Arthas - lich king

[itismario]

*progress updates throughout thread*

Hugely inspired by FirstKeeper with her amazing Sylvanas, so I whipped this up. Many thanks to FirstKeeper. ( her thread here - http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76301 )

I still have to rig and texture him, but my texture work is nowhere near FirstKeeper's so I might just release an SDK of him.
*update*
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/arthasandbackground-2.jpg

default lighting

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3712/arthasnewnewposed.png (http://img245.imageshack.us/i/arthasnewnewposed.png/)

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3821/arthasnewturnaround.jpg (http://img716.imageshack.us/i/arthasnewturnaround.jpg/)

*old update*

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/newarthasposed.png

*old*

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/arthasfront.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/arthaspersp.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/arthasside.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/arthasface.png

Any crits encouraged and welcomed.

Thanks

[jimmypopali]

Well I always made fun of Arthus's face being so chubby and young looking. Doesn't look too menacing, but you have captured his face likeness really well.

One thing I noticed, he looks kind of on the short side. I don't know if this is the rendered angle or something, but to me he looks kind of quashed vertically.

[haikai]

Good start. Considering who it is, you might want to consider really beefing up his proportions. The in-game WoW model for the Lich king should probably give you some pretty good ideas.

[Raider]

He kinda looks like a dwarf proportion wise, i think that might be due to the belt been at like his chest :p

[James9475]

It's really solid recognisible base, but I feel like the proportions are really off.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/5469/804356-wowscrnshot_111308_100752_super.jpg

Biggest thing that jump out at me are width of shoulders, size of helmet relative to rest of body, size/shape of the stomach plate, height of boots, broadness of chest, length of legs.

Should be really good when these issues are fixed.

[robot erin]

Looking good, might pay to give the hands a little bit of reworking.
The section between the index and thumb is a little bit warped

:) keep going, looking forward to seeing the finished product

[Rhoutermans]

It's really solid recognisible base, but I feel like the proportions are really off.


Biggest thing that jump out at me are width of shoulders, size of helmet relative to rest of body, size/shape of the stomach plate, height of boots, broadness of chest, length of legs.

Should be really good when these issues are fixed.

I totally agree with you :)
Tho I do think the lich king looks kind of fat in WoW >.<
But then again...just sitting on that frozen throne of his if probably the reason, and eating all those cookies

It's a nice start, good luch on the model :))

[Sirdelita]

I agree aboutthe proportions

[itismario]

Thanks a ton guys for the critiques. I compared his length and in heads and I /facepalmed. Here's an update, added breastplate and made him more masculine in the upper region, made his shoulders wide and gave him more of a body-builder neck. Also quick playblast of turnaround.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/oldandnewarthasfront.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/oldandnewarthaspersp.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/newarthashead.png

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii-3VdfwiSQ

Any more critiques please? I hope I fixed up his proportions this time.

Thanks!

[haikai]

It's looking better although there are a few other things you might want to try like raising his shoulders and shoulder armor a bit so he feels more hulking. I think his shoulder armor should almost feel one with the helmet in terms of silhouette. The clear division between them makes it less impactful. The helmet seems very wide on the side compared to the width in front- hard to tell from these angles, but maybe this suggests that his actual head + hair is too wide on the side?

His upper legs and hips in front view seem to be lacking mass- maybe if the armor was a bit wider there? In general, he could probably be a little wider both in front and side. I suspect they made him a bit "fat" in the game in order to give him as much presence as possible. He's the biggest, and baddest dude around so you don't want him to feel like a normal human with armor on.

I'm not really digging the way the cape cuts in around the knees- maybe you could still keep it, but adjust it so the overall angle is still more straight.

[itismario]

Thanks much haikai. I love your work by the way. Thanks again for taking the time to critique. I did what you suggested and here it is.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/newernewarthascomparison.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/newarthasperspshoulders.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/arthasnewernewfrontlegs.png

I raised his actual shoulders and made them slightly broader, and then I raised the pauldrons a bit above how they used to rest on his shoulders, as well as making them larger and added made the right one bigger than the other to give a little better silhouette. I widened the front of the helmet and have a picture to show how wide it is from the side so you can get a better look. I made his thighs bigger in both axises, they're considerably larger but the waist cloth hides some of the inside of the thigh that gets bigger. Fixed up the cape too. Thanks again all for the critiques. Anything else (and what I failed to correct) please point it out, really appreciated.

Thanks!

[haikai]

Thanks much haikai. I love your work by the way.

Haha, thanks. Here's a quick comparison of your new model and the WoW Lich King model (I'm using the screenshot someone else posted because I'm too lazy to find my own):

http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz81/haikai/arthasTweaks.jpg

His helmet still seems a little too wide in side view... His helmet in general looks a bit off to me, but I'm not familiar enough with the design to give much detailed feedback on it. Or maybe it's just too big in general?

Note the nearly continuous mound shape formed by his shoulder armor and down the arms. It makes him feel massive and intimidating. Your model has too many breaks in that line.

Several other parts could be increased in size such as all of the skulls, the belly/belt armor, and the gloves and thigh pads. His breastplate would also need to be adjusted. WoW's art style isn't particularly detailed, but the points of detail, though few, are often large and demanding of attention. Also notice the more aggressive shapes on the thigh armor.

Thanks again all for the critiques. Anything else (and what I failed to correct) please point it out, really appreciated.

Hey, no problem. There isn't always a clear right or wrong way to adjust this stuff, but sometimes just a few tweaks here and there make all the difference. Once you start painting... that's where the real hard part begins! You may find yourself adjusting the meshes again after you start painting anyway so don't worry about getting things perfect right now.

[madmuffin]

This is looking really good, and maybe to mimic haikai a little bit, the belt is definitely too small. In the WoW model, it practically touches the skulls on the shoulder pads. The chest plates come down too far because of this, and need to be shortened up a bit.

The only other thing that really sticks out to me is the helmet seems a bit too large. From the cinematics from Warcraft 3 and when Bolvar puts it on, it seems like that black opening part in the front goes down roughly just past the chin, but on your model it seems like it goes twice the distance off his face with his eyes looking tiny compared to the eye holes.

Great work so far though, can't wait to see it posed.

[itismario]

Thanks again haikai, I'll get right on those adjustments, same thanks to you madmuffin. While I was waiting for replies I went ahead and rigged him.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/arthasposedtestz.png

I'll get on those changes now though.

Thanks guys =)

[Darkmaster]

lookin awesome man! can't wait to see this thread develop!

[itismario]

Ok, hope I got it good this time. Tired, gonna let the pictures talk for me. Thanks for crits guys!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/arthasrefpics.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/arthassuperturnaround.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/newarthasposed.png

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/newarthasposedfront.png

Anything else let me know, otherwise I think maybe it's texture worthy for now?

[Dean]

Better, good progress. As far as crits are concerned, what caught my attention are the upper legs *EDIT: Thighs. Thanks James;)* they look a little weak/lean compared to the bulk that the WoW model shows off.

Keep going!:)

[James9475]

It's really come a long way, only thing that stands out now really is the thighs, don't feel too powerful and the armour feels a bit like its sort of stick on. I think this is going to turn out very nicely.

[Jungsik]

O GOD plz texture it alrdy :3 it looks nice

[itismario]

Sorry I've been so slow, had a lot of due dates for class. Had to re-rig him and UV him. Anyone know a good tutorial for being able to control capes? Here's what I've been able to squeeze in so far. Like I said my texture work Isn't great, so need lots of critique. =)

Really not digging the breastplate rims the way they look on him. It might be because I don't have raised edges on the geometry?

Also fixed the thigh armor and thighs. Thanks guys.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/itismario/texturewip.jpg

Thanks guys!

Oh, and is there any other tool besides the forward warp tool under liquify to warp parts of the texture? Sometimes I need to warp the texture so it will better fit the mesh.

[haikai]

Anyone know a good tutorial for being able to control capes?

Why not good old fashioned bone joints? Especially if it's just for show.

Really not digging the breastplate rims the way they look on him. It might be because I don't have raised edges on the geometry?

I don't think you need much geometry at all. You'd be surprised what you can get away with by just painting the hell out of a simple surface.

Oh, and is there any other tool besides the forward warp tool under liquify to warp parts of the texture? Sometimes I need to warp the texture so it will better fit the mesh.

Liquify is already a pretty powerful way to adjust pixels. Another way to do more broad adjustments is to select the area you want modified and press Ctrl T to enter the Transformations mode. Then Right Click the selection and switch to Warp mode which will put you into a 3x3 grid that you can adjust by manipulating any part of it. I generally do this first and the Liquify for fine tuning.

However...

In this situation, where it sounds like you've already laid out your UVs in a specific way, there may be other possibilities. I presume the reason why you're painting out the pieces flat like this is because you don't have access to a 3d painting application? If this is so and you want to paint out the pieces flat out separately (which it looks like you're doing), you can just duplicate your meshes and then assign your unadjusted texture to the duplicate. Adjust the UVs of the duplicate to match the TEXTURE (instead of the other way around). Then transfer the diffuse information of the duplicate back on to the original mesh using Maya's Transfer Maps window. This actually works extremely well and I use it quite a bit. Of course the texture will be resampled as Maya figures out how to fit your texture onto your UV layout, but this generally isn't a problem if your resolution is good, and I expect having to touch up some areas wouldn't be a problem after the placement has been taken care of.

Regardless, I do recommend taking a look at some 3d painting applications like BodyPaint 3d or Deep Paint (last I checked Photoshop's 3d painting was still behind the times, but maybe it's better in CS5?).

As for your actual painting, It's not looking bad at the moment, but I would try to think more about your shading. In order to get rich looking results you often can't just go from the local color of the object to a simply darkened or lightened version of that color. You should experiment with the color temperature as it transitions to highlights and shadows. There's some color theory out there that can help with this idea, but you can learn quite a bit by observing how different materials behave in light through references.

Also, think of the shapes as a whole. The leg armor for example: It's a bit flat looking even though you've painted some ridges on it. You can cheat things a bit more by slightly shadowing the left and right sides so that the middle pops out a bit more to suggest the curved shape of the piece as it wraps around the leg.

You can also add a very subtle gradient to the whole thing from top to bottom to help sell the scale of the object. Having slightly varying tones across a surface is pretty important or else your objects will feel like they're not really in an environment or that their scale is very small like a toy.

And lastly, I would try to preview your work in flat-shaded (No Lighting) mode as much as possible because the default viewport shading can be a bit misleading. If you can get your texture to look awesome without any external lighting or shading help then you'll know it's on the right track. :)

[frell]

heres a quick picture i made from the actual lich king model i exported from the model viewer. I dont know why you dont use that as a model sheet, you obviously dont have access to blizzard's concept artists.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/811/lichg.jpg

[itismario]

I'm still alive! Last week was finals and the release of final fantasy 14... so yeah...
Was busy this week but finally got around to working on him past couple days.

Many thanks again Haikai. Tried implenting everything you said, put gradients to show scale, and threw in some extra tones in the colors while smudging them around.

Thanks for the extra reference Frell.

About the 3d painting, I think need to get better at my 2d painting before I hurdle over to 3d. I learned a ton working on this. This was one big learning experience and critiques from you guys and friends have helped me a lot.

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3821/arthasnewturnaround.jpg (http://img716.imageshack.us/i/arthasnewturnaround.jpg/)

I worked on the helmet last if you couldn't tell... wanted to hurry up and finish XD. And I couldn't find that WoW rune font so I just copied pasted the rune letters from a picture. Also gonna touch up the thigh pads, I was first experimenting with how to add different color variations and it didn't turn out too good, but I haven't fixed it to the new yet.

I'm pretty happy with it so far, but critiques as always =D. I really regretting UVing AFTER I skinned him, really couldn't mirror uvs so I had a lot of wasted texture space

[butt_sahib]

Looking awesome....
Think you should probably reduce some tris on those ears. Maybe you could use them somewhere else on the face
dont forget to push the material definition more!!!

[haikai]

Nice job! For some reason the model in your image with the different views looks way better than the large posed shot. Perhaps you should spend a little more time lighting it.

I think the fur could use some more detail, and a lot of the metal is coming across as rock or something. I think painting in some more lighting and reflections would help. You may also want to consider making a specular map.

Was cool to see your progress on this though. I'm sure your next model will be even better.

[Taylor Hood]

I'm liking the likeness of this very likeable piece of work.

Well done, dude!

Details are pretty spot on.

[itismario]

Thanks guys for compliments. Regarding the metal looking like rock, I'm not really sure how to fix that, I really hope firstkeeper comes out with her texture tutorial soon >.<

I also have a question about UVs. I rigged and weighted him before laying out UVs, and now when I move him the UVs move too, unless I either delete history or delete deformer-history. If I delete history I lose my weights, and if I delete deformer-history the uvs are offset which is why in the posed picture the feet are all messed up and some other spots as well. I'm not sure how to fix this without losing my weights. I tried copying the UVs but when I do and then repaste them after deleting the history they marge to one UV square. I also tried exporting then reimporting the weight maps and that didn't work either.

The posed shot I actually didn't light, I just let mental ray render without lights, I'll fix that after I figure out how to fix the UV/rig problem.

[haikai]

Hmmm... UVs shouldn't be that problematic. Deleting non-deformer history should be the way to go, and I've never seen it offset UVs before. Are you sure all your UVs are on the same UV set? How exactly are you copying the UVs? I usually have success with Transferring them via the Mesh\Transfer Attributes window.

Have you tried this: Not sure which version of Maya you're using, but Skin\Edit Smooth Skin\Copy Skin Weights works pretty reliably these days without having to export them. Try duplicating the meshes, deleting history on the duplicates, and running Copy Skin Weights from the original meshes to the new ones. If it works then you can ditch the originals.

[Junglehermit]

A quick note about copying skin weights from one mesh to another: this only works if the target mesh has the same joints skinned in its skin cluster. I'd suggest opening the hypergraph and graphing the connections on your source mesh, selecting your target mesh, adding the graphed joints to your selection and then running a smooth bind operation.

Mental Ray seems a little over-kill for a diffuse model, I think :P It would help your texturing skills to not rely on any lights for now and just make it look awesome in flat-shaded view.

I think you have a pretty solid base for the metal, but you could push it further from the rock look by defining the light source a little more, as well as introducing some slight anisotropic highlights. For example, if you look at his chest piece from the front view, you could make the highlight on the inner part next to the gold bevel a little hotter and then add a light "streak" running vertically as it gets closer to the side.

I think the gradation of lighting you have on his left pauldron worked out pretty well, and it would be nice to see that in other areas, especially his helmet and pants. Right now in your flat-shaded screenshot, those two areas stand out the most because of how even the tones are. They're missing the dimension that other pieces of your armor have, and if you pushed the forms on everything else even further, your model would look a lot better.

Another overall lighting pass that has objects casting shadows on each other would help unify all your separate elements. Like his helmet could darken his face, and if his cloak/shoulders will never be removed, you can have those cast a shadow onto his arms and chest as well.

Even if you decide to work on a different model, I think you made some nice progress on this model from when you started. Keep it up, and I hope to see your next model soon :)

[itismario]

Thanks both junglehermit and haikai. Very appreciated for all the information, will help me a lot in the future.

I think I want to call him done. Between school and other stuff I want to do, I rather not work on him anymore. I rather apply what I've learned from him to future models.

Thanks a ton guys again!