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  • motenai
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    motenai polycounter lvl 18
    I think that this is FINALLY Valve listening to us guys.
    The new changes had been proposed here back in the days when we were discussing on how improve the workshop (and i remember myself and others saying that a Greenlight system would have helped with visibility).
    So here you go, now tons and tons of items that were invisible in page 2,3,4....N, are now all randomly put under your eyes.
    I think this is just a very big step towards a more equal workshop.
    Also, votes won't be driven anymore by masses of people voting the first 3 items, so the % of positive votes is gonna be way more variable, like some of you are experimenting... i just hope that with this new system, some shady people won't find new exploits to boost votes in change of a portion of item shared %.

    P.S. Anyway on my side i fell pretty happy of the change! I think it's a good one...
  • agito666
    i d hope i will get more votes for tiny banana.... oh wait...
  • Vayne4800
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    Vayne4800 polycounter lvl 3
    motenai wrote: »
    a very big step towards a more equal workshop

    Big giant NOPE! Nothing is equal about it. Elite or bust!
  • ChiZ
    I don't know that it's Valve listening to us so much as it is Valve applying their storefront functionality to the workshop, but there are some good changes in there, and I'm certainly not complaining about that.

    Unless they implement the queue into the client as a "waiting for your match activity" I don't see it holding people's attention for long, though. There's definitely a dedicated workshop visitor crowd, but for most, sitting through a queue of stuff and voting is a once or twice kind of thing... and if it's supposed to be the equalizing factor, I think it needs to be more appealing.

    Overall, though, I'm really positive about the change. It's a facelift, and some added functionality (especially that voting on all items from collection deal), and that's always welcome!
  • Ziedrich
    Vayne4800 wrote: »
    Big giant NOPE! Nothing is equal about it. Elite or bust!

    I have to agree. I think a lot of the complaining about the structure of the workshop has resulted in Valve making changes that are a solid step backward. Having the most popular list refresh daily means that the items that have an outside source of views, be it from team/player advertising, and other 3rd party vote generation/advertisers, benefit the most. The old system had things up for a week, and while not perfect, allowed good items to climb up, and gain visibility through high positive %. As it is now, this can't happen.

    The queue system, while good in theory, is far too broad in it's current implementation. Half of the items in my queue were from 2012. If you look at the 2nd page of the workshop, at this very moment, a number of the items were submitted more than a month ago.

    We submitted a courier a couple days ago, so it had enough time garner some votes, and climb it's way up, prior to the change. Within a day, it had several hundred votes, 5 stars, and a 96% upvote rate. Based off of past experience, it most likely would have sat in the middle of the front page for a few days, before slowly dropping down, and ultimately dropping off completely after a week. In the new system, that influx of votes matters for a day, and then all that visibility is lost. At that point, you advertise to get more eyes on it, or you're at the whim of the queue. When at the mercy of the queue, you get rated by people who are fed your item in a list, instead of those who would selectively click on it because they wanted to vote on it, which seems to result in a large decline in positive vote %. That part is fine, and just something that the workshop will end up adjusting to as the mean % for accepted items gets readjusted.

    Again, I am sure all this stuff will get tweaked in time, and it's a new system, so it can't be expected to work perfectly. However, on the surface, it seems like it's more beneficial than ever to have a partner who trumpets your work.
  • danpaz3d
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    danpaz3d polycounter lvl 7
    I think it's a great update. It'll be kind of interesting to see how they now handle the rating/vote system and how that applies to whether it gets accepted or not. I know I've still got a way to go before the quality of my work is up to standards, but I think this new update will let me know easier, when I get it right, or when I get it wrong. No matter what, more unbiased votes = better.
  • mrpresident
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    mrpresident polycounter lvl 10
    I think the queue system will be great IF it's implemented directly into the game client (hopefully in the patch next week), so that players are encouraged to scroll through and vote on content while they're waiting for matchmaking to find them a game.

    As it currently stands though, very few people are going to make an effort to go to the workshop and then click through thousands of items. A system like this only works if every item gets enough views to have a large enough "sample size" to effectively determine popularity. If the number of people visiting the workshop is the same as before this system will be significantly worse.
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    interested to see how stuff sorts out.

    Hard to find where your items sit though, would be nice to be able to jump to the current position. With 300 + pages for TF2 it can take awhile to find your stuff.

    Searching pretty deep though I did come across some of my old items that got bumped fairly high for 'today'. But also going through pages I'd see something on page 50 and by the time I got to page 75 I'd see it again. So obviously things are moving around quickly.

    I wish we still had more choice for filter. 'Most popular today' and 'newest' might be good for browsing, but for artists would be nice to see how your item is doing over 3 months like before. This also goes back to being able to jump to item position.

    It does seem to be bringing out mo9re negative votes. An item or two I had 90+ % on are now quite a bit lower.

    It might help filter out bad stuff too. I looked at pages 300+ and most of that stuff was very low quality.
  • SeeingTriangles
    The change brought more viewers and votes, that's really a good thing. However I don't know how to feel about seeing items in the past months (or even in 2013) showing up on the Most popular(today) pages. The thought of having past items to be included there makes me happy since old items can get more viewers too, but the thing that worries me is that all of the items that showed up there are items that were very popular in the past (for example DotaFX's Juggernaut set), items that were less popular than those don't seem to show up in the most popular (today) pages at all. I think the problem comes from the voting queue prioritizes popular items rather than newer items, but that's just my speculation.
    The thing I really want is the ability to vote for items in-game, and a separate tab for pro players and tournaments items.
  • mihalceanu
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    mihalceanu polycounter lvl 6
    I like the new update , the set voting feature is awesome . I'm sure they will tweak some stufs around after some info are gathered.
    I kinda like the randomness of items that you get on queue , u can have a item that u never seen before:)

    On an unrelated note , just finished a single item (weap for axe) ; drop a like plox
    171F535AF148D13D5D6F7EEE4B99FD5555A9F6A4
    workshop link:
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=342589404
  • Konras
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    Konras polycounter lvl 12
    It seems that at the bottom of dota store (http://www.dota2.com/store) as well as on dota steam library page 3 items shown there are based on most popularity from last week list despite there is no direct access to such page from workshop itself (only recent and most popular today are available now).

    As only those items are gathering massive votes I hope we will have them adapted to new system soon :)

    Apart from this I am really curious to see how new workshop will work out in practice :)
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    I'd like to know how the cue works.

    So far I have had almost all of the tiny 'lava' set come up in cue and all of the timber beaver set come up in cue. Then everything else is random? Why those sets come up like that I have no idea.
  • Toasty
    I would be interesting to see how the queue works. So far none of my items seem to of appeared in the queue for people.

    I suspect that the changes will increase the distance of those with a fan base and able to advertise beyond workshop, and the new workshop artist now relying on getting into a random queue. New workshop artists used to be able stand out atleast for a week if they got a first day snowball to get onto the front page for a week.

    I feel it's going to be very hit or miss. Make a nice set and get into the queue and you should do well with votes. However make a nice set and miss the queue, and your votes will remain low.

    External advertising will be more important then ever to bypass the random queue and sending people directly to your items.

    -Toasty
  • hopgood
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    hopgood polycounter lvl 12
    Baddcog wrote: »
    I'd like to know how the cue works.

    So far I have had almost all of the tiny 'lava' set come up in cue and all of the timber beaver set come up in cue. Then everything else is random? Why those sets come up like that I have no idea.

    When you create a collection of your items there is a new option to specify it as a set rather than just a collection. Doing so will cause the queue to say, do you want to see this se of items in game? Iif its just tagged as a normal collection the queue seems to throw up every item from ir rather than just once.
  • belkun
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    belkun polycounter lvl 7
    I already posted it on our thread, but I guess I should post it here too!

    We just submitted a Mirana set we did in collaboration with team Fnatic: Selemene's Champion! Click the image to check it out on the workshop!

    PfajF1y.jpg

    There are some extra images of the progress on our thread right here if anyone is interested.
  • EduardoMC
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    EduardoMC polycounter lvl 5
    Can someone explain the workshop a bit more clearly? I may be understanding things wrong but it seems like it will be hell for new artists trying to get into the workshop. Am I wrong?
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    yeah pretty much.

    You need :

    Awesome concept.
    Great modelling and texturing.
    Promo art that makes it look like it will never look in game.
    Advertising to draw people to it.
    Tons of luck.

    And you're competing against items made for tourneys and artists who have stuff in that always seem to get more stuff in on every update (less room for new artists).

    And Valve is always wishy washy on what they want or will accept, so you spend all your time working by the rules and then they break them.
  • Nikey
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    Nikey polycounter lvl 10
    Hey guys, me and ikeike just finished out set for Terrorblade!
    Your votes are welcome ;)

    C150CD4A0FB0257FA557762921B8555C881E4A9E


    (clickable image)
  • teh_shrike
    well, not much to say, still like it how it turn to be
    C84BC9A1E3B737A2FFA77027ADEC54C1D661D244
    clickable^^^
  • EduardoMC
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    EduardoMC polycounter lvl 5
    Hmm... so someone help me understand this. Under the new vote queue system it means that now we will not only compete with sets that are relatively new, but now we will compete with retroactive, much older sets since those can come up on people's vote queue? Like a set that was added to the workshop a year ago but now people can re-vote on it?

    Again... maybe I am understanding this wrong, I wish there was some kind of more detailed explanation on the subject.
  • mihalceanu
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    mihalceanu polycounter lvl 6
    EduardoMC : Preety much yep , there is no more 1 week thing that get snowballed into 5 stars . My last item has around 50%-50% positive-negative ratings , wich is preety crazy :) . I kinda like this sistem tho
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    hopgood wrote: »
    When you create a collection of your items there is a new option to specify it as a set rather than just a collection. Doing so will cause the queue to say, do you want to see this se of items in game? Iif its just tagged as a normal collection the queue seems to throw up every item from ir rather than just once.

    Yeah, I've seen the set thing and that's cool. Still they didn't solve the problem of sets clogging up the 'new page'. It might clean up the cue a bit though.

    But what I mean is it gives me 12 random items to vote on. Yet 4 of those belong to the same set (whether or not tagged as set I don't know).

    But if there are 10,000 items on the workshop and 12 are chosen to vote on, why are 4 of them all from the same set /author.
    And it happens frequently. So it's not a very good random IMO.

    I've also noticed on TF2: There is a 'xmas wish thought bubble'. It's a nine piece set (all class). Those all came up within a few cues. Also a set of medals for a tourney. They all got tons of votes so everyone has been seeing those items and they dominated the favorite for the day for several days.


    That's pretty bad out of all the items to have several cues in a row clogged by tournament medals and one xmas item from last year.

    Some of my old items have had 1 new visitor. So why is everyone getting the xmas wish bubble cued but some items aren't cued at all (so far anyway)


    It is helping SOME older items get more votes which is good, but it's also obviously spamming the same items for everyone all at once.
    EduardoMC wrote: »
    Hmm... so someone help me understand this. Under the new vote queue system it means that now we will not only compete with sets that are relatively new, but now we will compete with retroactive, much older sets since those can come up on people's vote queue? Like a set that was added to the workshop a year ago but now people can re-vote on it?

    Again... maybe I am understanding this wrong, I wish there was some kind of more detailed explanation on the subject.


    You were always competing against everything on the workshop. It just means that now people will start to vote more on older stuff too. Hopefully it gives all items a better chance.
    Before your item had to be the popular thing for the week or it sank into oblivion forever.
    Now people will start to see it all the time (presumably) so if it's good it has a better chance of rising to the top.

    This SHOULD help filter out bad stuff and keep good stuff over time. Though with my TF2 example above there are some obvious issues.
  • hopgood
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    hopgood polycounter lvl 12
    Baddcog wrote: »

    But what I mean is it gives me 12 random items to vote on. Yet 4 of those belong to the same set (whether or not tagged as set I don't know).

    But if there are 10,000 items on the workshop and 12 are chosen to vote on, why are 4 of them all from the same set /author.
    And it happens frequently. So it's not a very good random IMO.

    Yeah unfortunately I don't believe the change is retroactive. Meaning contributors will have to go back through all their collections and change them from "Items that work together" to "Items that are a set". There's still a fair amount of streamlining to be done here it seems.

    The change to acknowledging sets is a step forward and hopefully these changes will radiate to the "Most popular (Today)" screen as currently its populated by 3 sets despite being 30 icons.
  • BluPanda
    hey guys, started working on an ogre magi set, any-one know if he is being re-worked or anything like that? I notice he has very few sets... usually a sign of something afoot..
  • Toasty
    Been spending a few days updating Pudge Warpath with a new hook, and less violent left arm and belt.


    3iuL1t.jpg
    Clickable^^


    I feel I'm struggling to advertise my new sets. Reddit, twitter and facebook are resulting in minimal interest. Which is understandable, as I'm a new workshop artist without a set in game yet ( need fans to gain new fans ). What are people strategy's/tips to advertise their sets and gather a fan base?
  • EduardoMC
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    EduardoMC polycounter lvl 5
    That's a pretty cool set Toasty, it reminds me of LOTR somehow. :) By the way, I would link to the STEAM page instead (for votes, views, and so on).

    *Nevermind I just saw it is a change for a set you already have on the workshop?
  • bounchfx
    moved this comment over to the 'your thoughts' thread due to relevancy.
  • quockhanhlk
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    quockhanhlk polycounter lvl 11
    Cross post from my thread, we (Godzy, Horse and i) finished this set a few days ago, please check it out and consider giving us a vote if you like it. thank you :D

    729tMAI.jpg
  • AndrewHelenek
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    AndrewHelenek polycounter lvl 6
  • Waddell
    Hey guys I've got a question: Is there any way to append facial animation to a head remodel? I've noticed some other sets lack the portrait animations due to replacing the head model.

    Edit: Figured I'd throw down some in-game previews of my Tiny set. He's just got a first coat of paint at the moment, more texturing to come.
    10807082_10152389506592540_317799442_n.jpg?oh=3d95ed6f59c5e156614d646a257e711c&oe=546F1A53&__gda__=1416506242_fe5f1a6cf18397e1c7e2a3b47e03c975
  • hopgood
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    hopgood polycounter lvl 12
    preorder now!

    I for one look forward to pre-ordering my next Arcana through Gamestop for those sweet release day particle effects
  • Vayne4800
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    Vayne4800 polycounter lvl 3
    preorder now!

    Done! Also, I guess November will only see one chest. Boohoo. Next month chest is only DC chest, Boohoo more!
  • bounchfx
    yeah I don't think it would be so frustrating if it was org chest + normal chest, but if it's only this one, then dang. Hopefully we'll see a long long string of artists chests (and singles!?) after :D
  • phobalien
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    phobalien polycounter lvl 6
    Hi guys, this is my first post in the Dota section of Polycount and my latest post in a while!

    I'm sharing the first set I'm doing with my friend motenai on the Life stealer hero.
    I took care of general concept design and the high poly.
    What you see here is the final version after some tweaks agreed with my partner!

    I hope you enjoy the view... next post will be motenai with the lowpoly and bake :).

    zM9tB7f.jpg?1
  • motenai
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    motenai polycounter lvl 18
    aaaaaaaaaand here the lowpoly + bakes... now time to move on skinning lods and textures

    7vW6zYX.jpg
  • ChiZ
    Vayne4800 wrote: »
    Done! Also, I guess November will only see one chest. Boohoo. Next month chest is only DC chest, Boohoo more!
    Considering what I have some knowledge about for the future (not courtesy of Oracle!) I wouldn't hold my breath. :/

    Tournament chests are quickly becoming the norm, and Valve needs to step up the frequency of artist chests by a lot to compete with that rise. That, or become much more strict on who gets to push tournament chests, and then favoritism becomes a whole bigger thing than it already is.

    It's an uncomfortable journey ahead for workshoppers if Valve doesn't start making some really tough choices. :(

    edit: Really sorry for sounding so negative lately. Must be the November depression nipping at my heels...

    btw: I really love that Lifestealer. Unsettling and really cool design. Hopefully it'll pass the Chinalawz/Low Violence test, because I feel like we need more stuff like this.
  • Malloy
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    Malloy polycounter lvl 6
  • Shock
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    Shock polycounter lvl 5
    for china u can make a second version and simply put a sweet pandabear teddy inside in that mouth on the back. im sure it will work.
  • ChiZ
    Shock wrote: »
    for china u can make a second version and simply put a sweet pandabear teddy inside in that mouth on the back. im sure it will work.
    Or put a green/blue color overlay all over him and make him wear a burlap sack. :(
  • Vayne4800
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    Vayne4800 polycounter lvl 3
    ChiZ wrote: »
    Considering what I have some knowledge about for the future (not courtesy of Oracle!) I wouldn't hold my breath. :/

    Tournament chests are quickly becoming the norm, and Valve needs to step up the frequency of artist chests by a lot to compete with that rise. That, or become much more strict on who gets to push tournament chests, and then favoritism becomes a whole bigger thing than it already is.

    It's an uncomfortable journey ahead for workshoppers if Valve doesn't start making some really tough choices. :(

    That is why I have dropped all my projects and leaving the workshop for good after I wrap up my last two projects. Waste of time for me. Was fun while it lasted. Even the artists have closed up to themselves and everyone is so secretive compared to the early days. You suddenly happen upon a finished product my some team. I know a lot of people who got stuff in might disagree with me, but there is that negative vibe going around and it might be only me, either way, it is pushing me to move on.
  • Vovosunt
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    Vovosunt polycounter lvl 4
    Hi guys! I would love to get some crits on this (partially inspired by Anuxi's mirana set):

    9e9d50745d.jpg
    12901807e0.jpg
    7e09be1941.jpg
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Vovo - absolutely loving the idea ! It's clever, and it looks badass. Well done :)
  • GhostDetector
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    GhostDetector polycounter lvl 10
    @Vovosunt
    I think it looks pretty good, but I don't really like that nose ring on the mount.
  • Robbiek1000
    WK_Vamp_advert_zpsd4be3fe5.jpg

    Just finished my first Dota set in a long while. If you like it please vote to support it.

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=344216235
  • K-PAX
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    K-PAX polycounter lvl 7
    well done Vovosunt ! I love all of them~
  • Andyk125
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    Andyk125 polycounter lvl 4
    Vayne4800 wrote: »
    That is why I have dropped all my projects and leaving the workshop for good after I wrap up my last two projects. Waste of time for me. Was fun while it lasted. Even the artists have closed up to themselves and everyone is so secretive compared to the early days. You suddenly happen upon a finished product my some team. I know a lot of people who got stuff in might disagree with me, but there is that negative vibe going around and it might be only me, either way, it is pushing me to move on.

    Well not to make things more depressing, but I think a lot of ppl have or had this feeling.

    I will try and finish one set and see how that goes with the new workshop. These days u need a 10 men crew to deliver anything near the queality and time sheme that workshop sets are being produced. I always come back at making items, because I really like to play the game and I like making items. But it gets more and more time consuming and the fun about making a nice and simple item is getting les attractive.

    As long as companies and ppl make a lot of money Valve probably won't change a thing, and well that's what it is all about. I mean this whole world is money $$$ driven, you just can't change that.

    Maybe we need to boycot the company and tournament chests so things will be less interesting for Valve and those companies to participate :p And take over the workshop again, and rule the world!:)

    @Vovo: Awesome mount, would love to sea something like that in the game!
  • AndrewHelenek
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    AndrewHelenek polycounter lvl 6
    Andyk125 wrote: »
    Maybe we need to boycot the company and tournament chests so things will be less interesting for Valve and those companies to participate :p And take over the workshop again, and rule the world!:)

    It's just a matter of time if leagues continue to offer less and less percent :thumbup:
  • Vayne4800
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    Vayne4800 polycounter lvl 3
    It's just a matter of time if leagues continue to offer less and less percent :thumbup:

    Maybe we will start playing DotaCinema 2 instead of just DotA2! Considering Nov and Dec cosmetics direction.
  • Shock
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    Shock polycounter lvl 5
    PolycountCinema needed.
  • Waddell
    It seems strange to me that they wouldn't endorse Polycount as an 'organisation' of some sort, since it's basically a collection of artists churning out high quality content. From the outset, it definitely seems like the easiest way to get something into the game is to do all the work, put someone else's name on it and split the profits with them. I guess the logic is 'some money is better than no money'.
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