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TF2 - Polypack - Coolbot4k

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Coolbot4k
polycounter lvl 10
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Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
I was, unfortunately, unable to complete my project for the competition. I would, however, like to thank VALVe for initiating this contest. I would also like to thank the fantastic Polycount Community. Because of their help with this project, I've gained valuable knowledge and experience I can use in the future!

Replies

  • youngoli
    From what you've shown so far, it could definitely work. Only advice I can think to offer is to make sure it doesn't look to similar to a current spy weapon, especially The Big Kill (granted that's more of a western style revolver, but still). As for the silhouettes, I like number 2 more. It has more of a classic feel.
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    I did a bit of modeling. I'm at about 800 triangles. Tell me what you guys think!

    revolver_concept_03.jpg

    revolver_concept_02.jpg

    What do I need to improve on?
  • willy-wilson
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    willy-wilson polycounter lvl 8
    weapons can go to 8,000 tris, only hats are limited to 800. i say flesh this thing out some more
  • Swizzle
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    Swizzle polycounter lvl 15
    I think you need to step back and ask yourself some specific questions:

    1. How does this gun work?
    Is it a revolver or an automatic, how do you load it, how does the hammer move, etc.

    2. How are you supposed to hold it?
    Does the grip look comfortable, is the trigger in the right place, can it be held normally, etc.

    3. What does it do?
    Does the gun have some sort of special property or ability that makes it different than the other weapons the spy has, and if so, how do you show that?

    Finally, and hopefully most obvious:

    4. Does it look like it could really be a gun?
    Does it follow conventions set by other guns of its type in the way it's designed and manufactured?


    To be frank with you, I think you should go back to your design sketches. The model is weak because the concepts you've drawn up look thrown together.

    It looks as if you've tried to combine an automatic with a revolver, but it's not working. Consider how guns are made and why they look the way they do. Revolvers tend to have far more ergonomic handles because the handle is just that - a handle. Automatics, on the other hand, have boxier handles because they usually carry a magazine and thus the handle has to conform to the shape of that magazine.

    Take a hard look at what you're doing, come up with some good sketches and then refine the design until you're happy with it and it looks like it could work. Good luck!
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    I'll see what I can do with more polys willy.

    Thanks for the great advice Swizzle!

    I've modeled things before, but I've never planned them. I'm extremely new to the whole modeling scene and don't really know the workflow at all. I'll use what you said as a rough guideline for designing and planning.
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    Swizzle, I took your advice and the results were great!

    I decided to stay with a revolver in order to stay parallel with his current weapons. I tried to keep the long barrel and a square-ish and compact design.

    revolver_concept_05.jpg
    revolver_concept_04.jpg

    Heres a comparison between my revolver and the in-game one:

    revolver_concept_06.jpg

    Any suggestions on anything to change?
  • Fragus
    Looks like the tranquilizer. You need a lot of optimizing.
  • fearian
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    fearian greentooth
    Looks good! It has a nice shape to it, I think. maybe a thicker hammer though.

    I agree with fragus that you could cut down on polys alot. In game, players wont be able to tell the difference between that barrel and one with a fraction of the edges.
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks for the comments guys.

    I went and touched up the barrel a bit, and edited the hammer. It went from 1256 faces to 919.

    revolver_concept_08.jpg
  • Buck
    Quite like the way it looks so far :)
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks Buck!

    Well I tried my hand at texturing, and this is what the results were.

    revolver_concept_10.jpg

    Heres another comparison with the revolver:
    revolver_concept_09.jpg

    I was having difficulty compiling due to the barrel not being in the same position as the other guns, but I solved the problem. However, there is still a slight clipping problem that I need to address because of this.
    I'll probably touch up the barrel, handle, and silver area a bit due to them not looking too great.
  • Karkasmolenklok
    It seems like it should be smaller. The revolver isn't a small gun to begin with (and the ambassador, for a revolver, is frankly gigantic.) It seems big and cumbersome in his hand (look how long the grip protrudes beneath the hand)
  • Ikimono
    weapons can go to 8,000 tris, only hats are limited to 800. i say flesh this thing out some more

    have you looked at the polycount for the actual weapons in game? Almost all of them are less than 3000 at their highest resolution.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    There's something funky about your textures. Let me see your UV map and diffuse.
    By the way, there's a lot of topology you could clean up.
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks for the comments everyone.

    Karkasmolenklok, it does indeed look better smaller:

    revolver_concept_13.jpg

    Ikimono, an odd thing I discovered was that the Ambassador has 9400+ triangles and no LOD's. It's pretty strange.

    Shad0wForce, heres my UV map and texture:
    revolver_concept_11.jpg
    revolver_concept_12.jpg

    With this being my first UV map, I'm certain that there are errors. Are there any guidelines/rules/practices I broke with my mapping or texturing?

    Also, I'm entirely sure what topology is. Is there any tutorial I can look up on the topic?
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Revolvercrit.jpg
    For your UV map, you should maximize as much UV space as possible; reduce the amount of gaps in between each piece. The more maximized your UV map is, the better the texture will turn out.

    After you redo your UV map, make your diffuse map and actually take some time and effort to make your diffuse look good (and TF2-ish)

    Modeling takes a lot of time and practice just to get the basics down. But hey, you learn by making mistakes.
  • Fragus
    Coolbot4k wrote: »
    Thanks for the comments everyone.

    Karkasmolenklok, it does indeed look better smaller:

    revolver_concept_13.jpg

    Ikimono, an odd thing I discovered was that the Ambassador has 9400+ triangles and no LOD's. It's pretty strange.

    Shad0wForce, heres my UV map and texture:
    revolver_concept_11.jpg
    revolver_concept_12.jpg

    With this being my first UV map, I'm certain that there are errors. Are there any guidelines/rules/practices I broke with my mapping or texturing?

    Also, I'm entirely sure what topology is. Is there any tutorial I can look up on the topic?
    Make the texture not so muddy! As you can see the detail only distorts the image! Make it simple, with large brush strokes!
  • Karkasmolenklok
    Would it be possible to see what this would look like with just flat colors?
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks so much for the comments again everyone, they really help.

    I redid the texture and uv map, aswell as optimizing the mesh a bit. It now has 419 polys and 800 triangles. Here are the results:

    revolver_concept_16.jpg

    revolver_concept_14.jpg

    revolver_concept_15.jpg

    revolver_concept_017.jpg
  • Ikimono
    This all looks exactly like the declined alpha model for what is now the spy's revolver. Perhaps a brief delve into the GCF is in order for you (or just youtube it). I would hate for you to waste your time making something that valve already has made and didn't use.
  • EvilShadow777
    The texturing is turning out ok, but you really should work on the model itself. It's rather bland, it has an obvious silhouette and all but all of TF2's weapons have something that jumps out at you. Take for example the Ambassador's size and shape and Natascha's chainbelts and such. If you could add something of interest to it or make it obviously diverse it'd be great. Just don't go overboard.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Your geometry looks MUCH better now.
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks again for the comments guys. I added a bit more detail, but as Evilshadow777 said, it does look rather bland. I'm not entirely sure what I could add to the gun.

    revolver_concept_18.jpg

    I was actually thinking of switching my class and theme completely. I came up with some rather simple concepts for the pyro, the theme being "The Original Fire Wielder".

    Here are the rough concepts:

    pyrohatconcept.jpg

    (I've made and submitted this hat before, albiet unoptimized and slightly different. I've lost the files due to a reformat, so I hope it would still be okay to redo it.)

    Flower Flare gun:
    flaregunconcept.jpg

    Pipe Flamethrower:
    flamethrowerconcept.jpg

    Anyone think I should follow through with this idea, or continue with the spy?
  • Khthon
    So what do you mean by Original Fire Wielder? Really basic/thrown together stuff?

    If so you have a lot of options for melee that could be better than that hat.
  • RoronoaDSanji
    i think i like the pyro better (especially the flower gun, i really LOVE it)
    cuz the spy's revolver is not THAT interesting to me
    but i dont get ur pyro theme, what does flower have to do with fire?
    (and theres already someone working on a garden theme, just a note)
  • Rogue Trooper
    Are you doing a Mario theme?
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    If no one understood the theme: Here you go

    I think I'll begin fleshing out the concepts.
  • RoronoaDSanji
    oh! white mario that throw fire ball!
    make sure is not exactly the same, cuz those copy right stuff doesnt make sense , not to me at lease, even if it is community stuff, is still responsible to valve, and blah blah blah(assuming you dont know much about them)
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    oh! white mario that throw fire ball!
    make sure is not exactly the same, cuz those copy right stuff doesnt make sense , not to me at lease, even if it is community stuff, is still responsible to valve, and blah blah blah(assuming you dont know much about them)
    I'm doing my best to give that inspired by feel, but not so much a blatant ripoff. (hat excluded)

    I'm nearly finished with the flaregun model, heres some WIP renders:
    pic.jpg
    pic2.jpg

    I'm not too sure how I shall color it yet.
  • Khthon
    Team colored with white polka dots (can actually be pale off-white screw heads)?
    247484506_7e6f427856.jpg
  • Ikimono
    A mario theme for the pyro?
    ._.
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    Hey everyone,

    Since my last post, I've worked a bit on the weapons for the Pyro I've showed, but I really wasn't too happy with them at all. I took a step back to the drawing board and see if I should perhaps switch classes again. I came up with a new theme and idea that I liked. (for the spy again, actually) However, before I switch an important part of this project all willy nilly, I decided to try once more with this Pyro theme and find out what you guys would like me to do. :)

    Like I said I wasn't too happy with how the flare gun came out. In game it looked very unappealing, and some what ugly:

    flare_ingame01.jpg
    flare_old01.jpg

    I took your advice Khthon, and the gun turned out quite a bit better:
    flare_new01.jpg

    (However, I had to take a major step back with the process. This one isn't UV wrapped yet)

    As for my other idea, I thought that this character would be useful to get ideas from based on the Spy's bio:
    Zorro.jpg

    I did some very simple "paint-overs" and got this:
    spy_hat.jpg

    So, do you guys think I should stay with the Pyro, or go with my new idea?
  • Psyke
  • Khthon
    If you went Zorro you'd need custom animations for a sabre sword.
  • Pogo
    Though that zorro mask looks pretty cool.
  • REKLAS
    I vote for the Zorro idea, it's great! ...though the brim of his hat should be larger.
  • komfyrion
    Khthon wrote: »
    If you went Zorro you'd need custom animations for a sabre sword.
    Well, it would look weird with normal melee attack and with the backstab, but imagine the taunt! That would be so awesome!
    But again it would prove difficult.
    I think you should stay pyro.
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks for the comments everyone!

    I've made my decision. I'm going to try out the Zorro idea, but, if I don't see much significant progress over the next few days, I may switch back to Pyro.

    As for the problem with the sword, I've come up with a design that I think would work with the current butterfly knife animations. Here's what I've done:
    fencingknife_01.jpg

    fencingknife_02.jpg

    I've tried to get it into a view model to see if it works, but it's been proving rather difficult. Due to the Spy not having a "universal" view model with his knife, I can't just put it in there and see it work. I've tried compiling a view model, but I my model is completely invisible in the model viewer and in game. I can't determine what it is. I believe it may be the exporter (3ds max) because I've imported and exported the original knife view model and it had the same problem. Is anyone here knowledgable in the view model field?

    Another thing I wanted to ask was about the hat, mask, and facial hair. I was wondering how I should combine them. Should the hat be by itself, and have the mask and facial hair as a misc together? Or should the hat and mask be one, and make an exaggerated facial hair misc item?

    spy_hats01.jpg

    I think I'm leaning towards:

    Hat Slot: Hat
    Misc Slot: Mask/Stache+Goatee
  • Khthon
    All of it should be one hat. Hat + Mask+ Stache + Goatee.

    I like the comedic effect of the tiny, tiny fencing sword/knife, too. Really creative way to solve the issue. You might get away with making the blade a teensy bit longer, but I don't know for sure.
  • jgoodroad
    if it is all one thing, there is still the problem of the misc "camera beard"
  • Khthon
    Camera beard covers the lower face so you couldn't see the mouth or 'stache or goatee anyways.
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    Hey guys,

    I've been somewhat busy the past few of days, so I haven't been able to work too much on this project. Here and there I've been working on the hat and mask. Here's what I have so far:

    hatnmask.jpg

    To me, something seems off about the hat. Any comments?
  • Khthon
    looks really cool, I'd wear that hat once it's finished
  • Luxy
    I like the first one, but make the hats brim MUCH smaller.
  • Coolbot4k
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    Coolbot4k polycounter lvl 10
    I've been painstakingly fine-tuning the mask to reduce clipping problems with other hats. I just have to fix a bit of geometry in the front of the mask so clipping with facial animations doesn't occur, add some jigglebones, and some other little things. I rather love the mask with the powdered wig. Heres my progress:

    bandanahatmontage.jpg
  • TheDjinn
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    TheDjinn polycounter lvl 7
    The standard Zorro hat has a slightly shorter top section than the one you've made, which makes it look out of place, and may be what you're uncomfortable with about it. Additionally, it sits lower on the head...probably level with the Spy's brow, rather than halfway up his forehead.

    Finally, if that still looks out of place, you might want to consider adding a few little organic touches such as a slight indent in the top of a slightly curved brim, to convey the fact that it's a hat, rather than a solid object made of unyielding material.

    Just thoughts.
  • Al Capwn
    That looks awesome! Nice!

    The powdered wig doesn't really appeal to me, but you should do the hat and mask as a hat item, and a stache + goatee as a misc so camera beard wont be equipped.

    As for the rest, the sword looks pretty neat with it's length and how short it is XP
  • Steve Schulze
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    Steve Schulze polycounter lvl 18
    Madre de Dios! That's brilliant. Maybe just a couple more edges in the eyeholes.

    How's it go coupled with the disguise mask?
  • REKLAS
    Sweet. Yay you went with the zorro idea.

    The hat should be lower though, it looks like it's too small for him and it doesn't fit properly on his head. It looks more like it's sitting on top of his head then it looks like he's wearing it.
  • Xeramon
    Coolbot4k wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    I've been somewhat busy the past few of days, so I haven't been able to work too much on this project. Here and there I've been working on the hat and mask. Here's what I have so far:

    hatnmask.jpg

    To me, something seems off about the hat. Any comments?

    I love the first skin :nerd::thumbup:
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