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Laser Turret (Next-Gen)

polycounter lvl 11
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Dethling polycounter lvl 11
Hi,
after I did mostly hand painted low poly models in the past (http://fguentzler.daportfolio.com/gallery/890173) I decided to expand my skillset and going "Next-Gen". :)

After a lot back and forth I decided to take one of my old "scribbles" for it.

I already did a basic model and try to figure how I remove the toyisch look from it.

canon_by_dethling-d8a5fdc.jpg

My plan is to add more small details (rivets, bolts, cables etc.) to give the brain some size reference.

"Lore" Background:
This laser turret is used on trade-ships and by smugglers. It's retractable and covered by some armor plates (not visible on the model yet) if not in use.
Sizewise I would go with something about a high of 2 meters (~7 feets).

If someone has any suggestion how to make this model more real/belivable or submit the size better PLEASE feel free to post.

As I'm not so used to realistic models I need all input I can get to make it awesome. :)

Replies

  • PrimePriest
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    PrimePriest polycounter lvl 3
    I have few points concerning funcionality of the design.

    1) How would the turret rotate along Z axis (turn sideways)? The boxy-thingies on the sides seem to block any kind of movement in that direction.

    2) You mounted the gun on nice 2 beams with joints to allow for up and down rotation but then you restrict it with additional support over the top of the guns.

    As it stands now the turret would only be able to shoot forwards. Unless this is intentional I'd suggest rethinking funcionality of gun mounting points.
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    The turret is free to rotate around the Z-Axis.
    The support beam over the guns will also be moved when the turret went up/down.

    Here are two pictures which shows the turret movement and the retracted turret
    move_by_dethling-d8a63pv.jpg

    At the moment the turret can rotate free (360°) around the Z-Axis while moving +40°/-10° upd/down.
  • PrimePriest
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    PrimePriest polycounter lvl 3
    Aaah...the boxy-thingies rotate as well. Thanks for demo. I didn't notice that.
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    X-Mas is over and it's time to move on. :)

    The modelling is not yet completed (I want to make a state-of-the-art ingame model out of it, e.g. a turret for Star Citizen).


    I seperated the model in four parts:
    - Gun
    - Arm
    - Base
    - Mount


    My plan now is to take each of this parts, adding more details, creating the high poly of it and then bake it down.


    As I have to optimize my workflow for this I started with the easiest part of the turret, the weapon Arm.
    After some try & error I decided to break the arm down into the different parts, deleting duplicate parts and then do a exploded mesh bake for it:

    Show.jpg

    After I did the bake (Normals, Height and AO), I re-assambled the arm (by duplicating some objects).

    The next step would be to bring the arm into ndo to add more details (bolts, welding lines etc.), after this I will go to substance painter (and learn the tool^^).

    Finished, untextured arm:

    screen01.png

    2151 Verts and as it's WIP the textures are still 4096x4096
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Today I finished the high-poly mesh of the turrets base.
    Next will be setting up the UVs & explode the base, baking down the normals and then again some nDo magic. :)

    hp_render_by_dethling-d8c9c5g.jpg
  • Shrike
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    Shrike interpolator
    the problem with the model not looking believable is because nothing on it is real, and it dosnt follow any real function. When designing objects, #1 rule is Form follows function.
    if an industrial designer makes a monitor, everything exists only because it does something.

    If you make a rotating platform, put an engine, and a round platform, cut all the stuff that is not needed and serves no purpose. If you want to make mechanical arm, make it like a real mechanical arm. They use hydraulics, using oil, and they will in the future. Also you would need a third arm to control the weight. Use parts of real machines that carry your made up parts, thats often done and works well. just pick things from real machinery and change them a bit. if you want to make a laser cannon, get a real cannon and add some things of a real laser. If you want to make some kind of battery thing, take a real battery / generator, and put a real heat sink on it. Remember these guys doing these real objects probably put a thousandfold on thought into them than any concept artist did for his equivalent, so use that
    authenticity to your advantage + cut all that is not needed. Many of those real things look more sci-fi than anything made up.

    18b0bxkyeqbhljpg.jpg

    look how super sci-fi and authentic, and its real
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Shrike: Thanks for the feedback. I understand your point, but I really like the design so far.
    I will see if I can add some more realistic details to the wepaon and the mount-platform.

    Yesterday I did the bake for the base, it went good, except for the rounded parts. I got some really strange issues on the AO here (on the rounded parts).

    screen01_by_dethling-d8cefge.png
    (no ndo yet)

    I think these are issues due to some smoothing group problems. Can someone confirm it or tell me what it is (and how to avoid it^^)

    /solved (the problem was in the height maps, not the AO)
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Yesterday I finished the bake of the turrets base part.

    base_by_dethling-d8cj6h2.jpg

    Still no details via nDo added (next step).
    Next will be the redesign of the weapon itself. While I like the general style of it, I want to update the silhouette to get a more "realistic" form (e.g. exchange the big block at the end).
    Not really sure what form it will take, but let's see. :)
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Playing around with the design of the top part.

    Deployed:
    render_by_dethling-d8cp1im.jpg

    Retracted:
    render_down_by_dethling-d8cp1ph.jpg

    Still not happy with it, but I think it's a good start. Still not final...
    (Maybe I have to alter the base a little bit to get it in line withe the updated top design...)
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    After some iterations I came up with this change:

    render_block_by_dethling-d8cq9eb.jpg

    I'm not really happy with the lower part, no clue how to make the mount looking good. :(
    If anyone has any idea, critics or tips feel free to post it ;)
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Did some more itterations, mesh cleaning and optimization today:
    render_block_v2_by_dethling-d8cud98.jpg

    Simple mechanic animation: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3CJrD1Fk9Q[/ame]

    I think some things will change further down the road, but the basic form and mechanic is set (despite it looks a little different to the initial one^^)
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    I decided to create several small details (like bolts, vents etc.), so my first "kit".
    I used these to add more details to the turret.
    render5_by_dethling-d8d3nhy.jpg

    So far the details are not added to the turret mesh but simply put onto it to see what's looking good and what not.

    Next step will be to get the final details and then merge the "floating" parts and the turret part into clean meshes.
    My plan is to get this done over the weekend so I can start the next week with the high poly model.

    Comments & Crits welcome :)
  • kary
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    kary polycounter lvl 18
    Steady progress on the secondary details, some of what Shrike says still rings true for me. Your deploy animation is very cool, but it feels a bit light (almost as if this is a miniature instead of something with a lot of weight). Perhaps some of the classics would help -- a small doodle of a human figure for scale ;).

    Modeling looks good, secondary shapes are interesting. A quick colour paintover would be nice to see where you intend to take it.
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Cleaned the mesh today and did a quick material "paintover" (colors aren't final yet, but I want to keep it "colorfull" and not the "usual" grey steel, with grey bolts:
    color_by_dethling-d8dm0o6.jpg

    The model consists of seven different objects and I plan to use ~ 3 Texturemaps:
    color_object_by_dethling-d8dm0zr.jpg

    As usual comments & critics welcome. :)

    Edit: Vert count so far: 23.833
  • EosOfOrcus
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    EosOfOrcus polycounter lvl 4
    i love it. I think i'll use some parts as a ref for my project
  • ghaztehschmexeh
    Please please do not use that colour scheme. It's really garish. I like the design of the turret though, reminds me of eve-online.
  • .Wiki
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    .Wiki polycounter lvl 8
    Please please do not use that colour scheme. It's really garish. I like the design of the turret though, reminds me of eve-online.
    The colorsheme can look nice when it´s applied to bigger forms. On those small forms it just looks noisy.
    You can take a look at the homeworld taiidan ships. They used the same colors but in larger distribution.
  • ghaztehschmexeh
    .Wiki wrote: »
    The colorsheme can look nice when it´s applied to bigger forms. On those small forms it just looks noisy.
    You can take a look at the homeworld taiidan ships. They used the same colors but in larger distribution.

    Yeah, I think it'd look better if one colour was more largely more dominant that the other, like the ships you mentioned. I'm still not a fan of it as a colour scheme, but it'd work better that way.
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Did made so much progress this week due to a cold. :poly118:

    Cleaned the meshes and did the UV Layout for all for parts:

    uv_presentation_by_dethling-d8eage1.jpg

    Next will be to create the high poly of the base, the parts and the canon itself, once done the baking will start. (The highpoly and bake for the arm is already done)
  • CandyStripes05
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    CandyStripes05 polycounter lvl 9
    is this meant to be in some way modular? with "upgradable parts" that can be swapped out?

    that's the only reason I can think of for not having it on one texture map. I get you want more detail etc but would a studio have 3 different texture sheets for this one model that isn't that big in scale? (serious question, trying to learn some things myself)

    Dethling wrote: »
    render_block_v2_by_dethling-d8cud98.jpg

    I like the simplicity of the base vs. your original design that had a lot of random blocky objects that distracted from the gun itself. Sometimes all it needs is paint :P
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    The idea was indeed to make it modular. I'm sill not sure about the texture of the base and arm, maybe I will add them into one sheet
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Today I finished the high poly version of the turret and did a color/material overhaul. Some edges are a little sharp (especailly at the smaller details) but I think it will work.

    Hopefully I will get my new RAM this day, then I will run the bakes. :)

    Highpoly.jpg

    Highpoly_color.jpg
  • HAWK12HT
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    HAWK12HT polycounter lvl 12
    Hi, so far design is looking slick and neat. I would suggest you add some wiring and tightly packed network of pipes ( hydraulic fluid ). Also the arms that hold the top part of weapon look weak given the fact that weapons have recoil (in your case laser) but still what kind, Ion cannon, pulse cannon, rapid pew pew laser fire or Gauss laser cannon. Try adding a hydraulic cylinder type stuff between the arms and somewhat at the middle point of weapon muzzle. That will surely make it more grounded in terms of design.



    https://www.google.com.pk/search?q=hydraulic+cylinder&biw=1920&bih=969&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=6JjAVOPNO4H1UtyEgLgO&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Thanks.
    I will definitely add more small details (cables, pipes etc.) using nDo.
    Regarding the arm: I got a lot of similar feedback and already thinking of how I can incorporate it.
    As the turret should be retractable it will be difficult to make major changes to the moving parts. Also the turret is meant to be used in space (so no gravity) and have no significant recoil as it's meant to be a energy weapon.
    But I will see how I get the "arms" a little tougher.
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Did the first texture approache yesterday and get some really nasty butterfly effects and mirrored normals in substance painter. :(
    So I will redo the UV maps today, eliminating the middle seam.
    I will also use this to redo the arm and merge it into one object with the base.

    I have also one question regarding substance painter, I tried to create the texture for the base with it and got multiple textures sets (one for every material). Is there a way to export the whole texture of one object (consiting of multiple materials) into one set of texture sheets?

    2nd Question: Is there a way to apply decals/text to a model and also use mirrored UVs? Let's say I have a Police car and use mirrored UVs for the doors. I can't put the decals directly on the diffuse/albedo as the would be flipped on one side.
    My idea would be to add a small poly floating over the door and then add the decal to it.
    Did this methode is feasible or are there other methods?
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Finished the new arm. the goal was to make it heavy and matching more to the rest of the turret:
    new_arm_by_dethling-d8f7n6q.jpg
  • Jerc
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    Jerc interpolator
    Mirrored UVs/Normal maps should not be an issue with Painter. From what app are you exporting and using what format?
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Im using 3ds Max for the modelling, export to .obj & .fbx and used xnormal for the baking.

    Meanwile I redid the UV, adding the new arm two the base texture sheet and avoided middle-seams.

    base_uv_by_dethling-d8fe67v.jpg

    Anyone knows a trick how to add decals to mirrored items without getting mirrored decals/text?
  • mjeruzal
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    mjeruzal polycounter lvl 5
    You can add some floating geometry on it with decal and transparency mask OR just select mirrored polygon (modifier must be applied) which is supposed to have decals on it and place it somewhere else in UV space.

    Quick example of what I meant (ofc, you'll need better layout than mine :P):
    MgjSvDp.png
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Did the bake today and I'm quite happy with the new design & bake:
    screen02_by_dethling-d8fh9qc.png
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    And the next one, the weapon parts:
    screen01_by_dethling-d8fitf3.png
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Damn.. I forgto to split the UVs where I have a smoothing split... and back to start..
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Did a new bake today, all UVs were split by smoothing group and still got the Normal groves :(

    screen01_by_dethling-d8fpd8k.png

    Has anyone an idea why?
    I used xnormal to bake out a tanget and object space normal, both have this issue.

    Here is my low poly .obj file: http://a360.co/15MSleU
  • remotecrab131
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    remotecrab131 polycounter lvl 5
    Dethling wrote: »
    Did a new bake today, all UVs were split by smoothing group and still got the Normal groves :(

    You should check out some EarthQuake's post, will be very helpful for your current issue.

    Here:

    http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107196


    Thou it seems like you've done the proper... then I think this would be caused by the projection method or the cage. Usually when the hard edges are made, it should not have the pixel grooves.
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Thanks a lot.
    The post helped me a lot and I found my problem: The cage was totally screwed up. :(

    So next: re-explode the mesh, create a proper cage and rebake, let's see how it works.

    Even if this project already took me a lot of time, I already learned a lot and hopefully get this to an awesome portfolio piece
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Got a clean normal bake this time and did a first texture with dDo:

    screen02_by_dethling-d8fvbf4.png
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Today I finished the base textures of the turret


    presentation_by_dethling-d8gadkh.jpg

    Next will be to add a "decal object" with some texts, signs etc.

    Modelled in 3D Max, textured with dDo2 & Photoshop
    Vert-Count: 18.473
    Textures: three 2048x2048 (base+arm, gun, attachments), Albedo, Metall, Normal, AO, roughness, spec
    Presentation: UE4
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Added the "decal objects" and call this project "DONE"

    presentation_by_dethling-d8gadkh.jpg

    I was a very intressting project and I learned a lot while working on it.
    Comments & critics are welcome
  • KittenMittns
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    KittenMittns polycounter lvl 7
    Fantastic work! I really like the color you went with.
  • TAG_Utter
    Fantastic do you have it for sale?
  • Dethling
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    Dethling polycounter lvl 11
    Thank you and no, not for sale, sorry.
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