Reply
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
dralex789's Avatar
Old (#1)
Hey folks. I've been thinking for a while now about how I can learn and grow as an environment artist, specifically about listening to what others say about my work and how that influences the direction I take. I would like to, if people are interested work with members on this forum in an artistic social experiment to evolve an environment from start, to medium quality or even less. Ideally I would love the opportunity to work with a large community of talented individuals, and allow a really open ended idea to evolve over time based on the feedback from multiple people.

It will give me a great insight into how others perceive work, composition, story, while it will give the talented individuals from this community a chance to give more feedback than micro feedback on individual issues. Instead it would be encouraged that you talk with each other, talk to me, and share what you think of what the project is, and where it should go. I see this potentially as a learning experience for everyone involved.

I understand that this is a little out of the ordinary. Normally environments have story, or purpose before they are created, and while I don't want to start with a completely blank canvas, I would love to start very simple (interior, exterior) and proceed from there. This idea is my no means perfect, and I am posting here first to see what others think of this idea, and how it could be adjusted, so please I would love to hear your feedback, as this is an exercise in communication as much as it is anything else.

For how it would actually work, I would probably rely on screengrabs and renders from the UDK (What I am most familiar in). I've had quite a bit of environment experience, and can handle most material/particle/worldbuidling/lighting requirements. I do work, so this would only get updated on the weekend, so I would participate in discussion through the week and then make adjustments based off of what everyone participating is saying.

Again this is meant to be fast changing, low detail, open ended work. Completely reworking composition, content, goals, colors, setting. That would be entirely up to whoever chooses to participate. This specific thread is meant for discussion on what you guys feel about this idea, if you are interested, how constrained it should be (full environment vs single screen, story, setting etc). Looking forward to hearing what you guys think as I have a deep respect for members of this forum (and have had it for ages now, you folks helped me learn and become the artist I am today).

Thanks for your time reading this huge block of text!

Alex
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

DennisGlowacki's Avatar
Old (#2)
I was talking with a friend today about a similar idea for some sort of collaboration with limited time investments per collaborator.

I think whatever the project is it will require a strong leader presence and a lot of logistical planning.

Good Luck! I'll be watching (and participating if you get it going)
Offline , line, 88 Posts, Join Date Feb 2010, Location Chicago Send a message via Skype™ to DennisGlowacki  
   Reply With Quote

dralex789's Avatar
Old (#3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisGlowacki View Post
I was talking with a friend today about a similar idea for some sort of collaboration with limited time investments per collaborator.

I think whatever the project is it will require a strong leader presence and a lot of logistical planning.

Good Luck! I'll be watching (and participating if you get it going)
DennisGlowacki, thanks for writing! I'm glad someone noticed Thats great that you had a similar idea. My idea was to do things less planned out and more loose. Think of it as a gesture drawing, but instead, as an environment.

My biggest concern is how to limit scope initially. I think defining what the project is (interior, or exterior) is important, but I am unsure if it would be worth defining scope past that, for example a castle near the ocean. One one hand, it would be easier to give feed back and help narrow things down from a participant's perspective, but it would give less freedom.

I also think a more narrowed scope would allow for closer study of feedback and interaction, so that is the direction I am going, but we shall see. Still some thinking to do.
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

DennisGlowacki's Avatar
Old (#4)
If you keep it super loose it might evolve into cool unexpected directions. Or blow up ha.

Get some general guidelines going and test the waters. I could probably get a few noobs to contribute. ;) (which is also something you gotta worry about haha)
Offline , line, 88 Posts, Join Date Feb 2010, Location Chicago Send a message via Skype™ to DennisGlowacki  
   Reply With Quote

dralex789's Avatar
Old (#5)
Yeah thats the up and downside to the loose idea. I could literally start with a flat plane and an AO bake and it could go crazy. Or blow up yes. Less experienced artists are an interesting complication. I think that goes hand with what the scope will be.

If I leave the scope open completely open would cater less to in experienced artists. While they would have perhaps a more liberal input it could potentially make the project less stable. A more strict scope would allow them to focus on their input. Make it direct, and gain experience that way. I attended art school, and I have many friends int he industry that did not. One thing they did say they wish they had gotten was more experience giving critiques, and learning how to be constructive. I think I will type up a "practice" start and post it on here in the next few days. There will definitely be more from me

Thanks again for chiming in!
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

DennisGlowacki's Avatar
Old (#6)
Starting is probably one of the hardest parts here. Lots of initial questions to ask like:

Do you set a style (would it be cool to mix several styles? maybe it becomes abstract lol) ,

Scope (like you said single screen vs full environment),

Process (blockout or full assets from the start, concept/reference usage)

Software (I'm with you on udk ). What about for file sharing? dropbox, svn

Time and task expectations per collaborator


I look forward to what you come up with.
Offline , line, 88 Posts, Join Date Feb 2010, Location Chicago Send a message via Skype™ to DennisGlowacki  
   Reply With Quote

dralex789's Avatar
Old (#7)
The two of those that have crossed my mind more than anything were process and scope. However actually think we are thinking of two separate ideas

I believe what you thought I was describing was process where multiple people were creating the 3d artwork, which is a totally awesome idea (I had not thought of it in that way).

The process I was describing was more of a one sided thing. Rather than have multiple people contribute to the actual 3d work, my idea was instead to have them contribute communication, ideas, feedback, and just about everything but. The idea of keeping it fast and simple would allow for rapid iteration.

A semi decent analogy would be one person describing a picture and another drawing it. The person drawing it learns how the other describes the picture, and has to interpret that on his own, while the other learns where emphasis on descriptions need to go, and what others interpret what he says as.

My goal for this would be something similar, where I would create based off of others inputs. Not sure if this is still something you were interested in (though to be honest I am interested in your idea a tad too) but that was what I was hoping to achieve. That way the community, or whoever was participating could focus on artistic vision, and communication (ie an Art director per say), and I would be able to focus entirely on listening, interpreting, and observing.
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

DennisGlowacki's Avatar
Old (#8)
Seems like a lot more reasonable goal!
Offline , line, 88 Posts, Join Date Feb 2010, Location Chicago Send a message via Skype™ to DennisGlowacki  
   Reply With Quote

Darkleopard's Avatar
Old (#9)
Ive just skimmed this because its 1:30am and i need to go to bed(i'll reread tomorrow), but this sounds really cool. I would love to be apart of something like this.

There is definitely a lot of things you'd been to sort out. People have very different ideas of the same object etc but i think you've already got a plan to sort that out. It would be nice to have maybe a couple more experienced people with a bunch of less experienced people but i would be afraid that the art would vary a lot in quality, but hey i guess where here to learn!

Will be following this
Offline , polygon, 520 Posts, Join Date Feb 2012, Location Australia  
   Reply With Quote

dralex789's Avatar
Old (#10)
Hey guys! I may have been silent for a few days but my brain has not stopped working!

Glad to see more interest, as the more people involved the better I think this will be, even this early. I am still turning lot of things over in my head (I don't see this starting for few weeks yet) but I did want to get some of the problems out in the open that I see, and perhaps get some feedback, but also add some possible solutions of my own.

-Problem 1: Process/Timing
One of the two large problems I really see with everything is how the whole process will work. Either it can be super structured, (ie 1 week of comments, 1 weekend of art from me with posts) then proceed, or the other would be really lose. Just doing things as I can, as people post comments, etc. It's a hard call because one method would allow for really great documentation, keeping track of things, etc, while the other seems very organic and would allow for a much more natural flow. The only other thing I think worth mentioning is the issue of development as time passes. The project cannot sit at the "what is he even doing" stage forever. It has to move forward, and progress. I do realize that creating isn't always progress, and removing things isn't always a step backwards, but it is something worth keeping in mind.

-Problem 2: Feedback. Since I will be working from comments from the community, communication is absolutely vital. Listening to responses, giving people opportunity to flesh out their opinions, and giving feedback of my own is going to really important. In this project, I want all people who are giving the art feedback to be heard equally, regardless of experience or skillset. Personally I think the best way for me to do this is to be on the ball with responses, summarizing and clarifying. This lends itself to the above structured template, where I can talk to everyone through the week, then at the end of the week summarize in a post, and then proceed from there. On top of that, I think if the project is fast and (making up a word here) "rapid-prototype-e-enough" then if people have contradicting views I can work on both (ie "that tree should be blue, that tree should be green") so I just texture both and present two separate images.

Problem 3: Documenting process. As I want this to be a learning experience for everyone, I would like to record my own thoughts and progress as well as comments somewhere.My solution is simply a blog. I have on already started, and when things get rolling I will keep it regularly updated. I will also be available through other means of communication if anyone is interested (skpye, email, messengers, etc).

Problem 4:Scope. This last one I am still turning over in my head over and over. I think its just going to come down to picking a relatively enclosed scope (interior, etc). I also think I would really like to nail a genre too. That could be all kinds scale as well. something specific like "sci-fi nature scene" or something really loose just like "nature". I will probably start with something loose and if no one takes it in an initial direction I will direct my art one way or another in the hopes of making comments more accessible. I do personally like the idea of very broad initial sets, for example (interior) or (exterior).

Anyway folks those are the major problems I foresee. I will probably do some thinking and start working on one big documented post to keep track of everything. Will have more soon!

Alex
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

DennisGlowacki's Avatar
Old (#11)
I'd love to get your skype
Offline , line, 88 Posts, Join Date Feb 2010, Location Chicago Send a message via Skype™ to DennisGlowacki  
   Reply With Quote

dralex789's Avatar
Old (#12)
I'll PM ya,

Alex
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

BelgianBoolean's Avatar
Old (#13)
Hey Alex, this is all pretty intriguing. Makes me miss working as leads together on school projects

One of the more fascinating aspects of this project to me is the study of how good design and art is perceived. But beyond that, quantifying how many people view the same subject differently. When I went to the Adidas hq in Germany, we had a meeting where we discussed communication issues between designers & design directors, designers & developers, designers & factories. We used the analogy of how everyone interpreted a bottle of water differently and used completely different descriptions. We then worked to troubleshoot these discrepancies by finding ways to align everyone's perception as much as possible. It would be interesting to see that happen here, though that may not necessarily be your intent.

Beyond that, I would do an initial test with something as simple as a 3 or so props. Maybe even one. This keeps it on a tiny scale and gives you the chance to create a test group.

I do hope this keeps progressing a bit.
Looking for work in games

Currently working as the only 3d Concept Designer in Adidas' Advanced Team.


Portfolio

Twitter

LinkedIn

Sketchbook
Offline , triangle, 296 Posts, Join Date Apr 2011, Location Portland, Or. Send a message via Skype™ to BelgianBoolean  
   Reply With Quote

dralex789's Avatar
Old (#14)
The idea of a small test run is intriguing to me. I will keep that in mind. Scope is the magic word here.

Thanks also for the words of advice from your professional experience. Keeping people focused is something I am aware of but it's not necessarily a problem I want to solve during this process. Part of this is finding out when and where that could happen. Part of the fun

On a separate note Dennis and I talked off forum and one idea he proposed which I like is a poll. Does anyone know any great ways to set up internet polls? I know I am being lazy but I am at work. I will set one up somehow regardless when I get home. More soon

Alex
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

BelgianBoolean's Avatar
Old (#15)
No worries brometheus! I'd like to help in any way I can.

In my experience at work, perception issues happen due to cultural and language barriers. As for when, it's anytime you don't talk face to face with someone. Haha. The digital age is wrought with misunderstandings. But there are ways visually of reducing errors.
Looking for work in games

Currently working as the only 3d Concept Designer in Adidas' Advanced Team.


Portfolio

Twitter

LinkedIn

Sketchbook
Offline , triangle, 296 Posts, Join Date Apr 2011, Location Portland, Or. Send a message via Skype™ to BelgianBoolean  
   Reply With Quote

dralex789's Avatar
Old (#16)
Ok guys I have a poll up. Hoping to get some opinions on what to do for a basic starting point. Keep scope in mind when you choose. Sci Fi Exterior wont mean "huge sci fi city" it will more likely be something pulled far in.


http://poll.pollcode.com/zgai
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

BelgianBoolean's Avatar
Old (#17)
I demand a small environment...with 1,000 assets in it.

That is all.

Also, I voted mate.
Looking for work in games

Currently working as the only 3d Concept Designer in Adidas' Advanced Team.


Portfolio

Twitter

LinkedIn

Sketchbook
Offline , triangle, 296 Posts, Join Date Apr 2011, Location Portland, Or. Send a message via Skype™ to BelgianBoolean  
   Reply With Quote

lucashaley's Avatar
Old (#18)
Hey. How can I help?
Offline , null, 5 Posts, Join Date Jan 2012, Location Portland, OR  
   Reply With Quote

dralex789's Avatar
Old (#19)
Hey Lucas, Things have not started just yet, as the planning phase is just wrapping up. If you want, read through the posts so far, as they sum up whats going on pretty well, then if you want, vote for what you want the direction to be on that poll to be then wait for things to start! (I want to wait for a few more days on that poll to give whoever a chance to vote)

Alex
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

DennisGlowacki's Avatar
Old (#20)
Voted!...for post apocalyptic realistic steampunk cyperpunk mix ish interior...which didn't work so I went with something else.

looks like it might be a scifi interior, what if in the future they didn't go all metal crazy but instead concrete crazy. or some innovation to concrete lol...have you ever seen a scifi concrete environment. i think that might be unique.

Just tossing that out there.

Last edited by DennisGlowacki; 05-12-2012 at 08:12 PM..
Offline , line, 88 Posts, Join Date Feb 2010, Location Chicago Send a message via Skype™ to DennisGlowacki  
   Reply With Quote

dralex789's Avatar
Old (#21)
Hey guys just wanted to post a quick update, looks like fantasy exterior is in the lead but sci fi interior is close behind. Keep in mind that these are rough categories that do not encompass all options (like steampunk, or post apocalyptic :p ).

I will let the poll stay open for a few more days then start a new thread under the title of the winnning poll "ie Sci Fi Interior Environment Community Collaboration" or something. I will probably have some really basic compositions to start us off, and perhaps some color palettes for people to look.

Looking forward to getting this underway!

Alex
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

dralex789's Avatar
Old (#22)
Common guys! I've been waiting for the tie in the voting poll to break before I start the next one :P Hopefully someone votes by tonight so I can get some work started this weekend
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

dralex789's Avatar
Old (#23)
Its settled! Fantasy Exterior it is. I know I havn't been as active as I wanted to be, but that has been mostly due to being swamped at work, including weekends. Things should settle back down to normal in a bit, but Ill start a new thread with some REALLY basic pictures, so we can get this puppy rolling!
Offline , spline, 102 Posts, Join Date Apr 2012, Location Seattle, WA  
   Reply With Quote

BelgianBoolean's Avatar
Old (#24)
Look forward to seeing the beginnings Alex
Looking for work in games

Currently working as the only 3d Concept Designer in Adidas' Advanced Team.


Portfolio

Twitter

LinkedIn

Sketchbook
Offline , triangle, 296 Posts, Join Date Apr 2011, Location Portland, Or. Send a message via Skype™ to BelgianBoolean  
   Reply With Quote

lucashaley's Avatar
Old (#25)
Hum
Offline , null, 5 Posts, Join Date Jan 2012, Location Portland, OR  
   Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright 1998-2014 Polycount