)
  • Ben Apuna
    @Rabbid_Cheeze:

    Check this site out: http://park7.wakwak.com/~oxygen/lib/script/modo/category.html

    What you want is one of the uvrecter scripts (sorry I forget which one is the good one). Also grab the uvratio.py and UVBlockAligner.py script while you're there. Many of the other scripts on that site are pretty useful/interesting too.
  • Rabbid_Cheeze
    seven wrote: »
    I grab the internal bits using ring/loop in the uv window and it works fine for me.

    This is what happens when I use loop in the UV window

    modoUVLoop.jpg

    Notice how the loop is continuous on the geometry instead of stopping at the edges of the UV shell? It means a single loop can result in multiple loops in different axis occurring on the UV. Maybe this is something they changed for 601?
  • Swizzle
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    Swizzle polycounter lvl 15
    If you want to select only one part of that loop in the UV window, just double click on whichever section you want in the UV window and it will only select connected edges.
  • MrOneTwo
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    MrOneTwo polycounter lvl 12
    Have you noticed that in previous versions toggling subd would smooth out UVs but in 601 it doesn't do that ?
  • Snefer
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    Snefer polycounter lvl 16
    That is a setting, also the UVs work differently with pixar sub-D and normal sub-D. You can also specify if you want linear UVs or not : ))
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