Centaur Sculpting Exercise

[Goeddy]

Hi guys.
So its time for a new char.
This one is gonna be all about sculpting fun; i´ve been trying out some cool techniques and brushes but havnt been able to actualy use them for a character. so this one is gonna have lots of free space to fool around with :D

Its sort of a centaur, but the statue of his horse part is more like the one of a boar.
also his frontlegs are actualy massive humanoid arms and his rear legs are like catlegs.
and hes got horns.

there are some more sketchs incomming, but havnt had no way to scan em yet.

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/2679/hirschiesketch1.jpg

current state:
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8679/inengine1.jpg

[Jeremy Tabor]

oooo! I really dig what the angles of human arms give the silhouette. I think pushing the hind legs back a bit so the brunt of the weight would be forward and supported by those arms would make sense. Sorta like a gorilla y'know.... Or atleast, thats how my brain wants it to stand :)

http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/058/cache/western-lowland-gorilla-posing_5877_600x450.jpg

Really cool! I'm lookin forward to it

[Tenchi]

The arms for the forward legs is different for a Centaur, will be interesting to see it realised... #2 horns are my pick ^^

[Highelf]

I like the body sketch but the animal legs are very weird. You can't pick front legs and back legs from different types of animals imo, it doesn't work that way. (doesnt feel right :)) Looking forward to sculpt though!

[Goeddy]

@robat
:D that gorilla is lovely. i think its more about the pose here, but ill play around a bit with the back legs and see how that influences the shape. in the lowpoly it doesnt make much diffrence yet.

@highelf
well thats sort of the challenge ;) also maby i should mention that he will have no fur. also catlegs maby the wrong description for that i think its gonna be more like realy massive doglegs.

so i got the basemesh ready and im gonna go for sculpting now. horns will be done as seperate parts.

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/7892/basescreen1.jpg

[D4V1DC]

I like horns 2,5,& 7!

Coming along nicely.

[MrHobo]

Good basemesh. I finished up a Centaur esque sculpt a few months back myself.Even had the hands in place of the front legs too. I'd recommend you take a step back and re-think the proportions. I feel the animal portion could stand to be bigger and you might want to widen the shoulder/hip area too to give him a wider stance. Feels like he could topple over...

[tharle]

yeah the area where the 3 parts meet is going to be really key here i think - currently you've got some nice form in the arms, the torso and the back end but they sort of all just been in the middle. i reckon it's worth planning out the muscle structure here from the front view and trying to get the mesh flow to work with it, otherwise it might be a nightmare later.

[Goeddy]

hey thx for the heads up,
you guys have a point there so i changed the proportions a bit.
with the edgeflow im not realy shure, never head any problems in sculpting with the edgeflow apart from some resolution issues.
i gonna retopo this guy anyway in the end and get the edgeflow right then.
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/5560/basescreen2.jpg

[Goeddy]

so its time to get going, gonna have exams soon wich are gonna slow this down i gues... anyway keep going
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/5825/wipsrc1.jpg
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8439/wipsrc2.jpg

gues i dont have to mention this is sooo WIP. still 99% to go from here.

[DietCoke]

You know your anatomy! This is looking amazing so far. Question: in zbrush, what resolution do you get up to, and what sort of hardware are you working with? I'm noticing the teeth especially, and thinking that my computer would be choking to death on that much detail.
If I get a tool up past 5 or 6 million, zbrush takes a lunch break.
OR is it just that your sculpting is so boss that it only LOOKS like a billion polys?

[Goeddy]

@ Dietcoke
thx mate :D have to say that there are still some places im gonna rework anatomywise.
actualy im working at ca. 5,5 mil polys now. was thinking of maby going up to 20 but i gues im fine with 5 right now.
my machine is not soo beast just a usual quadcore, 4gb ram and geforce gts450.
if you got probs with the performance try blending out the stuff you dont need via ctrl+shift.
also get confi with layers. deleting and creating layers is much quicker then using ctrl+z.

[Lazerus Reborn]

so its time to get going, gonna have exams soon wich are gonna slow this down i gues... anyway keep going
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/5825/wipsrc1.jpg
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8439/wipsrc2.jpg

gues i dont have to mention this is sooo WIP. still 99% to go from here.

Didn't you like the ears? xP

Very nice design so far, the anatomy is looking pretty sweet, The abs should work pretty well with the ?shoulder? groin area.

[Fred2303]

Sweet stuff! Im following this ! :D

[DietCoke]

Haha, that is not what I wanted to hear. I have basically the same system as you! Ah, computers...

[Tenchi]

Looking really good so far! ...is the mouth going to be able to open up?

[EmAr]

Looks great! I'd give him wider and more flattened sternocleidomastoid muscles though.

[tharle]

needs more abdominals, but i guess you know that and just havent worked up that area yet. looking pretty sweet though - are you going to take it to full rigging and animation? would be pretty awesome to see it running but a hell of a lot of work!

[SCB]

Thats some great work with the muscle definition.

[Goeddy]

hey guys thx for all the motivating comments :)

@Dietcoke
well maby its the OS, im using win7 64

@Tenchi
thx, i think im gonna technicaly make him movable, but i wont sculpt the inside as you can see. so i dunno if im gonna be using that then. its not a lot extra effort since he just has to move his jaw ;)

@EmAr
i´ve been fooling around with this one, maby gonna redo him completely. not too satisfied with the current state either.

@tharle
yeah this is just the basic shape, hes gonna get a bit buffed as soon as i got his hands in shape.
i will fully rig him, animation is another thing though :P mostly i just pose my models do 1-2 animations and then i get sick of em and start the next one.

also been working bit on his breast and arms.
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/2030/wipsrc3.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6554/wipsrc4.jpg

[Goeddy]

soo its been some time since last update.
exams are over and i finaly got time for some more sculpting and looking for a job.
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/268/wipsrc5.jpg

[Tenchi]

He would give some major hugs... the body anatomy looks good, but like EmAr says the sternocleidomastoid muscle needs beefing up, looks too thin ^^

[Torch]

I don't know if anyone else will agree, but I have to say I find the hands at the front kinda distracting...I think its because you expect there to be hooves on the bottom of both sets of legs. Still it looks great, I'm sure you'll get a good final result!

[Snader]

I'm thinking the human part looks too big in comparison to the gorilla part. He looks to be built more for strength than speed, but his height looks like it might cause balance issues (and he isn't as fast to turn around as a biped) while his abdomen doesn't look really strenghty and good for wrasslin'. I reckon you could bulk him up quite easily by growing the human torso a bit lower into the gorilla.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/448525/keep/Polycount/gorillionhorsepigmanotaur.jpg

Sorry about the late comment, first time I noticed this thread.

[Goeddy]

@tenchi
okay i think this should be no big deal im getting to it
@torch
maby its right now cause of the t-pose. he will be standing like a gorilla in the and. but this is a risk i have to check, next update ill make quick transpose to see if its still distracting then.
@snader
excelent comment :) i must say you definetly got a point here wich i did not see before. but now that u mention it you are seriously right. will also be integrated into next update.

[Goeddy]

so im back to work again. heres an update.
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9279/wipsrc7.jpg

[Goeddy]

hp done
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2339/wipsrc8.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4111/wipsrc9.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7133/wipsrc92.jpg

[Endzeit]

Wow thats awesome!
How did you achieve this nice pattern on his skin?

[Goeddy]

@Endzeit
thats actualy very easy to achieve,
just masked the areas, inverted the mask and then went over it with low intensity clay-brush.

[Snader]

I think it looked nicer before the symbols. What are they supposed to be?

If you're aiming for something like tribal scars, you're going the exact opposite way. Scars tend to bulge outwards:
http://media.lonelyplanet.com/lpimg/23705/23705-8/preview.jpghttp://s3.hubimg.com/u/136142_f260.jpg
They're also not nearly as neat and clean.

[coots7]

the anatomy is believable nice work

[Goeddy]

@snader
good reference here. but the scars i was aming for are kinda diffrent. i dont know the exact term but its large chunks of skin cut out. depending on the location and size of missing skin parts the scars may turn outside or inside.
looks realy horrific in real life, ima experiment here with the diffuse.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bQ0SqifjNcg/Ss11YoIdEKI/AAAAAAAAEe8/llCcc3WRHfo/s400/scar-tattoo.jpg

http://news.bmezine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/20090810-life-scar.jpg


@coots7
thx mate :)

[illybang]

who the hell gets brass knuckles cut out on their calf... seriously. haha.

[Snader]

AFAIK cutouts also grow out.

before:
http://www.precisionbodyarts.com/ryan/ryan_23.png
after:
http://www.precisionbodyarts.com/ryan/ryan_22.png

edit: this forum needs something like [ hidden ] or [ nsfw ]. You might also want to swap your images for URLs, Goeddy, some people can't stand these kinds of imagery.

edit2 - also, that Life/Death ambigram is fricken' lame.

[Fred2303]

really cool sculpt! love the face and hands!!

[Fred2303]

and i do like the pattern but maybe some of them could be removed or just moved to acheive a better composition. i think the one on his back and top arms are very succesful and maybe the one on his lower ribs a little bit less. maybe try different shapes. anyway good work! do you plan to texture this?

[BrontoThunder]

I actually really like the markings, this guy is clearly some kind of demon or other hellish creature - I think they fit well.

Reminds me of Illidan from Warcraft.
http://images.wikia.com/wowwiki/images/d/d6/Illidan.jpg

[Ravenok]

I like the style. Looks really good. I'd work on the body's structure more, seems like it'd be really uncomfortable to move like that. Also I don't like his head :)

[Butthair]

This is looking nice goEddy. The skin stuff is fucked up, I love it. I picture a the visual appeal of how lava flows where the skin is sunken in, but with the color and look of flesh and blood.

To me, I've seen a lot of demon work, something about them and other demonic entities, dunno - but this is one that's for sure different from many others I've seen.

@ Blaken: I dig the head a lot. Especially without eyes, I hope he keeps it that way.

I really wanna see where your gunna go with diffuse. Also is this guy gunna have a tail of some sort? Just curious. I think the arms as his front "hoofs" could be bigger or somehow more muscular looking as it would hold a large amount of weight while standing, and moreso while running ( I picture this guy running around more like a awkward baboon or gorilla than an actual horse - due to how the palms would need to role, instead of tap).

It's a cool demon dude, further more, it's a badass looking centaur, and I'm not a fan of centaurs. Keep it going. :D

[Goeddy]

who thx for all the crits guys :)

@Snader
mhm looks you are right here. well lets say theese are some evil, magic, ritual scars and do therefore not heal, but constantly fight the healing process of his skin ;P

@fred2303
this is not the first go with the patterns :D i still dont like it 100% but from all the tryouts this turned out best.
and yes, im always doing the full pipeline, so hes gonna be baked, textured, rigged and animated

@Bronto Thunder
hehe one of my all-time favorites :) therefore his influence cant be denied

@blaken
i gotta aggree that the head kinda breaks with his style, but while sculpting this i recognized that i clearly want him to be more demonic, instead of the standart treehugging centaur. i think this is all gonna fall into place with the diffuse.

@Butthair
thx :]
hes gonna have some hair at his ass like a deer. and also some hanging from his belly, like a buffalo.
also his arms currently are realy realy big, maby the perspective is a bit tricky here.

you guys are realy motivating^^

[toxic_h2o]

Sick sculpt dude! I actually really like the patterns on the skin, they add some nice visual interest. cant wait to see this guy finished and posed!

[Snader]

@Snader
mhm looks you are right here. well lets theese are some evil, magic, ritual scars and do therefore not heal, but constantly fight the healing process of his skin ;P


Makes sense because he's an evil demonskull monkeytaur. *suspends disbelief*

[Goeddy]

so its been some time, but hes nearly done now. ca. 3200 quads 2048 tex
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1013/scrn1e.png

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4628/scrn2s.png
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/9876/scrn3y.png

[Oniram]

im sorry to say but the low poly and bake sort of takes away from what a good piece this was. it could be the lighting and rendering that is making it look bad but something seems way off from the high poly. what is this being displayed in? my first thought was UDK but im thinking maybe its a render from max or maya? maybe try tossing this into marmoset and play with some of the lighting settings in there. mostly what i think it is, is that the white color and bright light is just washing out all of the detail. if you've got an AO for this then just multiply it with a neutral grey in photoshop and save that as a temp diffuse.. that with your normal map and just a bit of specularity will definitely make this guy look so much better.

[Joopson]

Awesome sculpt- awful lighting.

[LRoy]

White on white with overblown lighting is not the way to go for presentation.

[Goeddy]

sry to disapoint you guys.
yeah its just a plain max render. just wanted to show the progress here, next step i´ll show a udk or cryengine shot.

[Super]

Interesting design although you have some muscles that don't make any sense I'm afraid.. such as the muscles going over what I presume is the radiobrachialis. I'd also re-examine the pecs as they aren't quite correct.

I do agree that it looked better without the symbols too, though I think the hands for feet kind of work when they are in the posed position just not sure about the back feet.

[achillesian]

maybe the worst presentation i've ever seen on those last ss's

[Fred2303]

the pose does read very well. you should go for a more neutral yet more imposing one. bumped chest , high chin, closed fists.. i dont really like the open mouth either.
it looks like theres some baking error in your hands too and it loooks like theres a couple of place that would need a little bit more tris .
you have a really great high poly , it would be sad to let a couple of things ruin it.
take all the comments that you have here and rework it and at the end you ll have a very nice character! :D
im following this so cant wait to see the next update!

[Fred2303]

it would be nice to see the wireframe too

[Snader]

Gonna echo the last couple of comments. It looks like we've stumbled upon the proverbial Yeti in a snowstorm.

Also, you could use a couple more tris to round out the rear thighs and ankles. Possibly the toes too.

[Goeddy]

okay so here goes the wire.
i cant realy decide between smooth edgeflow and going with the shape...
also i noticed the baking errors at the hands (and the horns) too, but this is the shit you end up investing most time in fixing but noone will realy recognize if you dont.
also the dif totaly wip, nothing but colored aos.
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6203/screen3xk.jpg
this is the lp with only the normal applied:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9032/screen4ip.jpg

[Oniram]

awesome. thats looking much better than the max render. the normals came out great.

[Goeddy]

now this is fun cause its actualy the max viewport :D
or maby you are trolling X)

[BrontoThunder]

No he's not trolling, it definitely looks better simply because we can actually see the model instead of just a blob of white. It's a really clean, nice bake.

[flaagan]

I'm gonna be honest... first thought in my mind after seeing the wip shots on the first page was "I wonder what a fat centaur looks like..." XD

[Oniram]

now this is fun cause its actualy the max viewport :D
or maby you are trolling X)

no not at all. more often than not your model will look better realtime.. either max viewport (with 3point or xoliul shader), marmoset, etc.

[jmt]

This is an interesting, unusual design and it's well sculpted. It reminds me of a cross between Skeletor, Beast Man and Battlecat.

How are you going to tackle the eyes? They sort of look like the only unfinished part right now.

[Goeddy]

@jmt
actualy im not shure yet, maby there will be light coming out of it, maby fire or maby blood flowing out of the holes.
i´ll first finish the diffuse and then see what fits best

[jmt]

This is pretty minor, but you might want to rethink the angle/curve/style of the smaller horns. I think that they would look better if they were angled lower to contrast with the larger horns. From what I saw in the most recent orthographic shots, I thought he only had 1 pair until I looked closer.

[Goeddy]

quick update here. also found out why the first screen are so shitty... max somehow gets confused with systems gamma.
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5940/scrn4.png

[Butthair]

I love this man. Colors are nice and smooth and the black and skin is a nice palette. You've lost that detail of the runes actually imprinted in the skin though, they get flattened out. That's my favorite part about it and it's starting to look more like painted on runes.

Anywho, keep it up, looking nice all the way.

[Goeddy]

so here another update think im atleast 90% done
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5797/scrn5.jpg

[Joopson]

I don't know, to me the texture doesn't look 90% done. For all the detail in the sculpt, the texture should lend itself to that. I mean, right now it looks like basic colours, AO, and some blood spatters and body-paint.
Just keep on truckin', I'd say. But, this may just be my taste- who knows?

Looks good, regardless!

[Goeddy]

@ Soopson
didnt mean the texture is 90% done, i ment the whole character is about 90% done :P

[Goeddy]

so i dont realy know if i can leave it with that.
what is your opinion on the blood? should i leave it like this or remove the blood?
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2387/scrn6.jpg
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7868/scrn7.jpg

[jmt]

Something about the overall colors could improved. I guess it is the amount of noise/loudness in the texture. He has a human skin tone base color, and on top of it black tribal tattoos, blood splatters, cuts, and white paint.

The horse tail seems kind of out of place. Something like a devil, bull, lizard or rat tail might fit the design better.

[Goeddy]

darn i didnt plan this through... now i got to pay for that.
not sure if this is much better, i addet some noise to the skin and cut all the blood stuff. also addet bit color balance.
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1685/scrn8.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4466/scrn9.jpg

[Fred2303]

he does look better with the noise. try to add more blue and red tone to the skin while keeping in mind the the more red part in the more muscular /vein areau and the more pale part in the bone area.
also is there areason why he is covered by paint? is he some kind of deamon/centaur/ painter? :D i think that this white color is covering the the nice sculpting details that you have under and make it too noisy with all the ''tatoo''. you could replace that by something more subtle/transparent
also one of the under arm have some disturbing stretching due to the pose (his left)
and i agree with the tail. or maybe chage the color to a brown/black color to fit more your color sheme.
anyway good work and im following this, cant waitto see it finish :D

[jmt]

I like the blue tattoo things more than black.
Is the white stuff on his face paint or bones sticking through?
His sternocleidomastoid muslces look disproportionately thin.

[Goeddy]

thx for the feedback. i applied the color variations to the skin, and recognized especialy adding blue veins realy made an impact.
also black tail now :)
i think he will by now be officialy named the demon painter.
original idea was some sort of war paint... but why does a demon need warpaint... and why - ah fuck this, hes white, deal with it :P

also mad the tats slightly bluer^^
also @jmt white stuff on the face is paint :)
and the sternocleidomastoid was mentioned some times before, i encreased his size, but yeah hes still way too small X(

anyway i took this where it belongs - into an engine - and he looks good :]
i think im there is still some potential in here, but i will leave it at this anyway. maby ill do some animations on him when i feel like animating.
right now there are more pressing matters, my portfolio realy needs environment.
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/8679/inengine1.jpg
finaly i´d like to thank all of you for the helpfull critique, i think you realy helped me improve this character.
i know he still has flaws but hes way better then what i could have achieved alone.
big THX :)