http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8226509.stm



Programmer John Graham-Cumming has created a petition to the UK Prime Minister urging him to issue a posthumous apology to Alan Turing who in 1952 was criminally prosecuted for being gay, ending his career and leading to his suicide.



Turing was effectively the founder of modern computer science, and played a key role in breaking Nazi Germany’s ciphers during WW2 which historians believe may have shortened the war by as much as 2 years.



You have to be British to sign the petition, but expats can sign. There are 30,000 signatures so far.



http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/turing/

heard about this a couple days ago, its a terrible thing to happen to a great man, signed.

He was a genius who helped end the war, signed.

How does this help him now ?

I'm sure his headstone will be much relieved.

It actually helps keep it from happening to people in the future, something I'm sure he wouldn't wish on anyone.

would sign it if I could, lets try not to be douche bags to eachother in the future eh world?

Just throwing this out there...

Whatever the case might be, what was done at that time was considered illegal at that time.

We have a highway that used to be 55mph. Now it is 70mph. If I got a ticket for traveling over 55mph when I was younger (knowing the law and its consequences), should a formal apology be issued me now that the limit has been increased to 70mph? Should tickets to all offenders be reimbursed, insurance companies made to relinquish profits from increased rates which resulted from the citations? Where does it end? And with what topic? Does it depend on a person's fame or contribution to society? Who is it really benefiting (Turing - deceased) or a movement? ...

Originally Posted by [MILES]

Just throwing this out there...

Whatever the case might be, what was done at that time was considered illegal at that time.

We have a highway that used to be 55mph. Now it is 70mph. If I got a ticket for traveling over 55mph when I was younger (knowing the law and its consequences), should a formal apology be issued me now that the limit has been increased to 70mph? Should tickets to all offenders be reimbursed, insurance companies made to relinquish profits from increased rates which resulted from the citations? Where does it end? And with what topic? Does it depend on a person's fame or contribution to society? Who is it really benefiting (Turing - deceased) or a movement? ...

lol, this is the most horrible analogy I've ever heard. This isn't some arbitrary speed limit, it's a person's life.

I'll flat out say this, "If you don't see anything wrong with the situation, you are a horrible human being." Dude had his life ruined for being gay. That's like... oh I don't know, gassing people for being jewish. Much more similar to that than to fucking speed limit changes.

Man some people.

Oh look another one!

Originally Posted by Calabi

Well we should all be punished for slavery now according to some people.

If you think the affects of slavery are dead and gone, you're sorely mistaken, and also a horrible human being. No one wants anyone punished for slavery, they want to help remove the lasting effects that are still being felt in the population of black people in the western world.

What does this even have to do with the article? Are you suggesting that the government apologizing for this atrocious act is somehow someone getting punished? Instead of, you know, bigots apologizing for being bigots (posthumously). Governments can set tones, and until GLBT hate crimes are non existent in the UK, it can and will serve to rid the public from this bigoted viewpoint if their are laws and official policies in place that codify just how abhorrent this kind of behavior is.


*edit* I didn't even see this little *gem* at first:

Originally Posted by [MILES]

Who is it really benefiting (Turing - deceased) or a movement? ...

What a fucking disgrace. "a movement" You sit in your little white christian bubble in the middle of bumfuck texas bible belt and have the nerve to belittle the rights of other human beings? Disgusting, and absolutely against everything that Jesus stood for, and if you were actually in touch with the message of the Bible, you'd understand that instead of being a judgmental tard-face.

Sit here and tell me in your own words what this "movement" is, and how they will benefit in your obviously nefarious scenario. OH NO, PEOPLE MIGHT GAIN EQUAL CIVIL RIGHTS, OH THE HORROR!!!!

Originally Posted by [MILES]

Just throwing this out there...

Whatever the case might be, what was done at that time was considered illegal at that time.

We have a highway that used to be 55mph. Now it is 70mph. If I got a ticket for traveling over 55mph when I was younger (knowing the law and its consequences), should a formal apology be issued me now that the limit has been increased to 70mph? Should tickets to all offenders be reimbursed, insurance companies made to relinquish profits from increased rates which resulted from the citations? Where does it end? And with what topic? Does it depend on a person's fame or contribution to society? Who is it really benefiting (Turing - deceased) or a movement? ...

The important difference is that one law was based on a faulty understanding of highway safety, while the other was based on a faulty understanding of basic human morality. The intent of the two laws was also quite different; one was designed with the intent of minimizing traffic accidents, while the other was designed with the intent of persecuting a specific segment of the population. This is the distinction between a merely bad law, and an immoral one, and we need to be constantly vigilant about protecting ourselves and promoting awareness of the latter, so it doesn't happen again. Hence the need for symbolic apologies of this kind. It isn't just for show - it really matters.

Originally Posted by adamlewis

The important difference is that one law was based on a faulty understanding of highway safety, while the other was based on a faulty understanding of basic human morality. The intent of the two laws was also quite different; one was designed with the intent of minimizing traffic accidents, while the other was designed with the intent of persecuting a specific segment of the population. This is the distinction between a merely bad law, and an immoral one, and we need to be constantly vigilant about protecting ourselves and promoting awareness of the latter, so it doesn't happen again. Hence the need for symbolic apologies of this kind. It isn't just for show - it really matters.

What he said. Sometimes it's hard to be eloquent when debating your own basic human rights from the people in privilege not understanding what the big deal is.

^I think there's a itty bitty slight difference between what happened to him and a speeding ticket.

if because of your speeding you were banned from making any 3d computer art for the rest of your life, you committed suicide because you could not continue your lifes work, and you were one of the greatest artists in history, and the car you were driving in could not possibly go under 55 because naturally thats just how fast it would go...

then yes you would deserve an apology..


i will be the first


I'm sorry miles.. what happened to you was wrong..

Well we should all be punished for slavery now according to some people.

I'm not sure how "We're sorry you were treated unjustly by the government" equates to punishing people.

I see no reasonable reason why anyone would be against this

The dude killed himself with a fucking poisoned apple. That is fucking wild. The story behind the Macintosh logo or coincidence. You be the judge.

Oscar Wilde anyone?

I'm a liiiiiittllleee bit with Miles on this one...

I will say this -- it will be nice for his family. for that, I'm cool with it. buuuuuttt:

the government in place does not represent the government that prosecuted him. both bodies are now dead. there is no real apology possible because both parties do not exist anymore. this is a platitude.

I want to be clear -- I"M NOT AGAINST THIS PETITION... but not necessarily for it.. it does raise some questions. it iiiiiissssssss a little bit emotional... and perhaps a bit of a platitude? a bit after the fact... the only meaning i can find is to clarify the current government's stance. what are they going to say??

"yes, homosexuals are human beings, equal to everyone else. What happened to John Graham-Cumming was horrific and the British government would like to issue a full apology to John Graham-Cumming and his family, and we'd like to publicly state that this sort of prosecution for one's sexual orientation will never happen again."

The only reason that that could have any significance to you is if you thought it was the same government. you want an apology from an unjust body to admit it's guilt and reform it's actions -- and that's fine! but the tragedy here is that the party that you're prosecuting might not have anything to do with the party at fault. sorta a straw-man situation, isn't it?

Poop -- i love you. I know where this is going though. lets put our gloves on yes? I'm going to say this pre-empitively.

if it's in your estimation that there is a lot of work that needs to be done yet on the governments part to clarify it's stance towards homosexuality as being just and equal... then so be it. if this is symbolic of change that NEEDS to happen.. then I'd sign it to.

it could be that living here in the gayest part of all of canada (literally... davie street, vancouver), which is already an accepting country, i just lose sight of possible bigotry that might exist? really-- is the british government homophobic still?

Originally Posted by John Warner

it could be that living here in the gayest part of all of canada (literally... davie street, vancouver), which is already an accepting country, i just lose sight of possible bigotry that might exist? really-- is the british government homophobic still?

It doesn't matter if the government is homophobic (it is, same sex marriage gets a different name, for no good reason other than to appease religious people who think they own the legal contract) the UK as a whole is still homophobic, so is Canada, and so is the US. One town of SF or Montreal or London doesn't fix the whole country. Yes a person can move there once they're 20 and if they have a skill that will support them in an expensive city, and they have the chutzpah to relocate and start over, but they all had to grow up in the middle of nowhere, and for every one of them, there are 10 more that can't move to NYC or Cologne, or Sydney, and have to face the bigotry of the smaller towns.

You honestly can't know what it's like without having experienced it. Just having to wonder if you can say "my husband" in casual conversation the same way any one of you wouldn't even think twice about dropping "my wife" without worrying what other people will think. And that's at the mild end, there are still people being shot, killed, or beaten up, sometimes even by the police. So yes, it's very very needed.

Or you know, they could do something symbolic that could further the rights culturally of one of their minorities that faces social persecution from the time their old enough to think critically till their deathbed. You know, the (current) government doing something to further the rights of their (current) citizens.

Just throwing that out there.

hey! yes yes sorry, i just edited my post... the end bit there. if that's necessary then i'm all for it.

Signed.
Illegal or not this was a horrible thing to do and it wouldn't hurt the government to apologise, just as they have to all the victims of shell shock who were shot for cowardice.

Also, AFAIK any petition that receives over 10k signatures requires a formal response from the PM.

I'm with poop on this one :P

While i appreciate what your saying about how it wont directly benefit Turing as he has long passed on, but i believe that if this secures freedom of ones natural self, whatever that might be (a disability, sexual preference, third arm..) from affecting their professional life, and indeed personal life. Then this is a much needed apology from the current government, which is still here to represent the previous government which set down these obseen set of rulings.

if not a deserved apology, at least making people aware of his injustice would be reason enough. i've never heard of the guy before now.

...wow, Ben.