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Erasam Emberhart - Obese Blood Elf Engineer; Blizzard Student Art Contest 2012 Charac

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  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    If I were in your shoes, I would just straight up low poly model it and then paint everything in the diffuse map. The contest rules say one 1024 x 1024 for the finished character, so I would follow that.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    No need for cavity map or AO then? Sounds lke it'd be useful if I could get one.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    You can just paint the AO into your diffuse or use render to texture to get the AO started. Baking out a cavity map seems like it would slow down your workflow since you've taken the time to sculpt something that you're not going to be baking a normal map from for this particular project. I think working a high poly sculpt into your workflow would be cool if you were doing this as a separate project, but for this contest just go diffuse all the way. :)
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    From my estimation I got 2 more weeks, 24 hours each (no school, work study isn't open atm), so the option of doing a high poly is still possible for me. Also, if this doesn't work for BLizzard, it would hopefully prove in general to employers I know what to do, be that Riot, Obsidian, etc.

    I'll look into what to do from here. Might as well retopo the body :), shouldn't harm nothing.
  • AimBiZ
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    AimBiZ polycounter lvl 14
    Like the others I recommend you to jump straight to the lopoly. Retopo and baking will only cost you a lot of extra time and might even produce results inconsistent with the given style that you'll need to paint over anyway. Also if you're not very experienced with that kind of style you should reserve as much time for the texturing as possible.

    Making a diffuse-only and "current gen" version of the character will only spread it thin in execution I think. Produce the kind of work you actually want to do professionally and not to satisfy a certain company. If you want to do WoW style stuff, go for it! If you also want to do normalmapped stuff you should creatu unique pieces for that.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Everything takes 4 times longer than you expect, never assume you have enough time.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Alright, jumpg staight into the low poly. I'll save the high poly for later I suppose after the 15th. Not a lot done past couple of days due to a bad flu case. That subtracts a couple full powered days from my schedule.

    Marmoset is freaking out at the moment for some reason, so I'm gonna hand ya'll the quick and dirty from Maya as an update.

    Are the wires cogent atm?
    - Missing the joint bends, planning to deal with those once I get everything blocked in, mesh wise.
    - Shoulder doodads, cannon, bags, etc missing but will get done.

    Anything else that needs critiquing?

    hEukT.jpg
  • lotet
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    lotet hero character
    wow, I gotta say your new concept looks WAY better then the first one. good luck and I hope you can build that new design in 3D.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    5687 Triangles as of right now

    A lot of items blocked in. Missing odds and ends like the cigar, ears, eyebrows, etc.

    Unoptimized: What I mean by that is that the legs aren't fused into the torso, and super hidden faces aren't perfectly gone or have gone through a strenuous hidden faces.

    I guess my concern right now is if it is bad to have a lot of floating geometry with WoW style work.

    That and, everytime I want to export this to Marmoset, it gives me a crash error and zips out. Not sure what's happening there, so is till can't take cleaner shots.

    LF Critiques! Topology, better practices, etc!

    K9NE0.jpg

    View model online, CLick Here.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Blood Elf Engineer WIP 30

    5216 triangles at the moment. A little too close for comfort.

    Need critique on wires and topology etc. Gonna start making all the loose props in the mean time. Legs are fused to the body, but I still got floating geo going around.

    Once again, unsexy wireframe shots through Maya. Marmoset is still freaking out everytime I want to import this obj, but it's working with my other objs.

    View the 3D turnaround


    C5qja.jpg
  • artquest
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    artquest polycounter lvl 13
    ZacD wrote: »
    Everything takes 4 times longer than you expect, never assume you have enough time.

    This +1


    Also, I would spend the time you would have used making the high poly mesh and instead further refine your concept. I think your character has the blood elf feel. but the cannon feels like you shrunk down a building and stuck it on his back. See if you can find something that works a bit better for your scale.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    True story. This flu LITERALLY came onto me 4 days ago, and it's been stopping my concentration and ability to sit still. Still coughing up mucus, etc.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Modeling DONE. Cept like that wire for the weapon, but iono if I want that in there.

    DAmbk.jpg

    http://p3d.in/SQAEm
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    RAWGHGHH!!! UV-ing done! Combination of Zbrush UV Master and Manual work in Maya since UV Master doesn't like playing nice with really low poly assets.

    5900 tris w/ weapon. I feel terrible.

    Did I screw up the UV placements in any way? Because I don't recall in the past ever really getting chewed out for my UV placement,but better now than later.

    I guess also the big question is whether I am allowed to have a separate map for the weapon.

    http://p3d.in/6LdWl

    2e6xo.jpg

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  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Poked Blizzard about whether I can use a separate map for the weapon on Twitter :P
  • ozzy310
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    ozzy310 polycounter lvl 8
    Nice, I was also wondering whether we can use alphas.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    I think so? I mean, they're not getting HANDED the map, per se.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    Perhaps you could have your alpha embedded in your diffuse's alpha channel?
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Now that's a technique I haven't learned yet. We've been using tansparency maps on the game we're working on at school, though it takes inordinate amounts of time for my tastes.
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 15
    Sure you have learned that. It's how *.PNG works. It's not some special format, it's just RGBA. 32 bit color.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    I know that can happen, but the game engines I have been working with, along with whatever Graphics Programmer is attached to me, they've needed separate transparency maps for in-game use. I've seen the PNGs work for sure, just for some reason, the final execution doesn't end up that way.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    The crucible approaches! I suppose this is the most important part.

    Here's where I'm at, using a mix of Photoshop and 3D coat to do this.

    I also have a technical inquiry, I'm not sure wth is going on with my left side items that look all shaded strangely. Duplicate Special in Maya across the X axis, and reversed / set to face normals as needed, but I'm still getting that weird shading issue. Not sure what to do or how to fix it.

    Weapon is included on the map, so the 1024 holds EVERYTHING.

    Going to bake out that vertical gradient closer to the end instead of right now.

    http://p3d.in/bunxH

    A7g4y.jpg

    rfi4x.jpg
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 15
    Ouch. That face is unwrapped in a rather inconvenient position. I recommend you to at least rotate the unwrap 90 degrees CCW so the face is kind-of upright.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    I got PS CS5, so it works for me because of the Rotate Tool. Should I still rotate it to a 90 degree position?
  • praetus
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    praetus interpolator
    I don't know if it's something you can change at this point but those goggles are further apart than his eyes by quite a bit. You may want to move the lenses a little closer together.
  • Torch
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    Torch interpolator
    I got PS CS5, so it works for me because of the Rotate Tool. Should I still rotate it to a 90 degree position?

    Its more so you don't have to keep rotating it back and forth, then saving everytime you want to see a quick update. (It would be better to have it upright and create an action in PS for saving out your diffuse map, e.g. the F2 key for saving a Diffuse map so you can view it in your 3D software and get back to painting.)

    Also, for presentation purposes its usually better to have the face upright...but whatever floats your boat!
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    I think I shot myself in the foot then with a 45 degree angle for the face T_T

    @praetus: I can definitely move the goggles since they're not welded in.
  • oobersli
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    oobersli polycounter lvl 17
    any reason why your presentation page of the model has about 80% unused space? why not cut off the sides of it and focus more on the model.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    WIP image heh. Model is DEFINITEly not done yet.
  • artquest
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    artquest polycounter lvl 13
    Hey man, I'd really suggest taking another look at your character. I don't get the engineer vibe from him much at all. I don't think the tools read well enough to telegraph the tinkering/inventive mentality that you're going for.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    It's kinda changed from the typical Gnome-y engineer to like . . . a Blood elf War Machine forger, someone who constructs all the ballistae, arcane golems (hammer and chisels), and does combat support when possible (Petal mortat).

    I guess in regards to the tools reading, is it a silhouette / focal thing? In hindsight on the model, they are tucked away and have the same local color as the bags, so they kinda disappear.

    My hesistance, to be specific, is drastically changing the silhouette to the point where it's not what it was supposed to be by adding a lot more "greebles."

    If I did add more/replace with more Gear-y props/armor, I feel like I might lose the Blood Elf aspect like I did before with my second "final" idea b4 I got to this one.

    GRawghghg!! Wish I could poke someone on the WoW team about this, but that'd be cheating. Though I can't assume making something like this FOR work is any easier.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    @artquest: I'll finalize a first draft of the texture or at least the parts that I think won't go through terrible amounts of change.

    And then afterwards do a paintover of the concept to problem solve the issues.
  • ozzy310
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    ozzy310 polycounter lvl 8
    Not sure if its too late but you should look over your UV's. There are a few things you can cut in half such as the face, chest the thing in the back giving yourself more space assuming its not going to be symmetrical.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    I'll go about mirroring the UVs on the non focal elements (petals, bag etc), though I'm gonna keep the non symmetry on the face since I want to make that detailed assymetrically so it doesn't all look monotone.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    http://p3d.in/bunxH

    Model updated in the above link.

    Definitely having difficulty with all the gold accents in terms of both what hue/value the highlight should be, as well as the shadows.

    Something feels off about the whole rendering atm, but I can't put my finger on it.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Baked out the Light Gradient Map.

    Moneky Wrench added. UVs adjusted and mirrored when appropriate. Added more resolution for the shoulders, etc.

    NOT SHOWN: Slapped on the Color Balance Adjustment Layer in Photoshop to literally add colors to the shadows and adjust my highlights and midtones. I'll save that for later since I'm assuming the base texture is more important.

    Could definitely use help, feel like I'm hitting my "Skill Wall" again.

    5959 triangles. I am REALLY pushing against the wall here ><

    z1Opy.jpg
    H0x4t.jpg
    jdzsn.jpg
  • linkov
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    linkov polycounter lvl 10
    I'm not really into characters that much, so this should be taken with a grain of salt I guess, but anyway, another 2 cents from me.

    belfop.jpg

    ps and seriously stop with presentation crap for the moment. that backdrop is awful quality, not to mention its too bright to present that particular character. something darker, but not too much, would suffice.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    OH MY GOSH! Thank you for the paintover.

    And yeah, that BG is going. Sorry! :(
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    @linkov: Implemented your changes

    Update from tonight.

    Regarding the hair though, Think I'll tackle that later. I was originally trying to do a Tin-Tin Fro, but it looks like I'll need some carefully placed hair planes.

    http://p3d.in/XKuDG

    jztzY.jpg
  • silence44
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    silence44 polycounter lvl 7
    Looking really nice!! Before you start to detail the texture, definitely check out this guy if you haven't seen his work yet!
    http://gardenturtle.blogspot.com/
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    HAHahaha, someone on Team Awesome Horse gave me the same link!

    Been using that for like polish and color extraction. Been having a heck of a time convincing myself that the gold I was painting was "gold enough."
  • artquest
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    artquest polycounter lvl 13
    I really like where this character is going! Very nice style so far. I took some time this morning and did a paint over for ya(hopefully it gives you some ideas). I went a little overboard on the particle effects but I really thought it would help push the idea of the magic cannon being a part of his equipment.

    Gotta ask though, what is that thing in his mouth? I can't tell and it's kind distracting from his cool face.

    Some design philosophy that might help:

    - Cap things off with trim! We do this in the real world very often. I.E. Crown molding in a house helps make it look fancy.

    - Contrast! His shirt being white made his tool bags receed. Making the backdrop darker now pops out his equipment and his hair, making them a bit easier to read. Also try adding a bit of purple to the darks in the red areas. It will help it pop more.

    - He was kinda scrawny looking so to match the WoW design feeling I scaled up his arms and chest a bit.

    - More gems because blood elves are fancy and magical!!!

    - And last but not least... Exaggerate shapes a little more(especially trim pieces).

    Hope it helps!

    P.S. I got lazy on the rear paintover :P

    ibzo5y6uMYZBWP.jpg
  • Add3r
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    Add3r polycounter lvl 11
    The paintover that Art Quest just posted is pretty damn fantastic. Those green particle style connections between the character and object would be sick, though difficult to place effectively and not make it look totally cliche lol. The amount of improvement and placing/implementing critique throughout this thread and project has been inspirational! Nice job so far on the textures, they could still use some more love, like shown in the paintovers, but it is DEFINITELY moving along very nicely :D Cant wait to see the submission! I bid you goodluck, its fierce competition (have a couple of friends doing both character and environments as well).
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    There's other people doing characters!?

    Oh_Bother____by_Lord_Zasz.jpg
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    @Artquest: Your paintover has been ingested with warm appreciation. ANd mostly implemented.

    Today was a hair assault. Trying to figure out a proper solution wihtout killing polygons, because hair costs triangles!

    Looks decent at a distance right now, but the close-up leaves much to be desired.

    Could use some pointers on this end, since hair is a fairly new subject to me :/

    TiPcb.jpg
  • artquest
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    artquest polycounter lvl 13
    @Artquest: Your paintover has been ingested with warm appreciation. ANd mostly implemented.

    Today was a hair assault. Trying to figure out a proper solution wihtout killing polygons, because hair costs triangles!

    Looks decent at a distance right now, but the close-up leaves much to be desired.

    Could use some pointers on this end, since hair is a fairly new subject to me :/

    TiPcb.jpg

    Glad it helped! It's looking great so far. Keep it up man, I'm rooting for ya!

    Can you post an image of the actual B&W alpha mask that you painted? That's where most of the magic happens when it comes to hair. Also you'll notice that the pandas in WoW use poly hair and have ditched alpha. I Know that isn't an option for you but what I mean to say is that alpha hair always looks terrible from close up unless you have a high enough resolution texture to keep it from being blurry/pixelated so try not to worry too much about it.

    Also, if you could post a 3 quarter close up of the face I can show you some quick anatomy fixes that will help. You've got the structures of the face mostly correct but a few of the locations are a bit off.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    @Artquest: So . . . commit to the alpha plane hair because I have no choice or . . ?

    Anyways, here are the images you wanted.

    Q9PLr.jpg

    QDJXx.jpg
  • lotet
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    lotet hero character
    looks great, keep at it!
  • artquest
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    artquest polycounter lvl 13
    Well if you don't have enough polygons left in your budget then you've gotta stick to the alpha planes. in which case I suggest painting with 100% opacity and making crisp, clean, and rather large shapes in your alpha like this (maybe even with less detail):

    ibdwIKPWqEVvph.jpg

    But if you do have the polygons just model the hair and texture it as geometry at 100% opacity. :D


    Few anatomy things:

    -- Nasolabial fold connects at the top of the nostrils.

    -- Try to get the planes of the face a bit more in your model.

    -- His chin seems to be non existent, see if you can bring it out a bit more.

    -- Moved eyes a bit closer together and altered the shape so he doesn't look "sad."

    -- Majority of the mass of the "eye bags" should be on the outside.

    -- Nostrils aren't usually flared that much.

    -- Moved the mouth up a little bit to make more room for the chin/jaw.

    After you move all this stuff It makes his face look quite a bit bigger so you will probably have to scale his face down a bit so it fits with the rest of the skull/body.

    ibiJyTWtXdPDBa.jpg

    Oh and my co worker suggested that you should put his back cannon at a bit of an angle instead of straight up and down. :D
  • Stvv
    Hey,

    I love how it is turning out, though I'm a bit concerned by the lack of "Engineer" qualities. I don't picture a guy with a cannon on his back being Blood Elf or an Engineer (if it is intended on being a cannon that is). But here is some nitpick feedback lol. It's a bit harsh, I don't mean it that way, that's just the way I write feedback.

    Review.jpg

    1. I feel that brown side is a little too "light". I added a simple (poorly done) 30% black layer with multiple and it looks a bit better. Blizzard really likes very dark creases.

    2. The cog shape on that cylinder thing looks a bit flat at the bottom.

    3. Most male blood elfs don't have necklaces, and an Engineer definitely would not have one. If he did it would be a key or a wrench or something trinkety.

    4. The handle to the screwdriver looks kind of like a chicken leg. I actually spent 5 minutes trying to figure out why he had a chicken leg on his armor. Then I clued in to the bottom of it.

    5. I have no idea what is in his mouth?

    6. The top of the bag is solid grey.

    7. The lines of the plate armour that touch his ribs at the bottom isn't straight and looks very jagged? Is it intended to be that way? If so it looks weird, and if it is suppose to be plate armour it doesn't have any depth.

    8. The bottom part of the wrench head and the adjuster look off, the gray for example does not touch the solid black of the ridged screwing part. There is also random brown rust but there isn't any rust on the other part. If you were to get rust on it, you would have it on both parts because it comes off screws. The adjuster is typically gray (or the same colour as the rest of it), though I guess nothing else is really real life lol... but it does look a little off being orange. The ridged part would probably not be solid black either.

    :thumbup:
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