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Cel-Shaded Environment

Hey!

I started working on a little environment today and, since I want to get this right, I'm posting a first picture here to get feedback on my water. The 'oh-so-treacherous' water... In my first post here, I linked to this video:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0dx2tFEvCE[/ame]

And I was told that my water was somewhat disturbing. So! As an artist who thrives to better himself, I'm asking to anyone out there: What do you think of my water, what would you have done and waht should I do to get a good look with my environment?

Thank you
-Phil-

fisher1.png

Replies

  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 12
    I think in the video your water looks to busy for the cel shaded style, but in the picture it looks to flat.

    Try to brighten the blue in the picture and try to add some white or light blue streaks that are exaggerated like in wind waker.
    006.jpg
  • special821
    I'll try and do that, I'll keep you updated on the results, but I have a small question, do I leave my water translucent or do I put it opaque?
  • Habboi
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    Habboi sublime tool
    I think opaque suits cel shaded more. Transparent always screams like the artist is trying to mix real with fiction.
  • special821
    Great, I've already started modifying it, so I'll post a screenshot as soon as I'm finished!
  • special821
    So, Here it is, I've managed to put together a shader that might be what I'm looking for. Now I just need some opinions as to what type of light blue/wgite I should put, I've got two screens here for you;
    fisher2.png
    fisher3.png
  • special821
    Oups, forgot to attach


    fisher2.png
    fisher3.png
  • Habboi
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    Habboi sublime tool
    Much better. As for my favourite, the top picture. White on blue is the traditional colours for cel shaded water.

    Finally, the jagged edges really bug me. Is that something you can fix?

    edit: Why not try combining both. See pic:

    http://images.wikia.com/zelda/images/8/8c/Salvage_Corp.png
  • special821
    Ok, so I've added a second, darker, detail in the water as you said.

    As for the jagged edges, that's because of my outline post-process. Fortunatly, it looks great in game, even if it looks awfull in a png...

    fisher4.png

    Heres Without the outline Post-Process:

    fisher5.png
  • Sukotto
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    Sukotto polycounter lvl 8
    Sweet! How did you do the splashes at the bottom of the waterfall?
  • special821
    I made a quick toon cloud particle system, I still need to tune it so it looks more like a sort of mist... I might change the texture also, who knows.
  • jimmypopali
    Really great progress!
  • Hayden Zammit
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    Hayden Zammit polycounter lvl 12
    Love that water. Looks real close to the water out of Wind Waker. Would be cool to see how it looks in motion.
  • KnightVision3d
    Looks awesome, stick a couple of worms with grenades in there and you have yourself a war! :P

    It does look good though, another game you might want to reference for cel shading is "thirteen" for xbox. It wasn't the greatest game ever, but I thought the cel shading was pretty cool
  • special821
    A quick update!

    I've modified the waterfall, so it looks more like a waterfall rather than a vertical water stream... so here it is:

    fisher6.png
  • Hayden Zammit
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    Hayden Zammit polycounter lvl 12
    One thing I might suggest you try is instead of having a simple black outline, try and get the color to match the object that its around. I'm not too good with shaders in UDK, but isn't there a way to have it overlay or multiply over the geo?

    You see a lot of pro comic artists do it like that, and it adds a lot.
  • special821
    I'm not quite sur what you mean. Are you talking about an outline that is basically the objects color, but darkened?

    Edit: Ok, I got it up and running, Herre are two screens for you to see if 2X or 3X the color is best!

    I could also darken the color if you want to see what it looks like, but it'll bring back some black outlines...

    fisher7.png

    fisher8.png
  • Hayden Zammit
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    Hayden Zammit polycounter lvl 12
    I'm not quite sur what you mean. Are you talking about an outline that is basically the objects color, but darkened?

    Yeah, basically. Take a look at this image for example: http://cupcakerogues.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/ultimates3_cover_5_by_liquidology.jpg

    You see on the blonde hair the outline is closer to a blonde color. Captain america in the middle is blue, so there are parts of his outline that are blue.

    Is it set to an overlay or something in those pics you posted? I'm guessing it is because it looks lighter. Using a multiply blend mode should give you the darker outlines which should look better.

    The technical artist for a team I worked with a while back got it working and it looked good I thought. Unfortunately I don't even have any pics of how it looked or any of the UDK packages.

    Its just something you might wanna consider looking into. Might be better if you fleshed out your scene a bit more first.
  • special821
    I think I get it now, Look at this and tell me waht you think:

    I got rid of most of the black outlines that resurfaced when multiplying with a darker color

    maybe a bigger outline overall?

    fisher9.png
  • Hayden Zammit
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    Hayden Zammit polycounter lvl 12
    I think I get it now, Look at this and tell me waht you think:

    I got rid of most of the black outlines that resurfaced when multiplying with a darker color

    maybe a bigger outline overall?

    I think it looks better that way. Looks much more subtle. The thing I hate about outlines in a lot of games is when they're just black they don't always blend well with the actual models and textures.

    I think the method of having them multiply over like that makes it seem more like they're complimenting the models rather than trying to draw away too much focus. I'd maybe make them a bit less strong. Of course, having them black is fine too; its more a matter of what style you want.

    Personally, I think Wind Waker done this sort of art style the best. They didn't actually use outlines in that though.
  • Ron.S
    How do you go texturing cell shaded within UDK O_O that looks awesome man !
  • special821
    I think I might just get rid of the outline, not quite sure at this stage....

    As for the cel-shaded in udk, Its a custom lit material that I built. I first followed a tutorial and then got one up myself. I'll take a screenshot when I have time.

    Edit: here, you multiply the cel-shading with your diffuse texture and then add the specular. You plug all this in the CustomLighting node and plug the diffuse in the CustomLightingDiffuse node

    I have switches and parameters because I use an instance of my material to se in real-time what I change, instead of compiling each time..

    cel.png

    spec.png
  • special821
    So! It's been about a week since I've posted... And I just ran in a small problem, I would like my sea material to create ripples around objects like the water in the image at the bottom of this post. I'm not even sure if this is possible with the unreal material editor but if possible in any way, i'd like to know. Thanks for any help you can give me!

    -Phil

    006.jpg
  • Mike Yevin
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    Mike Yevin polycounter lvl 11
    special821 wrote: »
    fisher8.png

    man that is looking nice, so much of an improvement from the boring black outline. keep it up
  • EMC3D
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    EMC3D polycounter lvl 7
    Oozing with style, get more meshes in there, clouds, castles, flying things! Look at the Tales series for inspiration and reference.
  • BARDLER
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    BARDLER polycounter lvl 12
    special821 wrote: »
    So! It's been about a week since I've posted... And I just ran in a small problem, I would like my sea material to create ripples around objects like the water in the image at the bottom of this post. I'm not even sure if this is possible with the unreal material editor but if possible in any way, i'd like to know. Thanks for any help you can give me!

    -Phil

    006.jpg

    I know it is possible in UDK because this guy did it. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zObKrJY0Nnk[/ame]
    I am guessing he used a particle effect. Or somehow created a material that could find the edges of a mesh.
  • special821
    @Mr Bear

    Yeah, I'll add things in there when I get my shader right

    @Tyler

    Thanks! I'll look into this as soon as I have a second!
  • krimzondestiny
    get more meshes in there

    I know you know, but I feel it necessary to re-state/bump this thread. I was wondering if you've gone further with this project since last year. I am really excited to see it finished!!!
  • special821
    Hey, sorry for the late response, I hadn't noticed someone posted on this thread!

    As fot this project, no, I didn't finish it. I still have my files, but I got in a project with some friends from school, but they all got jobs, so it kinda didn't get off. Then I hit the beautiful problem of me not being able to texture properly, wich kind of demoralized me. So I started an other little project, and the cycle repeats itself. Though recently I decided that I should hone a bit my skills in texturing.

    So, as I like the hand-painted/cel-shaded style. I'm working on my skills to hand paint my own textures, so far it's going pretty good. While I'm doing this, I'm also making a similar environment to apply all my textures. I'll post it in a new thread once it's a bit more advanced than it is right now!
  • SirSpangles
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    SirSpangles polycounter lvl 4
    which tutorial did u follow for the black outline?
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