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Subst4nce ?

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  • Bal
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    Bal polycounter lvl 17
    New version is looking good, and Steam sale is really nice. Just picked up a license for myself, now I need to convince more guys at work to start using it as well.
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    Jerc wrote: »
    Yes. You can drag and drop any panorama in a package and use it as environment map for the 3d view.

    Phew, finally! So tired of that default terragen background :p

    And regarding baking in Designer: I'm doing it now and have to say it's pretty capable. Better than Max or Xnormal. Some smaller issues here and there but it's super fast and you can do cageless baking just fine (no trace ray splits on hard edges!!!).
    They're not really advertising it that much but it really is an outstanding feature already.
  • fr0gg1e
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    fr0gg1e polycounter lvl 17
    If there is enough interest for it we may be able to create a sub forum in tech talk, I know I have some I could share as well.
    I for one would be really glad if that subforum made it. My urge to use this is huge and I am sure I would have many (probably stupid) questions doing my 1st steps in substance.

    I think I know what the other announcement will be...If that's the sneak peak I saw when you guys visited my last cie... ;)

    Now if only you could support 8k maps, UDIMs /UV Tiles (that would be huge for me) and be on Linux (one can dream)
    Also maybe allowing integration of other shaders / languages...Or maybe go hand in hand with ShaderFX for the DX crowd.
    Just throwing out ideas and stuff.

    Also Can I convert a tangent space to object space? I often doesn't have a low when doing high res stuff...But If I can bake a normal of my high and convert it, that'd be golden (Xnormal is doing it but I'd rather stay in one package and hopefully Substance is able to process high res meshes without much problems?).
  • Jerc
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    Jerc interpolator
    fr0gg1e wrote: »
    I for one would be really glad if that subforum made it. My urge to use this is huge and I am sure I would have many (probably stupid) questions doing my 1st steps in substance.

    I think I know what the other announcement will be...If that's the sneak peak I saw when you guys visited my last cie... ;)

    Now if only you could support 8k maps, UDIMs /UV Tiles (that would be huge for me) and be on Linux (one can dream)
    Also maybe allowing integration of other shaders / languages...Or maybe go hand in hand with ShaderFX for the DX crowd.
    Just throwing out ideas and stuff.

    Also Can I convert a tangent space to object space? I often doesn't have a low when doing high res stuff...But If I can bake a normal of my high and convert it, that'd be golden (Xnormal is doing it but I'd rather stay in one package and hopefully Substance is able to process high res meshes without much problems?).

    We already have a Linux version. It's not public because we havent' had time to put a protection system in there, but it's already fully functional and I believe some people in big CGI studios are using it already.

    As for the 8k and tiles system it's a pretty hard task as the core of substance is really designed to be super fast with resolutions up to 4k but does not scale well higher than that, we would need a lot of groundwork to be redone for that, but it might happen some day :)

    As for the tangent to world, yes you can bake a tangent space and then generate a world space normal map out of it.
  • dzibarik
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    dzibarik polycounter lvl 10
    Why only Steam users get free upgrade?
  • iskandar80
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    iskandar80 polycounter lvl 6
    dzibarik wrote: »
    Why only Steam users get free upgrade?

    Nope, it's not only Steam, we also provide coupon for free upgrade to SD4 for recent buyers from our Website.
  • almighty_gir
  • dzibarik
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    dzibarik polycounter lvl 10
    iskandar80 wrote: »
    Nope, it's not only Steam, we also provide coupon for free upgrade to SD4 for recent buyers from our Website.

    Only recent buyers? I bought it in the spring from your website. I can't find the coupon anywhere.
  • Mongrelman
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    Mongrelman polycounter lvl 18
    Bought, looking forward to playing with this and Marmoset.
  • iskandar80
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    iskandar80 polycounter lvl 6
    dzibarik wrote: »
    Only recent buyers? I bought it in the spring from your website. I can't find the coupon anywhere.

    Please send us a PM on our contact form o that we can handle this.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    Purchased one as well. Now the next question is, does Substance cover what Bitmap2material does as well?
  • dzibarik
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    dzibarik polycounter lvl 10
    iskandar80 wrote: »
    Please send us a PM on our contact form o that we can handle this.

    thanks, I sent an inquiry through this form.
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    Dataday wrote: »
    Purchased one as well. Now the next question is, does Substance cover what Bitmap2material does as well?

    afaik B2M is just a really complicated, finetuned Substance that was made in Designer. You could re-build it yourself but it will take quite some time to get it working to the same tune. Designer does come with B2M Light (less options/advanced).
  • Jerc
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    Jerc interpolator
    Dataday wrote: »
    Purchased one as well. Now the next question is, does Substance cover what Bitmap2material does as well?
    Bitmap2material is nothing more than a substance that has been built in Substance Designer. Although the commercial version of B2M is not shipped with SD, there is a lite version in there that you can build upon to create you own customized version of it.
    So the answer is yes, it does cover what B2M does, just not straight out of the box.

    Edit: Laurens beat me to it!
  • fearian
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    fearian greentooth
    I caved and got this - good discount and the free updates where too good to miss!

    Just gotta ignore these black friday sales now I've spent my monies...:poly122:
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    Jerc wrote: »
    Bitmap2material is nothing more than a substance that has been built in Substance Designer. Although the commercial version of B2M is not shipped with SD, there is a lite version in there that you can build upon to create you own customized version of it.
    So the answer is yes, it does cover what B2M does, just not straight out of the box.

    Edit: Laurens beat me to it!

    Thanks you two for the feedback. I like that SD and even b2m are being offered as stand alone applications, as opposed to those in plug-in form (my copy of ndo2 for example).

    Now I know you said we can message you regarding a keycode...but I'm still getting used to the idea of having commercial apps on steam though, are there any benefits to having exist within steam? Since these apps are "investments" of sorts, it generally feels safer to have them outside of steam and There doesnt seem to be a keycode or user code associated with the license within steam, so it feel a bit less secure from a user standpoint.
  • Jerc
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    Jerc interpolator
    Dataday wrote: »
    Now I know you said we can message you regarding a keycode...but I'm still getting used to the idea of having commercial apps on steam though, are there any benefits to having exist within steam? Since these apps are "investments" of sorts, it generally feels safer to have them outside of steam and There doesnt seem to be a keycode or user code associated with the license within steam, so it feel a bit less secure from a user standpoint.

    The advantage of buying on Steam is the sale price and auto-updates, but if you prefer buying from us directly, send us an email through our contact form and we will make sure we match the current Steam price :)
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    fwiw, I bought on Steam and wish i didn't in hindsight. I start this thing a lot, and having to go through Steam sucks because it's a few extra clicks. I also can't seem to get it to run without Steam. It's much easier to start at work without Steam.
    On top of that, it keeping all the program data inside Steamapps is weird and I'd prefer that not to happen.

    Plus i think if you buy directly from them, Allegorithmic get a bigger cut of your money :)
  • iskandar80
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    iskandar80 polycounter lvl 6
    Xoliul wrote: »
    fwiw, I bought on Steam and wish i didn't in hindsight. I start this thing a lot, and having to go through Steam sucks because it's a few extra clicks. I also can't seem to get it to run without Steam. It's much easier to start at work without Steam.
    On top of that, it keeping all the program data inside Steamapps is weird and I'd prefer that not to happen.

    Plus i think if you buy directly from them, Allegorithmic get a bigger cut of your money :)

    For those who are not at ease with the Steam version, please send us a PM on our contact form so that you can either buy the license at Steam price from our Website or get a standalone key after your Steam purchase.

    And thanks for the "bigger cut" consideration, haha :)
  • oXYnary
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    oXYnary polycounter lvl 18
    I don't know if you guys already know this, but the intro movie is coming up as substance designer 3.2

    Edit: And the tutorials page on your site is 404'ing.
    http://www.allegorithmic.com/tutorials/
  • riot
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    riot polycounter lvl 11
    This looks so awesome!

    As an artist I've not really been interested in Substance Designer before, but considering the workflow that (I believe, from what has been shown) will be used for the next gen games, especially the layered materials systems like the one in ue4, I can see this tool really coming in handy.

    Going to give it a try for sure!
  • Xazas
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    Xazas polycounter lvl 7
    iskandar80 wrote: »
    For those who are not at ease with the Steam version, please send us a PM on our contact form so that you can either buy the license at Steam price from our Website or get a standalone key after your Steam purchase.

    And thanks for the "bigger cut" consideration, haha :)

    I can't expect you to answer this but is it also possible the other way around? Which means buying it through your website and also have grt steam key? And if not, will this offer be also there for a future steam sale, in case such a sale will happen somwhere in the future?
    I am asking because I plan to buy the NC version now and the commercial license at a later date.

    EDIT: and the "bigger cut" is also a consideration for me.
  • Jerc
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    Jerc interpolator
    oXYnary wrote: »
    I don't know if you guys already know this, but the intro movie is coming up as substance designer 3.2

    Edit: And the tutorials page on your site is 404'ing.
    http://www.allegorithmic.com/tutorials/
    Thanks for the heads up, looks like we forgot to update the links on the welcome screen for the new website.
    Xazas wrote: »
    I can't expect you to answer this but is it also possible the other way around? Which means buying it through your website and also have grt steam key?
    35509080.jpg
    (yes you can get a Steam key with your standalone purchase)
  • Xazas
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    Xazas polycounter lvl 7
    You are my hero :-)
    I have not even bought your product and have to say your user support is absolutely over the top!
  • Froyok
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    Froyok greentooth
    Xoliul wrote: »
    fwiw, I bought on Steam and wish i didn't in hindsight. I start this thing a lot, and having to go through Steam sucks because it's a few extra clicks. I also can't seem to get it to run without Steam. It's much easier to start at work without Steam.
    On top of that, it keeping all the program data inside Steamapps is weird and I'd prefer that not to happen.
    For people wondering how to launch Designer without using the Steam UI :

    http://forum.allegorithmic.com/index.php/topic,442.msg2117.html#msg2117
  • Teessider
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    Teessider polycounter lvl 11
    Took the plunge and bought it on steam! I have no gripes with running through steam (for now)
  • cw
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    cw polycounter lvl 17
    Really interested in looking at this for work as well as personal stuff - seems to have a ton of relevance for us!
  • Jerc
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    Jerc interpolator
    Here is a new video tutorial about the creation of base materials in Substance Designer 4.
    The actual tutorial starts around 0:30. Bear with me for the accent :)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71V6Vi6OpbM"]Base material Tutorial - Substance Designer 4 - YouTube[/ame]
  • motionblur
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    motionblur polycounter lvl 11
    Jerc wrote: »
    BTW, any of you who bought SD 3.x on Steam get SD 4 and all future SD 4.x updates for free, you will see the upgrade automatically in your Steam library.

    And finally, all Substance Designer versions are on sale at 50% during the Autumn sales on Steam, starting right now!

    HhTat's really awesome. If it wasn't on Steam only I'd buy a commercial license instantly. Somehow I don't really want to start steam for any serious work tool I'm using, though. I don't know - it feels wrong to do that... :shifty:

    Awesome move to make the non Commercial Steam Version still free to use for DOTA2. BTW - just out of curiosity. Can the DOTA2 presets be obtained for the Non-Steam Version as well or are they bundeled more or less "exclusively"?
  • Stromberg90
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    Stromberg90 polycounter lvl 11
    Jerc wrote: »
    Here is a new video tutorial about the creation of base materials in Substance Designer 4.
    The actual tutorial starts around 0:30. Bear with me for the accent :)

    oh man, that video I got all sorts of ideas, maybe I need to try it out again :)
  • iskandar80
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    iskandar80 polycounter lvl 6
    motionblur wrote: »
    HhTat's really awesome. If it wasn't on Steam only I'd buy a commercial license instantly. Somehow I don't really want to start steam for any serious work tool I'm using, though. I don't know - it feels wrong to do that... :shifty:

    Awesome move to make the non Commercial Steam Version still free to use for DOTA2. BTW - just out of curiosity. Can the DOTA2 presets be obtained for the Non-Steam Version as well or are they bundeled more or less "exclusively"?

    If you are not comfortable with having the Steam version, please send us a PM on our contact form and we'll provide you SD at Steam price using a coupon.

    And the non commercial licenses from our Website also allows to resell assets on the Steam Workshop (for DOTA2, TF2...), no difference here and we can send you the Dota 2 template as well. Isn't life beautiful :poly136:?
  • Bigjohn
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    Bigjohn polycounter lvl 11
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmEawPCAtEQ"]Substance Painter Video Teaser - YouTube[/ame]

    Edit:
    I forgot to say: Holy fuck...
  • repete
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    repete polycounter lvl 6
    ohh fuck yeah :)

    That looks bad ass :poly121:
    Bigjohn wrote: »
    Substance Painter Video Teaser - YouTube

    Edit:
    I forgot to say: Holy fuck...
  • Shiv
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    Shiv polycounter lvl 15
    So i have been trying to use some of the generate tools within the editor i am constantly running into broken noise being generated rather than anything useful -
    Substance_Fail.PNG
    Like this.
    This is baked in substance using a curvature map into an edge wear (why are their 3 named the exact same... whats the difference?) The same stuff happens for a lot of the different generators of this type and its kind of frustrating, kills a big part of it for me.

    Edit - Scratch that a chunk of the noise generators just return that same crap as well :\

    Found the solution - swapped the engine to dx10 and all the things work.
    woo
  • Jerc
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    Jerc interpolator
    Yep, Dx9 engine is deprecated, we will remove it in a future update.
  • almighty_gir
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    almighty_gir ngon master
    Have just created a modified version of the physically based shader for substance designer. This modified version allows you to work with a full specular map (like toolbag2, for example) instead of using the metalness workflow that the default physically based shader of SD4 uses.

    http://crazyferretstudios.com/public/substance_shader.zip

    place the contents of the zip file in: Substance Designer/resources/view3d/shaders

    Outputs you will need to use are: diffuse, roughness, specular, normal. i'll add support for cavity map later if people really want it. roughness has been left the way it is as default in SD4 (ie - black is shiny, white is rough).
  • rogelio
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    rogelio greentooth
    posted these from this thread link

    Download

    Substance Tools

    Tiny Update

    I decided to remake the curvature map inside substance designer. The substance designer curvature node map filter comes with a noise issue that was just not great for composting on top of base colors. Especially on clean meshes like the robot low poly I was having aliasing issues on the gradients of the normals where it would create micro facets so I made this node to clean that up.

    This cavity node has three outputs

    Cavity = everything blended together
    Peaks = the top usually white point of the cavity
    valleys= the dark points of the cavity

    It comes with several slider groups

    Noise Reduction

    blur out the noise or bringing it in. sometimes you want a bit of noise in your cavity but now you can choose for a clean or noisy feel. Also comes with opacity slider for further tweaking.

    Peaks

    position and contrast together work like a ramp to thin out the line or deepen it.
    It has an opacity slider also.

    Valleys

    position and contrast together work like a ramp to thin out the line or deepen it.
    It has an opacity slider also.

    Normal influence opacity


    This is not really part of a true cavity but you can decide to use it. it is basically the blue channel of the normal multiplied onto of everything to give it more form.

    Another tool added into the download is

    Overlay Grayscale

    Substance designer already has a overlay but it uses rgb. I made this version out of the substance designer one and optimized it without breaking the actual function of it, it is slightly cheaper and the end all it does is keep my graphs clean with less rgb to grayscale conversions etc. The function is the same just used for grayscale images. So since the cavity graph uses it needs to be included. :)

    The sample normal map samples below are from GameTextures.com free textures. I will keep on using those as samples from time to time :)

    The installation is pretty easy just unzip the files onto the Substance Designer\resources\packages to view and use these nodes. This is the first time I am trying it on other machines so I am curious if it will work as I think it should :D I have the steam version which makes the directory different for everyone...

    I guess we will see if it works out.

    again I want to repeat these are not my texture these are from the awesome and talented artist at GameTextures.com

    sub_cavity.jpg?w=1200

    Like I said this is going to be sort of slow going. Mostly just putting things together, It is actually kind of cool since I am forced to recreate things again and I am quickly finding more efficient ways of doing stuff.

    Thanks for the comments so far.

    The robot is all uved and normal mapped ill package that guy in soon.

    Question about file folder placement...

    btw here is a question is it possible to just put these in substance/resources folder. some people have the steam version and some have the regular versions if I put it in the correct substance directories within substance will the nodes still work correctly for everyone else? I am uncomfortable with making a different folder setup for no reason.
  • Sean VanGorder
    That's awesome rogelio, thanks for sharing. I'll give it a try next time I'm in Substance.
  • Jerc
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    Jerc interpolator
    Indeed thanks for sharing rogelio and almighty_gir! I'll try that new curvature filter right away :)

    About the library folders, yes the best way to make sure it works for everyone is to place them in the main \resources\packages folder and use the right tags so it shows in the proper category of the library.
    We are improving the ability to add custom folders also to make sure it's easier to share custom libraries between users.
  • rogelio
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    rogelio greentooth
    posted these from this thread link

    NOTE: If you downloaded the previous files please delete those and add these to the correct directory thanks :)
    these now use the substance folders.

    Download

    Substance Tools

    Updated where the files go in. now all files go in into the basic substance directory unzip contents into Substance Designer\resources\packages and all should work well.

    and files are named RO_etc also for ease of finding in substance

    -RO AO

    -RO Cavity

    -RO Overlay Grayscale

    The download comes with the previous Cavity, and Overlay but now I added an AO node.

    This AO node was made specifically for tileable texture use I do not expect this to be used on unique baked models. I looks close to a x-normal ao bake on flat AOs on a settings which I use for my flat AO bakes.

    this node comes with many properties to change the look. In general the prebaked in properties should be good for most tileable AO maps and you can tweak the properties to get a better look by individually tweaking stuff in or out.

    Note: it is easy to messup the AO map with the properties so be careful. Also the height map that gets inputted makes a difference. at times the height maps might have too much darkened areas It might be suggested to tweak the dark spots into a dark gray before inputting in.

    sub_ao.jpg
  • Paradan
    thanks for the tools.

    AO, and cavity arent showing up in the library. I think they need their category and tag to be capitalized.
  • rogelio
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    rogelio greentooth
    Paradan wrote: »
    thanks for the tools.

    AO, and cavity arent showing up in the library. I think they need their category and tag to be capitalized.

    Fix Download

    fixed it was just bad tagging on my part and Filters actually being Filter.

    Seen the files have been downloaded several times guys let me know what you all think. :)
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I think I found a bug, if you double click the left input on a node, the whole application will crash. :\
  • Octo
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    Octo polycounter lvl 17
    Is there a way to collapse/merge a bunch of nodes into a single node?
    If not, Feature request:

    Node trees tend to get cluttered quickly, so selecting a chain of say 8 nodes and turn those into a single one will surely help to overview and organize it.
    Being able to expose important settings and outputs on that new node would be nice.
    When double clicking that new node, you'd either expand it temporarily, or "go into it" for tweaking.
    Either that, or "turn selected nodes into new graph" without outputs and use that new graph to takes its place in the node chain.

    Am I making any sense here? heh

    I am also missing a way to insert and remove a node into a chain without having to manually connect the splines...If I drop a node right onto a splines it should connect automatically (with a preview), maybe holding ctrl or so would be necessary.
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    Octo wrote: »
    Is there a way to collapse/merge a bunch of nodes into a single node?

    Yeah just make a subgraph out of it with exposed input and output nodes. Open up some of their nodes from the library, drag and drop a node from the library into the list of opened graphs to check it out.
    Essentially you just create a new graph inside your package that is not intended as a main graph but rather as a part of the main.
  • Octo
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    Octo polycounter lvl 17
    One more question.
    If I import a 1k texture into a 2k graph, how do I tile it twice to get it up to 2k?
    Adding a transformation node and stretch it 50% is the only way i know for tiling,
    but that of course results in a 1k map still, as in 4x512.

    Would it help to set the Output Size for that node to 1?
    I'm still not quite clear about that setting, relative vs absolute etc.
  • Froyok
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    Froyok greentooth
    A transform node is indeed what you need to tile a texture. Regarding the size, it depends what you want : Parent or Absolute. Parent will use the size defined for the whole graph (you can change it by clicking in the background of the graph) or absolute to use a predefined size.

    In you case, make your texture tile 2 times in the transform node and then put it with an absolute size of 2048px.


    I personally works with the "parent" setting, this way the size is managed in the target application (like UDK) instead of being predefined in Designer. While working I put the graph with an absolute size, and just before exporting I put it back to "relative to parent".
  • Octo
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    Octo polycounter lvl 17
    Guess I'll bump this again..Thanks for the replies so far.
    More questions which turns into feature requests if there isn't a good answer :)

    -Is there a way to temporarily disable a node to view the graph as it wasn't there?

    -When exposing parameters for the levels node, there are 4 sliders for each "knob" (low, mid, high). I end up with 12 sliders where I only need 3.
    I suppose those are RGBA, but in most cases I use a level node for tweaking greyscale masks...so, is there a way to expose only 1 slider per 'knob' or turn the levels node into greyscale only, for the same effect?
    Or a "brightness/contrast" node
  • Paradan
    theres a contrast/luminosity filter in the library, under adjustments.
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