Played HoN when was free, now i can;t play because their system is so bad for some countries. LoL, it is worth to try this game? Btw i am waiting DOTA 2 do come out, HoN will be free then.
The more i play LoL games the more i fucking loath and despise the people who make it, they really just dont get it.
Also fuck knows why a game with a constantly changing playingfield is an esport, its a bit like adding in new classes to WoW - and anyone who played Arena in season 5 when they added Deathknights knows how much that can fuck shit up.
I think my biggest gripe overall though is how little it gives people the opportunity to be "good" - the game to me is more about not making dumb mistakes as youre so limited by what your character can do. The thing is, while limiting players from doing good things it allows for the exact opposite and it has even more influence on the game than it should;
- late game, youve got someone who wont come back and defend / over extends when youre being offensive, he dies and makes it 4 v 5... 4 people suffer because of one persons mistake
- people feeding or being marginally silly in the early game can have an insane snowball effect and cause the game to be over prior to 20mins (and while i realise that this is giving someone on the other team a chance to shine, its because of a dumb mistake, not because of them outclassing or outplaying for the most part)
- Game im in while writing this... theyre getting baron, our main tank goes afk and has to reboot as theyre getting baron at the 51 minute mark... we cant outaim them or outmaneuver as no matter what we are a man down and they will win in a 4 v 5 situation.
In short, losing because someone else is a fucking retard isn't fun but i guess it makes for a good casual free game until you realize how dumb shit can be
I should take this to the LoL boards with every other whining prick, but whatever.
Well, it's a team game and the MOBA model is designet to punish people who can't play as a team.. I usually play with 3 mates or more so we have atleast a tiny bit co-ordination.
TF2 is a brilliant team game but it still allows for snipers to headshot and people to have an outstanding aim - in the original, TFC you had to call all incoming attackers on defence while playing in your map position and doing a good job - but you could also be shit hot and kill a lot of them. Again in TFC, on offence you had to communicate where the flag was and work together to get sentry guns down BUT you could have someone playing scout who - if good - could homerun or pull off some amazing shit.
Its these elements that i feel is missing and made worse by the fact that having a weak link is 10x harder to make up for than it should be... because you cant excel yourself. The only option is trying to nerd herd with a weak linked team and aim to counterpick on the Draft screen.
The metagame shifts in starcraft1 even now, top US pros were recently commenting on how surprising it was that in the year since SC2 the tactics and things are still developing for the original. Listen to some of the State of the Game podcasts as they have some enlightening things to say regarding tactics and how people suddenly working something out totally changed the game up and this is 4-8 years into the game.
What constitutes skill to you if it isnt the accurate execution that comes from having a lot of knowledge? Ever dueled at a high level in quake3? theyre constantly tracking the timers of the key pickups and thinking about where the opponent will be, that in itself is mentally draining and then ontop of that they have to be incredibly accurate.
My beef with bad players being bad isnt that in itself at all - ive had bad teammates in TFC but the game worked in such a way that if i was good... i could make up for the slack. I initially had these kind of complaints with TF2 but I think that does a good job of hitting some kind of middle ground. While pyros can still w + m1 you can get really fast and accurate scouts or smart demoman that are total assets and they can rise above.
It comes down to the little things though -
Blizzard designed banelings to be a really strong unit vs marines and then you get people who Micro insanely well and go against that. After saying that i want to say "i think games would be fucking boring if you were limited exclusively to those roles", but i've not thought that through enough yet.
Games / Sports etc arent tests though so thats where the skill comes in - reacting in real time! Hell, i dont play chess but im sure people will make a mistake in the heat of the moment because they didnt read a move through fully.
In SC2 there was a patch released prior to one of the Major league gaming tournaments - this patch had a rather significant buff to zerg and one of the best US zerg players went on to win the entire thing. Do you think that is fair in this situation? To have this sudden change that caught people by surprise and lose because of a lack of experience and preparation?
Blizzard also recently tweaked the Warp gates for Protoss which annoyed a lot of players as they then have to go on and relearn things and make adjustments to their play. The general consensus from them was that the metagame was changing on its own and while it did require good execution it was slowly making a shift and more options were becoming available.
I think LoL is a great casual game and on its a blast to play with friends as its fun and free, it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Maybe i am, but i'd say riot in the way theyre promoting it as an esport are taking it seriously in this regard.
Also can you honestly tell me you feel zero frustration if you lose a 30min - 1hour game because of a disconnect / leaver or stupid mouthy nonce that is the LoL community? Eitherway i said i think its a great casual game, i just wish they would empower the player more so that people who are good can really shine - this rewards people for putting in the time as opposed to picking the right champion and getting lucky with randoms.
I've got no problems with Starcraft 2, i used it as an example of how adding things/making changes, regardless of whether or not they were needed at the time, can initially fuck shit up at a competitive level.
Maybe i am, but i'd say riot in the way theyre promoting it as an esport are taking it seriously in this regard.
Also can you honestly tell me you feel zero frustration if you lose a 30min - 1hour game because of a disconnect / leaver or stupid mouthy nonce that is the LoL community? Eitherway i said i think its a great casual game, i just wish they would empower the player more so that people who are good can really shine - this rewards people for putting in the time as opposed to picking the right champion and getting lucky with randoms.
I've got no problems with Starcraft 2, i used it as an example of how adding things/making changes, regardless of whether or not they were needed at the time, can initially fuck shit up at a competitive level.
Riot placed in several game modes including Practice, Non-Ranked, and then Ranked matches that allow random group leaders to eliminate limited number of characters, the non ranked mode is randomized only if you enter the fry by yourself. It really is a win-lose situation depending who you're matched up with.
This is the nature of the beast, especially with 5v5 but I don't think it makes it a bad game at all. Really it comes down to patience and eventually you do get matched up with a possible pre-made, if not you should be looking to pre-made opportunities they really change the tide of battle.
And Ive never dealth with a new character that was OP. Honestly, I haven't. Vayne, Brand, that clock chick...never had a problem with them.I think you're venting out of pure rage bro, and LOL is not for the weak hearted
In post #133 i commented on the draft screen and ive played ranked solo to 1420. Ranked solo is a bit of a silly concept for sure as its pretty much luck of the draw, and im well aware of how silly it is to argue about a teamgame when youre tryin to play solo. However, ive also played in 5man premades with people upto 1700 elo and lost because someone kept over extending.
These problems could be solved but ego gets in the way, i think the game is much better when youre working as a team but its not without its flaws by a long shot.
It may look like rage but i generally play games to a high level and i try to think through the problem from a lot of angles - its one of the things i love about starcraft2... i dont get mad as i can look back on my replay and see a whole host of things i could look at and learn from. I'm only mid masters but even at that level i can out play people as my mechanics, macro and overall play can be more consistent.
As for OP champs;
Vlad got nerfed and hes still a strong champ that gets banned in ranked
Sona got hotfixed? on release as she was too strong
Karma also
Rammus was banned EVERY game without fail until he was nerfed, and even now he still gets banned.
but this is besides the point, my argument is that i want to be able to do something to make up for other peoples mistakes - in SC2 i can get placed into Diamond while playing with a 2v2 partner whos ~bronze level, im just that much better than the opposition that i can make up for it. There isnt this difference between 1100-1500 players in LoL - why cant there be?
Replies
Name is MasteroftheFork
As one of the new additions to the HoN art team, this is what I like to hear.
As somebody who doesn't know how to play either goddamn game, this thread and both games stump me.
Also fuck knows why a game with a constantly changing playingfield is an esport, its a bit like adding in new classes to WoW - and anyone who played Arena in season 5 when they added Deathknights knows how much that can fuck shit up.
I think my biggest gripe overall though is how little it gives people the opportunity to be "good" - the game to me is more about not making dumb mistakes as youre so limited by what your character can do. The thing is, while limiting players from doing good things it allows for the exact opposite and it has even more influence on the game than it should;
- late game, youve got someone who wont come back and defend / over extends when youre being offensive, he dies and makes it 4 v 5... 4 people suffer because of one persons mistake
- people feeding or being marginally silly in the early game can have an insane snowball effect and cause the game to be over prior to 20mins (and while i realise that this is giving someone on the other team a chance to shine, its because of a dumb mistake, not because of them outclassing or outplaying for the most part)
- Game im in while writing this... theyre getting baron, our main tank goes afk and has to reboot as theyre getting baron at the 51 minute mark... we cant outaim them or outmaneuver as no matter what we are a man down and they will win in a 4 v 5 situation.
In short, losing because someone else is a fucking retard isn't fun but i guess it makes for a good casual free game until you realize how dumb shit can be
I should take this to the LoL boards with every other whining prick, but whatever.
Its these elements that i feel is missing and made worse by the fact that having a weak link is 10x harder to make up for than it should be... because you cant excel yourself. The only option is trying to nerd herd with a weak linked team and aim to counterpick on the Draft screen.
What constitutes skill to you if it isnt the accurate execution that comes from having a lot of knowledge? Ever dueled at a high level in quake3? theyre constantly tracking the timers of the key pickups and thinking about where the opponent will be, that in itself is mentally draining and then ontop of that they have to be incredibly accurate.
My beef with bad players being bad isnt that in itself at all - ive had bad teammates in TFC but the game worked in such a way that if i was good... i could make up for the slack. I initially had these kind of complaints with TF2 but I think that does a good job of hitting some kind of middle ground. While pyros can still w + m1 you can get really fast and accurate scouts or smart demoman that are total assets and they can rise above.
It comes down to the little things though -
Blizzard designed banelings to be a really strong unit vs marines and then you get people who Micro insanely well and go against that. After saying that i want to say "i think games would be fucking boring if you were limited exclusively to those roles", but i've not thought that through enough yet.
In SC2 there was a patch released prior to one of the Major league gaming tournaments - this patch had a rather significant buff to zerg and one of the best US zerg players went on to win the entire thing. Do you think that is fair in this situation? To have this sudden change that caught people by surprise and lose because of a lack of experience and preparation?
Blizzard also recently tweaked the Warp gates for Protoss which annoyed a lot of players as they then have to go on and relearn things and make adjustments to their play. The general consensus from them was that the metagame was changing on its own and while it did require good execution it was slowly making a shift and more options were becoming available.
I think LoL is a great casual game and on its a blast to play with friends as its fun and free, it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
Prior to the zerg buff zerg were extremly one dimensional and underpowered. The best player generally wins in SC2, it's VERY well balanced.
Also can you honestly tell me you feel zero frustration if you lose a 30min - 1hour game because of a disconnect / leaver or stupid mouthy nonce that is the LoL community? Eitherway i said i think its a great casual game, i just wish they would empower the player more so that people who are good can really shine - this rewards people for putting in the time as opposed to picking the right champion and getting lucky with randoms.
I've got no problems with Starcraft 2, i used it as an example of how adding things/making changes, regardless of whether or not they were needed at the time, can initially fuck shit up at a competitive level.
but my username is makecg if you want to add me.
This is the nature of the beast, especially with 5v5 but I don't think it makes it a bad game at all. Really it comes down to patience and eventually you do get matched up with a possible pre-made, if not you should be looking to pre-made opportunities they really change the tide of battle.
And Ive never dealth with a new character that was OP. Honestly, I haven't. Vayne, Brand, that clock chick...never had a problem with them.I think you're venting out of pure rage bro, and LOL is not for the weak hearted
These problems could be solved but ego gets in the way, i think the game is much better when youre working as a team but its not without its flaws by a long shot.
It may look like rage but i generally play games to a high level and i try to think through the problem from a lot of angles - its one of the things i love about starcraft2... i dont get mad as i can look back on my replay and see a whole host of things i could look at and learn from. I'm only mid masters but even at that level i can out play people as my mechanics, macro and overall play can be more consistent.
As for OP champs;
Vlad got nerfed and hes still a strong champ that gets banned in ranked
Sona got hotfixed? on release as she was too strong
Karma also
Rammus was banned EVERY game without fail until he was nerfed, and even now he still gets banned.
but this is besides the point, my argument is that i want to be able to do something to make up for other peoples mistakes - in SC2 i can get placed into Diamond while playing with a 2v2 partner whos ~bronze level, im just that much better than the opposition that i can make up for it. There isnt this difference between 1100-1500 players in LoL - why cant there be?