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Tree Fortress Environment

polycounter lvl 11
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jackalope polycounter lvl 11
Hello all. I found this concept piece that I really liked, it's by Tony Holmsten. Thought I would try my hand at making it.

northernwoods5.jpeg


currently blocking things out in Maya.
3xOyj.png

yup, that's it. nothing too exciting. Just a thread to document my progress.
Feel free to critique. Or silently creep by my post.

Replies

  • Mr Smo
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    Mr Smo polycounter lvl 18
    awesome concept! that is one sweet tree, nice start. good luck :)
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    The concept art is awesome. Your block-out looks good for the moment, not enough detail yet to critique the volumes. Maybe just push that mountain on the left a bit more. It used less space in the concept.
  • BenHenry
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    BenHenry polycounter lvl 11
    I'd love to see where this goes, keep going.
  • Rurouni Strife
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    Rurouni Strife polycounter lvl 10
    That is one awesome concept piece. Are you going to do photo real or keep the concept's style, which seems to match a bit with Uncharted's style a bit IMO. Anywho, good luck, I will be eagerly watching this :)
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 15
    Things are looking frail:
    -6 narrower 'windows' instead of 5 slightly chunkier ones
    -smallest 'gate' has much thinner walls
    -cantilever goes out further but is less thick
    -extrusions on the 'gates' are to deep
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    Thanks everyone for their interest and feedback. got a small amount of work done today.
    The mountain i haven't touched because I plan on replacing it soon.
    I got rid of one arch, so now i should have the right total of 5.
    Tried to fix the extrusions on the gates, and i'm not sure what you meant about the Cantilever, but i took a second look at it and tried to get it closer to the concept.

    74qlY.png
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    @Rurouni Strife
    That's one thing i'm debating right now. I think it would be cool to have it stylized and make it look more like the original concept, but I have no experience doing that, so I am not quite sure how to accomplish it. Any suggestions would be welcomed.
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    Worked on one of the background trees. Iv'e used speedtree before. But never made one from scratch. So any suggestions would be appreciated. I still need to make a texture for the trunk (the one it has is temp, and it has no normal map).

    0Vr5R.png

    k1Tgd.jpg

    1mBdF.jpg

    ND2Cd.jpg
  • AngryMindtricks
    in my opinion, i'd scrap speedtree for this tree... this tree is your FOCUS so i would probably go to town on this piece DIY style lol.

    Of course it doesn't mean speedtree is useless, it's an amazing program but only for quick foliage trees to place here and there in a level which needs a forest-like environment and such but in this case, if it were me I'd sculpt and build my own.
    The main point of this is learning the pipeline of how these trees are created in speedtree and use it for your own gain :)

    Block up some meshes with enough even subdivisions for sculpting and sculpt to the win!

    great start with the blocking of this level btw, i get a good sense of scale from it which is a perfect start =) looking forward to how this turns out since the concept looks amazing :D

    -EDIT-

    Actually i should have probably read your post properly before commenting LOL, I would have deleted but just in case, I left this here if by any chance you were planning to use speedtree for the main tree any way.
  • elementrix
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    elementrix polycounter lvl 15
    when it comes to trees modelling the branches at that level of detail can be impressive but it's much more about the general feel of the texture and how the alpha works. Your branches there in udk feel very flat because as you can see none of that detail is showing from that distance and your alpha isn't going to show those extremely little details on the Mipmaps. I'd say throw some bigger noise around the edges of your alpha.

    Also, if you want to get close to the trees in that concept notice how thin they are and how much their branches curve where as yours looks pretty thick and the branches quite straight.
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    Back after the holiday break. Hope everyone is having a good new year.

    Worked the tree over again to elementrix's suggestion:

    5HVtw.png

    JdGUE.jpg
  • Rurouni Strife
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    Rurouni Strife polycounter lvl 10
    Those trees still feel kind of flat. Give the leaf planes on the tree some extra geometry for some depth. As far as the texture goes, Maybe having less pine needles is a good thing? I'm not sure you would have to test it out, but that would probably let those pine leaves read better.

    Any particular reason your starting with the pine trees?
  • marq4porsche
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    marq4porsche polycounter lvl 9
    Rorouni is right, you really should be fleshing out the main structures and the main tree moreso than focusing on the background trees. I would start with the main tree because it is going to be the focal point of the scene.

    Anyways for your current tree, don't be afraid to bend your polygons and also add more depth to your texture. You can layer your leaves some more in your model as well. Create individual branches that have depth then duplicate those as needed around the tree. Create 2 or 3 variations so that the patterns don't repeat too much and let your leaves overlap to create a fuller look. I also crossed my leaves to create an x shape which gives it more dimension as well.
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    thanks guys. I started on the pine trees because i wanted to practice. I haven't done trees before so i thought i would start on something easier, and less important. I will be starting the main tree though. After that is done i might come back and re-visit these.
  • Xendance
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    Xendance polycounter lvl 7
    I think the hipoly branch has too much needles. When you render the texture out of it and slap on some DXT compression in UDK, you'll pretty much lose all the alpha, and thus detail, in all mip levels (except the highest one).
  • teaandcigarettes
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    teaandcigarettes polycounter lvl 12
    Hey Jackalope

    I completely agree with the rest of the guys. Personally, I would definitely reduce the density of your highpoly mesh. You might want to make these needles a bit bigger, thicker and longer, but use fewer of them. Also, you might want to apply some 3ds max materials that have different brightness values, render that out as a map and overlay it over your texture. This should help your trees read better from the distance. Generally, if you want your foliage to read better try to leave at least 2 pixels of empty space between your needles (or a group of few needles) and adjust the levels of your alpha channel. There is also a setting in UDK (Opacity Mask Clip Value in the material editor) that allows you to tweak the opacity in the engine. UDK also allows you to control the sharpening of your mip maps. I explain this stuff at greater lengths in the tutorial I have recently made (see my sig if you are interested).
  • Mark Dygert
    For some reason I read "Team Fortress" and I thought "how does this relate?" and then I caught up... yea I'm quick today.

    After reading some of the comments I think there is some good advice. It looks pretty good so far, but following most of the advice should help you out technically and visually, good stuff.
  • synergy11
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    synergy11 polycounter lvl 6
    I REALLY like you're second picture of the forest.

    It has a great mood to it.

    Very Northern Ontario like.

    Good work!

    EDIT. You modeled each individual needle?!?!?!
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    @Xendance: You were totally right.

    @teaandcigaretts: Great advice helped a lot. The opacity mask clip value, and the mip map tips are great. I didn't know that.

    @Mark Dygert I actually thought that might happen after I posted and re-read the title.

    @Synergy11 Thanks! I am using maya, so i used the 3D paint effects tool. Got a tube to look the way i wanted and painted it on the branches. Then converted them to polys. The paint effects tool is finicky, but got what i wanted.


    So I went back and redid the highpoly branch/leaf mesh. tried to follow the advice given. Not done but here is my improvement so far

    ncmcS.jpg

    I think the needles are reading a lot better. I still need to tweek some things. and revisit the tree mesh.
    Thank you everyone for helping out.
  • teaandcigarettes
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    teaandcigarettes polycounter lvl 12
    Hey Jackalope, it looks better :) I would still reduce the density a little more. particualrly in the areas where needles come out from the branch (in your highpoly mesh ofc). You might want to scale the needles some more. Perhaps, make them twice (or even three times) as large and adjust their density some more. That might not be entierly realistic, but it will make them read better.

    Just wondering, are you using a normal map? For coniferous branches they can do wonders.

    Btw, it would be easier for me to give you some more tips if you could post your texture maps.
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    Thanks for all your help teaandcigarettes. I am actually following your tutorial. Really great stuff.
    Anyway here is my latest iteration:

    p1ETL.jpg

    B5CVi.jpg

    QTieY.jpg

    F4muz.jpg

    aY5L9.jpg

    I still need to revisit the actual tree mesh, but for now im going to just finish this branch texture.
  • teaandcigarettes
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    teaandcigarettes polycounter lvl 12
    Just some quick thoughts.

    I would vary the size of the needles a little bit more. Try to make them shorter as they get closer to the end of the twigs; you should be able to do that automatically in Object Paint in Graphite Tools. I would probably make them slightly thicker, so they remain visible from further away. Speaking of the twigs, I would make them thicker, right now they look very fragile. You might want to remodel their shape a little bit and redo the way they "branch out"; I'm speaking about the angle they extrude from the main branch and the way they bend. See the pic.

    branch_example.png


    The first example looks more like a branch, while the other one looks a bit more like a cactus. It's okay to have branches that extrude like the second example, nature is pretty random after all, but the first example always screams to me "I'm a tree" more than the other one.


    Edit:

    Forgot to mention, this also relates to how you might want to position the branches on the tree. The larger the branches, the larger the angle between the trunk and the branch. But regardless, you might want to keep that V like shape, even if its very subtle.

    Edit2:

    I would also scale the alpha'ed planes up a little bit.
  • AlanSMitchell
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    AlanSMitchell polycounter lvl 14
    The progress you have made on this is like night and day very cool bookmarked.
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    Ok i incorporated some of what you said teaandcigarettes. I havn't gotten to the rest. I might work on something else and come back do this cause i'm getting a little burned out on it. And leaving it for a while and coming back to it with a new perspective would probably be a good thing.

    J02jv.jpg

    ZvUDX.jpg

    vdQin.jpg

    @dudealan2001 Thanks!

    @luke yeah it is. I am thinking of having a whole environment so i could move the camera around anywhere. So definitively closer shots.
  • verybad
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    verybad polycounter lvl 17
    I don't think I've ever said this before, but I would like to sekks that tree.
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    @verybad haha, thanks for the compliment.

    I was able to mess around with some grass.
    Went for the gratuitous amount of grass placement, just for fun.

    BLy9U.jpg

    7hxaH.jpg

    emR0R.jpg
  • DillonBarba
  • marq4porsche
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    marq4porsche polycounter lvl 9
    Beautiful work sir!!!
  • pinkbox
    awesome work! vast improvement from the first tree

    /Edit - i want to run in that grass! :P
  • Artist_in_a_box
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    Artist_in_a_box polycounter lvl 7
    I was skimming through this quite quickly and really thought that was a photograph. Nice trees lol
  • sltrOlsson
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    sltrOlsson polycounter lvl 14
    I got to say, this is really coming together! Any more work on the buildings and what not? Keep it up! I like!
  • Paunescu.Daniel
    Loving it, the grass looks really believable, have you enabled any AntiAliasing yet? Trees in the distance look a little jaggy.
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    started blocking in the main tree in zbrush

    RHzdw.png
  • Hexidine
    Teaandcigs has shown you the brach distirbution as an image, but I think you should check out the Fibonacci sequence if you havn't already.
    You can check there how many branches you need and how they grow and all.
    Hope it helps.

    Mike
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    @marq4porsche Thank you sir.
    @pinkbox Thanks, improvement is all due to contribution from polycount. You guys are great.
    @Artist_in_a_box I guess i am getting somewhere then. thanks for the comment.
    @sltrOlsson Haven't worked on the buildings anymore yet. Just started on the main tree as evidenced by my last post. Buildings will probably be next.
    @Paunescu.Daniel I haven't played with AA yet. I will probably do it when i am in the post process stage
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    Been a little while trying to figure this zbrush thing out.
    Currently working on the dead looking outer shell of the big main tree.

    5AcR5.png

    laOM9.png
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    Well I just got laid off...
    Maybe it will give me the chance to finish this project...
    If I can find a computer to work on.
  • Stinkhorse
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    Stinkhorse polycounter lvl 12
    Damn that really sucks Jackalope. You'll bounce back man, people will be knocking down your door to hire you I'm sure!
  • Orangeknight
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    Orangeknight polycounter lvl 5
    Thats to bad, hope you find a new job Good Luck! But I would like to see this project finished it looks nice so far. Though something doesnt look right with the tree, cant really place my finger on it.
  • strobelite
    Please keep working on this! That grass is really beautiful.
  • SinisterChef
    Keep your chin up mate, turn this into a stellar portfolio piece. You have a solid head start.
  • iniside
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    iniside polycounter lvl 6
    Very nice pine branch you got there!
    Care to tell how you did this ? Splines, or branch tool in 3ds max ?
    And Needles, are they just planes, or cylinder, with gradien map ? Or you got yourself needles texture somewhere ? :D
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    well i have been busy moving out of my apartment, and trying to find another job.
    sorry about the late reply iniside, I dont know if you will actually see my answer but might as well.
    I've been working in Maya, so I dont know the parallel with max but for the actual branches i just made some cylinders and manipulated them. i duplicated them around and changed them up until i had some results i was happy with.
    Since it just gets baked down into a texture it didnt matter if it was just geo behind other geo. nothing really had to be welded together or anything.
    For the needles I used the 3D paint effects tool, it just lets you paint down shapes. So i worked up the shape of needle i wanted and painted it on the branch. You can also change the texture of them, which was useful for creating some gradient maps.
    Then i baked out a normal map, gradient maps, color. and just comped them in photoshop.

    Anyway, been busy with other things, but wanted to keep up with 3D (im kinda limited until my new computer arrives next week)
    so ive been playing around with this:
    pVds3.png

    realtime Maya viewport.
  • jackalope
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    jackalope polycounter lvl 11
    Got a new computer so I can actually work on things now.

    put some of the props ive been working on together.

    mxVBh.jpg
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