Thanks for the kind words everyone I am now hoping to get much more active in the community in the coming months, and cannot wait for it !
As for perspective vs orthos - yeah, it's a bit of a never ending debate, thanks for the input guys ... I've heard a lot of supporters for either, or both ... From a concept standpoint I think it's also good to work on a design in another image altogether (messy and not to be shown) and then transfer that to the final model sheet later. But this takes longer ...
On a side note, I don't know if that is a coincidence but I just got told that the ES set made with Redmoon is on sale today too !! 75% off for the next 16 hours. I am happy (sorry for the spam !)
Hehe thanks Blade Squeezing in a Greentooth is always good fun
So, after doing some work for third parties I thought it would be fun to come back to more public workshop stuff. I have been thinking for a while about various ways to "think outside the workshop box" ; basically, identifying ways in which the art community could contribute to the game besides hero sets, wards and couriers.
And now that the Ti4 Compendium is revealing more intriguing stretch goals like "Base customisation" and "New upgraded Creeps" it seems like a great time to do so !
Here's the idea - what if, somehow, a team of players could use custom Lane Creeps ? I love the look of the default ones as they fit very well within the "forest" theme of the game, but what if there were packs that the players could acquire in the store, that would replace them with something new ? It could strengthen the feeling of going against the enemy as a cohesive group.
From there I thought that the Slithereen would be a good place to start, since the Dota lore mentions that they actually are an army/society with a complex hierarchy. One could imagine the Creeps as being their basic soldier units.
Here are a few sketches to get me started. I usually don't post things that early in the design process but I thought it would be a nice change This is mostly focusing on the core look of a species of fish-men ; later on I will be diving (no pun intended !) into the specific Creep types, and Radiant/Dire versions based on the existing ingame model rigs.
This is a bit of a can of worms to open (who knows if Valve would even implement them !) but I see it as a nice change of pace compared to sets and other usual items.
In the coming days I will be polishing/expanding on these designs doing tight model sheets for all of them ; and them maybe form a team of people potentially interested in trying to make it happen
it would be allover lovly if there would be not only radiant and dire, but real races like for example ur naga people or i could also imagine undead, orcs, humen..
and to bring this idea to the limit those half dota map could be also made in that style of that race and in start of every dota game u get a random race/mapdesign for ur base.
Aaaalright - the Veno set for DotaCinema just got submitted to the workshop !
I was a little bit less involved in this set than previous submissions (basically doing concept art and the promo pic, and a tiny bit of texturing ; while Brandon and DC took care of the rest), so it was a very interesting, if different experience !
Well, apparently having a kick ass concept artist really makes a difference for the modeller. The contrast between this Veno set and other stuff from is really something interesting, wondering if you did something else besides concepting?
Also, the cursors are a pretty 'meh' idea to be honest, seems like DC is trying to be different and 'innovate' but are really trying too hard.
Anyway, great work! Really impressed by the result.
Brandon really went all in and did everything when it comes to modeling (sculpt, lowpoly, rigging and exporting) and texturing (zbrush polypaint, baking, and so on). My only contribution as "additional texturing" was to reproject the community-voted "camo" patterns onto the wings and fangs, and doing the cursors.
This was actually an interesting experience for me, as I usually tend to be a bit anal about everything, wanting to control every possible step down to the workshop submission ... so, this taught me a few lessons in terms of managing time and priorities !
As for the cursors, I suppose we'll have to see how things goes ? It sure is a new kind of extra but after all, this small detail can affect the perception of the game quite a bit - similarly to how custom cosmetic weapon skins for QuakeIII sometime made the game feel more accurate than when playing with the default guns. I think it could be a nice addition to the HUD/Loading screen/Ability icons category !
Set looks really nice and vibrant! I'm not so sure about the custom cursors thing, since the cursor should really be as non-distracting as possible. If I could, I'd probably just use the regular windows mouse instead of the big fat one that Dota uses.
Great job as always Pior! I think the cursors would be a great idea if there's also a custom HUD/ability icons to go along with it, you know, complete the package?
came out great! are there any other color styles included? there was a lot of great options shown.
I also love the idea of the cursors - I'm assuming that was your idea?
I would definitely be interested in buying cursors, but probably separate from sets. I don't want yet another thing to do for a submission T______T /whine
And yeah, it does open the possibility of full packs of them ... It's a fine line really : should they be packed for free as little bonus with a given set ... should they come in packages of 6 or 12 ... or should they be a standalone thing, as part of a chest opening scheme maybe ? ("open two copies of a given chest, and get a guaranteed specialty cursor !") At that point it's all up to Valve to see what fits really - as usual !
And yeah Suko I agree, they indeed would be a very logical fit for custom UI/Loading screen packages... possibilities are endless !
Looks great man! Saw this from the last DC vid.
I'd be interested to know how DC item bundles do in comparison to single or small team workshop artist ay. It's crazy in this sorta free market, how things have evolved to involve pros, 3rd party teams, media, tournament hosts. Really cool to see.
DC have a huge marketing machine at their disposal, even more so than a pro player or pro team I believe.
It's a subject that has been brought up a few times here, and I have to say I am still on the fence. I thought that this proposal coming from DC would be, if anything, an interesting first time experience in terms of exploring the different facets of the workshop ; but at the same time, I firmly believe that artists can get known for themselves without any "push".
Plus one thing to consider, is that having "middle men" involved can mean more discussions and more lengthy back and forth exchanges, which can potentially create inertia eventually slowing a project down. The DC guys are, however, very enthusiastic and accommodating, so I have to say it was a pleasant surprise on that end.
Besides that and quite ironically, I think that the most interesting part about working with (or is that "for" ?) a third party isn't the exposure, the extra upvotes or anything like that ... but rather the simple fact that it means sticking to deadlines and getting things done !
Also, on the subject of third parties : I do believe that the smarter ones out there will soon start to realize that instead of asking for a split of the artists' revenue in exchange of exposure, they should just let the full profits go to the artists, thus building an art-friendly reputation for themselves which can only benefit them in the long run. I only understood this recently through conversations with other artists, and it seems to make a lot of sense !
This time this is a collaboration with the great hot Motenai, commissioned by Evil Geniuses. This was a true labor of love, and quite a complex set to handle but we learned a ton !
If accepted we are hoping that it will be an "evolving" set, but if not, we'll be happy with lvl3 !
Motenai took care of the modeling and texturing, while I worked on concept art, icons and promo + a tiny bit of extra work here and there. I will post some of the concept pics for it soon too.
Now after these two commissions done over the last few months I really cannot wait to go back to more public stuff to be shared actively with the community (getting feedback along the way, solving tech issues as an open community, and so on). Commissions sure are interesting, and it was something I was curious to try out when asked to ... but I feel like there is something very special about doing 100% "artist made" items, as an individual and/or as a team of like-minded artists.
Anyways - I sincerely hope you'll like it. Fingers crossed !
Oh hell yessss!! Such an amazing concept and an even more mindblowing execution by Motenai. Absolutely loved watching some of the process on the Hangout, and seeing everything up on the Workshop, specially since it's for one of my favorite players!
@Pior Awesome!! Well Motenai modeling speaks for itself. Only crit I have is that her dress looks well... empty on 1st level. It could be better if 1st level as well would have some belt elements. Reserving shield and such for 2-3 level.
Wow, awesome set, im speechless again...
But srsly, now that the set is done and already up on the workshop, can you show us the original concept for this one? I'm sooooo desparate to see it
Some of the concept art done for the project (lots of other sketches and renders were done on the way too of course, like tighter designs for the swords, tail, and so on) :
Adore the helmet, shoulders and swords, but the feet/tail/belt came out a bit too busy and heavy I feel. I think it shifts the center of mass way low to the ground and gives an almost slug like feel to the animation when it otherwise feels very light/gliding, especially since the armor moves so much and deforms like a belly. In the loadout view, the shields on the belt draw a lot of attention away from the badass swords (not as much of an issue ingame which is what counts but I thought I'd mention it). Same goes for the tail, the two light lures, along with the high specular gold rings, battle for my eyes attention with the body. A lot of the bright, popping golds along with the the big value changes/high contrasts can are present in the lower half of the body which continually draws my eye away from her upper body and face. As an experiment, I would love to see a version of this set where it starts out with the golden variation of the set, and the further you get to ground level, the more if moves into the more muted steel variation to see if that would work to address what is buggy me about it.
On a technical level, this is all awe-inspiring and phenomenally executed, the icons are gorgeous and easy to read, presentation is exemplary.
Yup, I totally see what you mean - it's been a very tricky balancing act ... As a matter of fact I am huge fan of Less is More, removing as much stuff as possible in order to get down to the essentials of a design idea ... but it turns out that's a tricky thing to do when working with a greenlit design ...
That's another lesson learned from this exercise : "Artists-made" items can be edited/redone at will, while commissions are much trickier in that regard since there are other people involved, deadlines, and so on.
Yup, I totally see what you mean - it's been a very tricky balancing act ... As a matter of fact I am huge fan of Less is More, removing as much stuff as possible in order to get down to the essentials of a design idea ... but it turns out that's a tricky thing to do when working with a greenlit design ...
That's another lesson learned from this exercise : "Artists-made" items can be edited/redone at will, while commissions are much trickier in that regard since there are other people involved, deadlines, and so on.
Thank you for the constructive feedback !
That's a real pity, because if there was anything I hope you guys would change it would likewise be how heavy and bulky the tail looks. I get that it looks a little like a tank/battleship, but I feel that it takes away that lithe, light look to Naga's tail.
Thanks for the feedback 87 ! And I think I see what you mean - maybe the 'on' state could show her lifting her head up, and singing with her mouth wide open ... I sure take note for next time !
Replies
As for perspective vs orthos - yeah, it's a bit of a never ending debate, thanks for the input guys ... I've heard a lot of supporters for either, or both ... From a concept standpoint I think it's also good to work on a design in another image altogether (messy and not to be shown) and then transfer that to the final model sheet later. But this takes longer ...
On a side note, I don't know if that is a coincidence but I just got told that the ES set made with Redmoon is on sale today too !! 75% off for the next 16 hours. I am happy
http://www.dota2.com/store/
So, after doing some work for third parties I thought it would be fun to come back to more public workshop stuff. I have been thinking for a while about various ways to "think outside the workshop box" ; basically, identifying ways in which the art community could contribute to the game besides hero sets, wards and couriers.
And now that the Ti4 Compendium is revealing more intriguing stretch goals like "Base customisation" and "New upgraded Creeps" it seems like a great time to do so !
Here's the idea - what if, somehow, a team of players could use custom Lane Creeps ? I love the look of the default ones as they fit very well within the "forest" theme of the game, but what if there were packs that the players could acquire in the store, that would replace them with something new ? It could strengthen the feeling of going against the enemy as a cohesive group.
From there I thought that the Slithereen would be a good place to start, since the Dota lore mentions that they actually are an army/society with a complex hierarchy. One could imagine the Creeps as being their basic soldier units.
Here are a few sketches to get me started. I usually don't post things that early in the design process but I thought it would be a nice change
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/ArmyoftheSlithereen002-small_zps2481a3e2.jpg~original
This is a bit of a can of worms to open (who knows if Valve would even implement them !) but I see it as a nice change of pace compared to sets and other usual items.
In the coming days I will be polishing/expanding on these designs doing tight model sheets for all of them ; and them maybe form a team of people potentially interested in trying to make it happen
Let me know what you think !
Add gills may be
and to bring this idea to the limit those half dota map could be also made in that style of that race and in start of every dota game u get a random race/mapdesign for ur base.
but creep only got 2 types only right... there seems got 4 there.
and it somehow reminds me this XD
http://cartoonsimply.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/keroro-platoon-sgt-frog-keroro-gunso-5075483-1024-768.jpg
That compendium goal is gonna open up so much more customisation and colour!
Definitely looking forward to that!
hope they will get that goal
I was a little bit less involved in this set than previous submissions (basically doing concept art and the promo pic, and a tiny bit of texturing ; while Brandon and DC took care of the rest), so it was a very interesting, if different experience !
Poison of the Flytrap collection link
[ame="
Also there is a little extra in it - we are trying to see if custom cursor icons can become a thing ! I guess we'll see how this goes
Now that this one is out of the way ... time for the next ones !
Also, the cursors are a pretty 'meh' idea to be honest, seems like DC is trying to be different and 'innovate' but are really trying too hard.
Anyway, great work! Really impressed by the result.
Brandon really went all in and did everything when it comes to modeling (sculpt, lowpoly, rigging and exporting) and texturing (zbrush polypaint, baking, and so on). My only contribution as "additional texturing" was to reproject the community-voted "camo" patterns onto the wings and fangs, and doing the cursors.
This was actually an interesting experience for me, as I usually tend to be a bit anal about everything, wanting to control every possible step down to the workshop submission ... so, this taught me a few lessons in terms of managing time and priorities !
As for the cursors, I suppose we'll have to see how things goes ? It sure is a new kind of extra but after all, this small detail can affect the perception of the game quite a bit - similarly to how custom cosmetic weapon skins for QuakeIII sometime made the game feel more accurate than when playing with the default guns. I think it could be a nice addition to the HUD/Loading screen/Ability icons category !
I also love the idea of the cursors - I'm assuming that was your idea?
I would definitely be interested in buying cursors, but probably separate from sets. I don't want yet another thing to do for a submission T______T /whine
hehehe
And yeah, it does open the possibility of full packs of them ... It's a fine line really : should they be packed for free as little bonus with a given set ... should they come in packages of 6 or 12 ... or should they be a standalone thing, as part of a chest opening scheme maybe ? ("open two copies of a given chest, and get a guaranteed specialty cursor !") At that point it's all up to Valve to see what fits really - as usual !
And yeah Suko I agree, they indeed would be a very logical fit for custom UI/Loading screen packages... possibilities are endless !
I'd be interested to know how DC item bundles do in comparison to single or small team workshop artist ay. It's crazy in this sorta free market, how things have evolved to involve pros, 3rd party teams, media, tournament hosts. Really cool to see.
DC have a huge marketing machine at their disposal, even more so than a pro player or pro team I believe.
keen to see what's next man!
It's a subject that has been brought up a few times here, and I have to say I am still on the fence. I thought that this proposal coming from DC would be, if anything, an interesting first time experience in terms of exploring the different facets of the workshop ; but at the same time, I firmly believe that artists can get known for themselves without any "push".
Plus one thing to consider, is that having "middle men" involved can mean more discussions and more lengthy back and forth exchanges, which can potentially create inertia eventually slowing a project down. The DC guys are, however, very enthusiastic and accommodating, so I have to say it was a pleasant surprise on that end.
Besides that and quite ironically, I think that the most interesting part about working with (or is that "for" ?) a third party isn't the exposure, the extra upvotes or anything like that ... but rather the simple fact that it means sticking to deadlines and getting things done !
Also, on the subject of third parties : I do believe that the smarter ones out there will soon start to realize that instead of asking for a split of the artists' revenue in exchange of exposure, they should just let the full profits go to the artists, thus building an art-friendly reputation for themselves which can only benefit them in the long run. I only understood this recently through conversations with other artists, and it seems to make a lot of sense !
This time this is a collaboration with the great hot Motenai, commissioned by Evil Geniuses. This was a true labor of love, and quite a complex set to handle but we learned a ton !
[ame="
If accepted we are hoping that it will be an "evolving" set, but if not, we'll be happy with lvl3 !
Motenai took care of the modeling and texturing, while I worked on concept art, icons and promo + a tiny bit of extra work here and there. I will post some of the concept pics for it soon too.
Now after these two commissions done over the last few months I really cannot wait to go back to more public stuff to be shared actively with the community (getting feedback along the way, solving tech issues as an open community, and so on). Commissions sure are interesting, and it was something I was curious to try out when asked to ... but I feel like there is something very special about doing 100% "artist made" items, as an individual and/or as a team of like-minded artists.
Anyways - I sincerely hope you'll like it. Fingers crossed !
Astounding work both of you!
But srsly, now that the set is done and already up on the workshop, can you show us the original concept for this one? I'm sooooo desparate to see it
Congratulations to both of you!
Apparently, they were wrong.
Salute
Early concept sheet -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/motenai_pior_NS_012-xsmall_zpsd7b322cc.jpg~original
Color variants research -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/motenai_pior_NS-colorvariants-small_zps103845df.jpg~original
Some early exploration sketches -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/motenai_pior_NS_sketches_002-small_zps89db7446.jpg~original
On a technical level, this is all awe-inspiring and phenomenally executed, the icons are gorgeous and easy to read, presentation is exemplary.
That's another lesson learned from this exercise : "Artists-made" items can be edited/redone at will, while commissions are much trickier in that regard since there are other people involved, deadlines, and so on.
Thank you for the constructive feedback !
That's a real pity, because if there was anything I hope you guys would change it would likewise be how heavy and bulky the tail looks. I get that it looks a little like a tank/battleship, but I feel that it takes away that lithe, light look to Naga's tail.
The rest of the set is ace though!
The ulti icon leaves something to be desired though, it doesn't have much emotion going on when compared to the power the ability possesses.
Regardless though, it's all super awesome.
Man, u made me feel like a child when I saw this.
Outstanding, awesome...