Pre-ordered! Couldn't be part of the Beta so I can't wait to jump in and start Rendering stuff out, will be increidbly useful for building my Portfolio!
@joeriv - i know that, but what i was wanting i guess is a blend between PBR and non-PBR shading in same material. this gives more control over art direction rather than sticking to strict PBR rules or strict non-PBR rules. what if i want high specular on non-metal surface. i really dont care whether it is physically accurate or not because at the end of the day we are all faking PBR in 99% of renderers out there. now this is easily possible if i break out my mesh in parts and apply different materials, but thats not always possible in all models.
torus on the right uses specular map and as you can see right now i can fake the PBR or metalness with dark diffuse and colored specular and still have high specular on low gloss surface.
is there a way to do this only with metalness map ? i thought the alpha channel of metalness map would do that but it doesnt have any effect on anything it seems.
So the way the metalness thing works is basically this:
A. Your albedo map is both your diffuse and spec map
B. The metanless map defines which sections are metal and which are not. But what its really doing is the more metal it is, the more it darkens the diffuse and pulls the specular intensity and color from the albedo. Black values in the metalness map represent non-metals, and for those, a low, fixed specular intensity is used (I don't remember the value off hand).
However, If you use mid-values in the metalness mask you can sort of hack it into doing what you want. You don't need to stick to black or white. But then it will pull the spec color from there as well, which works for things like Christmas ornaments, but not really for glossy plastics.
But really, if you want fine control over the specular color and specular intensity for non-metals, you shouldn't be using the metalness function, you should use the standard blinn-phong, as that will let you do exactly that. With energy conservation on, and a bright spec intensity value with blinn-phong, it will basically work the same as the metalness thing (ie: it will darken the diffuse to make it appear more metal-ish)
Pre-ordered too !
Just to be sure, how many computers are allowed by a license ?
(zBrush allow the user to enable a licence on two different computers maximum for example.)
Your license is tied to your Marmoset ID. You can switch computers as often as you like but you will need to re-activate the license each time as it is tied to your hardware. Re-activation is a very simple process, just open TB2 on your second computer and it will give you a prompt, send you an email with a link that you can click to activate the current computer (and de-activate the last one that you used). When you switch back, do the same thing again.
Currently the only limit is that a max of one computer at a time can be tied to a license (unless you purchase a site license).
just noted there is a fat sale on Substance designer 4! 50% off! any who it says that its fully supporting marmoset tool bag 2. would you be able to expand on that at all? i cant find anything on that.
day one buyer
Toolbag 2 supports loading of substance files, which should automatically pipe the correct inputs into the right slots in your material. You can find substance support in the extra module of the material system. Support for substance may be a little rough around the edges for now, so we really appreciate any feedback from people who are using both Toolbag and Substance Designer.
Had another go at rendering a highpoly in TB2, with some more tweaking I guess I won't have to wait for renders to finish any more in max.
With the beta almost being done, I have to say, you guys have done an amazing job with TB2, would be foolish not to pick it up.:)
Looks great! I've pretty much replaced Modo with TB2 for all my high poly renders now, its just so much faster for me to throw something into TB than set up, and wait for renders to finish.
We're really glad that you like it, and thanks once again for participating and giving feedback!
Right, When I put the sharpness at 0 everything is OK
Thank you so much for nailing this down to sharpening/post effects. We weren't really sure what was causing the issue but this should make it much easier to fix.
few more feature list request, i am sure others have mentioned these already.
1. scene name on main window next to where it says Marmoset Toolbag 2.00...
2. duplicate mesh inside scene.
3. scaling mesh inside scene.
4. ability to delete unused materials.
5. light shadow strength option
6. custom background image option.
btw, i noticed there is a preview.mesh in the toolbag folder and saving out a .mesh file from TB1 lets you use your own custom preview mesh. you can even change the preview sky, just have to keep the same names as original.
Two suggestion from me, one is having the most recent files in the file menu.
And having the output path in the same place as image settings instead of preferences.
Which brings me to my next question, are there plans to add translucency as it's own module? Would be nice to break it out like you guys did with the peach fuzz module. Also the release date announcement kinda shook up this thread(WOOT!), was there ever a response on how Fresnel is handled? I believe Maddam had a post about it back on page 18.
We've thought about bringing translucency out of the skin shader, or perhaps another simplified diffusion model that's basically just lambert+translucency for materials that aren't flesh but are translucent. We don't have immediate plans for this, but possibly down the line.
I think the end result of the Fresnel conversation was that was some people wanted to see more advanced options and controls for Fresnel. Again we don't have immediate plans, but this is something we could look into at a later date. If you have any more specific questions about the Fresnel let me know and I will try to answer them.
few more feature list request, i am sure others have mentioned these already.
1. scene name on main window next to where it says Marmoset Toolbag 2.00...
2. duplicate mesh inside scene.
3. scaling mesh inside scene.
4. ability to delete unused materials.
5. light shadow strength option
6. custom background image option.
btw, i noticed there is a preview.mesh in the toolbag folder and saving out a .mesh file from TB1 lets you use your own custom preview mesh. you can even change the preview sky, just have to keep the same names as original.
Hey that's cool, load your own preview mesh! We'll add that to the feature list now. :poly142:
Most of your requests are on the todo list in some form I think, so that's good.
The only thing I can say that isn't likely is a shadow strength setting. As shadows are the absence of light, it doesn't really make sense to have a setting to control shadow strength. The way you would control shadow strength is by:
A. Sky light/ambient light brightness
B. Dynamic light brightness, the brighter the light source the darker the shadow will appear, the dimmer the light source the dimmer the shadow.
Unless you are looking for some way to mimic light filtering through a translucent object, then it would make sense to have some sort of shadow strength paramater. Though this would be a material setting and not a per-light setting, and may not be feasible on a technical level.
Your license is tied to your Marmoset ID. You can switch computers as often as you like but you will need to re-activate the license each time as it is tied to your hardware. Re-activation is a very simple process, just open TB2 on your second computer and it will give you a prompt, send you an email with a link that you can click to activate the current computer (and de-activate the last one that you used). When you switch back, do the same thing again.
Currently the only limit is that a max of one computer at a time can be tied to a license (unless you purchase a site license).
i just found out a possible weird bug. i have 2 textures loaded they have different names but they are almost the same value wise but one gives me totally different results than the other as if for some reason marmoset 2 is making one of the spec maps lighter, i will investigate further to try and understand whats going on
edit: this just go weirder so i just copy pasted one of the gloss maps into the other to see the difference and it seems its marmoset indeed that is making one brighter than the other for some reason..... same map just different name
i just found out a possible weird bug. i have 2 textures loaded they have different names but they are almost the same value wise but one gives me totally different results than the other as if for some reason marmoset 2 is making one of the spec maps lighter, i will investigate further to try and understand whats going on
edit: this just go weirder so i just copy pasted one of the gloss maps into the other to see the difference and it seems its marmoset indeed that is making one brighter than the other for some reason..... same map just different name
Check to see if sRGB is checked on one but not the other in the image options bit.
I just wanted to ask a few questions about Interior Environments in TB2
I think it has proved evident that TB2 is going to be one of the best solutions for rendering characters and props, and even outdoor set-pieces and dioramas. This can't be disputed. However, just out of plain curiosity I would like to know if there was any consideration taken into account when building TB2 for interior environments. Any feedback on this in the form of current features or even planned features would be greatly appreciated. I do have some more specific questions as well though:
Will there be a way to mask or disable the IBL result for props that will be completely interior or hidden from the sky?
Are environment probes (ala Skyshop) planned at all?
Is Directional Light or Point Light GI planned at some point?
My apologies if any of those have been asked/answered, there is a lot to take in =P
Thanks for your time and once again, can't wait till the 5th!
My guess its for surfaces that have coating layer on them. Glossy metallic paint being covered by a smooth layer of transparent paint, would be my guess. Correct me if I am wrong.
this might be a stupid question, but what is the secondary spec for ?
Not a stupid question, in the build that you have it basically doesn't work, there aren't any parameters to control it so it might seem a bit weird. Latest build has all sorts of sliders and stuff to play with.
Secondary spec is useful for representing complex materials that have multiple layers and things like that. You can use it to get two spec passes, and vary the gloss on each for instance.
I just wanted to ask a few questions about Interior Environments in TB2
I think it has proved evident that TB2 is going to be one of the best solutions for rendering characters and props, and even outdoor set-pieces and dioramas. This can't be disputed. However, just out of plain curiosity I would like to know if there was any consideration taken into account when building TB2 for interior environments. Any feedback on this in the form of current features or even planned features would be greatly appreciated. I do have some more specific questions as well though:
Will there be a way to mask or disable the IBL result for props that will be completely interior or hidden from the sky?
Currently there is no way to disable IBL on a per-object basis. You can a baked AO map to occlude ambient IBL diffuse lighting, and you can plug a reflection occlusion map into the cavity slot to occlude IBL specular reflections, but this is on a per material/per pixel basis.
Are environment probes (ala Skyshop) planned at all?
Light probes/probe baking is not in, but if there is enough interest its something we will consider adding.
Is Directional Light or Point Light GI planned at some point?
I'm not sure what you mean by directional/point light global illumination (if you're referring to a specific technique, please feel free to post some links to whitepapers etc), but currently we do not have a radiosity/GI solution. This is something we've thought about, but its a very complex issue so we don't have any immediate plans for it. Again, if there is a lot of interest in this we'll certainly look into doing it, but we're not entirely sure that it is feasible to do in real time yet (and we would like to avoid baking etc).
My apologies if any of those have been asked/answered, there is a lot to take in =P
Thanks for your time and once again, can't wait till the 5th!
No apologies necessary, we're glad to hear that you're excited for the release!
carbon fibre, two-tone car paint, skin with sweat droplets etc.
right, i know what second specular can do but i was just confused how it could work specially inside toolbag2.
for example, something like carbon fiber needs that second specular to use a second normal map to actually look like multilayer surface.
will it be possible for this second specular to have alternate normal map texture as well as alternate spec map texture ?
as for sweat drops, unless you animate the sweat droplets it can already be done with single spec, unless i am missing something...
doing real water droplets would also require second normal map for this spec map.
obviously the more options the better, but i am just thinking out loud how it would actually work to get the multilayer effects effectively....
regarding that second spec this led me to remember the Unreal 4 videos and now i am wondering are you guys planning on making it so you can use masks to define materials in the same mesh? so for example for each color of the mask i would be able to set a spec and gloss value? i think that's how they are working with un4 and the newer engines although i might have understood it incorrectly
will it be possible for this second specular to have alternate normal map texture as well as alternate spec map texture ?\
Not currently, the spec/gloss pulls from the spec/gloss load edinto the standard slots. There isn't a way to load a normal map specifically for the secondary spec. Perhaps that is something we could add later.
You can sort of hack together what you want with the add blending and a shell mesh like I did for the eyeball thing though.
We will be shutting down our authentication server shortly, when it goes down the beta will no longer work. A new build will be out on Thursday the 5th, at which point everyone will need to do a fresh install. It is recommended to do an uninstall as soon as the beta stops working for you (there were some bugs related to old install data so a fresh install will be required).
Any beta testers who have not yet purchased a licence are encouraged to download the public build and continuing using Toolbag (and giving feedback too!). The public build will default to a 30 day trial period, if anyone has gotten a message about being in trial mode already, don't worry, all trials will be reset when the new build is available.
We would like to give a special thanks to all of our testers and the Polycount community at large, you guys have already helped shape Toolbag 2 in both small and large ways. We hope you will stick around and continue to give feedback as we strive to make TB even more awesomer.
With the beta going down this is officially the last piece I got to do in the beta.
And thanks for including me, was really great being part of it, and being able to test TB2.
To end things:
small bug:
-Currently when making a new scene, the default material doesn't show up untill I click in the material box
Small personal wish list (some of these might have been mentioned before I think)
- Automatic .obj reloading as in TB1
- Sampling on the screenshot settings defaults to 16x on a new scene, rather just have it at 25x default
- Sky rotation being linked to the camera and not a global thing.
- Chromatic abberation
With regards to TB2 being more friendly for environments (or things such as car/car interiors)
- Tiling slider on all the maps (but maybe the ui gets to bloated then?)
- Like in cryengine, not only the option to add a detail normal map, but also a detail gloss and albedo.
- Any possibility in the future of having some sort of blend material, so a material that just takes some other materials and blends them with some masks?
- Option to use Material ID's, and not having to split things up into chunks.
- Rescaling of objects.
- Maybe handy for people to know that if you give yourself write access on the TB2 folder that you can save sky's there so they show up in the sky list, figured that out today.
But related to that, it's just that I love these little usability things, a little text file to edit or something so you have have little custom divisions/groups in the list.
Thank you everyone, and most of all, thank you Marmoset team to let us be a part of the beta-testing. This tool is simply amazing, and it has just started! I can't wait to see what it will become in the future! Great work, guys!
i thought you guys were shutting down the beta but i am still able to login. do you guys have a timing for the shutdown and release of the commercial version?
I'm holding down F5 but nothing is happening! :poly142:
I got their Twitter, Facebook and the Marmoset website open to see when anything changes. My e-mail too, in case they e-mail us all first. So hyped! :poly142:
Replies
torus on the right uses specular map and as you can see right now i can fake the PBR or metalness with dark diffuse and colored specular and still have high specular on low gloss surface.
is there a way to do this only with metalness map ? i thought the alpha channel of metalness map would do that but it doesnt have any effect on anything it seems.
@mr_ace - sure, they are available here: http://www.fx81.com/temp3/botA/old/
So the way the metalness thing works is basically this:
A. Your albedo map is both your diffuse and spec map
B. The metanless map defines which sections are metal and which are not. But what its really doing is the more metal it is, the more it darkens the diffuse and pulls the specular intensity and color from the albedo. Black values in the metalness map represent non-metals, and for those, a low, fixed specular intensity is used (I don't remember the value off hand).
However, If you use mid-values in the metalness mask you can sort of hack it into doing what you want. You don't need to stick to black or white. But then it will pull the spec color from there as well, which works for things like Christmas ornaments, but not really for glossy plastics.
But really, if you want fine control over the specular color and specular intensity for non-metals, you shouldn't be using the metalness function, you should use the standard blinn-phong, as that will let you do exactly that. With energy conservation on, and a bright spec intensity value with blinn-phong, it will basically work the same as the metalness thing (ie: it will darken the diffuse to make it appear more metal-ish)
Your license is tied to your Marmoset ID. You can switch computers as often as you like but you will need to re-activate the license each time as it is tied to your hardware. Re-activation is a very simple process, just open TB2 on your second computer and it will give you a prompt, send you an email with a link that you can click to activate the current computer (and de-activate the last one that you used). When you switch back, do the same thing again.
Currently the only limit is that a max of one computer at a time can be tied to a license (unless you purchase a site license).
Toolbag 2 supports loading of substance files, which should automatically pipe the correct inputs into the right slots in your material. You can find substance support in the extra module of the material system. Support for substance may be a little rough around the edges for now, so we really appreciate any feedback from people who are using both Toolbag and Substance Designer.
Looks great! I've pretty much replaced Modo with TB2 for all my high poly renders now, its just so much faster for me to throw something into TB than set up, and wait for renders to finish.
We're really glad that you like it, and thanks once again for participating and giving feedback!
Thank you so much for nailing this down to sharpening/post effects. We weren't really sure what was causing the issue but this should make it much easier to fix.
few more feature list request, i am sure others have mentioned these already.
1. scene name on main window next to where it says Marmoset Toolbag 2.00...
2. duplicate mesh inside scene.
3. scaling mesh inside scene.
4. ability to delete unused materials.
5. light shadow strength option
6. custom background image option.
btw, i noticed there is a preview.mesh in the toolbag folder and saving out a .mesh file from TB1 lets you use your own custom preview mesh. you can even change the preview sky, just have to keep the same names as original.
And having the output path in the same place as image settings instead of preferences.
Looking forward to the 5'th
We've thought about bringing translucency out of the skin shader, or perhaps another simplified diffusion model that's basically just lambert+translucency for materials that aren't flesh but are translucent. We don't have immediate plans for this, but possibly down the line.
I think the end result of the Fresnel conversation was that was some people wanted to see more advanced options and controls for Fresnel. Again we don't have immediate plans, but this is something we could look into at a later date. If you have any more specific questions about the Fresnel let me know and I will try to answer them.
Hey that's cool, load your own preview mesh! We'll add that to the feature list now. :poly142:
Most of your requests are on the todo list in some form I think, so that's good.
The only thing I can say that isn't likely is a shadow strength setting. As shadows are the absence of light, it doesn't really make sense to have a setting to control shadow strength. The way you would control shadow strength is by:
A. Sky light/ambient light brightness
B. Dynamic light brightness, the brighter the light source the darker the shadow will appear, the dimmer the light source the dimmer the shadow.
Unless you are looking for some way to mimic light filtering through a translucent object, then it would make sense to have some sort of shadow strength paramater. Though this would be a material setting and not a per-light setting, and may not be feasible on a technical level.
Great ! Waiting my download link now !
edit: this just go weirder so i just copy pasted one of the gloss maps into the other to see the difference and it seems its marmoset indeed that is making one brighter than the other for some reason..... same map just different name
Check to see if sRGB is checked on one but not the other in the image options bit.
I think it has proved evident that TB2 is going to be one of the best solutions for rendering characters and props, and even outdoor set-pieces and dioramas. This can't be disputed. However, just out of plain curiosity I would like to know if there was any consideration taken into account when building TB2 for interior environments. Any feedback on this in the form of current features or even planned features would be greatly appreciated. I do have some more specific questions as well though:
Will there be a way to mask or disable the IBL result for props that will be completely interior or hidden from the sky?
Are environment probes (ala Skyshop) planned at all?
Is Directional Light or Point Light GI planned at some point?
My apologies if any of those have been asked/answered, there is a lot to take in =P
Thanks for your time and once again, can't wait till the 5th!
Not a stupid question, in the build that you have it basically doesn't work, there aren't any parameters to control it so it might seem a bit weird. Latest build has all sorts of sliders and stuff to play with.
Secondary spec is useful for representing complex materials that have multiple layers and things like that. You can use it to get two spec passes, and vary the gloss on each for instance.
Currently there is no way to disable IBL on a per-object basis. You can a baked AO map to occlude ambient IBL diffuse lighting, and you can plug a reflection occlusion map into the cavity slot to occlude IBL specular reflections, but this is on a per material/per pixel basis.
Light probes/probe baking is not in, but if there is enough interest its something we will consider adding.
I'm not sure what you mean by directional/point light global illumination (if you're referring to a specific technique, please feel free to post some links to whitepapers etc), but currently we do not have a radiosity/GI solution. This is something we've thought about, but its a very complex issue so we don't have any immediate plans for it. Again, if there is a lot of interest in this we'll certainly look into doing it, but we're not entirely sure that it is feasible to do in real time yet (and we would like to avoid baking etc).
No apologies necessary, we're glad to hear that you're excited for the release!
things like...
carbon fibre, two-tone car paint, skin with sweat droplets etc.
right, i know what second specular can do but i was just confused how it could work specially inside toolbag2.
for example, something like carbon fiber needs that second specular to use a second normal map to actually look like multilayer surface.
will it be possible for this second specular to have alternate normal map texture as well as alternate spec map texture ?
as for sweat drops, unless you animate the sweat droplets it can already be done with single spec, unless i am missing something...
doing real water droplets would also require second normal map for this spec map.
obviously the more options the better, but i am just thinking out loud how it would actually work to get the multilayer effects effectively....
Not currently, the spec/gloss pulls from the spec/gloss load edinto the standard slots. There isn't a way to load a normal map specifically for the secondary spec. Perhaps that is something we could add later.
You can sort of hack together what you want with the add blending and a shell mesh like I did for the eyeball thing though.
You can load a direction map in the anisotropy shader for carbon fiber type effect.
We will be shutting down our authentication server shortly, when it goes down the beta will no longer work. A new build will be out on Thursday the 5th, at which point everyone will need to do a fresh install. It is recommended to do an uninstall as soon as the beta stops working for you (there were some bugs related to old install data so a fresh install will be required).
Any beta testers who have not yet purchased a licence are encouraged to download the public build and continuing using Toolbag (and giving feedback too!). The public build will default to a 30 day trial period, if anyone has gotten a message about being in trial mode already, don't worry, all trials will be reset when the new build is available.
We would like to give a special thanks to all of our testers and the Polycount community at large, you guys have already helped shape Toolbag 2 in both small and large ways. We hope you will stick around and continue to give feedback as we strive to make TB even more awesomer.
And thanks for including me, was really great being part of it, and being able to test TB2.
To end things:
small bug:
-Currently when making a new scene, the default material doesn't show up untill I click in the material box
Small personal wish list (some of these might have been mentioned before I think)
- Automatic .obj reloading as in TB1
- Sampling on the screenshot settings defaults to 16x on a new scene, rather just have it at 25x default
- Sky rotation being linked to the camera and not a global thing.
- Chromatic abberation
With regards to TB2 being more friendly for environments (or things such as car/car interiors)
- Tiling slider on all the maps (but maybe the ui gets to bloated then?)
- Like in cryengine, not only the option to add a detail normal map, but also a detail gloss and albedo.
- Any possibility in the future of having some sort of blend material, so a material that just takes some other materials and blends them with some masks?
- Option to use Material ID's, and not having to split things up into chunks.
- Rescaling of objects.
- Maybe handy for people to know that if you give yourself write access on the TB2 folder that you can save sky's there so they show up in the sky list, figured that out today.
But related to that, it's just that I love these little usability things, a little text file to edit or something so you have have little custom divisions/groups in the list.
...new website? Interesting.
Not a new website, just getting all new stuff related to the release up on the site.
I got their Twitter, Facebook and the Marmoset website open to see when anything changes. My e-mail too, in case they e-mail us all first. So hyped! :poly142:
I know I have asked this before, but will the glass shaders be in at release?
The refraction shader is not in yet, sorry.
We updated the change log with everything you can expect to see in the release build: http://www.marmoset.co/toolbag/tb2-beta-changelog