@Millenia: You could also just UV a bump map onto the high-poly mesh, which will bake along with the rest of the geo normals, down into your OS map.
@Dr.cube: Doesn't belong in this thread. If you make a new thread in Tech Talk (along with mentioning your software!) I'm sure you'll get lots of tips.
Anyone know of a quick and easy way to unwrap a bent cylinder?
Using cylindrical under map parameters doesn't give a proper unwrap and unwrapping each segment individually, then stitching them back together is very time consuming.
If you're using Max, look into spline unwrapping, I find it the easiest way if you don't want to stitch. You can draw a spline through your shape, and then set the unwrap to follow it. It works better when you build the object from the spline itself and hit "generate mapping coordinates."
Anyone know of a quick and easy way to unwrap a bent cylinder?
Using cylindrical under map parameters doesn't give a proper unwrap and unwrapping each segment individually, then stitching them back together is very time consuming.
Anyone know of a quick and easy way to unwrap a bent cylinder?
Using cylindrical under map parameters doesn't give a proper unwrap and unwrapping each segment individually, then stitching them back together is very time consuming.
Chemical Alia's idea would work; you could also use pelt mapping.
I'm doing a BioRifle Re-make from Unreal Tournament 3. You will notice I am doing a bit of a mix between Epic's concept and final Game ready BioRifle.
I'm attempting to do the hardest part first, which is the body shown here. I have already tried to make cuts and stuff where I want them, its just nearly impossible to keep the body smooth like I want it (when modeling the cuts in that is) due to the curved surface I am dealing with.
I would like to avoid floaters for the most part, but if I have to use them I will (on the little holes and stuff I figured I would use floaters.)
So I'm thinking about using a couple different methods.
- Sculpt the details in with a lazy mouse on a highly subdivided mesh.
- Model what I can, and use floaters on the rest
- Detach parts (create more separate objects)and model what I can.
Here is the block out:
Here is the WIP sub-d:
Here is the part of the mesh I am working on if anyone want's to play around with it:
Couple of options.
-Make the cuts, correct the horrid topology errors you'll get and add more geo in the process.
EDIT: -cut the lines, make several copies of the pre-sub-d mesh you have, then delete the rest but the panel you want to keep for each mesh, fix the topology so the edge loops terminate on the end well and the bevel the edge down.
-float the living crap out of it.
All three will work. Personally when I approach this kind of model (non-floating) if it has a seam thats that apparent, it seems like it would be a separate plate and thus I model it as such. Though depending on the complexity it will determine on how I arrive at the plates--either start off that way, or do like #2.
and then of course there is always sculpting, but who wants to do that?
Yeah, I'm also interested how others approach this. Obviously, it would be really tedious if you model those on the same mesh. And it would be inefficient if you bring it to zbrush or mud and sculpt.
Has anyone tried modeling those lines using the floating geo approach?
Given the size of those seams/panels and how they will bake (even on a really large normal map) I would float them for sure. I think doing anything else would be a massive waste of time.
If this were for film or something what I would do is first make a model like you have there and then re-topo it to get all those edge loops in there and geometry dense enough to hold those shapes. Then I would divide and put in the panels and bevels.
With stuff like this you have to get the big shape perfect first and if you re-topo you keep your old geometry and can edit it, and then use it to make changes. Really the best way to go if it has to be molded in.
Has anyone tried modeling those lines using the floating geo approach?
yes, not those specifically, but
(still need to taper the outer edge a bit better for a bake, but meh.)
Don't have a picture of a bake, but yeah it's definitely the fastest and easiest way to go.
As far as them being too small to bake properly, exaggerate the bevel and/or gaps on the seams.
I need some good advice on the best way to model this door frame and door. I'm assuming splines would be the best way to get nice crisp edges and also get the detail in the beveled areas inside the purple frame but I'm not sure how to go about doing it! It needs to be very precise as it's going to but cut out of wood on a Mill, which uses xyz coordinates. I need some expert advice. Thanks!!!
3ds Max 2010
I am trying to model this armour with tank or Stealth-bomber like plates (e.g. to bounce bullets of). I modeled the single plates now but can't find a way to align them to each other. I tried to set the transform constraint to "normal" (so the single verticies only move along the Y axis) and to "rotate" the planes via "view align", but since all the plates rotate arround different centers that won't quite work. Also view align does not realy give me good controll over the rotation.
I can not realy think of a good way to do this, how would you tackle modeling such a surface?
Hi, just a remark that can help, by definition the intersection between two planes is a line. That implies that if those surface touch each other forming such sort of polylines they're not planar. I'd probably tackle it by doing the very simple general shape and then dragging/extruding (shift+drag 3ds Max) the borders as needed to keep everything as flat as possible. MakePlanar can help too, but fine tuning must be done by hand.
I would have modeled that as a single piece and then cut the plates out of it. You could do that or model a base that has the shape you want and retopo it so you have good topology and then extrude the plates out.
Doing it like this, I don't know of any good way (in 3dsmax at least) to get those lined up perfectly so they seamless.
Thanks for the (indeed verry fast) replies guys
I tried modeling this as one piece but that is giving me just the same problem, seems like the only way to get them planar is by verex pushing, since make planar or the likes will screw up the surfaces tuching the borders. I will try to do a rough shape consisting of 5 polys. But then aggain the edges where the different plates touch ain't straight, so just cutting the shape into them wont do all the trick :S
I'll be back soon posting results.
(Something like Stich in UV layout but for 3d space could maybe help...)
EDIT: So here is what you suggested.
It looks allright, though not perfect.
Hi, just a remark that can help, by definition the intersection between two planes is a line. That implies that if those surface touch each other forming such sort of polylines they're not planar.
That is causeing the problems with the right and the lower right plates.
Guess it's time for vertex pushing then.
EDIT 2:
Is there some script that could do like "Make planar by smoothig group while keeping borders somewhat averaged"?
By definition the intersection between two planes is a line. That implies that if those surfaces touch each other forming such sort of polylines they're not planar.
@ THE 5: Maybe you got the sentence wrong: It is not your fault if two intersecting (not coplanar) shapes that do not form a line are not planar, they simply CANNOT be, there is no vertex pushing that can fix it. I meant you would have to adjust things to look good, but is impossible to get a polyline as the intersection of two real planes. If you MakePlanar one set, it just make "unplanar" the other set, and you can go on with that forever, but is unfixable.
The solutions are: make the intersection a straight line and you can have both face sets planar OR make the front set planar and the second one (the upper right) not planar or broken in multiple planes, as I suggested you can get it by shift-dragging the border. The choice should be based on what looks better.
@ himadri_sm: Regardless the software (I'm not a Maya user) such text can be handled like floating geometry. If you plan to import your high poly in a sculpting application, you can even create a stencil in photoshop and create the embossed text in the sculpted high poly to be baked in a normal map.
@ THE 5: Maybe you got the sentence wrong: It is not your fault if two intersecting (not coplanar) shapes that do not form a line are not planar, they simply CANNOT be,
No no, I got that (the other day I had to calculate these intersection lines at uni).
there is no vertex pushing that can fix it. I meant you would have to adjust things to look good, but is impossible to get a polyline as the intersection of two real planes. If you MakePlanar one set, it just make "unplanar" the other set, and you can go on with that forever, but is unfixable.
Yeh, I am not lookingfor a 100% planar sollution. I just thought there is a quicker method than plain vertex pushing or modellign it over again with edge extrusion, to get it somewhat planar and well aligned.
[...] make the front set planar and the second one (the upper right) not planar or broken in multiple planes, as I suggested you can get it by shift-dragging the border. The choice should be based on what looks better.
I turned on turbosmooth and just pushed single verticies out till the specular shew me a smooth result.
The result is indeed nice! Sorry for sounding a bit peremptory. I get quite frustrated by "bad" 2D concepts where impossible geometry is nonchalantly thrown in, and looks good too! The pain comes when you are asked to model it, to achieve the very same "impossible" design. I guess they never heard about M.C.Escher
The result is indeed nice! Sorry for sounding a bit peremptory. I get quite frustrated by "bad" 2D concepts where impossible geometry is nonchalantly thrown in, and looks good too! The pain comes when you are asked to model it, to achieve the very same "impossible" design. I guess they never heard about M.C.Escher
Actualy I drew that concept myslef and I'm quite happy with it, hehe ;P
Bt was purely made with the intention to draw something aggain after some weeks and I did not concider that I might draw something impossible to model. Aggain I learned something, thx for th kind help!
how to model circular text like in this image in maya?-
The easiest way is the bevel modifier under the create text action. Then use a bend modifier to wrap it and another bend to give it that slope and leave it as floating geo. (Edit: you wont be able to smooth this text, but it will come out very smooth as is.)
Insetting it on a curved surface would be ridiculously time consuming and overall leave you frustrated even if you do manage to do it (which is possible). If thats the path you want to take...Hand model it with create-poly or use cylinder caps/planes to deform them along the shape of the letters and pay careful attention to your geo flow.
Create a NURBS circle, select your text, then the curve, then goto Animate > Motion Paths > Attach to Motion Path. This will attach your mesh to the curve.
Then goto Animate > Motion Paths > Flow Path Object. You should now have a lattice that you can deform.
Select the curve and scale it to the desired width.
you need more geo on the big cilinder ( more sides ) and then you create that extrusion from it and you wont even need to add the control edges good luck !
I've had the hardest time trying to make the above shape. More specifically the spiral - trying to get it to blend seamlessly, while still maintaining a circular shape to the overall model.
I did manage to get it made, mind you it took far longer than it should. So I would love to see how someone else would go about this.
1-3 are simple, 4th stage i just folded the strip. In the last stage i just cloned the folded mesh and merged it together then deleted the parallel edge loops, then beveled the spiral edges and moved the middle edge outwards.
Just wanted to contribute to the thread and also see if I can get some crits What I did to get this cello body is as follows:
1. model the body
2. model the hole as a poly strip and move the vertices onto the body surface using surface snapping
3. refine the body with one level of subdivision applied and delete the poly's around the hole
4. fill the gap between the hole and the body and tweak vertices to get rid of any bulges
Hey guys I need some help...I'm trying to model the phone cord of a payphone in 3ds max....like this one..
My plan was to create the cord with a spline then create a cylinder and Extrude Along Spline...then grab all the edge loops and extrude them in a little to create those ridges...
well...the problem is that on the curvy part of the cord there are more edge loops than in the straight sections of the cord....I'm wondering if there is a way to relax/space evenly all the edgeloops so the ridges will all be evenly space?
Sorry if that's confusing, I'm just stuck on this part for right now and would like to continue the modeling.
Heres a quick mockup, just need to mess with the settings abit more to get equal spacing.
Don't mind the spelling error.
Not a regular max user, but i think theres a modifier called 'normalise' that will enable you to space out the points of a curve to eliminate the stretching.
Yup, that looks awesome and exactly what I'm looking for. I'ma go ahead and try out your method, thanks for the help dude!
Edit: Gahh!! I really need to read up on what those modifiers do. I spent like an hour trying to figure out how to do it on my own...after reading your tip Ark, I got it done in like 10 minutes argh!
I spent like two hours trying to get this pauldron to look right and only got the spark plug to look right. The eye didn't come out how I wanted and I really messed up bug time on the teeth when I tried to take them on.
Is there a better way to get the eye and teeth in there? I think I might have to prepare the geometry a little better.
If your just going to bake it to a normal map I would float all the teeth. AS for the cylinder you need to have geometry dense enough to hold the curvature. You can subdivide and do a boolean or you can try and get tricky and see if you can get away with less since a lot of that is planar.
If that "creased" surface was more curved though there really would be no other way to get that in there other than to add more geo.
Okay, I got three cylinders I want to combine (actually the theory is more about two) and they have different size, so my question is how I best make this work, high poly and lowpoly. Can I keep the two smaller cylinders detached and still make it look merged with the normal map on the lowpoly and what would be best to do with the highpoly? Do I need more segments on the main poly for high (and low if I need to combine)?
Okay, I got three cylinders I want to combine (actually the theory is more about two) and they have different size, so my question is how I best make this work, high poly and lowpoly. Can I keep the two smaller cylinders detached and still make it look merged with the normal map on the lowpoly and what would be best to do with the highpoly? Do I need more segments on the main poly for high (and low if I need to combine)?
Heyd McGreed, usually this is how I do tube/cylinder connect in max.
- create an 8 sided cylinder
- duplicate/clone it by rotating 90 degrees
- go back to first cylinder, use cut tool (with vertex snap on) while using the second cylinder's vertices as guide
- hide/delete the 2nd cylinder
- select the new faces/shape you made (on the first cylinder), then inset
- extrude it then align the vertex
- put your support edges
- smooth
Here's an image of what you'll get. I think same principle goes when the cylinders have different sizes.
whoa whoa whoa...you're telling me the countless hours I've spent trying to make really tiny indentation detail into my model, I could have just made a separate object floating above it and it would look the same and create better mesh flow?
Replies
@Dr.cube: Doesn't belong in this thread. If you make a new thread in Tech Talk (along with mentioning your software!) I'm sure you'll get lots of tips.
If you're using Max, look into spline unwrapping, I find it the easiest way if you don't want to stitch. You can draw a spline through your shape, and then set the unwrap to follow it. It works better when you build the object from the spline itself and hit "generate mapping coordinates."
roadkill unwrapper. after using it, you will wonder why in the world you used max or maya or w/e to unwrap.
just unwrap in roadkill by selecting with edges you want to cut, then adjust the uv pieces in your 3d program to your liking.
Chemical Alia's idea would work; you could also use pelt mapping.
I'm doing a BioRifle Re-make from Unreal Tournament 3. You will notice I am doing a bit of a mix between Epic's concept and final Game ready BioRifle.
I'm attempting to do the hardest part first, which is the body shown here. I have already tried to make cuts and stuff where I want them, its just nearly impossible to keep the body smooth like I want it (when modeling the cuts in that is) due to the curved surface I am dealing with.
I would like to avoid floaters for the most part, but if I have to use them I will (on the little holes and stuff I figured I would use floaters.)
So I'm thinking about using a couple different methods.
- Sculpt the details in with a lazy mouse on a highly subdivided mesh.
- Model what I can, and use floaters on the rest
- Detach parts (create more separate objects)and model what I can.
Here is the block out:
Here is the WIP sub-d:
Here is the part of the mesh I am working on if anyone want's to play around with it:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4888693/My_ART/UnrealCharacter/BioRifle_Help01.zip
-Make the cuts, correct the horrid topology errors you'll get and add more geo in the process.
EDIT: -cut the lines, make several copies of the pre-sub-d mesh you have, then delete the rest but the panel you want to keep for each mesh, fix the topology so the edge loops terminate on the end well and the bevel the edge down.
-float the living crap out of it.
All three will work. Personally when I approach this kind of model (non-floating) if it has a seam thats that apparent, it seems like it would be a separate plate and thus I model it as such. Though depending on the complexity it will determine on how I arrive at the plates--either start off that way, or do like #2.
and then of course there is always sculpting, but who wants to do that?
Yeah, I'm also interested how others approach this. Obviously, it would be really tedious if you model those on the same mesh. And it would be inefficient if you bring it to zbrush or mud and sculpt.
Has anyone tried modeling those lines using the floating geo approach?
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=25&t=678648
he has made a nice tutorial on vimeo...
http://vimeo.com/3301759
hope this helps...oh by the way he is using max .... but i guess you are a max user too
If this were for film or something what I would do is first make a model like you have there and then re-topo it to get all those edge loops in there and geometry dense enough to hold those shapes. Then I would divide and put in the panels and bevels.
With stuff like this you have to get the big shape perfect first and if you re-topo you keep your old geometry and can edit it, and then use it to make changes. Really the best way to go if it has to be molded in.
(still need to taper the outer edge a bit better for a bake, but meh.)
Don't have a picture of a bake, but yeah it's definitely the fastest and easiest way to go.
As far as them being too small to bake properly, exaggerate the bevel and/or gaps on the seams.
I am trying to model this armour with tank or Stealth-bomber like plates (e.g. to bounce bullets of). I modeled the single plates now but can't find a way to align them to each other. I tried to set the transform constraint to "normal" (so the single verticies only move along the Y axis) and to "rotate" the planes via "view align", but since all the plates rotate arround different centers that won't quite work. Also view align does not realy give me good controll over the rotation.
I can not realy think of a good way to do this, how would you tackle modeling such a surface?
Doing it like this, I don't know of any good way (in 3dsmax at least) to get those lined up perfectly so they seamless.
Ooops SyncViewS beat me to it
ha ha double beaten to it
I tried modeling this as one piece but that is giving me just the same problem, seems like the only way to get them planar is by verex pushing, since make planar or the likes will screw up the surfaces tuching the borders. I will try to do a rough shape consisting of 5 polys. But then aggain the edges where the different plates touch ain't straight, so just cutting the shape into them wont do all the trick :S
I'll be back soon posting results.
(Something like Stich in UV layout but for 3d space could maybe help...)
EDIT: So here is what you suggested.
It looks allright, though not perfect. That is causeing the problems with the right and the lower right plates.
Guess it's time for vertex pushing then.
EDIT 2:
Is there some script that could do like "Make planar by smoothig group while keeping borders somewhat averaged"?
@ THE 5: Maybe you got the sentence wrong: It is not your fault if two intersecting (not coplanar) shapes that do not form a line are not planar, they simply CANNOT be, there is no vertex pushing that can fix it. I meant you would have to adjust things to look good, but is impossible to get a polyline as the intersection of two real planes. If you MakePlanar one set, it just make "unplanar" the other set, and you can go on with that forever, but is unfixable.
The solutions are: make the intersection a straight line and you can have both face sets planar OR make the front set planar and the second one (the upper right) not planar or broken in multiple planes, as I suggested you can get it by shift-dragging the border. The choice should be based on what looks better.
@ himadri_sm: Regardless the software (I'm not a Maya user) such text can be handled like floating geometry. If you plan to import your high poly in a sculpting application, you can even create a stencil in photoshop and create the embossed text in the sculpted high poly to be baked in a normal map.
Yeh, I am not lookingfor a 100% planar sollution. I just thought there is a quicker method than plain vertex pushing or modellign it over again with edge extrusion, to get it somewhat planar and well aligned.
I turned on turbosmooth and just pushed single verticies out till the specular shew me a smooth result.
Actualy I drew that concept myslef and I'm quite happy with it, hehe ;P
Bt was purely made with the intention to draw something aggain after some weeks and I did not concider that I might draw something impossible to model. Aggain I learned something, thx for th kind help!
The easiest way is the bevel modifier under the create text action. Then use a bend modifier to wrap it and another bend to give it that slope and leave it as floating geo. (Edit: you wont be able to smooth this text, but it will come out very smooth as is.)
Insetting it on a curved surface would be ridiculously time consuming and overall leave you frustrated even if you do manage to do it (which is possible). If thats the path you want to take...Hand model it with create-poly or use cylinder caps/planes to deform them along the shape of the letters and pay careful attention to your geo flow.
i dont know if maya has a bend modifier or whatever. but in max you'd use the text tool and slap on a bend modifier hmm sorry
Create a NURBS circle, select your text, then the curve, then goto Animate > Motion Paths > Attach to Motion Path. This will attach your mesh to the curve.
Then goto Animate > Motion Paths > Flow Path Object. You should now have a lattice that you can deform.
Select the curve and scale it to the desired width.
figured i'd post it here in case anyone might need it.
I have this shape I'm trying to edge control, smooth control whatever you call it.
The trouble is it does this, the geometry on the corner has gone wrong.
Thinking about it a bit more though, I dont really need that a part of the same mesh, I'll just have it floating them sunk in slightly.
I've had the hardest time trying to make the above shape. More specifically the spiral - trying to get it to blend seamlessly, while still maintaining a circular shape to the overall model.
I did manage to get it made, mind you it took far longer than it should. So I would love to see how someone else would go about this.
Thanks:)
1-3 are simple, 4th stage i just folded the strip. In the last stage i just cloned the folded mesh and merged it together then deleted the parallel edge loops, then beveled the spiral edges and moved the middle edge outwards.
1. model the body
2. model the hole as a poly strip and move the vertices onto the body surface using surface snapping
3. refine the body with one level of subdivision applied and delete the poly's around the hole
4. fill the gap between the hole and the body and tweak vertices to get rid of any bulges
My plan was to create the cord with a spline then create a cylinder and Extrude Along Spline...then grab all the edge loops and extrude them in a little to create those ridges...
well...the problem is that on the curvy part of the cord there are more edge loops than in the straight sections of the cord....I'm wondering if there is a way to relax/space evenly all the edgeloops so the ridges will all be evenly space?
Sorry if that's confusing, I'm just stuck on this part for right now and would like to continue the modeling.
Don't mind the spelling error.
Not a regular max user, but i think theres a modifier called 'normalise' that will enable you to space out the points of a curve to eliminate the stretching.
Edit: Gahh!! I really need to read up on what those modifiers do. I spent like an hour trying to figure out how to do it on my own...after reading your tip Ark, I got it done in like 10 minutes argh!
I spent like two hours trying to get this pauldron to look right and only got the spark plug to look right. The eye didn't come out how I wanted and I really messed up bug time on the teeth when I tried to take them on.
Is there a better way to get the eye and teeth in there? I think I might have to prepare the geometry a little better.
If that "creased" surface was more curved though there really would be no other way to get that in there other than to add more geo.
Heyd McGreed, usually this is how I do tube/cylinder connect in max.
- create an 8 sided cylinder
- duplicate/clone it by rotating 90 degrees
- go back to first cylinder, use cut tool (with vertex snap on) while using the second cylinder's vertices as guide
- hide/delete the 2nd cylinder
- select the new faces/shape you made (on the first cylinder), then inset
- extrude it then align the vertex
- put your support edges
- smooth
Here's an image of what you'll get. I think same principle goes when the cylinders have different sizes.
Any help would be greatly appreciated..
I first thought of chamfering it, but that didnt work out properly.
I'm Using 3ds Max 2010
EDIT: THe edge flow has since been improved, but it's still pissing me off..
whoa whoa whoa...you're telling me the countless hours I've spent trying to make really tiny indentation detail into my model, I could have just made a separate object floating above it and it would look the same and create better mesh flow?
I cant make this damn thing properly.
How would you model it?
The best i can do (is ugly):
Thank you for helping!
Edit: More geometry... :poly136:
Yes, but its not just a cylinder that can be easily made with more segment/geometry.
Its the best i can do, (and dont like it):
Tried this and that but cant find happiness.