Tiles, there is no absolute way to juge which one is a better way.

And that`s the point, that`s what i have meant. As a software developer you are best suited to fit as much needs as possible. You already have a hotkey oriented UI. What misses is a good graphical, more button oriented UI.

It seems that current users are highly accustomed using hotkeys,

Sure, because the hotkey UI is the main UI at the moment. Means you end in users that prefers hotkeys. But you cut off your software from the rest by that. It is very unlikely that somebody who is used to work with a graphical UI will pick up your software when there is no graphical UI that suits his needs.

That a graphical UI makes much much work is no question. The question is if it is worth it.

Anyways, i think i have said what i wanted to say. As told, it`s your decision. I just wanted to give some food for thought here. I am green with everything you decide. Good luck with further development

Hey IStonia,

Thanks for the speedy update (as usual), and thanks for your fast reply. I LOVE the streamline tools by the way. I agree, streamline tools are the number one thing that is setting VoidWorld apart from the rest.

I tried all of your suggestions. Some work great, and others I still don't understand. Thanks for taking the time to walk me through it.

I made a mistake explaining that I couldn't assign a key to the MMB in order to toggle the display. I meant the MMWheel, not the actual depressing of the MMB. I don't see the MMW available in the hotkey assignment dropdown. I would like to be able to roll the wheel forward and backward while holding ctrl + alt to roll through the display of an object (like Silo). I would also like to assign the MMW+Shift to increase or decrease the soft selection percentage. And lastly, I would like to assign MMW+Ctrl+Shift to relax selection. Is that possible?

The extrude functionality of the streamline tool works fantastically! I had an old hotkeys setup that was breaking it for me. Also, I love how the translation hot-keys work, and how you don't have to use the handles! But thanks for adding the option to increase the size!

Lastly... I still can't figure out how to slide a partial loop. I can either slide one edge, or the whole loop, but not a partial loop (more than one edge). The default Streamline Hot-Key I'm using is "G", which is Loop Select/Slide Edges. If I don't have an edge selected and hit "G", it will slide the single edge I'm hovering over (which is cool). If I have one or more edge selected and hit "G", it selects the whole loop, then allows me to slide (also cool). BUT... what if I don't want to select the whole loop first? I just want it to slide what edges I have selected. How do I do that? My suggestion is to remove the Select Loop from the Slide functionality of the G key? I know selecting a loop and sliding is super speedy, which is great, but I think I would rather double-click the loop, then slide it so I can have the partial-loop-slide functionality... unless I'm missing something.

Thanks again! I hope these comments are helping, and not causing grief. The software is shaping up nicely!
-3Dtoons

Fair enough, you want to focus on the rest, I can understand.

One tool I find myself wishing I had a lot is an extrude which uses the mouse to decided the direction exactly like Axis_Move.

Originally Posted by Tiles

You already have a hotkey oriented UI. What misses is a good graphical, more button oriented UI.

Maybe one could put it this way...
I guess if you are using any other SubD-Modeller that you are also using exclusively buttons, right? Could it then be that you are not perfectly aware of options and sometimes tight limits in the hotkey-driven workflow of these existing applications?

VW fills in many niches for users who prefer this workflow while Modo for instance with its tons of buttons seems very suitable for toolbar-users. While one here can also use hotkeys the ton of GUI one has to deal with at all time is something I personally don't like.

I think it is a cleverer concept to place Vw as a speciality-product. There's already a lot of apps which try to be good for everyone but in fact fail with that mission.

I guess if you are using any other SubD-Modeller that you are also using exclusively buttons, right?

Not really. The one extreme is as bad as the other extreme. I use what does the job best. Sometimes this is a hotkey. Sometimes this is a toolbar.

VW fills in many niches

Why fill a niche when you can have it all?

3dtoons: the default for sliding seperate elements is V MMB, I believe. not the best hotkey, but I haven't really figured out for myself where I want it yet, either.

MightyPea! Thank you! That's it!

As for the Graphic UI vs Hot-Key debate. I occasionally do freelance character modeling. My time outside of my day-job is precious to me and my family, so any time spent freelancing needs to be short and quick for it to be worth my time. I usually get paid by the character, so the faster I can bust it out, the more I can make per hour, and the more time I get to spend NOT freelancing.

So to me, a graphical UI might look nice, and speed up the learning process of the program, but in the end, clicking on UI buttons over and over and over again is SLOW. Hot-keying streamline tools is lightning fast! Sure, your learning process might be slower, but the speed you gain after you have learned the program will easily make up for it. The speed of a modeling program is all about minimizing key-strokes, mouse movement, and mouse clicks. The less of those you have, the faster the program! That's exactly what the streamline tools are there for... speed!

you will never please everyone with the hotkey vs UI thing.
kinda arguing a familiar is better here, when that isn't true in all cases.

VW isn't hte only app to take this to extremes also.

take a look at a code editor like VIM, works way differnlty than most would expect, but since i got over the learning curve and bent it to my will, i work much much faster in it compared to a other IDE or code editor.

Originally Posted by 3dtoons

Hey IStonia,

I tried all of your suggestions. Some work great, and others I still don't understand. Thanks for taking the time to walk me through it.

I made a mistake explaining that I couldn't assign a key to the MMB in order to toggle the display. I meant the MMWheel, not the actual depressing of the MMB. I don't see the MMW available in the hotkey assignment dropdown. I would like to be able to roll the wheel forward and backward while holding ctrl + alt to roll through the display of an object (like Silo). I would also like to assign the MMW+Shift to increase or decrease the soft selection percentage. And lastly, I would like to assign MMW+Ctrl+Shift to relax selection. Is that possible?

Lastly... I still can't figure out how to slide a partial loop. I can either slide one edge, or the whole loop, but not a partial loop (more than one edge). The default Streamline Hot-Key I'm using is "G", which is Loop Select/Slide Edges. If I don't have an edge selected and hit "G", it will slide the single edge I'm hovering over (which is cool). If I have one or more edge selected and hit "G", it selects the whole loop, then allows me to slide (also cool). BUT... what if I don't want to select the whole loop first? I just want it to slide what edges I have selected. How do I do that? My suggestion is to remove the Select Loop from the Slide functionality of the G key? I know selecting a loop and sliding is super speedy, which is great, but I think I would rather double-click the loop, then slide it so I can have the partial-loop-slide functionality... unless I'm missing something.

-3Dtoons

V + MMB is a general slide tool. You can also use G + RMB to slide partial loop. Press G, RMB click the first edge, move cursor to another edge and RMB click and hold then drag.

StreamLine tools have WMB-Up and WMB-Down events. You can assign the display loop command to either of these events.

Is there a way to change the SmartTips popup colors/transparency?
And the radial menu transparency?

So... I think IStonia recently added Silo-like re-calculate symmetry that doesn't cut and re-weld the mesh. Where is that command located, and does it work on separate mesh islands that aren't connected in the middle (like a pair of boots)? I want to be able to select any symmetrical mesh and just hit "calculate symmetry". I swear I've found it before. I can't seem to find it now.

Oh, I'm able to get the "calculate symmetry from two vertices" working on meshes that have a center line. I guess I'm wondering how to get symmetry if there isn't a center line.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by GregD3

Is there a way to change the SmartTips popup colors/transparency?
And the radial menu transparency?

It is not possible to change SmartTips transparency. But it is possible for the others.


3dtoons: Edge mode > Geometry > Calculate Symmetry Topologically. It is easier than the vertex method. Both can do symmetry calculation for meshes that have or have no center line. But in the last neweast updates, this function is broken so you have to use an older update.

new update.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Downlo...-Jul-05-12.rar

Summary of changes:
* Symmetry handling is improved. Center line restriction is removed. In previous updates, many operations can not be performed along symmetry center line. They can now.
* Symmetry Calculation did not work in last two updates. It is fixed.
* some bugs in Object/Mesh pivot operation are fixed.
* A new streamline tool option. Edit > Customize > StreamLine Tools > Allow Event Action On Highlighted. It allows the program not to perform operation triggered by tool event on highlighted subobjects when this is no selection.
* Edit > Customize > StreamLine Tools > Copy/Past. It is a quick way to move tool settings from one tool to another.
* Some bugs in Retopo tools are found and fixed.
Thanks!

new update.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Downlo...-Jul-06-12.rar

Summary of changes:
* Two new basic streamline tools. Polygon_Extrude_Axis, Polygon_Extrude_Plane. Extrusion is moved along manipulator axis or plane base on curosr initial move direction or view anlge.
* Subobject mode > Geometry > Common Commands n Tools > Align, is improved. Snapping can be used to define alignment offset or radius.
* Geometry > Calculate Symmetry Topologically. It works in all modes. The program will look for edge selection as a calculation clue first. One or two selected edges are required. If that failed, the program will automatically search a center polygon or center edge base on selected symmetry axis and do the calculation.
Thanks!

new update.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Downlo...-Jul-07-12.rar

Summary of changes:
* 'Relax Selection' tool has a new option. If streamline tool option hotkey(default: Space) is pressed while performing this operation through a streamline tool, the relax strength will be decreased to 0.25.
* Subobject mode > Geometry > Common Commands n Tools > Lay On. Align object base on subobject snapping. Select the first subobject, select the second subobject, then exceute this command. If the second subobject is missing, highlighted subobject will be used.
Thanks!

new update.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Downlo...-Jul-08-12.rar

Summary of changes:
* 'Subobject mode > Geometry > Common Commands n Tools > Lay On' tool's orientation is corrected.
Thanks!

IStonia: Thank you very much for adding the symmetry by topology command! It has been working very well, even with meshes that have partial asymmetry in them.

Also, thanks for the relax option! I still need to adjust my hotkeys to try it, but it sounds like a great "finer detail" adjustment that I'm looking for.

I've been trying to use Nvil for an actual production piece. So far so good. I'll be sure to let you know if I hit any show stoppers.

You rock!
-ShaneO

new update.
http://www.digitalfossils.com/Downlo...-Jul-10-12.rar

Summary of changes:
* A bug in 'Boolean' tool is fixed.
* A bug in edge 'Loop Insert' tool is fixed. It may cause crash or error.
Thanks!

May i renew my request to put the settings folder into the /appdata/roaming directory instead of the documents folder? It is disturbing

Ah, forgot to ask, is there a way to save and load a custom UI layout? Means the colours and the arranged windows?

I'm having some issues with clipping. The viewport is acting like the object I'm working on is really small but it fills the entire grid area.

See first attached image.

Also when I rotate or move through the object, I get exploding polys.

See last 2 attached images.

Tiles: I will move it to .../AppDate folder in the formal release. For now just leave it as is.

GregD3: You can adjust the clip plane manually. Edit > Preference > Clip Plane.
What kind of action have you performed to have polys exploded? You may have set this option on by accident, Edit > Options > Vertex Transform Along Edges.

Out of curiosity, what are the merits in using this application over the number of other applications on the market right now (both pay and for free)? I am just curious as to what sets it apart or why one would be interested in using it to begin with.

=)

Originally Posted by Dataday

Out of curiosity, what are the merits in using this application over the number of other applications on the market right now (both pay and for free)? I am just curious as to what sets it apart or why one would be interested in using it to begin with.

=)

I would say streamline work flow and customization are the two major things that makes this application different from other application. When I started this post, I have no these concepts at all. Since then I have lots feed back which makes me to turn the development direction into making it a fast program. Of course, solid tool sets are the foundation.

Originally Posted by IStonia

GregD3: You can adjust the clip plane manually. Edit > Preference > Clip Plane.
What kind of action have you performed to have polys exploded? You may have set this option on by accident, Edit > Options > Vertex Transform Along Edges.

The clip plane and "exploding" polys only seem to happen when I have the current object selected. I'm not doing any kind of mesh editing, just moving the camera. It's hard to show with screenshots so here is a video that will hopefully help explain things more.

It works fine to me. You may have graphic card problem. All the renderings are handled by graphic card. Also the only thing makes it different between selected and unselected objects is the retopo state, Scene Explorer > Retopo Reference List > Retopo mode enalbed.