I always liked that quote. Was my wallpaper for a while. But it's better with a dragon.

Originally Posted by Vio

I don't think its that people are saying uni is useless, I certainly wouldn't, I had some fantastic tutors who often come here. The problem is they don't make all the rules and there are still academic traditions that might not fit so well in today's world as they used to.

The thing is, a lot of people are finding ways to get into this industry without going to uni, you could quite easily do that if you were a regular on polycount from age 16 for example. There is so much to learn here and its totally free. In other industries there are also shifts to vocational training, apprenticeships and so on where they get total focused education and they often have a lot of success when they finish but they already know people in the industry and know how to do the job to industry standards.

I was going to make a retort but actually I agree with pretty much everything you said. I would argue that these days it's hard to measure educational value, while we have plenty of success stories from polycount's teachings it can currently only be compared to other self-taught disciplines, which is definitely not the status quo for all skill types.

Really it's society in general where these shifts and disconnects are making it difficult. The world requires that you get a job so now the whole point of entering academia is to get one. Learning stops being about betterment for its own sake and whether or not it has value rests on just how much industry and academia get along.

TLDR yes I'm sure we can all agree that both industry and education have made little effort to work towards a future that benefits each other and gives hope to all those who participate. Then again I don't know how well run Starfleet Academy is either.

Hey there,
i had read the first few posts an i accept partly with the problem of the industry, if you want to work at AAA Games but if you new in the industry, like me, you have to start small. I have many little jobs with a small pay. On the other hand im 22 years old, i dont need that much money at this time.
It is'nt realy hard to get access to the industy if you not lazy and still talk to people and show them your passion for Gameart and gaming.

And still learn! the industry, the Hardware and tools are still growing.
Ohh and still have a acceptable Portfolio. ;D

If you want to work on AAA games, i hope that you have an Outstanding and Awesome Portfolio and know the right workflows and People.

I hope this help someone.

here is my portfolio
Portfolio
not up to date becouse i dont have that much time to update but if i have done my School im going to

This is a great thread about what you can do to get yourself a job.

I have yet to get a job since being out of school and I was one of the few that put in 15 hour days working on my art. Everyone else would come in late. I have applied at 165 places so far for anything from Character, Prop Texturing ect. I'm still looking for a full time job as a artist,

But in the mean time I work a 9 hour day to pay my bills then I come home and put in another 8 hours working on 3d so that my skills will only get better. I would say that my work is not high quality like some amazing artist but its not horrible ether. I can always get better and I plan on always working hard and add more to my portfolio till I get a job.

You should do the same thing keep working hard and sooner or later you will be able to find a job modeling.

You can check out my portfolio too I think my problem is I don't have enough art to show and all my models have been done high res then game res. I should do a high res model and render it high res maybe that would help me.

http://www.roderickw.com

Hi!

Thank you for your estimate.

Unfortunately we (2 freelancers) are just starting out with this project and we need to make a lot of assets to create a catalog.
We are not in the position to afford anything above 90 USD / asset as of now.
If you know anyone who is junior to you who might be interested in this project please let me know

Again, thank you very much for your time and maybe we can work together in the future or on a different project.

Regards

Now I know you're probably asking: Wait, who posted this? What's the job? Would this be less than minimum wage?

Cave Johnson - Who wants to make $60? -...

4 months later. Well, you were right, it's not impossible, clearly, and certainly not for any reason I stated in the OP. Unfortunately luck hasn't been kind enough to reward me for my efforts so far. It gets depressing when you do put in a lot of effort but are left wondering if you're even getting anywhere, or if you can even be confident in your own talent when there's not much to show for it.

I'm sure others will say I'm not putting in enough effort or maybe just don't have any talent, but it certainly doesn't feel that way (effort-wise at least) since I'm spending pretty much most of my waking hours in front of the computer learning new things or trying to build new stuff.

To give some sense of what I thought was some progress, let me say that when I first made this topic, I only knew how to use Maya and Photoshop to make objects. Now I use Maya, Photoshop, ZBrush, xNormal, CrazyBump, nDo2, and UDK. Though, whether one can even call that progress is up in the air I suppose.

But yeah, it's not impossible. Though, I don't think I can wait any longer to hope something will occur, as I kind of need money to pay bills and those pesky student loans.

From looking at your work I'd say that you have a pretty good chance of landing a job. I've seen people with worse portfolios get jobs and I think it's all a matter of time. Don't quit working on your stuff though, that would be giving up! Create new things, improve on what you have or whatever.. Just keep at it.

4 months is not much. Before I got my first job as a 3d artist I had to apply for jobs for about 9 months or so. It's taken years for other people... I know from experience that a job will come sooner or later if you just keep at it. (Yeah, it sounds cheesy but it's true!)

Originally Posted by Soul_of_Solace

4 months later. Well, you were right, it's not impossible, clearly, and certainly not for any reason I stated in the OP. Unfortunately luck hasn't been kind enough to reward me for my efforts so far. It gets depressing when you do put in a lot of effort but are left wondering if you're even getting anywhere, or if you can even be confident in your own talent when there's not much to show for it.

I'm sure others will say I'm not putting in enough effort or maybe just don't have any talent, but it certainly doesn't feel that way (effort-wise at least) since I'm spending pretty much most of my waking hours in front of the computer learning new things or trying to build new stuff.

To give some sense of what I thought was some progress, let me say that when I first made this topic, I only knew how to use Maya and Photoshop to make objects. Now I use Maya, Photoshop, ZBrush, xNormal, CrazyBump, nDo2, and UDK. Though, whether one can even call that progress is up in the air I suppose.

But yeah, it's not impossible. Though, I don't think I can wait any longer to hope something will occur, as I kind of need money to pay bills and those pesky student loans.

I know how you feel, ive been looking for a job the past few months too and also starting in dec ill be needed to pay back my student loans. You just have to keep trying and working on art. It will be hard but you just gotta push though it and sooner or later all the hard work will pay off!

Originally Posted by biofrost

I know how you feel, ive been looking for a job the past few months too and also starting in dec ill be needed to pay back my student loans. You just have to keep trying and working on art. It will be hard but you just gotta push though it and sooner or later all the hard work will pay off!

I'm in the same boat haha and kinda depresses and motivates me. Just keep working on your portfolio and keep posting on polycount Also remember that some of it comes down to just timing and connections. So dont stop making those

After University it took me a year to get my first job. Granted I was offered one before I graduated, but funding for the project fell through, and my position was no longer available (that really knocked me back a few months as I didn't apply while I was waiting for the project to start). So keep at it if it's what you really want to do. I know plenty of people who've taken 2 years to get something after University! But they got there with perseverance and continued hard work on their portfolio.

I don't know if this is the best place to throw this down, but a friend of mine made this:

http://www.indiedevmap.com/

Same as gamedevmap, but for indie companies, could be useful for people wanting jobbies.

If anyone is finding it hard to get a job with no requirements on location and salary then they are simply not good enough and need to work more on improving themselves. A game industry job is like any profession, it takes time and a lot of hard work.

Honestly if I have learned anything from looking at games industry/university applicants its that everyone expects something with no concept of the time and focus it takes to become a valuable professorial.

Just because I have read books about space for over 10 years it doesn't mean I walk up to NASA and expect a job. I have driven a car for over 10years but that doesn't mean I could be a professional rally driver. Just because you have used 3dsmax for 10years it doesn't mean you can become a game industry artist.

If you want to be a professional you need to treat it as a profession. Looking at what skills you need to know and what is expected of you.

To anyone out there struggling to get a job, if you can't get one your not good enough. The solution? Work harder! Not enjoying working hard? Think of another career!

While a lot of young kids these days have a skewed perspective on what real "hard work" is, I do want to note that working smarter is more important than working harder. Just because you are spending 14 hours a day "learning and practicing" it doesn't mean you will get better. I would definitely focus on the "art" side of this craft rather than the technical knowledge.

Here at DE, the specifics of software experience are seldom a deciding factor when looking for a right candidate.

^

I haven't found anything yet, no luck on the job hunt, but I know its not impossible. I know the flaws in my work and what I need to fix to become a better artist. I think that you need to just improve yourself and focus on you and your work instead of a job. I used to make art intending to get a job, and my work suffered, I can see a HUGE improvement in my work by just changing my mindset to just making art for bettering myself. Anyways, it's not impossible

Originally Posted by biofrost

I know how you feel, ive been looking for a job the past few months too and also starting in dec ill be needed to pay back my student loans. You just have to keep trying and working on art. It will be hard but you just gotta push though it and sooner or later all the hard work will pay off!

This might be because you only have about 4 pieces in your portfolio. Most of which are very simple and small. Keep making moar! ;)

It took me 3 years of flopping about before I really put my nose to the grindstone and said "I will have a job by this time next year" - I missed the deadline by about a month but I discovered what hard work really was. In the mean time I was doing IT work for about $8 an hour to pay off my loan.

I think another part of the feeling is the sense that I'm always "playing catch up" when it comes to learning. Even when I do feel that I've learned something new or integrated a different feature into the workflow, it still feels as if that's not really an accomplishment, because I'm sure tons of others have been using those new features or skill sets for long periods of time already.

Well, I certainly hope "I will have a job by this time next year", but I won't hold my breath for it to be in art.

Hoping wont get you anywhere.

Originally Posted by Soul_of_Solace

I've already sacrificed a personal/social life in pursuit of my goals and am not being distracted by such things. But again, that's what can lead to constant second guessing as you devote more and more time into your work, but it never seems to pay off.

Originally Posted by Soul_of_Solace

4 months later.

Originally Posted by Soul_of_Solace

Well, I certainly hope "I will have a job by this time next year", but I won't hold my breath for it to be in art.

How much finished artwork have you done since May 19th ?

Originally Posted by Hazardous

How much finished artwork have you done since May 19th ?

this made me think back - In that time I produced 9 player armors (boy & girl versions), 2 pets and a mount. All this working mostly 8 hours a day 5 days a week, significantly less than every waking hour like the OP claims.

Since may 19th:

I made every 3d object in our concept trailer (4 environments, fx, 7 characters)
3 furniture sets
built 3 websites
concepts for a haunted house
a set of hair styles for ps home
set of wings for ps home
lots and lots of documents

started up a studio


and i feel like i've been slacking

Originally Posted by Hazardous

How much finished artwork have you done since May 19th ?

My freelancing since that day:

357 individual drawings, same client

at least 30 hard surface parts (not counting hoses, nuts & bolts) for military simdev, same client

4 small drawing freelance, 3 clients + 1 now on 2nd installment

about to discuss small drawing freelance for new client soon

For myself: about 25 portfolio level 2d pieces

Originally Posted by Soul_of_Solace

No worries. But still, you have to admit the industry at this moment is not in the most healthy of states.

I disagree. I think the industry is ever evolving and changing, but its vitality and health has never been stronger. I think the fact that companies are hiring more strictly and carefully is a smart thing. First, Companies will hold on to great talent. And, second,the lack of *frivolous hiring will curtail mass layoffs later. Companies are also starting to hold on to core teams while outsourcing the rest. If you want a job, better art is the key. Bottom line! And that's what just about everyone here is saying.*

Originally Posted by Hazardous

How much finished artwork have you done since May 19th ?

Well, to start off, a week after I started this thread I underwent hip surgery, which pretty much removed the month of June from anything productive. Everything else on my website that's posted since then is "finished" work, if it can be called that, of course, there's a lot of unfinished work, experiments, art tests, and such that took up time but aren't posted because they aren't good enough to be.

Originally Posted by IchII3D

If anyone is finding it hard to get a job with no requirements on location and salary then they are simply not good enough and need to work more on improving themselves. A game industry job is like any profession, it takes time and a lot of hard work.

Honestly if I have learned anything from looking at games industry/university applicants its that everyone expects something with no concept of the time and focus it takes to become a valuable professorial.

Just because I have read books about space for over 10 years it doesn't mean I walk up to NASA and expect a job. I have driven a car for over 10years but that doesn't mean I could be a professional rally driver. Just because you have used 3dsmax for 10years it doesn't mean you can become a game industry artist.

If you want to be a professional you need to treat it as a profession. Looking at what skills you need to know and what is expected of you.

To anyone out there struggling to get a job, if you can't get one your not good enough. The solution? Work harder! Not enjoying working hard? Think of another career!

Damn, great words of advice there!! Its so simple but something I didn't realize about myself until recently. I always felt bad for myself thinking "why can't I get a job??".. but when it really comes down to it, I'm just NOT good enough... yet.
So, I only need to work harder at the thing I love to do in order to get employed. Simple