Double Fine Adventure Kickstarter

[Marshal Banana]

So, apparently, Tim and the others at Double Fine are planning on making a new adventure game. But instead of going for a publisher, they're asking for funding from the fans themselves!

Check it out:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66710809/double-fine-adventure

[crazyfingers]

That was incredible, seriously considering funding my first kickstarter right now. <3 Tim Schaefer and the genera.

[adam]

Donated!

[Mcejn]

For $10,000, "lunch with..." better fucking end in sex.

[ScudzAlmighty]

I wonder what this'll mean for the potential Psychonauts 2?

pledging either way.

[skylebones]

Pledged for sure! Those old adventure games are the biggest influence on my decision to get into games.

[Arcanox]

Put my money down on this one. Make me proud Tim!

[mikezoo]

genius!!! I want an adventure game from them sooo badly!!

Donated!!!

[Justin Meisse]

Pledge $30,000 or more:
Picture of Ron Gilbert smiling.

Pledge $35,000 or more:
Undoctored picture of Ron Gilbert smiling.

[EtotheRic]

woot

[Dylan Brady]

Pledge $30,000 or more:
Picture of Ron Gilbert smiling.

Pledge $35,000 or more:
Undoctored picture of Ron Gilbert smiling.
this just makes me wonder what;s going to be contained within this "picture of ron gilbert smiling" 's mouth

[Slum]

Jeez. 8 hours in, and they are at $345k. Almost there!

[PogoP]

So awesome. I was never a massive fan of Psychonauts, but I would love to see a new adventure game!

[Maph]

Yes, Yes, YES! Tim Schafer, you're a goddamn legend. They've already reached their goal and I was happy to donate still.

[Jeff Parrott]

Great idea for Double Fine to do. Really hope large companies and publishers don't start pulling this. I could see it being the new Limited Edition.

"Pledge $20,000 for Madden 2013 and get to help walk John Madden to his car"

[r_fletch_r]

I'm in :D

Im surprised a small royalty percentage wasn't included in the very large donations.

[Zpanzer]

I'm impressed that they got over 500.000 dollars in the matter 9 hours... It's crazy.

I decided I didnt wanna eat today and pledged 15 bucks for it. Can't wait to see what they come up with.

[glottis8]

donated :) this is awesome.

[skylebones]

Big win! Glad they got it, with plenty of time to spare. It mentions in the kickstarter page that any additional money will go towards making the game better. By the time the end comes around, they can pretty much add what they want.

[Alberto Rdrgz]

god this made my day!

[stimpack]

super stoked about this!! i put down my money. hoping they do well!

[Stradigos]

Donated! So fired up =]

[moose]

awesome, haha 768k?! fuck!

Mini portrait of YOU, painted by the game's artist, and all previous reward tiers.

currently at 56, someone's going to be busy painting portraits :)

[seforin]

http://thatwasmykil.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/vg67654_shut_up_and_take_my_money-n1294512916668.jpg

[Justin Meisse]

I'm calling it: it will reach $1 million before the day is through

[skylebones]

I'm calling it: it will reach $1 million before the day is through


I think your totally right. With a month left, I wonder how high this is going to get. Jeez, they could probably fund psychonauts 2 without notch.

I wonder if any other studios are going to try kickstarter now. I can just see it, Madden 2013 kickstarter project.

[ZacD]

Average donation is ~$40, crazy.

[ironbearxl]

This makes me want to reinstall Psychonauts.

[Sculptaur]

I pledged. Such a great idea.

Surely it's against the rules of Kickstarter for companies that already have
the capital (EA with Madden) to use it though?

So keen to see how much money they end up with and to see the project come along.

[d1ver]

This is fucking awesome what's going there. My mind is blown internets are awesome once again and they are totally threading new ground there.

Though I'm in a place where you don't even have a fucking credit card I still found a way to pledge and I just wish I could pledge more.

[Hugh]

Stop donating ffs. They met the quota



STOP FUCKING DONATING

[Justin Meisse]

Stop donating ffs. They met the quota



STOP FUCKING DONATING

Why? It's not like a million dollars is that big of a budget. They are going from a micro budget to a small budget.

[Sculptaur]

1 million and I haven't even had lunch yet. Gotta love the internet!

[oXYnary]

Does this all have something to do with THQ getting out of the kids market?

Anyhow donated for the game copy tier.

I wonder though, with kickstarters, I thought the idea was you were supposed to be paid back if the project succeeded?

[Justin Meisse]

Does this all have something to do with THQ getting out of the kids market?

Anyhow donated for the game copy tier.

I wonder though, with kickstarters, I thought the idea was you were supposed to be paid back if the project succeeded?

Nope, you get your money back if it fails to reach its goal. In 32 days everyone who pledged will get charged the amount they pledged. When I get home I'm pledging $40, because I've paid that much for DOTT & Full Throttle, they both were totally worth it.

[crazyfingers]

Well in a sense you are in many cases, Oxy. If a project is showing real promise and you pick it up for 15 bucks, there's a good chance you're getting your monies worth.

[claydough]

Geez! I just got news of this from facebook and they already met their quota :thumbup:

Hopefully a sign of good things to come!


In the face of insults like:
, a list of over 200 classic titles (http://machinestudios.co.uk/viewentry.php?id=45) that are currently being sold by publishers without any of the new income going to the actual developers that made the game
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2012/02/why-dont-more-game-developers-see-royalties-from-their-work.ars

[Alberto Rdrgz]

wow someone pledged 10k? that's insane!

[xvampire]

^ https://twitter.com/#!/notch/status/167716925089128448

[Zipfinator]

I wonder how much this extra money will affect the development. They've said extra money will be put into extra VA, music, development of the video documentation, additional release platforms, etc... Looks like they're budget will be at least quadrupled and maybe even higher by March 12th though.

[eld]

Stop donating ffs. They met the quota



STOP FUCKING DONATING

I forgot!

I need to donate!

edit: haha, $1200k already!

I wonder how much this extra money will affect the development. They've said extra money will be put into extra VA, music, development of the video documentation, additional release platforms, etc... Looks like they're budget will be at least quadrupled and maybe even higher by March 12th though.

They could make another game, and put it into the game!

[Jackablade]

At this rate they'll be able to bankroll Psychonauts 2 with the left over cash.

[MattQ86]

http://i.imgur.com/LFspv.jpg

[Andreas]

Stop donating ffs. They met the quota



STOP FUCKING DONATING

Are you joking or is there something wrong with you? More money means bigger budgets means better artists getting to spend longer making shit pretty. Also time for testing. Maybe even make an adventure game engine that they'll release as open source later (that would be awesome).

But I'm going to go ahead and assume you're joking.

[TerraBite]

Donated!

[Andreas]

I wonder if we keep going will Schafer agree to not only make that game but also promise that Psychonauts 2 gets made too. I'm right in thinking this is for a completely original game right?

[eld]

I wonder if we keep going will Schafer agree to not only make that game but also promise that Psychonauts 2 gets made too. I'm right in thinking this is for a completely original game right?

Psychonauts was something like $15 million in production costs I believe, so there'd be a bit more funding required.

Still, there's a whole more month left on that kickstarter ;)

[glottis8]

Yea... i think i was reading that he was speculating a 20 million budget to make Psychonauts 2. That's a lot of money! I dunn think Notch can afford that much... or everyone for that matter.

[eld]

Lets see here,

20 million usd.


Lets say mojang gets around $12 from each sold copy of minecraft after taxes, putting taxes at a very generous 50%, they'll require around ~1666666 sold copies for that.

At a rate of 9000 copies sold per day, they'll have the budget required after half a year of minecraft sales.

Needless to say though, they've almost already sold 5 million copies, it's very likely mojang has the money to fund psychonauts 2, and with PR-machine that is minecraft and the community, it wouldn't be too far fetched that it'll sell well.

[Andreas]

Aye eld, that was my point. There is still a month, even if this frenzy does die down. I don't think anyones saying this new game AND P2 could get totally funded out of this, but it could take a serious chunk out of it, and Notch's crowd could assist with the rest and maybe attract a publisher?

[eld]

Aye eld, that was my point. There is still a month, even if this frenzy does die down. I don't think anyones saying this new game AND P2 could get totally funded out of this, but it could take a serious chunk out of it, and Notch's crowd could assist with the rest and maybe attract a publisher?

That I would agree with, and even after this kickstarter when the game is finished it'll hit steam and such, further generating more sales.

[Ace-Angel]

Are you joking or is there something wrong with you? More money means bigger budgets means better artists getting to spend longer making shit pretty. Also time for testing. Maybe even make an adventure game engine that they'll release as open source later (that would be awesome).

But I'm going to go ahead and assume you're joking.

He's just jealous ;P

That I would agree with, and even after this kickstarter when the game is finished it'll hit steam and such, further generating more sales.

Hopefully, they do make it, and no publisher gets involved. Last thing is a P2 FPS game.

[Isaiah Sherman]

Damn... 1.5m so far!

[glynnsmith]

I think it's against Kickstarter's rules to use the money for anything other than what's stated in the original pitch, right?

So, this will all have to go towards the dev of thier next point and click adventure game, and the documentary about it's making.

I think.

[Japhir]

I had to, psychonauts was one of the first games I played all the way through, and enjoyed thouroughly. The story and characters and gameplay were all very compelling, and even though I'm normally not much for a click-adventure game, seeing the whole process of development should be interesting!
I am, however only a poor student so I kept it to 15$.

EDIT: oh and I totally forgot about Grim Fandango, for which I had to look up some clues but still finished playing (even though it was more of a to-do list now) simply because of the awesome setting and story.

[luke]

donated last night :)

[aivanov]

I think it's against Kickstarter's rules to use the money for anything other than what's stated in the original pitch, right?

So, this will all have to go towards the dev of thier next point and click adventure game, and the documentary about it's making.

I think.

If that's the case, how exactly is Kickstarter gonna monitor that? All this money is just essentially gonna pay the salaries of dudes sitting at computers and manning the cameras. What those dudes do while sitting at computers is another matter entirely. Unless Kickstarter has some sort of thought police.

[aesir]

If that's the case, how exactly is Kickstarter gonna monitor that? All this money is just essentially gonna pay the salaries of dudes sitting at computers and manning the cameras. What those dudes do while sitting at computers is another matter entirely. Unless Kickstarter has some sort of thought police.

They don't monitor it. If you wanted to pay yourself a 1 million dollar salary and do the whole thing yourself, then you can. But yes, you're supposed to use all the money on the project.



I've gotta admit I have mixed feelings about this. I love everyone helping to fund a project that they're interested in, but I feel like if you're contributing a decent amount of money, then there should be some sort of return on your investment. I don't know why it bothers me that people are just giving away their money to this company, but it kinda does. No big deal though. Their choice.

[Zipfinator]

I've gotta admit I have mixed feelings about this. I love everyone helping to fund a project that they're interested in, but I feel like if you're contributing a decent amount of money, then there should be some sort of return on your investment. I don't know why it bothers me that people are just giving away their money to this company, but it kinda does. No big deal though. Their choice.

What do you mean a return on the investment. Anyone who donates gets the game, the dev documentaries and access to the exclusive forum. Then there are tons of other rewards like limited edition posters, tours of the studio, etc... I'm sure you read most of the rewards. Are you saying they should get a percentage of the sales from the game?

[glynnsmith]

I've gotta admit I have mixed feelings about this. I love everyone helping to fund a project that they're interested in, but I feel like if you're contributing a decent amount of money, then there should be some sort of return on your investment. I don't know why it bothers me that people are just giving away their money to this company, but it kinda does. No big deal though. Their choice.

I can understand this. I think Kickstarter's meant for startups, and people making their first splash into whatever industry it is they're aiming for.

For an established company to use it, who have worked on some rather big games, headed by a guy that's made some of the most-loved titles ever, doesn't sit right with me, either. I guess it's within the Kickstarter rules, so I guess it's all above board.

But, this initial strangeness aside, I am really glad for them, and am looking forward to a new point and click game. I'm curious if other studios might go this route and bypass publishers completely. I wonder if it might work so well for smaller, or lesser-known teams. I also wonder how many publishers are shitting their pants that this experiment has yielded such an impressive response.

[Snacuum]

This is pretty awesome and I'm really all for it. But much like others here it's also tripping my "the world is a changing" sense really bad.

The only negative I can feel is that consumers working with this system imply that their money is for the services rendered and not for the product. That may not sound so bad from behind our desks as it is a frequent issue in debates about piracy et. al. but I'm very used to looking at a completed product, considering its worth and price, and then deciding to purchase based on that. If it was made by a company I like and I get to feel good supporting them then that's a bonus.

I dunno this radical new finance model sound like it could perpetuate the current trend of "lol we can do what we want because it's business, and you paid us so you like that right?"

[pior]

It's very interesting stuff, but also a bit puzzling as some mentioned it above.

I pledged because I do believe in supporting an innovative company, and I am also in favor of cutting the middleman (publisher) in a time when physical media is becoming obsolete and big marketing campaigns are more and more pointless. I am super interested in the beta releases of the game too, very cool stuff. (I don't care much for the videos and user forums tho.)

It's kinda odd that Kickstarter would let an established company use its platform that way - but in a way, I can understand why : DF would certainly have a very hard time finding a "regular" investor/publisher to finance and or distribute something as niche as a classic adventure game ; in a way, DF indeed does seem to comply with the Kickstarter indie philosophy.

The KS requirements state :


To be eligible to start a Kickstarter project, you need to satisfy the requirements of Amazon Payments:
Be a permanent US resident and at least 18 years of age with a Social Security Number (or EIN), a US bank account, US address, US state-issued ID (driver’s license), and major US credit or debit card.


So, since in the US corporations are legally people, I suppose it works just fine for DF ? But can a company really have a "US state-issued ID" ?

Anyways - I think what I like the most about this idea is that it is all based on trust. If you trust the guy and the DF team because you enjoyed their games before, then it's a total no brainer!

Very curious to see how this develops, and what will happen next with other small studios using the same kind of crowd funding systems.

[eld]

I can understand this. I think Kickstarter's meant for startups, and people making their first splash into whatever industry it is they're aiming for.

For an established company to use it, who have worked on some rather big games, headed by a guy that's made some of the most-loved titles ever, doesn't sit right with me, either. I guess it's within the Kickstarter rules, so I guess it's all above board.

But, this initial strangeness aside, I am really glad for them, and am looking forward to a new point and click game. I'm curious if other studios might go this route and bypass publishers completely. I wonder if it might work so well for smaller, or lesser-known teams. I also wonder how many publishers are shitting their pants that this experiment has yielded such an impressive response.

I think that's been a misunderstanding with people all the time, kickstarter has never been just for the startup or small guy, it's been for whomever has an idea that needs funding, and for the people ready to pay up front for that idea.
This is hardly the first time a known developer or person has used kickstarter for a project, but it is the first time it has reached this kind of a budget.

Which is the big reason this is so special, no one knew kickstarter could gather this amount of money, even doublefine aimed very low with their project.

Publishers will only start shitting their pants when kickstarter-projects can reach multimillion budgets, until then they probably don't care much.

People are often mistaking this as people giving away money for nothing, resulting in some "oh but people should give money to those that TRULY need it", when people are in fact most often giving some money and getting something in return, in this being the actual game and documentary for $15 and other bonuses if they paid more.


... let an established company use its platform that way - but in a way, I can understand why : DF would certainly have a very hard time finding a "regular" investor/publisher to finance and or distribute something as niche as a classic adventure game ; in a way, DF indeed does seem to comply with the Kickstarter indie philosophy.


As a side-effect most projects that end up on kickstarter will be indie-projects, since without a publisher in the picture, this game will be developed solely by double fine in an indie-spirit.


So, since in the US corporations are legally people, I suppose it works just fine for DF ? But can a company really have a "US state-issued ID" ?


That's just some special rules on individuals using kickstarter, companies can do just as much.


Anyways - I think what I like the most about this idea is that it is all based on trust. If you trust the guy and the DF team because you enjoyed their games before, then it's a total no brainer!
.

Yep, I guess this is why doublefine have had such a success, with a ton of people having no doubt at all that they'll get the product they pay for, which is the big hurdle in crowdfunding:

"Will I get the project I pay up front for, or maybe it is better to wait until it is finished and pay then?"

[Hugh]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17d3koppofeg4jpg/original.jpg

[Zipfinator]

What a stupid image Hboy...

[glynnsmith]

Jesus christ, HBoy. Can you miss the mark more with that image? I don't think so. Ignoring the absolutely piss-poor grammar and typos, I'll bite:

-Reiterating a dead genre of games with a new shitty game nobody wants to play
Uhm. No-one, apart from the people who've put up one and a half million dollars, already. And the new game'll be shitty, why? Because the company making it was built by two venerable founding fathers of point and click adventure games? Utter shit.

-Being produced by steriotypical white males with no regard for cultural sensitivity
How do you know that the entire staff of Double Fine has no regard for cultural sensitivity? I checked out the tumblr for the Arkh project. They're only interested in having "people of color", preferably "queer", work on their game. That sounds entirely culturally sensitive, "representing all creeds, colors and orientations", eh?

-Targetting an audience which is now in its late 30s and shouldnt be playing video games anymore
Seriously, fuck whoever made this image. I take insult that these people are trying to limit an age bracket to playing games. Apparently it's fine to keep it open to all colours, races, genders and lifestyles. But age? Oh no! Let's limit those old people, whatever persuasion they might be.

Senseless, blind, jealous, hypocritical hating, HBoy, and you ought to know better.

No justice, indeed.

[eld]

glynnsmith, I got curious and read up on that other project, seems to be quite some drama surrounding it.

So I'm pretty sure that image was created to have some sort of rage-marketing effect where people will post it around and talk about it to create awareness for that other project in a tasteless way.

[thatanimator]

wow.. really?.. that trolled? the blind fanboy levels are strong with this one

I don't really care either way about that picture, but why not just chuckle and move along?

also, it's not that Hboybowen made that picture.. but hey, let's kill the messanger while we're at it eh? can't let people post just whatever they want about our lord and savior, no mather how much of a troll or joke it might be!

also, Shafer's team getting more money doesn't mean that the development time will be extended and in turn result in a better product. he has allready set a deadline has he not? I think it was 6 months from now or so? meh, guess more money would mean 50 people rather than 10.. more cooks is better, I hear

[glynnsmith]

glynnsmith, I got curious and read up on that other project, seems to be quite some drama surrounding it.

So I'm pretty sure that image was created to have some sort of rage-marketing effect where people will post it around and talk about it to create awareness for that other project in a tasteless way.

Probably explains why they've only made 5k, eh?

Beep boop

You sound like a bot, that looks like a troll. Chuckle!

[Noodle!]

Incredibly hard not to be trolled by that image!

On that note, pledged! I'm extremely excited to get a new (and in all likelihood great) adventure game.

I don't think that this could become a standard way of paying for games though. This company is just unique enough to make it happen, considering most of the pledgers have an emotional attachment to the developers by growing up with their games. Added to that it's a company with tons of goodwill.

[Ace-Angel]

wow.. really?.. that trolled? the blind fanboy levels are strong with this one

Everyone knows that Tim S. is the supreme leader of the KKK and all of his games have hidden agendas of racism, it's not like his games had a variety of charters which represented other cultures without referencing skin color, and besides, he clearly makes old people games.

Really? Do you realize that whoever made that picture is essentially calling Tim S. a racist smucktard bigot who is acting like a grown up baby man just because he is white and more people donated to this cause, right?

Trolling or not, that is in poor taste, what's next? Calling a white person racist because he married a white woman? Oh, I'm sorry, I guess I'm white, more people supported my project, I have a penis and I married a white person, therefore my games and my entire staff is composed of racist assholes.

And Arkh is also a failed project, why you ask? An average team of developers, in California or Chicago, based upon a one year contract with minimum wage would need about 150-200K to complete the year, while still being able to get food and clothes.

So explain to me how on Earth a 'large' team of 'colored, tran, and queer' people who will make a 'colored, tran and queer' game will able to survive on 100K exactly?

Also, since when is getting rid of the 'white' people a solution? Isn't that racist in itself? Why is that being overlooked and OK with the community?

I guess, we're old and smelly, muahaha!

I don't really care either way about that picture, but why not just chuckle and move along?

Not caring about what your racist uncle says is one thing, not caring about what racist friends says is also one thing, but when an entire Developer team is being ridiculed and being called it racist is another.

Consider this, not only is a member of Arkh being racist, but they run a Thumblr account called 'dumbthingswhitepplsay' and put a comment along the lines of 'how to shut up a white woman'.

How is any of that OK, when the current dev's themselves of Arkh don't even live by the message they're trying to send out? Seriously, this is hypocritical at best and sickeningly pathetic at worst.

Plus, their design is horrible, seriously? Perfect white Asian male, kissing a woman that looks like she has been dipped in tea, who is sporting really stupid clothing? More skin = More armor right? Last people I would have expected to fall for this trope would have been the same people who are trying to break the mold.

Oh but I know, we'll say that we have a black/indian/asian/latino girl on our team who made the design for the character and everyone will back off, isn't that OK?

also, it's not that Hboybowen made that picture.. but hey, let's kill the messanger while we're at it eh? can't let people post just whatever they want about our lord and savior, no mather how much of a troll or joke it might be!


Actually, not to take out your point, but what says he didn't. So far no one has posted up their name on that image, nor put up a naming convention. It's a flying image with no association.

It could also very well originate from 4C if it's the case, or maybe someone from Thumblr or who knows where else, but HBoy posted it without any information or wording, and considering he was pissed off at DF getting too much cash, what else is one supposed to assume other than that he created it?

Absent minded? Maybe? But wouldn't help in anyone's case.

also, Shafer's team getting more money doesn't mean that the development time will be extended and in turn result in a better product. he has allready set a deadline has he not? I think it was 6 months from now or so? meh, guess more money would mean 50 people rather than 10.. more cooks is better, I hear


In game dev? Last I heard, yes, what happens if one of your sculptors fall ill during crunch time? Oh, I know, bring in the next guy or outsource it quickly. Maybe need a port to PC? Have the spare cash. What happens if the game goes through a rough patch before picking up in sales? You don't have to close the company and fire everyone.

Plus, you also have audio, programming, testing, etc. Art isn't all that there is, nor is animation.

Frankly, the gist of what I'm saying is NO, I will not get over-my-self, how about you get over-your-self and realize non of this is OK and should not accepted. Apathy is a terrible thing to live by.

[thatanimator]

well shit...

[Andreas]

Wow Hboy I hope you didn't make that image, for the pants-on-head retarded spelling mistakes alone...

[Sandro]

Looks like that image completely derailed the thread. Trolling success! :)

[Alberto Rdrgz]

damn, Hboy what in the hell is wrong with you?

"being produced by stereotypical white males with no regard for cultural sensitivity"

HUh?!

[Jackablade]

I'm suspecting Mr Bowen might work on the Arkh project and is upset that this big name studio has swept in a grabbed a bunch of money while the little indis languish. Which is not entirely unreasonable though he'd do better to be up front about it.

I pulled up the Arkh page. First thought is that the web design could use a lot of work. Beyond that, I can make some hypothesis on why the project hasn't taken off yet.

The Arkh project doesn't have much in the way of funding because it's simply put, a poor sell. While they have some interesting ideas and their hearts are more or less in the right place (though some of their ideas seem slightly misguided), their website doesn't give any indication that they have any idea what they're doing. There's only a very vague description of gameplay along with some nice concept art and written descriptions.

It smells like another well-meaning indi project that's doomed to fail, unfortunate though that might be. Maybe that won't turn out to the case, but they need to allay those fears before people start tossing money into their proverbial hat.

[Slum]

"shitty game nobody wants to play"

Right. Nobody. Nobody spent one and a half million dollars of their own money to help fund it.

"targetting an audience which is now in its late 30s and shouldnt be playing games anymore"

Who do you think makes all those games on the shelves at the store? Teenagers?

[xvampire]

trolled :3

this is opportunity to introduce fun adventure game back to market.

unless they can have several decent 2d artist
3d is way to go. :)

[teaandcigarettes]

Whoever did that image most likely meant to insult Double Fine to rally its fans against that Arkh game. Reverse-trolling 101.

[Hugh]

I post a image from kotaku and people are attacking me....you guys should know better being on the internet.The image has gawker in the title line for fuck sake.

[xvampire]

Stop donating ffs. They met the quota



STOP FUCKING DONATING

just in case ...

[eld]

you guys should know better being on the internet

Likewise.

What was the point of you posting that image?, which if you had checked the history of that other project just makes it so much weirder.

[Ghostscape]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17d3koppofeg4jpg/original.jpg

The Arkh Project is a noble idea poorly planned and budgeted, helmed by a rather angry and hateful person:
http://dumbthingswhitepplsay.tumblr.com/post/16877108113/there-has-to-be-some-way-to-tell-white-women-to-shut-up

Looking at the scope and budget it's pretty obvious it's doomed to fail, is being poorly run from a production side of things, and I'm sure when it inevitably fails the blame will be shifted to the white, straight cismale keeping them down.

But the Arkh Project as it is outlined is a terrible fucking idea. If you want to throw money at issues with white privilege and male gaze, there are other options. Hell, your $5k that they're spending on a handful of concepts would fund the entirety of Anna Anthropy's book tour:
http://www.indiegogo.com/Anna-Anthropy-World-Tour-2012
Which is both much more reasonably budgeted, scoped, and involves an (soon to be) existing piece of media.

I'd love to support the Arkh Project but reading their plan it's painfully obvious that it's going to flame out and fail, and it's only a matter of whether that happens before or after they get out of the whimsical fantasy land of making concept art.

Honestly at this point I think the Arkh Project is going to do more harm than good by running off with their $5k (they have not been seeing new donations lately and have largely stagnated) and some concept art and making the folks who initially supported it wary of supporting a project like that in the future.

[eld]

oh christ, it was kotaku'd: http://kotaku.com/5884133/the-arkh-project-is-creating-a-game-for-queer-people-of-color-and-everyone-else

[Hugh]

Likewise.

What was the point of you posting that image?, which if you had checked the history of that other project just makes it so much weirder.

Because I thought it was a interesting image about a strange project. Though I am still wondering myself why people donated to Double Fine so much out of all the projects that have been on kickstarter.

[Justin Meisse]

Bleh, stop discussing this crappy drama

you have to realize most people are not actually donating money, the average donation is in the $30 range which means they are pre-ordering the game and the documentary.

[eld]

Because I thought it was a interesting image about a strange project. Though I am still wondering myself why people donated to Double Fine so much out of all the projects that have been on kickstarter.

You mean, why on earth would people pre-purchase (not donate), a game from a company with long experience in making them, a proven trackrecord, some key people behind the adventure genre and games that a vast amount of people cherished and grew up with?

And should they instead purchase a project from some people with no experience, no solid game idea to show off, and a project lead that seems to be weirdly racist and unstable, and not only that, their target fund won't be enough to go around, so they'll eventually run out before the game is finished.

Why are people putting money into one and not the other?

[Ghostscape]

Because I thought it was a interesting image about a strange project. Though I am still wondering myself why people donated to Double Fine so much out of all the projects that have been on kickstarter.

Because they want a new Tim Schafer Adventure Game?

Tim Schafer rose to fame and Sith-like power on the back of that genre and is well-loved by folks in gaming and tech industries, who traditionally have a lot of disposable income. Growing up in that era, if you were a serious computer-user, you had at least one of his games and you wax nostaglic for them.

So when you have the opportunity to pre-order a new Tim Schafer (and Ron Gilbert) Adventure Game, and potentially get some pretty sweet stuff in there (the larger donations were all pretty awesome), you go for it.

Nothing else on Kickstarter has "eat lunch with a childhood/teenage hero and tour his videogame office" at the $10k mark. No one else on Kickstarter has "$15 documentary about that same hero and how he is making a game like the ones you grew up on."

It's a combination of nerd-attraction, nostalgia, and wish fulfillment.

I doubt any other Kickstarter projects are going to come close for a good long time.

[Hugh]

Because they want a new Tim Schafer Adventure Game?

Tim Schafer rose to fame and Sith-like power on the back of that genre and is well-loved by folks in gaming and tech industries, who traditionally have a lot of disposable income. Growing up in that era, if you were a serious computer-user, you had at least one of his games and you wax nostaglic for them.

So when you have the opportunity to pre-order a new Tim Schafer (and Ron Gilbert) Adventure Game, and potentially get some pretty sweet stuff in there (the larger donations were all pretty awesome), you go for it.

Nothing else on Kickstarter has "eat lunch with a childhood/teenage hero and tour his videogame office" at the $10k mark. No one else on Kickstarter has "$15 documentary about that same hero and how he is making a game like the ones you grew up on."

It's a combination of nerd-attraction, nostalgia, and wish fulfillment.

I doubt any other Kickstarter projects are going to come close for a good long time.

True,there have been a few short film ones that have been good. But in the next 6 months kickstarter will have alot more games coming up

[Jackwhat]

I have zero problem with people donating and getting excited, its just it seems like its a lot of hype and buzz when there are probably some great projects that get nowhere near the same level of exposure.

Hell, go on tigsource and have a gander at some of the devlog's on there, theres some great game ideas floating around and some may never see the light of day... it just seems a bit redudent past a certain point to keep showing your support for an entity that is seemingly self sustained?

But all in all, its a good thing, i understand why its a bit frustrating to see so much money poured blindly (more like tunnel vision fanboy) into one project.

Not that im trying to take some kind of douchebag moral highground, DONATE TO CANCER stance, just trying to show another point of view.

[eld]

I have zero problem with people donating and getting excited, its just it seems like its a lot of hype and buzz when there are probably some great projects that get nowhere near the same level of exposure.

If you noticed though, it's no charity.


Creative projects only
Kickstarter cannot be used to fund for charity projects or causes. While there are countless causes worthy of support, we believe that creativity deserves its own space


People get access to the game AND the documentary if they pay the minimum of $15, soundtrack and HD documentary at $30.

This is where most of the "donations" are, they're paying because they want to have the game when it's done, and they want to see the diary like documentary as they're making it, and they want the soundtrack.

It's like pre-ordering a game.

It's all about funding and much like with a publisher you have to sell your idea in a very good way, and you'll have to have the promise of something when it's all done.

As already mentioned, few kickstarter projects will give you the finished game AND the documentary for just $15, the arkh project as an example will give you access to the beta only if you pay $500.

[Hugh]

If you noticed though, it's no charity, people get access to the game AND the documentary if they pay the minimum of $15, soundtrack and HD documentary at $30.

This is where most of the "donations" are, they're paying because they want to have the game when it's done, and they want to see the diary like documentary as they're making it, and they want the soundtrack.

It's like pre-ordering a game.


Kickstarter is not a charity, it's crowdfunding, and much like with a publisher you have to sell your idea in a very good way, and you'll have to have the promise of something when it's all done.

As already mentioned, few kickstarter projects will give you the finished game AND the documentary for just $15, the arkh project as an example will give you access to the beta only if you pay $500.

A example of kickstarter where it got funded but ended badly was the Orion:Prelude project where it was revealed here on Polycount that he ripped off his team by firing them and not giving them any compensation.

[eld]

A example of kickstarter where it got funded but ended badly was the Orion:Prelude project where it was revealed here on Polycount that he ripped off his team by firing them and not giving them any compensation.

Which even further proves that people are more likely to fund a known studio.

[Jason Young]

Is making profit-sharing/royalties one of the tier'd prizes a possibility through kickstarter? Would be an interesting way for people to feel like they really invested in a project if that is something they can buy into. I imagine it would potentially get people to buy a higher tier than they might have otherwise. Of course, I'm sure there would be issues. :)

[SHEPEIRO]

i would be interested to see if any other companies follow this example... lionhead use kickstarter for a new dungeon keeper maybe.

[Jackwhat]

I'm not really arguing specifics more ideals, perhaps this sudden influx of people who have now used kickstarter may now be more aware of what it is and look for new projects.

You're probably more in the know than i am, eld, on all the prototype/dead project videos that sit around on youtube. Look at that midway game Necissary force, for example... they had a last ditch attempt to pitch that prior to shutting down. Perhaps they should have put that up on kickstarter?

I digress though, i know what kickstarter is and it just seems strange (albeit nice in this case) to have a big name use it in such a way.

@SHEP, yeah i can see that... if it means that companies could branch out and gauge interest like that it'd be fucking fantastic.


As a bit of a tangent, and as strange as it sounds im not hugely fond of marketing or that idea that because something is marketed well it can be an inferior product and sell more. I think the quality of the "thing" should always be what matters.... but hey, naive idealist talk in a world where branding is key.

[Alberto Rdrgz]

Whoever did that image most likely meant to insult Double Fine to rally its fans against that Arkh game. Reverse-trolling 101.

HAHAHA

kotaku is just retarded.

[glynnsmith]

Is making profit-sharing/royalties one of the tier'd prizes a possibility through kickstarter? Would be an interesting way for people to feel like they really invested in a project if that is something they can buy into. I imagine it would potentially get people to buy a higher tier than they might have otherwise. Of course, I'm sure there would be issues. :)

I'm pretty sure it's in the rules that the compensation for funding a Kickstarter project has to be a non-monetary gift. So money as recompense isn't allowed :) Hence why you sometimes get whacky "Dinner with...", or "Ride in a car with..." gifts which, honestly, makes the whole thing a nicer, lighthearted experience - It'd probably suck if the place was filled with sharks, making shrewd investments based on a bottom line.

I'm sure there are crowdfunding sites that offer that kind of thing, though. Kickstarter, only being available in the US, isn't the only crowdfunding site out there.

[ErichWK]

You know what I love? Old Lucas Arts adventure games. So excited for a new Double Fine adventure game. Let's talk about that instead.

[low odor]

yes ...Day of the Tentacle was awesome..I get half that and I'll be happy

[commander_keen]

I have to agree that it seems kinda sketchy that a big mainstream company with 6 released console games is asking people on the internet for money... They should be able to fund their own projects at that point, not to mention there is another company about 20 miles away from them that has been making successful modern adventure games for years.

The original budget of $300,000 is very unrealistic (on the small side) when they have to pay the salary of every person working on the game for over a year. The amount they have raised now is a much more realistic budget for an actual team developed game but $1.6 million is insane for having absolutely nothing to show or even tell in terms of what the game will actually be.

[Hugh]

I have to agree that it seems kinda sketchy that a big mainstream company with 6 released console games is asking people on the internet for money... They should be able to fund their own projects at that point, not to mention there is another company about 20 miles away from them that has been making successful modern adventure games for years.

The original budget of $300,000 is very unrealistic (on the small side) when they have to pay the salary of every person working on the game for over a year. The amount they have raised now is a much more realistic budget for an actual team developed game but $1.6 million is insane for having absolutely nothing to show or even tell in terms of what the game will actually be.

I could have never said better words ever. I completely agree

[Ben Apuna]

I simply don't understand the negativity in this thread. There is pretty much unlimited funding available through kickstarter. It's not like Double Fine is stealing it from some poor Indie's bank account.

It's simply absurd to think that if Double Fine's kickstarter project didn't exist that other projects such as Arkh would have gotten a significant share of what Double Fine has raised. Most people aren't randomly browsing kickstarter going "hmm... I've got this money burning a hole in my pocket, what project should I back today?". They hear about a cool project that interests them and then go and back it.

Seriously, if you're developing a game what better way is there to gauge interest, secure funding, and avoid publisher BS all at the same time?.

Why begrudge Double Fine for doing what most game studios dream of doing? Why say that they should take an apparently unnecessary financial risk when they don't have to?

[EtotheRic]

I don't think you realize how fine a line small studios like double fine walk. They are not a large "mainstream" studio or publisher and do not have a bottomless pit of money to draw from.

They should be able to fund their own projects at that point, not to mention there is another company about 20 miles away from them that has been making successful modern adventure games for years.
What company is this?

I really love that Double Fine was able to secure funding for their game through voluntary means and send a message to other developers that they can do the same. Anyone that hates this can go pound sand.

[Noodle!]

I have to agree that it seems kinda sketchy that a big mainstream company with 6 released console games is asking people on the internet for money... They should be able to fund their own projects at that point, not to mention there is another company about 20 miles away from them that has been making successful modern adventure games for years.

The original budget of $300,000 is very unrealistic (on the small side) when they have to pay the salary of every person working on the game for over a year. The amount they have raised now is a much more realistic budget for an actual team developed game but $1.6 million is insane for having absolutely nothing to show or even tell in terms of what the game will actually be.

Be able to fund their own games at that point? You seriously think most studios can just fund their own games after releasing a few games? We'd have a lot more AAA indie studios if that were the case.
No, the money earned is eaten up at pretty much the same pace you get it. If you don't get a publisher interested in funding the game for you the project is pretty much dead.

As for absolutely nothing to show? No, that's true. But this is a promise made by some of the MOST BRILLIANT MINDS to ever develop adventure games. It takes a good bit of faith to kickstart a project, but these people that definitely have the skills to deliver.

[eld]

I have to agree that it seems kinda sketchy that a big mainstream company with 6 released console games is asking people on the internet for money... They should be able to fund their own projects at that point, not to mention there is another company about 20 miles away from them that has been making successful modern adventure games for years.


As people said, a vast majority of bigger games companies don't have the luxury to fund their own projects, now you'll realize why publishers have been so important to the world of games, And once again, they're not asking for money, they're essentially just turning the makegame->makemoney thing around, it's the very foundation of crowd funding.

Instead of the middleman of the publisher that would get back the money through purchasing customers, you go to the purchasing customers directly and have them buy the game before it is finished and gather the funding in that way.

What other company were you referring to?


The original budget of $300,000 is very unrealistic (on the small side) when they have to pay the salary of every person working on the game for over a year. The amount they have raised now is a much more realistic budget for an actual team developed game

The original budget was for a classic adventure game made by a smaller part of doublefine, it was realistically small as no one believed it was actually conceivable to reach any higher amount.


but $1.6 million is insane for having absolutely nothing to show or even tell in terms of what the game will actually be.

Much like every other project on kickstarter, except doublefine is a solid company, and they know how to work under the pressure of a budget, whatever the game comes to they'll release it, and they'll document the whole process meanwhile for people who paid to see.

[dpaynter26]

Ill give them all the money i have if they give me a paying job :) lol

[commander_keen]

They shouldnt be in a place where they are reliant on publisher funding to make a game. The idea of a publisher to most people these days is laughable. Telltale has proven that the genre is not dead or even slightly unsuccessful.

[Zpanzer]

They shouldnt be in a place where they are reliant on publisher funding to make a game. The idea of a publisher to most people these days is laughable. Telltale has proven that the genre is not dead or even slightly unsuccessful.

Isn't pretty much any big studio now a days reliant on having a publisher to found a game? Thoose $300 million dollars project doesn't come fromm the studio's own pocket. Usually all the money lies with the publishers because of the deals they strike with the studios, much like how it's done in the music industry. "We'll give you all the money you need to pull of this project, in return we most likely take control over the IP and take a large cut of every game sold in order to return our investment".

I think using crowd sourcing is a brilliant idea, it will also allow Tim and Ron to have full control over how they want to develop this IP without having a publisher breathing down their necks in order to make sure the game can generate as much money as possible(read: dumbing down controls for consoles, bad ports etc.)

I can't see why this would piss anyone off. Just because they are a larger company with a well established background doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to find new ways found their games.

[commander_keen]

Its a good idea for a new company, but double fine has existed for many years and has made mostly good games. If they ditched publishers earlier they would have gathered a lot of money instead of giving it to a publisher. Most of their games dont actually require a publisher (digital distribution only) so there is no need for them. They should be able to come up with $300k for something they believe in. My main fear is that this will become a trend of big companies and take away from people who actually want to make different games.

[eld]

They shouldnt be in a place where they are reliant on publisher funding to make a game. The idea of a publisher to most people these days is laughable. Telltale has proven that the genre is not dead or even slightly unsuccessful.

Telltale found the niche and got into through having done many licensing-games and then scored a publishing and funding deal with gametap, they distributed sam & max exclusively to begin with.
Without that deal they would've never been able to do it.

Its a good idea for a new company, but double fine has existed for many years and has made mostly good games. If they ditched publishers earlier they would have gathered a lot of money instead of giving it to a publisher. Most of their games dont actually require a publisher (digital distribution only) so there is no need for them. They should be able to come up with $300k for something they believe in. My main fear is that this will become a trend of big companies and take away from people who actually want to make different games.

With what money?, they've been wanting to make psychonauts 2 for quite some time now, and it just hasn't happened because there's no money to get that project going.
The reason indie-developers can go without publishers is that they're incredibly small, and even then they are just as likely to crash and burn after one failed project, with their life-savings having gone into that project.

This IS good for everyone with big companies, they'll be able to make the games people want them to make, without publisher involvement, they will by definition become independent developers.

Publishing is not just about distribution, it's about actually funding the project, even digital-only projects have publishers! The recent projects they've been doing have been digital-only, but they still required publishing.

[commander_keen]

Yes, Im not against this one instance of Double Fine doing this, because of the publisher position they are in. They may not be able to afford to make the game they want to make, and this may be their attempt to break away from that, and if so good for them. Im concerned that every other company will do this same thing. For example EA/Bioware for Mass Effect 4 and create the same thing over again, because its all they know how to do, while someone who needs 1% of their budget and wants to make an interesting and different game gets no exposure.

[eld]

Yes, Im not against this one instance of Double Fine doing this, because of the publisher position they are in. They may not be able to afford to make the game they want to make, and this may be their attempt to break away from that, and if so good for them. Im concerned that every other company will do this same thing. For example EA/Bioware for Mass Effect 4 and create the same thing over again, because its all they know how to do, while someone who needs 1% of their budget and wants to make an interesting and different game gets no exposure.

As far as Bioware goes, it's not within EA's interest that they'll go do that, it's actually not within any publishers interest, nor is there any point for a company to try to grab $2 million on kickstarter when they can grab $50 million from a publisher.

It'll be independant(as in not owned by a publisher) game studios that wish to do something on their own.

It'll be creative projects.

[commander_keen]

If there is free money to be had Im sure publishers will be all over it :P

[gavku]

How is it free money? You're paying for a game upfront...

[Andreas]

Keen, you are as wrong on this issue as you are a ridiculously talented Unity developer... which is saying a lot :P

[poopinmymouth]

Its a good idea for a new company, but double fine has existed for many years and has made mostly good games. If they ditched publishers earlier they would have gathered a lot of money instead of giving it to a publisher. Most of their games dont actually require a publisher (digital distribution only) so there is no need for them. They should be able to come up with $300k for something they believe in. My main fear is that this will become a trend of big companies and take away from people who actually want to make different games.

I agree. I really look forward to this endeavor, but it doesn't seem very repeatable as a new funding method. There are maybe 10 people total with the fame and pull his name has, with a proven studio under their belt to ensure a low risk, high likelihood of the game getting made.

Kudos to DF and TS, but this doesn't actually seem like a new funding method for anyone but those who already had direct access to the old model of funding.

[ZacD]

There's a lot of indy games that get funded through Kickstarter, I'm sure if a small indy studio got a good gameplay demo and presented itself well, it could easily get $40k for a shorter project.

[seforin]

I honestly just hope we dont see other big studios doing this soon..like EA or something...to no offense I was hoping to put a project up in kick started in the next few months...but now after this...im afraid that the bigger studios will take this away from indies and when people go on kick starter they will look for a new game by a mid sized game studio and give them money as a preorder and guys like us who need a few G to develop will get over looked completely.

Im just hoping im wrong about this and maybe it goes in the opposite positive direction and the attention Double Fine has brought will make more people go to that site and see more smaller games and donate to them to see them completed so we have more original and fun IP's Existing in the main stream world!

[Noodle!]

It wouldn't work for them, and as people have pointed out there's no reason for them to do it.

[Justin Meisse]

there's already a proven method for unknown indie devs - have a playable version of the game and sell access to the beta.

Also, Doublefine is the second million dollar kickstarter - the first to break a million is an iPhone stand made by some guy named Casey: link (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hop/elevation-dock-the-best-dock-for-iphone). If you make something people really want, they will fund you.

Doublefine doesn't have extra profits coming in from engine licensing or a popular online game store. They are like every other studio, they have just enough money to carry them between projects, luckily they were smart and switched to multiple small projects when Brutal Legend 2 was canceled - if they didn't it would have been yet another studio closure.

If you've never worked in the game industry and believed they could of self funded this game, well, I forgive you. Anyone else is being naive, talk like that is fine for kotaku or youtube but this is a forum of industry professionals.

one last thing, the Doublefine thing is great, it's spreading word about Kickstarter. Prior to this, I've met indie devs who have never heard of it.

[commander_keen]

It would definitely work for EA. If they make a Mass Effect 4 kickstarter page it would probably make enough to completely fund the game... Thats whats scary.

I know exactly what its like to work at a company that cant fund its own games, which is why I never want to do it again. Most big companies cant fund their own games and need publishers because they are big, and their projects need lots of brute force development which is inefficient. A company that makes games on a smaller scope can hire multi-talented people and work much more efficiently. Plus with big companies, and sometimes even small companies you have too much upper management sucking away money without actually contributing anything to the product.

[EtotheRic]

Its a good idea for a new company, but double fine has existed for many years and has made mostly good games. If they ditched publishers earlier they would have gathered a lot of money instead of giving it to a publisher. Most of their games dont actually require a publisher (digital distribution only) so there is no need for them. They should be able to come up with $300k for something they believe in. My main fear is that this will become a trend of big companies and take away from people who actually want to make different games.

Yeah I can understand where you're coming from. I was reading through the kickstarter FAQs and guidelines and they don't really address large companies using their service. I am curious if publicly traded companies have prohibitions limiting where their funding comes from.

[eld]

It would definitely work for EA. If they make a Mass Effect 4 kickstarter page it would probably make enough to completely fund the game... Thats whats scary.


No, it doesn't work that way, you'll find that most people did not pre-order the mass effect games, but bought them when they were released. It's not viable in any way for a giant publisher, but it is viable for small projects like this one.

More companies will jump on board, but it wont be publisher, and the companies that do wont be owned by publishers, it'll be companies that wish to develop more independantly without publisher-pressure.

Even a very humble psychonauts 2 is not going to be funded by kickstarter, it'll require 15 times the amount of this recordbreaking kickstarter project.

Ever wondered why EA or Activision haven't jumped on board humble bundle yet?


I know exactly what its like to work at a company that cant fund its own games, which is why I never want to do it again. Most big companies cant fund their own games and need publishers because they are big, and their projects need lots of brute force development which is inefficient. A company that makes games on a smaller scope can hire multi-talented people and work much more efficiently. Plus with big companies, and sometimes even small companies you too much upper management sucking away money without actually contributing anything to the product.

You're having quite a grim perspective on games, management can be good, specialized people are not a bad thing, big projects can give us games that have a bigger scope and production value as well as create a ton of more jobs.

The difference between a small company that can fund its own games and one that needs a publisher is that the small company might only hire one artist, while the big one will probably hire several dozen.
What they both have in common is that one failed product is enough to make it crash and burn.

[Hristo Rusanov]

It would definitely work for EA. If they make a Mass Effect 4 kickstarter page it would probably make enough to completely fund the game... Thats whats scary.

If BioWare wants to make Mass Effect 4 or something different without publisher money i'm totaly in :)

[ambershee]

Bioware can't do anything 'without publisher money'. All six of their offices are wholly owned by EA.

[Justin Meisse]

The "I'd never want to work there" comments are odd: a fairly big independent studio that can survive losing a publisher and project cancellation without laying off anyone? A studio that set aside 14 days for the employees to form mini teams and come up with new games to boost morale? Yeah, sounds like a horrible place.

[ErichWK]

Working at Double Fine sounds amazing...

[Jackablade]

Well, here we go folks. Obsidian are now looking at developing something via Kickstarter.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/10/obsidian-want-to-know-what-you-want-them-to-make/#comment-page-8
Personally, I'd like to see Chris Avellone do another existential RPG. It doesn't necessarily have to be in the Planescape universe and definitely shouldn't be a direct sequel to Torment. Just something with a bit more going on than the average cliche riddled RPG.

[skylebones]

David Jaffe mentioned considering it as well.

http://kotaku.com/5884350/outgoing-twisted-metal-creator-would-consider-kickstarter-funding-for-his-new-project-too

[teaandcigarettes]

Well, here we go folks. Obsidian are now looking at developing something via Kickstarter.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/10/obsidian-want-to-know-what-you-want-them-to-make/#comment-page-8
Personally, I'd like to see Chris Avellone do another existential RPG. It doesn't necessarily have to be in the Planescape universe and definitely shouldn't be a direct sequel to Torment. Just something with a bit more going on than the average cliche riddled RPG.

Oh hell yeah. I was just about to write that if someone made a kickstarter project for an RPG in the vein of Baldur's Gate/Planscape Torment/Icewind Dale/Arcanum I would give them money in an instant.

Make it isometric, give me tons of often pointless dialogue options, witty writing and a tactical combat system and I will pay for it double.

[commander_keen]

Well its unknown how well a big hype project like Mass Effect 4 would do, but considering that Double Fine made over 1.6 million already for something that is "unpublishable", its hard to imagine that something as hyped as Mass Effect wouldnt make many times more than that if it was threatened to be the only way the game will be made.

Even if it was possible for a big company like Bioware to ditch their publisher (or owner) the resulting game wouldnt change because they are already trained to design in a certain way.

And Im not against having high budget games, its just the number of them is getting a little ridiculous these days. Without the pressure of conforming to the established market, games tend to be designed around fun instead of how the market data says they should be design. In my opinion thats why games 8 or 10 years ago were more fun, developers didnt take their projects so seriously.

[Zpanzer]

Well its unknown how well a big hype project like Mass Effect 4 would do, but considering that Double Fine made over 1.6 million already for something that is "unpublishable", its hard to imagine that something as hyped as Mass Effect wouldnt make many times more than that if it was threatened to be the only way the game will be made.

Even if it was possible for a big company like Bioware to ditch their publisher (or owner) the resulting game wouldnt change because they are already trained to design in a certain way.

And Im not against having high budget games, its just the number of them is getting a little ridiculous these days. Without the pressure of conforming to the established market, games tend to be designed around fun instead of how the market data says they should be design. In my opinion thats why games 8 or 10 years ago were more fun, developers didnt take their projects so seriously.

I believe it would be totally impossible to found Mass Effect 4 through kickstarter, we talk about a budget atleast 50 times as much Double Fine has gathered so far. I suspect it costs around 100-120 million dollars to develop a game as large as a mass effect game and with the same ammount of voice acting, and then probably alot more for all the marketing and such afterwards.. I seriously doubt that it would possible to gather that ammount of money from a kickstarter project.

The reason for the large ammount of high budget games now a days is a direct result of the video game industry is starting to be seen as a high profitable industry, more and more people want in.

[eld]

Well its unknown how well a big hype project like Mass Effect 4 would do, but considering that Double Fine made over 1.6 million already for something that is "unpublishable", its hard to imagine that something as hyped as Mass Effect wouldnt make many times more than that if it was threatened to be the only way the game will be made.


50.000 backers already, which would be considered an incredibly massive failure if that was the sales for a triple-a game. even $2 million is a tiny budget.

You're trying to prove something as a fact which for various reasons won't happen.



Even if it was possible for a big company like Bioware to ditch their publisher (or owner) the resulting game wouldnt change because they are already trained to design in a certain way.


Possibly, but possibly not, it's easier to think about making a game than worrying about making the investment back when you've already got the investment in there. And are focusing on making a game especially for the people that backed a project.

There are a ton of smart and creative people working on these big projects, but they do design them in ways to make money, not because it's the only thing they know, it's a bit belittling to suggest they all are.


And Im not against having high budget games, its just the number of them is getting a little ridiculous these days. Without the pressure of conforming to the established market, games tend to be designed around fun instead of how the market data says they should be design. In my opinion thats why games 8 or 10 years ago were more fun, developers didnt take their projects so seriously.

This has been disproved multiple times, mainly by the fact that people are having a ton of fun in games even today, and that shitty games were made back then, that and we have a super big thriving indie-scene that filled in that other missing part of the industry, there's a big range of games out there for everyone, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

8 or 10 years ago games were still made the same way, publishers invested, games were often streamlined, we got shitty games, we got awesome games. Companies went down, companies started up.

[3devo]

what it think is really pushing it over the top is tim shafer and ron gilbert's name attached. this kind of model seems to work (minecraft, overgrowth, natural selection 2 etc.). problem is i can see it one day someone going to promise big and completely fail to deliver, or deliver the game and find out that the preorderers were most of the audience(ie little to no profit). that said i'm quite excited by this, and really hope it turns out cool.

[Zpanzer]

what it think is really pushing it over the top is tim shafer and ron gilbert's name attached. this kind of model seems to work (minecraft, overgrowth, natural selection 2 etc.). problem is i can see it one day someone going to promise big and completely fail to deliver, or deliver the game and find out that the preorderers were most of the audience(ie little to no profit). that said i'm quite excited by this, and really hope it turns out cool.

on the other hand, with all the money paid up front, they don't have an investment to return using profits from the game, all the profits from the game go directly to founding a new one instead of paying the debt.

[Alberto Rdrgz]

PSYCHONAUTS 2!?
http://epicbattleaxe.com/notch-offers-to-fund-pyschonauts-2-with-tim-schafer/

[Justin Meisse]

Giantbombcast mentioned Doublefine was prepared to fund half of their $400,000 budget because that's usually what you have to do on Kickstarter: fund a big chunk of it yourself so it meets the goal.

[monster]

I think there will be an influx of mid-size game studios trying to fund games on Kickstarter or something similar. But it will pass, because it won't work most of the time. DoubleFine had a perfect storm of events.

1. Big Publishers abandoned the Adventure Game Genre over the last decade.
2. Tim Schafer is practically the father of adventure games.
3. Tim and DoubleFine have a larger than average loyal fan base.
4. Tim and Notch made headlines the day before the Kickstart discussing Psychonauts2 on Twitter.

Big publishers won't get involved for two reasons. They don't need the money, and if they did they would be expected to expose their internal development processes. And if Big Publishers love anything more than money, it's their dirty secrets.

[ambershee]

I get the feeling #4 wasn't a coincidence. Well played, in that regard.

[Jeff Parrott]

Also it works cause he's Tim Schafer. He's been on the Jimmy Fallon show. Most studio heads can't really say that.

[skylebones]

Not to mention Ron Gilbert the creator of Maniac Mansion and Monkey Island works at double fine as well. Having both Tim and Ron working on an adventure game is hugely exciting for adventure game fans.

[glottis8]

I wonder what style they will go with... hand drawn with some 3d? hand drawn only? i kinda miss the curse of monkey island style... but i love full throttle where they have some 3d. I am looking fwd to this tho. It'll be great.

[Jackablade]

Well, they just passed 2 million dollars with a smidgen under 60,000 backers and 22 days to go. Think they've got another million in them?

[Xoliul]

Lol, looking at their original estimate, they could almost do 4-5 games with that money

[Jeff Parrott]

Maybe they'll do a series of them like Telltale does.

[Weirdboy]

I think there will be an influx of mid-size game studios trying to fund games on Kickstarter or something similar. But it will pass, because it won't work most of the time. DoubleFine had a perfect storm of events.

1. Big Publishers abandoned the Adventure Game Genre over the last decade.
2. Tim Schafer is practically the father of adventure games.
3. Tim and DoubleFine have a larger than average loyal fan base.
4. Tim and Notch made headlines the day before the Kickstart discussing Psychonauts2 on Twitter.


I agree. I think a lot of people are paying more attention to the money generated without a publisher's funding and not focusing on why all that money was generated.

I'm working on a game project with a few bros and one of them suggested the kickstarter method to our lead guy. I had to voice my concern that we were all noobs who lacked Shafer's reputation, and therefore we would not be able to raise enough money.

[Justin Meisse]

I agree. I think a lot of people are paying more attention to the money generated without a publisher's funding and not focusing on why all that money was generated.

I'm working on a game project with a few bros and one of them suggested the kickstarter method to our lead guy. I had to voice my concern that we were all noobs who lacked Shafer's reputation, and therefore we would not be able to raise enough money.

If you make a product that people want you will get funding - look through the funded projects on Kickstarter. There are plenty of nobodies that are successfull, the first million dollar kickstarter project was just some guy making a solid aluminum iPhone stand.

There is a trend to the game section: card & board games seem to be the most successful, if you have a niche audience that is neglected by the big boys they will gladly dump buckets of cash on you.

[Muzz]

Kickstarter is just limited to people living in the us correct? Does anyone have any idea if they will be opening it up to more countries soon?

[Y_M]

Kickstarter is just limited to people living in the us correct? Does anyone have any idea if they will be opening it up to more countries soon?

I'm in the UK and I can donate, dunno if I can set up a project though.

[rube]

I think kickstarter still requires a US address to set up a project. You could use indiegogo.com though. They also don't require you to meet your goal before getting the cash so even if you only manage to raise $3 they still give it to you.

[rooster]

It's because they use Amazon Payments, so it's down to Amazon if they can open it up

[glynnsmith]

Tim Schafer's Reddit AMA has begun:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/qhk98/i_am_a_tim_schafer_ask_me_about_loom_or_anything/

[luke]

well it just ended!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66710809/double-fine-adventure

$3,335,325 ... not bad! :) wonder how much of that they'll see in their account, anyone know how tax or such works on this? (if it even does)

[PogoP]

That's an incredible amount of money. I didn't get to back it, I completely forgot.. Damn :(

[Bigjohn]

well it just ended!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66710809/double-fine-adventure

$3,335,325 ... not bad! :) wonder how much of that they'll see in their account, anyone know how tax or such works on this? (if it even does)

That's a really good question. I do wonder how that works. Logically, it probably shouldn't be taxed. I don't see how you can call it profit if they haven't sold anything in return. But I'm sure it will be taxed, if the Facebook IPO (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57371609-93/zuckerbergs-taxes-on-ipo-how-about-$2-billion/) is anything to go by.

[Seirei]

Well it's true isn't it? :P
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/16238937.jpg

[The Mad Artist]

Got in on the next to last day. Very cool that raised so much.

[Jackablade]

Mr Schafer enjoys your money.
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/08/this-is-kickstarter/

[SnowInChina]

he may have started something

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/355932838/crowdsourced-hardcore-tactical-shooter
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2

[eld]

First video episode is out! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66710809/double-fine-adventure/posts ( for backers ;) )

[Andreas]

http://m.kotaku.com/5904887/these-might-be-the-first-screens-of-tim-schafers-new-adventure-game/gallery/

Some lovely colour work, real subtle. Character is more complicated than the backgrounds though, they need to tone that shot down. I like his eyes though :)

[ambershee]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/169541/Kickstarter_game_funding_canceled_following_art_th eft_allegations.php

This is the kind of thing that will help pop the Kickstarter bubble.

[Justin Meisse]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/169541/Kickstarter_game_funding_canceled_following_art_th eft_allegations.php

This is the kind of thing that will help pop the Kickstarter bubble.

actually, that's part of how the community self regulates.

[eld]

actually, that's part of how the community self regulates.

Exactly, I think that scenario proved the kickstarter bubble to be pretty solid, most doomsaying comes mostly from people believing that people lost money with that, except the truth is that no money is charged until the kickstarter actually finishes.