Lets TALK about MAC and PC. [Archive]

STRIKER

07-28-2010, 02:39 AM

My dam pc computer has been failing on me recently, i got it lets say about a 1 1/2 years ago. So you would think my computer would still be working fine......which its not. So i'm kind of fed up with these pcs failing every couple years. i have dusted and cleaned my own and had no viruses, so i'm pretty stumped on why the hardware failed. I am not a pro pc or mac, i try to see what will benefit me in the long run.

Mac is a simple machine to the eye but is powerful. Basically virus free, hardware and software built by apple. and they last for awhile.

Pc can be more powerful overall but in the end they die quicker by either short-lived hardware or virus infected software. So in general, their end is pretty dramatic

Basically,what i think mac is a superior machine cause of the care in building it. and now with the new imac, it comes with a quadcore, i7, 4-16 gb ram, ati card (forgot what exactly), and 1tb hardrive. You can also get bootcamp and run all windows programs(theirs your 3d programs) so with the specs, i think the 3d would come smoothly and you will have a machine for a long time.

sooo i might get a mac? i know its more money but hey it will save me money in the long run from buying parts http://www.gameartisans.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif PLZ i know most of you are probably pc users lol dont hate and try to see both sides. I just want to know which one i should get for me.

r_fletch_r

07-28-2010, 02:53 AM

From personal experience Mac reliabilty is no better, the hardware is the same branded hardware you get in a PC. I think perhaps the switch to Intel has changed things in that regard.

I own a Macbook pro and if you open it up its all regular brand PC parts. Realtek, Nvidia, seagate, intel.. and so on. The build quality is great in some places but some parts are actually cheap shit. the fans for instance are quite terrible noisy unreliable pieces of shit. Its maddening how much Apple charge for parts which in a PC for the same brand are inexpensive(relatively speaking). To put it in perspective my last PC laptop lasted 6 years, my macbook just died after 2. I loved my Macbook but in hindsight i dont think it was worth the extra money

Get a solid PC with an extended warranty if your willing to spend more on it, that way you get guaranteed cover rather than relying on a hyped reputation

Also why are you relating viruses to hardware failure? they have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with hardware at all.. in any way... at all :)

Gilgamesh

07-28-2010, 03:03 AM

Lets not, it always ends up in a flame war.

Marine

07-28-2010, 03:05 AM

Things break, even Macs. If you want care and attention, build it yourself and don't buy cheap ass components, you'll save money and get exactly what you need

haiddasalami

07-28-2010, 03:06 AM

I dont like the macbooks. Work gave me one to do my work on and if you're on the go or anything and trying to do something, it gets really hot due to the fan exhaust being between the hinge of the monitor to the actual laptop. Just find a technical savvy friend. Replacing PC's aren't hard and yeah and no matter how great your parts are the one fact remains. Everything will die because this is the world of electronic. Wish Daft Punk would like drop through my roof right now...:(

r_fletch_r

07-28-2010, 03:06 AM

+1 ive had my custom built desktop for about 4 years. the only problem ive had with it was a coolant leak and that was my fault.

rumblesushi

07-28-2010, 06:47 AM

Macs are a joke, overpriced trendy crap :P

You'll get MUCH better bang for buck with a PC, especially if you build your own, and like fletch said - they use the same core components anyway.

haiddasalami

07-28-2010, 07:02 AM

Macs are a joke, overpriced trendy crap :P

You'll get MUCH better bang for buck with a PC, especially if you build your own, and like fletch said - they use the same core components anyway.

I went over to the apple store to check out their mac displays (saw one of them at work and wondered how much they cost), a 4870 upgrade was priced at 350$ when you can get a 4890 for like 200$. :poly142:

Justin Meisse

07-28-2010, 07:08 AM

I helped maintain a Mac network for about 3-4 years, it was way less of a headache than a PC network. So if you aren't comfortable building your own PC I'd say go with a Mac.

The only downside was that repairs/returns had to go through the Apple store which was about 2 hours away from our office.

r_fletch_r

07-28-2010, 07:13 AM

haiddasalami

07-28-2010, 07:31 AM

haiddasalami: During an extended nights work(read as: LAN Gaming) using my MB pro i was left with a burn/blister on my leg below the CPU. I put it on a table after that.

Yeah I've resorted to placing it on a book when I take the bus ride back home. That way I dont get burned on my legs lol.

@Justin: Setting up networks in Windows is a snitch (well on a small scale) unless you run into firewall/router problems then banging the router does the trick. :poly124: though I do like how Mac's are already set up out of the box for being file servers.

Justin Meisse

07-28-2010, 08:55 AM

haiddasalami: During an extended nights work(read as: LAN Gaming) using my MB pro i was left with a burn/blister on my leg below the CPU. I put it on a table after that.

Justin: was that the old PowerPC macs or Intel machines? I've heard more complaints from my mac friends since the switch

our classifieds department ran old PowerPC macs while production (graphic designers) ran Intel G5s and we transitioned all the reporters to Mac Mini's. If I can remember correctly we ran 2 Xeon Xserves. Didn't have too many issues but that was in 2007.

@haiddasalami: yeah, wasn't saying it's hard to set up a windows network, we were primarily a Mac network but a few PC's got thrown into the mix because of proprietary windows only software and an exec that refused to use a Mac. Since I was "the PC guy" it was my job to keep the 3 or 4 PC's from bursting into flames.

pior

07-28-2010, 10:51 AM

Heya

What I did last year was to simply split away tasks on different computers. I use a Macbook (not Pro) for everything internet related. Browsing, uploading, downloading, streaming music and videos, and so on. I honestly think those are by far the best machines at that. Scrolling with gestures is awesome for instance, and its just very good at handling many windows. Just, dont use Safari, its surprisingly bad even on Mac. Chrome is amazing on it, much more steady than the PC version ... or so it feels.

Also, you wont risk much virus stuff. I know its not a real feature and just a consequence of the platform being targeted less, but its still true. I never felt the need for a clutter-cleaning reformat so far, its pretty badass and I am still wondering how this all works!

Now on the PC stuff. Do yourself a favor and split your main computer in two :

One OS for the serious stuff that you need to run steadily at all times (That shouldnt be too many programs : Photoshop, one threedee app, one sculpting app) and install nothing else on it.

Then on another OS, on another hard drive, put all your games and all the unrelated stuff you dont need everyday or that you want to try out just for the sake of it. Whenever you need it you can multiboot to it, and then you'll be able to format that partition any time you need and loose nothing crucial, while still being able to work on the other one.
I am reformatting my games/shitty partition just today hehe. And the Work partition still runs like a champ and I dont need to touch it!

Hope this helps!!

BlackulaDZ

07-28-2010, 11:05 AM

i'm gonna also +1 for custom builds. If you build a nice system and the parts aren't DOA or damaged, it will last a while as well as save you money; and as far as viruses go, if they give you tons of trouble its usually ones own fault. I used to have lots of trouble with viruses until I realized downloading lots of random crap was not a good idea.

bbob

07-28-2010, 11:08 AM

Now on the PC stuff. Do yourself a favor and split your main computer in two :

One OS for the serious stuff that you need to run steadily at all times (That shouldnt be too many programs : Photoshop, one threedee app, one sculpting app) and install nothing else on it.

Then on another OS, on another hard drive, put all your games and all the unrelated stuff you dont need everyday or that you want to try out just for the sake of it. Whenever you need it you can multiboot to it, and then you'll be able to format that partition any time you need and loose nothing crucial, while still being able to work on the other one.
I am reformatting my games/shitty partition just today hehe. And the Work partition still runs like a champ and I dont need to touch it!

Hope this helps!!

Dude, thats a pretty excellent idea! Thanks, I'mma do that :D

r_fletch_r

07-28-2010, 11:33 AM

Another nice option for virus protection is to run your Internet apps in a VM. You make a read only copy of your disk image and make a copy of it now and then.

haiddasalami

07-28-2010, 11:37 AM

Another nice option for virus protection is to run your Internet apps in a VM. You make a read only copy of your disk image and make a copy of it now and then.

Sandbox is another great program to get. It sections off a piece of your HD (not a partition) and you can run applications in sandbox mode.

r_fletch_r

07-28-2010, 11:40 AM

Theres VMWare, Microsoft Virtual Machine and loads more. Virtualisation is really handy

STRIKER

07-28-2010, 01:52 PM

crap i want to replay to all of you guys but ill try and sum it up. yea i know what you mean about the virus stuff, i know both can get them.

BUT what i read about macs OS, Mac rewrites their code for every new operating system making it hard for most hackers to crack. im not saying they cant be, but hackers or whatev dont want to take the time to try and crack it :)

while Windows leaves their old code and builds on top of it. and so prone to the same viruses over and over.

Bootcamp you have to get the windows OS and it starts up as windows :) its the real deal. What you can do what i read, saw, and watched you can split your hard drives gb to however much you want for each

You can run any windows program no prob as long you have bootcamp. Also my gf family uses mac and her farther still has all the macs he has purchased old to new. the old is now about 8-10 years old and works just like he got it.

i know a lot of the problems would be price too but like you i was like yea that's fkn expensive but i thought about it, i read and saw reports on how long a mac last compared to PC. So take a mac that can last 4 and up yrs and PC 2 and up yrs but both can go further with care, its obvious what will last longer. so if i bought one mac that can last 2 or 3 pcs and actually save money in the long run from buying a new PC or PC parts that will add up????!.

And again i'm looking into both sides, it is the mask of truth that we are most afraid to wear, in other words don't be stubborn and ignorant, that's what i'm trying not to be. I also saw that a lot of PC users said that mac has a lot of PC stuff in them but the main thing is which runs it better?? and what i read they have said mac does.

what i hear mostly about PC is POWER, how much put in and how badass, but im sure some is unnecessary some isn't. i don't need a transformer to do max and zbrush and all the fun stuff. i don't need a machine to gloat about.

And now hearing you can build your own mac also never thought you could but now you can.
Best of both worlds?? you can play any game to oldschool to COD np with the quad cores.

And again i know things break or design to fail, but what i seen and heard, not just my own experience, PC breaks faster :/ of course with care it will go longer....so will mac.

NONE of this is coming out of my ass, i simple read up and talked to people from both sides

r_fletch_r

07-28-2010, 02:25 PM

BUT what i read about macs OS, Mac rewrites their code for every new operating system making it hard for most hackers to crack. im not saying they cant be, but hackers or whatev dont want to take the time to try and crack it

Who told you that? Hacking is a sport for those guys. No OS is bullet proof and a New codebase means new undiscovered exploits. I would say that a total rewrite would increase the chances of there being dangerous exploits.
Infact at the moment they seem to be doing the worst...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/12/secunia_threat_report/

Unix is pretty secure due to its rights management but you cant really afford to be complacent

MALicivs

07-28-2010, 02:31 PM

sir, if every pc thou buy, fails after 1 and 1/2 year I'd say the problem lies not with the pc itself.

Ben Apuna

07-28-2010, 03:17 PM

I dunno about the 2 year PC lifespan thing, my PCs usually last about 7-8 years before needing to be put down. Of course they become horribly obsolete by that time for 3d work but they still run.

Just buy quality parts, they don't have to be top of the line expensive just reliable. In other words the least amount of heat and moving parts as possible.

If you want a virus free OS to access the internet on then Linux is even more secure than Mac.

That said I've seen some old Macs (power PC) take some serious abuse and still keep on working just fine, not sure about the newer ones though.

kaptainkernals

07-28-2010, 03:32 PM

I've had nothing but problems with macs not only the problems the macs give, but the grief they cause in other areas. Seen at least 5 of my friends flash drives getting fried by a mac, and one external getting it's partition nuked, and then only working on a Mac and any attempt to reformat to a different partition always failed.

Don't get me wrong, I love their UI, and the way they manage multiple windows, but honestly you can do the same with a PC. The other thing about Macs is their design, the look nice.

But as marine said, they seriously skimp of decent parts, and over charge you for what you are getting. The screen in the iMac is rubbish, unless you get the 27" or 30".

I'm been running the same PC since 2005, with small upgrades now and then, e.g. upgrading hard drive space, and memory, and graphics card.

I've upgraded my secondary drive, but my main drive is still the original 250gb I bought with the pc, as is the motherboard, and CPU, all of which have never given an ounce of problems.

The graphics card was upgraded due to my larger display, and memory was upgraded about a year after the original build (just added two more ram chips)

And the only mistake I made was skimping on the PSU - bought a coolermaster, sent it back due to a fault and got back a new PSU with the same fault - must have been a bad batch, the PSU lasted 2 years before dieing.

And the entire computer, main drive and backup drive is nuked every 6 months.

A properly maintained PC will last years, just defrag, clean the registry occasionally, and have a decent AV.

And most importantly, get yourself a surge protector or UPS if you don't already.

TerraBite

07-28-2010, 04:05 PM

In my opinion as I have grown up with Macs all my life and got a PC about a year ago, I believe that a Mac is a better choice in general. I don't want to learn how to build or take apart a PC. With all of the hardware and software failures that a PC comes with, it will add up to the cost of a Mac with no hardware or software issues for its lifespan. Having Macs all my life till recent, I have NEVER gotten a virus, installed virus software, or have had one die in any way. It's all about how you take care of it.

You can take top notch care of a PC and it will still fail faster than a Mac would.
Yea PCs are not bad, but in general, I don't see them as great. Macs do carry the awesome design and simplicity with it, but they also carry a lot more care. This is probably why they charge more. And price is not in my head, it's reliability and how LITTLE I have to buy new parts or call a geek to fix stuff or upgrade because my computer is already getting old. That should really be the last thing I have to deal with.

Macs defrag automatically - ones less thing for me to worry about as well.

So tell me, which is the more reliable pre-built system if I was looking at one? PC or Mac?

And if it's the same insides.....then why wouldn't you want a Mac?

DEElekgolo

07-28-2010, 04:30 PM

PC != windows.

Get a PC with windows and you can "get" mac on it or a flavor of linux on it.

Apple loves forcing a sense of "exclusiveness" onto its self.

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7476/70528018.png

STRIKER

07-28-2010, 04:35 PM

Racer445

07-28-2010, 04:38 PM

if you want to think you are better than everybody else, get a mac.

otherwise, be a smart boy and build yourself a pc.

DEElekgolo

07-28-2010, 04:42 PM

if you want to think you are better than everybody else, get a mac.

otherwise, be a smart boy and build yourself a pc.
You heard it folks!

Also. (http://deelekgolo.codebrainshideout.net/myface/)

TerraBite

07-28-2010, 04:51 PM

What if you don't want to learn how to make a computer and just get work done?

STRIKER

07-28-2010, 04:54 PM

if you want to think you are better than everybody else, get a mac.

otherwise, be a smart boy and build yourself a pc.

i would recommend you reading what i wrote and not starting a war. like i said i want to LEARN and not be IGNORANT..soo plz

DEElekgolo (http://www.polycount.com/forum/member.php?u=25547) - what is this? a hater forum of some sort. the net is full of these

Blaizer

07-28-2010, 04:55 PM

For what i pay for a mac, i get 2 "ROCK-SOLID HEART-TOUCHING" PCS, better than the mac. Vista and Windows 7 are quite good, i'd say excellent.

I have a workstation of more than 5 years, and it works like the first day. And Before that, i used to use a pentium 1700 mhz that still works nice, and with Vista. If you want a good computer, you MUST buy good pieces, and mount the PC by yourself.

Apple put the same care assembling computers as Dell as example.

Forget ATI for 3d work. Drivers are a shit, still, and as videocards, it seems like Nvidia are what the majority of apps ask.

Windows also defrags automatically. I really don't know what you do with your computers, but since W98, i didn't need to do a format :S. It's just to keep the OS and apps altogether in one HD, and the files in other HD.

Err, and with the defrag from auslogics (it's free), we can defrag really fast. If you have an old HD with bad perfomance, that's another question.

You are wrong if you think Macs don't fail. You should see the smile face of a poor guy with a mac book pro broken.

Linux is a good option as 2nd SO, it's fast!, and if you want, you can have it in a tiny memory stick with other portable apps.

TerraBite

07-28-2010, 04:57 PM

I don't want to build my computer or learn code, now what?

DEElekgolo

07-28-2010, 05:10 PM

I don't want to build my computer or learn code, now what?
Buy a pre-made PC.
Like a Dell or a HP.
Not that hard...

TerraBite

07-28-2010, 05:17 PM

Buy a pre-made PC.
Like a Dell or a HP.
Not that hard...

That's what I have.
My boyfriend's PC (same as mine) is failing right next to me.
HP Pavilion Elite Desktop, Nvidia GeForce 9800 GT, 940 QuadCore processor, 8 gig RAM, 750GB Hard Drive - $1400 plus $100 shipping
It's a year old, took care of it, got CCleaner and everything to protect and keep it good.
And that's why he is considering an iMac.
iMac 27" screen with 8 gigs of ram and a terabyte of space - it's now built for gamers (and most likely any super 3d software using Bootcamp).
He is the one that started this thread.

DEElekgolo

07-28-2010, 05:21 PM

That's what I have.
My boyfriend's PC (same as mine) is failing right next to me.
HP Pavilion Elite Desktop, Nvidia GeForce 9800 GT, 940 QuadCore processor, 8 gig RAM, 750GB Hard Drive - $1400 plus $100 shipping
It's a year old, took care of it, got CCleaner and everything to protect and keep it good.
And that's why he is considering an iMac.
iMac 27" screen with 8 gigs of ram and a terabyte of space - it's now built for gamers (and most likely any super 3d software using Bootcamp).
He is the one that started this thread.
Then why let the failure of one PC represent all PCs in general.
And anyone can tell you that 3d game art is more of a PC profession than mac.
But if I was to go further than that it would seem like a "casual vs hardcore" thing.
If you are really scared of viruses and such. Then get a PC with since you get get better hardware at a lower price, and install the Mac OSX on it to avoid viruses.

TerraBite

07-28-2010, 05:27 PM

Then why let the failure of one PC represent all PCs in general.
And anyone can tell you that 3d game art is more of a PC profession than mac.
But if I was to go further than that it would seem like a "casual vs hardcore" thing.

It's not just us though, we have seen soooo many more PC problems than Macs and this is our second time going through pages of research and threads deciding on what to buy. If it lasted longer without any problems, then I would give more props to PCs for solving software issues; but that is not the case.

We of course can use PCs but it is fact that Mac runs Windows better. I don't want to go off in another direction but I'm well aware than Pixar is an all Mac-based studio and so proves that Macs do 3d justice (with their award winning animated films). I'm sure they use Bootcamp to run some little programs that are not yet available for Mac users, but I know that the transition is upon us.

I don't care about either of their names at all. Both are computers to me. I want one that will work now, right, and last. Unless I hear something I haven't heard before about PCs, then I would definitely stick to it.

Racer445

07-28-2010, 05:28 PM

hey i'm just callin it like i see it.

if this was 1998 and we were weighing out the benefits of a PC vs a mac for price then perhaps i would side towards the mac, since the powerpc platform was legit fantastic, but macs these days are simply PC hardware with a fancy OS on it. the hardware is the same stuff that every other PC manufacturer puts into their machines.

you just gotta think, is the fancy OS worth all the extra money you could spend on something else? for instance a tablet, games, 3d software licenses, art courses, food, booze, etc.

if you are developing for games you will likely be using windows. if you are gonna run primarily windows on mac hardware you are totally wasting your money.

the only apple products worth the money are their monitors. even those are a bit overpriced, but hey you get LED backlit S-IPS monitors!

r_fletch_r

07-28-2010, 05:36 PM

This is getting a bit personal is it not. were falling into the this is what i like rather than the this is what this does arguments.

Macs cant run windows better than a PC, they are the same hardware with a different case and OS. they run windows the same.

STRIKER

07-28-2010, 05:39 PM

i know what you mean. lets get the obvious out of the way. mac is simple, the way it looks, the weight of it. i dont care about that shit attttttttt alllll lol but when i see and hear that it last longer, thats the thing. the OS for mac is better FROM WHAT IM READING. and have proof .

BUT from all the replies saying "their the same" i haven't heard this before?? i must of missed some info? would you plz send something that support this? facts lol

DEElekgolo

07-28-2010, 05:39 PM

It's not just us though, we have seen soooo many more PC problems than Macs and this is our second time going through pages of research and threads deciding on what to buy. If it lasted longer without any problems, then I would give more props to PCs for solving software issues; but that is not the case.

We of course can use PCs but it is fact that Mac runs Windows better. I don't want to go off in another direction but I'm well aware than Pixar is an all Mac-based studio. I'm sure they use Bootcamp to run some little programs that are not yet available for Mac users, but I know that the transition is upon us.

I don't care about either of their names at all. Both are computers to me. I want one that will work now, right, and last. Unless I hear something I haven't heard before about PCs, then I would definitely stick to it.
How would mac hardware runs windows better if both pcs and macs are essentially the same in hardware?
There is really nothing exclusive about a mac other than its operating system. On the inside, its hardware is still the same ATI graphic card, or Intel CPU that you can buy at a store so the performance differences are really over estimated when it all comes down to the operating system its self. I've been around a few boot camped macs, my sister even has one. I can see no performance difference on a mac compared to a pc of identical hardware.
The windows operating system its self, is capible of a large sum of production software and hardware, and its ability to adapt with nearly any combination of hardware is the reason why I stick to PCs and the fact that I can upgrade it easily rather than get an entire new computer all together. Also, I am using a 7 year old gate way computer with 512mb ram, 1ghert cpu, and 40 gb hard drive as a server. I keep it on 24/7 and during the 7 years of use, it has not failed me or this family once. The hardware on it has never been upgraded(obviously) and it is still able to fulfill my requirements as a server farm. The countless amounts of PC failures that you may see are at the fault of its popularity. If about 70% of the world used product A as apposed to product B. Then you will hear more about product A then you do B. That is a given. People have cars that break down every once in a while but they don't give up on cars and use scooters or bikes now do they?

r_fletch_r

07-28-2010, 05:42 PM

Im geniuinely interested in your proof that Mac OS is better. I use both and cant see it. they are both buggy and annoying in their own special ways.

TerraBite

07-28-2010, 05:44 PM

How would mac hardware runs windows better if both pcs and macs are essentially the same in hardware?
There is really nothing exclusive about a mac other than its operating system. On the inside, its hardware is still the same ATI graphic card, or Intel CPU that you can buy at a store so the performance differences are really over estimated when it all comes down to the operating system its self. I've been around a few boot camped macs, my sister even has one. I can see no performance difference on a mac compared to a pc of identical hardware.
The windows operating system its self, is capible of a large sum of production software and hardware, and its ability to adapt with nearly any combination of hardware is the reason why I stick to PCs and the fact that I can upgrade it easily rather than get an entire new computer all together. Also, I am using a 7 year old gate way computer with 512mb ram, 1ghert cpu, and 40 gb hard drive as a server. I keep it on 24/7 and during the 7 years of use, it has not failed me or this family once. The hardware on it has never been upgraded(obviously) and it is still able to fulfill my requirements as a server farm. The countless amounts of PC failures that you may see are at the fault of its popularity. If about 70% of the world used product A as apposed to product B. Then you will hear more about product A then you do B. That is a given. People have cars that break down every once in a while but they don't give up on cars and use scooters or bikes now do they?

So all I'm hearing is that it's a comparison of operating systems. I guess it's a personal preference - personally I want something that works and doesn't take a lot of time to think about or having to tear open my computer for something. The Mac OS is considered better though, that's why there are not as many viruses.

But if both were the same price and the same specs......then which one would you buy?

(then again that's a bad question, because bias people only have 1 answer) I gave PCs a chance and the chance that this one gave out so fast is an instant 3 strikes your out. No more chances. =/

r_fletch_r (http://www.polycount.com/forum/member.php?u=31662) - what causes it to go buggy?

Blaizer

07-28-2010, 05:44 PM

Building a computer is not so hard... it's like to toy with legos, in 1~2 hours i assembled my last machine and i installed Vista.

Said that, you also have shops in the internet where you choose your components, and you pay a bit more for the assembling and testing of all the components if you don't want to build your PC. In Spain, they charge us like 50 euro for all the work.

Buying a Mac is to pay the double. Do with your money what you want, and if you think Macs won't give you problems, go forward with a mac but don't come to troll us. But remember that If you have problems with PCs, you surely will have problems with Macs.

I'm seeing the advices are not being well received :S.

BTW, For Predators, they used AMD systems with FireGL. Do we need to use the same? no, we don't.

Edit: Viruses = Pirate apps/games, bad webs.

TerraBite

07-28-2010, 05:56 PM

I understand that this is all 2 sided and I cannot convince anyone to see my side because people have their set ways, but growing up with Macs with no problems and seeing PCs break down from elementary school all the way up till now just makes me a wee bit skeptical. And I guess until the day a Mac fails on me, then I will change my mind....but until then, I will have to buy a Mac and test its dignity.

r_fletch_r

07-28-2010, 05:58 PM

I will have to buy a Mac and test its dignity.

....eugh!

TerraBite

07-28-2010, 06:00 PM

....eugh!

Hahaha, I think it should treat me well. I will give it dessert every night! :)

STRIKER

07-28-2010, 06:04 PM

hahaha ok i dont want this to turn into war. i knew this would be dangerous :) so ill prob get an imac BUT just to see for myself right? and if it doensnt fight for its name then ill know who was deff right or lying or exaggerating stuff and send that shit right back.

thanks guys for the thoughts, just a curious dude. shit was like a verbal dominance war *PHEW* haha

r_fletch_r

07-28-2010, 06:08 PM

atleast we can all agree on innuendo

STRIKER

07-28-2010, 06:09 PM

indeed :)

Kwramm

07-28-2010, 06:59 PM

cause of the care in building it

you have NO idea how quickly my $3000 G3 Mac died... (and how shoddy some parts were assembled. Even the f***ing Mac dealer acknowledged it but didn't see it as grounds for a return).
As added insult, this was also the only machine that could NOT run OS X, even though they released it about a year earlier.

Seriously, Apple machines are made by the same companies in Asia which make Asus, Samsung, etc. machines. If the Chinese at Foxconn have a bad day, you'll find out when your hardware dies.

Get an apple if you like the OS, if you like the features, but if you think it's just better build quality, then I'm sorry to disappoint you. It's just the same as every other computer in the same price category. Sometimes quality is superior, sometimes not - just don't expect miracles.

Granted, my next notebook will be a Mac again - Win 7 tho with a little bit HDD left to OS X - and the other Apple products I bought worked reasonably well without faults. Yet I don't expect any wonders. Maybe you too should step out of the reality distortion field ;)

James Edwards

07-28-2010, 07:59 PM

Hey Terrabyte. I recently switched over to mac myself, coming from building my own pcs for the last 15 years. I started tinkering around on an imac, like pior a few years ago, basically separating out my personal computing needs from my professional, and gaming needs. I recently upgraded to the 27" i7 model and threw 8 gigs of ram in it. Runs like a dream, and I love using OSX. I'm running maya 2011, modo, silo, zbrush, blender, photoshop, sketchbook pro, 3dcoat, and tested mudbox 2011 on it too. Basically all the software I'd be using on my pc anyway. All run great for me. With the added perks of having steam games like TF2 and now starcraft 2 on it, I'm a pretty happy camper.

I didn't mind spending the extra money for the user experience myself so getting the best bang for my buck was not a concern. The i7 imac was a decent upgrade over my quad core 64 bit vista box I built a couple years ago too as far as performance goes. I prefer working on a mac myself and not having to worry about the system. Just got tired of tinkering with hardware I guess. I think the mac pros are overkill personally though. The new imacs are more than adequate machines.

mayaterror

07-28-2010, 08:28 PM

In the year 2000 my geeky friend from the graphics lab in college was always touting the supposed superiority of Macs. (We were working with Maya pre-Windows on SGI 02s) We had some PC video editing suites with Premiere, and my friend decided to show us all how the Mac was so much faster at rendering the same Premiere project. I was sold on the ability of his G3 to crunch certain types of data faster than a comparable PC. Combine that with the fact that the Mac didn't demand three-digit file extensions nor did it complain if frame numbers came after the file extension. Back then, Mac was a pretty good companion for an animator and I can totally see why it was relied on in industry. And I never saw any BSOD's on my friend's G3.

Flash forward to 2010, and I'm totally with most of you in this thread, a Mac is just more PC hardware in a pretty case for trendy idiots. I don't know why so many graphic designers and video editors still seem to think that a Mac is somehow superior. We have a computer lab where I teach that has 70 PCs and 8 Macs - and the Macs collect dust. The students ask why we have them and when I explain that people in the graphic design industry often use Macs, and it's good for them to know both, I get confused looks and blank stares. We usually turn the Macs off because their hard drives make this annoying high-pitched whine. That's all a Mac is now, a whiny, expensive, trendy whore of a computer.

BTW - those of you saying PC hardware doesn't last - I have a dual Pentium III system that I built in late 99 that still runs! I use it to play Divx movies on the TV. In all that time I've only had to replace a power supply. But I also did a few upgrades over the years...

Millenia

07-28-2010, 08:58 PM

IMO the only feasible way to get a 'Mac' is building your own rig with similar parts to a Mac build and installing OS X on it afterwards..

Saves you hundreds if not thousands of bucks. As a max user I'd never touch Mac though :p

STRIKER

07-28-2010, 09:06 PM

willy-wilson

07-28-2010, 10:33 PM

what are you going to be using it for, if you want to do any iphone stuff well you pretty much have to go mac if not ide say go for a pc, you will get way more for your money.

TerraBite

07-28-2010, 11:28 PM

what are you going to be using it for, if you want to do any iphone stuff well you pretty much have to go mac if not ide say go for a pc, you will get way more for your money.

He already came to a conclusion, make sure you read through the thread. :P

STRIKER

07-28-2010, 11:44 PM

Bibendum

07-29-2010, 01:02 AM

Sounds like you've made up your mind but I just want to clear something up, the reason why OSX has fewer viruses is not because it's a superior OS with better security, it's because the point of a virus is largely for it to spread itself which makes OSX an unappealing target since it's user base is trivial compared to Windows. What you're getting isn't really a vastly more secure OS, just one with better odds.

That said, I hope you're satisfied with whatever you purchase. I've owned 3 macs (2 notebooks and a mac mini) and they're simple and easy to use so if that's what you want, you'll definitely find it.

DEElekgolo

07-29-2010, 02:11 AM

eld

07-29-2010, 02:40 AM

Well, maybe he just wanted comfort (and safe porn browsing)

r_fletch_r

07-29-2010, 04:10 AM

while were talking about mac os could a Mac head tell me how to maximize my windows and how I can merge folders without deleting the contents of 1 in the process.

eg1
folder1 = [file1,file2,file3]
folder2 = [file1,file4,file5]

merged = [file1,file2,file3,file4,file5]

When I drag and drop in finder I loose the contents of 1 folder in the merge.

These 2 things are driving me nuts.

pior

07-29-2010, 10:05 AM

Unfortunately there's not much one can do about those kind of retarded flaws. The folder sorting is driving me insane too (the "F" of Folder gets them sorted after "E" files and before "G" files, or something like that ; typing the first letter of a file to jump to it only works one time out of ten, and so on. But at least its better than back in the days when doing so used to RENAME the file currently selected hehe)

In my experience there is sometimes workarounds for those things but they require downloading a special app (filecutter for cut and paste ...) and it's quickly becoming painful. Then you have Mac lovers telling you you're stupid, you don't need such and such feature, Steve Jobs designed it this way to save the world from hunger, and so on (instead of just saying that no, there's no solution to the given problem)

The only way to ease the frustration is to treat the OS like a slightly retarded puppy that you jut have to pat the right way. No reason to get worked up on something stupid that you have no control on anyways hehe.

Good luck!!

haiddasalami

07-29-2010, 11:21 AM

The one thing that always annoys me is at times Ill just use the enter key to launch something but enter on mac is renaming the file >.<

arrangemonk

07-29-2010, 11:30 AM

@ sef build fear: most online stores offer building the pc complete for a small fee

STRIKER

07-29-2010, 11:57 AM

Makes a thread asking which he should settle with.
Users people post valid opinions, personal experiences, and facts about PC
One user posts a personal experience with Mac.
Original poster settles with Mac based on Mac user's personal experience.

uhh

hahahahha. i pretty much wanted to know how it worked on a mac. also i wanted to discuss what has been said about macs and whats been said with pcs. Plus theirs not a lot of mac users here in this thread, im simply saying "WOw thanks for testing the 3d capability and the gaming capability for the mac and telling that it handles it with ease too" that's all. hahaha u had me dying

CGvanHoudt

07-29-2010, 02:10 PM

I have a mac because; when I open the box, turn it on and install Maya I can start working immediately. I tried to work with Windows 7 for about a year now but I switched back to Mac OS X. Also, I like the fact that my MacBook Pro looks good, I find that I work much more efficient if I have nice, clean looking products around me.

I also don't care that it's more expensive, I'm willing to pay for a better looking product.

DEElekgolo

07-29-2010, 02:34 PM

STRIKER

07-29-2010, 05:28 PM

See this (http://deelekgolo.codebrainshideout.net/myface/).

all i see is angry kids :)

ZacD

07-29-2010, 05:31 PM

I'll stick with PC's and my game engines.

I used Maya + OSX for too long in school.

Plus XSI doesn't run on OSX :P

STRIKER

07-29-2010, 05:38 PM

I'll stick with PC's and my game engines.

I used Maya + OSX for too long in school.

Plus XSI doesn't run on OSX :P

your reason for to stick with pc and game engines? explain

nightFlarer

07-29-2010, 05:47 PM

I like the fact that my MacBook Pro looks good, I find that I work much more efficient if I have nice, clean looking products around me.

I also don't care that it's more expensive, I'm willing to pay for a better looking product.

..............uuuhhhh, right... Personally I'd rather pay for performance than looks.

I'm more on the neutral side, I've been around computers for most of my life (like most of us here), and I have owned both PCs and Macs. Our family computers have never had any problems, only upgraded some stuff like RAM and HD, I remember I when I started my Dad's old computer which had Windows 3.1, around 2007 and it still works perfectly as with our other PC's.

I've owned an old iBook (one of those coloured clam-shell ones) when I was in primary school and it took me awhile to get use to it since it was different from windows. Once I got used to it, it worked like it was supposed to and I've never had any trouble also.

I believe the Mac OS are designed to be user friendly to people who do not know much about computers, should start as soon as you turn it on and harder to stuff shit up accidentally, kinda like baby's first computer (don't take that last one seriously :poly124:).

If you're having trouble with PC's (and Macs), it's most likely the user's fault, as I've said I haven't had ANY major problems.

If you wanna decrease your problems:

Don't download porn
Don't download pirated shit
Don't open dodgy e-mails
Don't download music from P2P (for example limewire)

I guess you could do those things if you know what you're doing without any problems, you just gotta be able to tell what's a virus and what's legit (a 3 minute mp3 shouldn't be 153kb in size).

STRIKER

07-29-2010, 06:36 PM

nightFlarer (http://www.polycount.com/forum/member.php?u=35239)- nice reply, what im looking for. i know all the old mac are poop for 3d and stuff. but the new imac is apparently good for that stuff too :)

gannonroader

07-29-2010, 06:57 PM

I can save you a bit of time right now. If you use 3D studio max, it will not run properly on a mac, even with boot camp.

Bibendum

07-29-2010, 07:00 PM

your reason for to stick with pc and game engines? explainThe only reason to buy a mac is so that you can run OSX. The hardware in a Mac is exactly the same as what goes into PCs, the only difference is the OS.

Now here's the problem... OSX is specifically designed for users with simple needs. Meaning browsing the internet, watching videos, listening to music, etc. It does those things quite well, however once you start to branch out from that into areas like say... game dev... you can't really do much (unless you're working on the iphone) because the vast majority of the engines you're using (UDK for example) are going to be Windows only. At that point you have to use Windows and if you're running Windows off your mac you're beginning to defeat the entire purpose of buying it in the first place.

However looking at your work it looks like all you care about is high poly character sculpts, if that's your only interest and you're not a max/xsi user, you'll probably be okay.

bugo

07-29-2010, 09:33 PM

Mac = expensive for not so many reasons = cool design = does the same as PC = less compatibility = it does give you problems too = if you want to sell it later is a good investment.

PC = lots of compatibility = cheap = it can have a good design if you want = nothing that a Mac cant do = it does give problems as any = if you want to sell it later, it sucks.

Snader

07-29-2010, 11:16 PM

How about this:
Baseline MacBook Pro 15inch - $1799
2.4GHz Intel Core i5
4GB 1066MHz DDR3
320GB SATA HD
NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M with 256MB

Similarly specced Dell Inspiron 14r - $849.99
Intel® Core™ i5-450M 2.4Gh
4GB2 Shared Dual Channel DDR3
500GB3 5400rpm
ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD5470, 64-Bit, DDR3 1GB1

So you buy a Dell now, and in 1 or 2 years you buy a vastly improved one from the other $950. Or you keep it pocketed in case it breaks. Any laptop (apples too) can break. Or you spend it on booze and hookers. I dunno. FREE MONEY.

STRIKER

07-29-2010, 11:21 PM

gannonroader (http://www.polycount.com/forum/member.php?u=29079)- whaa?? all lies, lol so i heard. i can show you peoples replies on how it runs really good on mac. which is good news

Bibendum (http://www.polycount.com/forum/member.php?u=34995)- i know what u mean. and the stuff i posted here are just studies and quickies. not what i care only about :)

bugo (http://www.polycount.com/forum/member.php?u=16196)- dont care about designs, but i see what u mean

STRIKER

07-29-2010, 11:37 PM

ZacD

07-30-2010, 12:12 AM

your reason for to stick with pc and game engines? explain

a bunch of the software I use often (UDK, Marmoset, XSI, etc, etc) don't have an OSX port.

OSX ports of software/games often have worse performance and more issues (starcraft 2, zBrush , maya, etc etc) because most programs are designed for windows and/or there's a larger user base for windows so it gets more attention and support. Adobe products run well and macs work great for sound/video.

I don't support Apples polices with their computers/iphone/app store etc etc

Their products are overpriced

CompanionCube

07-30-2010, 12:22 AM

my problem with with macs is the 1.limited choice of specs and 2. they come with very average graphics cards. the newest 27" imac only now just come with a 1GB graphics card , the ATI Radeon HD 5750, which is ok but not if your doing high end 3D. so its kinda silly spending all that money on a mac just to have to buy a new graphics card. early this year my friend bought a 27" imac and basically its just a pretty average computer with a very very nice screen, the usb ports being right at the back is very annoying too because you have to to turn the imac round to even see what your doing, and from the front it hard to tell were the disc drive and the memory card reader are and on the first day he managed to stick a memory card in the disc drive, lucky for him he was able to get it out. to me Mac/apple has become very dull.....all their products look the same. every mac user i have met is either someone who knows little to nothing about computers or are a "graphic designer" who couldn't possibly create anything with out a mac. only decent thing on mac these days is Final Cut and to be honest there are alot of other better more robust editing and grading packages out there for windows and linux.

Beware the Invasion of the IPeople

STRIKER

07-30-2010, 12:50 AM

Neox

07-30-2010, 12:55 AM

ok i think i know what to do, i simply test the NEW imac and see for myself, right? no better way to find out. and if i dont like that shit, im sending that shit back. ill put my sources to the test :P

i'm working on the new imac 27" - dunno if there is a newer one. you better get a good aircondition, when its hot these things crash like hell, freeze all the time and are very annoying, also they scratched 10cds already - the ati card and drivers built in are a mess, you need to remove them and exchange them with the mobility drivers to get rid of baaaaad color banding - on windows 7 that is, can't use most of my software in OSX - so maybe its just windows - but i doubt that the overheating and cdscratching is software problem

STRIKER

07-30-2010, 01:02 AM

i'm working on the new imac 27" - dunno if there is a newer one. you better get a good aircondition, when its hot these things crash like hell, freeze all the time and are very annoying, also they scratched 10cds already - the ati card and drivers built in are a mess, you need to remove them and exchange them with the mobility drivers to get rid of baaaaad color banding - on windows 7 that is, can't use most of my software in OSX - so maybe its just windows - but i doubt that the overheating and cdscratching is software problem

dam send me a link to the model you got would ya

MightyPea

07-30-2010, 05:16 AM

Neox: I remember there being a problem with motherboard/fan drivers under bootcamp, so the overheating could actually be a software problem.

But yes, another non-biased opinion here: they're both very comparable in quality. Claims of mac being crash-proof are sadly highly exaggerated, as are claims of pc's crashing. I haven't had the OS crash in a long, long time. I really am quite fond of Win7, especially with some tweaking and little programs to enhance the experience (7 taskbar tweaker, for instance, which cycles through different windows of a program when you click multiple times on the icon, and goes to the last used window if you click it once. This should be default behaviour, I think!)

The only thing I find myself getting very tired of (with windows and mac alike, just pc hardware in general) is how hard it is to maintain the initial speed of a computer. Part of this is software, part of it is hardware.

Rick Stirling

07-30-2010, 05:18 AM

every mac user i have met is either someone who knows little to nothing about computers or are a "graphic designer" who couldn't possibly create anything with out a mac.

I used to work in IT support for 3 years and I've built a half dozen PCs. Moving to a Mac was the best tech choice I've made in years.

I also make games.

CompanionCube

07-30-2010, 05:41 AM

Rick Stirling what do they use at R*North, Mac or PC?

thomasp

07-30-2010, 06:11 AM

while were talking about mac os could a Mac head tell me how to maximize my windows

there's no real maximize-button. the green orb does it kinda... almost... jobs-style. ;) the idea is that clicking on that one will scale the window to fit it's contents - if said contents require as much or more screen real estate than your display has it will effectively do a maximize.
it's a weird one and there are some apps (often ports) which behave differently tho.

it's one of those things that pior mentioned - if you ask real macheads about it, they will just give you attitude and refer to holy jobs and that HE knows best.

and how I can merge folders without deleting the contents of 1 in the process.

you mean copying files instead of moving them? holt down the ALT key while dragging.

Neox

07-30-2010, 06:37 AM

dam send me a link to the model you got would ya

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC511LL/A?mco=MTg1ODA4MDM

ah btw if you wanna use udk forget it, doesn't run in the latest build - december build runs though, so i guess its a shader model 3 thing - it just crashes now, without an error message

r_fletch_r

07-30-2010, 07:13 AM

thanks thomasp, What i mean by merge is copy a folder into a folder containing a folder with the same name. in windows any contents that has the same file names is overwritten and all new files are copied. on my mac i do the same thing and the contents of the first folder is indiscriminately deleted before copying the new folder in.

We had major issues with Macs + ATI cards when writing realtime 3d simultors, they seem to be really prone to Zsorting errors. They also seem very prone to screen tearing.

STRIKER

07-30-2010, 12:44 PM

thanks guys for the replies :) thats exactly what im curious about, the bootcamp and stuff. thanks for the heads up, this is what i wanted this thread to be like.

Justin Meisse

07-30-2010, 01:28 PM

every mac user i have met is either someone who knows little to nothing about computers or are a "graphic designer" who couldn't possibly create anything with out a mac.

haha, yeah, I was a PC IT guy for a while, I found that most people in the IT crowd have the immediate knee jerk reaction to Macs "it's a Mac, I don't know anything about them so I can't fix it.... also they suck". That's how I got the job at the Mac office, they knew I was a PC guy but I wasn't afraid to learn something new.

I also knew a retired IBM engineer who was a huge Mac proponent, he regularly made me feel like an idiot with his know-how.

CompanionCube

07-30-2010, 04:31 PM

i don't really have that much of a problem with mac except with what i listed above. i just think they are a bit over hyped by good advertising and there are people that tell me about how awesome they are but never know why and can't show me why either. its personal preference or down to what software you need to use but i wouldn't buy a mac to run windows on it. i like to build my own machines and i have built a fair few for others, i like to have the choice of exactly what i want not a preset list of a few choices that aren't even that impressive. Can you even get an imac or a mac pro with a quadro or fireGL/firePro off the shelf?..........no. why would i pay all that money for a mac pro just to have to replace the graphics card?

recently i've been getting into linux specifically ubuntu and fedora and if your sick of windows then a linux based OS is a far better choice than OSX. at the moment i'm just playing around with linux and have been trying out trials of maya and softimage on fedora and also got a beta of Mari and its very nice. there has to be a reason high end VFX studios like weta run their workstations and renderfarms with Fedora and other linux based OS and not on Macs.

i always ask mac users this question after they have a big rant at me of why macs are so awesome and better than anything else, "if they are so good, why doesn't everyone have them?"

STRIKER

07-30-2010, 06:37 PM

"if they are so good, why doesn't everyone have them?"

hmm, thats probably why i started this thread because im no pro pc or mac but heard that mac last longer.....o and the question i feel it would be the money issue

pior

07-30-2010, 07:19 PM

Also, if you are not familiar with OSX yet, you will soon realise that the whole 'Macs are more simple than PCs' is just marketing talk. As a matter of fact, being a daily user of both systems, I dont think anything on the mac is more simple at all, OS-wise.

The only thing is that the control panel (or whatever its called) is much better organized - pretty much like the one that was on Windows until the late XP days. I think Macs only seem simple now, just because Seven and Vista are an absolute mess when it comes to the organisation of the control panels menus and overall navigation when you need to change some 'under the hood' preferences. (changing resolution or desktop bakground used to be the most simple things to do on Win, now they added useless steps to reach the same options - completely retarded design) But besides that and the annoyances found on both sides, the two system feel perfectly identical in terms of functionality and user operation. Macbooks have cool gestures, but win machines have the Win key. Draw game!

Also, if you are a mouse power-user on the PC, be prepared to be disappointed. Mouse movement is very unnatural on the Mac if you are used to a straightforward PC-like motion of the cursor. If you only had Macs all your life its fine, but when transitioning its extremely painful. I personally gave up and only use the touchpad or a tablet.

Anyways - dont base your purchase on the simplicity argument. If you are smart enough to install 7zip by yourself on a Windows machine not coming with it pre-installed, then there will be no difference between the OSes for you. Only base your choice on the software available for you to work with. In my experience CS4 runs better on the Mac (not in terms of raw power for big file handling, but more for brushstroke interpolation, whereas on Win theres always that problem of lines being jaggy if drawn at a low zoom factor). But Macs cannot run 3DSMax and UDK. That sort of things.

Just thought I'd clear this up!

STRIKER

07-30-2010, 07:56 PM

pior- some really good points man, but im really really confused on that you cant run 3ds max or udk. to my knowledge, you can get bootcamp for the mac and basically you get a windows CD and install it on the mac, it will allow you to use any windows software.

i dont know if im missing anything that would stop this?

thomasp

07-30-2010, 08:15 PM

Also, if you are not familiar with OSX yet, you will soon realise that the whole 'Macs are more simple than PCs' is just marketing talk. As a matter of fact, being a daily user of both systems, I dont think anything on the mac is more simple at all, OS-wise.

well... program (un-)installation seems a lot easier to me for one.
i don't even dare to install anything on windows these days thanks to the *"§$%&! registry clutter, totally non-user-serviceable and just keeps building up over time.
what a joke when you have to maintain a throwaway-partition for junk-apps and games or run things in a sandbox to check if a program is worthwhile using on your work partition.
i find windows the hardest to maintain by far.

on the mac, i don't even think twice about trying out some utility since throwing the app-folder and perhaps some stuff from library->application support into the trash rids my system of any traces i could possibly care about.

linux, well ... nice when it's a fresh system. IMO not so nice a while down the road when a flood of updates is required to sort-of maintain compatibility. conflicting libraries are also a wonderful treat - but at least solveable problems with a little bit of command-line-knowledge.
also it's probably just me but when you look close on linux, there's quite some half-baked stuff like only partially working drivers, support for this and that lacking, etc. ultimately it offers a lot more control than any of the other OS'es tho - if you know what you're doing.

STRIKER: bootcamp is not a 100% windows solution, there are incompatibilities. if you intend to get a mac, don't rely on emulation for your main OS and applications.

edit: the reason big studios rely on linux and not on mac is probably partially a historical one: they were all unix-based before the rise of linux so you can assume that the tech staff there have strong preferences - and also a matter of control: jobsy keeps switching hardware and OS every few years, seemingly apple doesn't give a damn about backwards-compatibility. just look through mac related forums and you'll read about plenty of incompatibilities between versions of OSX, never mind older stuff.

STRIKER

07-30-2010, 11:49 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0WXLPz08NM

check it out guys, o and its 3 years old (computer)

ZacD

07-31-2010, 12:48 AM

Its probably just parallels, old stuff.

EDIT: yeah it says it was parrallels, and
The viewport speed it's not so great but acceptable at 32fps vs. 112fps on native windowsalso the render speed was a bit slower.

Racer445

07-31-2010, 01:10 AM

virtualization works alright... until of course you have a job that requires you to make 6 million triangle models using the software you are trying to run virtualized. :)

pior

07-31-2010, 02:15 AM

Oh I meant natively of course. What I mean is : if you go to the apple store, get a Mac, and bring it back home, then no you wont be able to run UDK or Max. But then yeah you sure can install bootcamp or parallels and get them to run, but why would you want to take the risk of lower compatibility in the first place ? Granted I have no experience with bootcamp, but it just seems logical that if you want to use as Win specific as UDK or max, then you simply grab a solid PC build and not a mac. Just common sense ?

Marine

07-31-2010, 03:43 AM

changing resolution or desktop bakground used to be the most simple things to do on Win, now they added useless steps to reach the same options - completely retarded design

they're still simple, display in control panel for changing resolution and personalise for themes, background, sounds. even simpler, right click desktop for both, or just right click a picture and choose set as background

r_fletch_r

07-31-2010, 04:56 AM

UDK runs fine on my MBP. Keep in mind all bootcamp is, is a driver package, and its all drivers from the OEMs. As has been said the new systems are just PC's running MacOS

pior

07-31-2010, 12:35 PM

Hehe yeah Marine I can still find my way there successfully, thanks :P I am just noticing that things keep being dumbed down but also making less sense at the same time. Its true for both OSes too - assigning a simple color as background requires creating a special image just for it in OSX. Design by committee always leads to the most stupid decisions ...

Anyways - just saying that OS quirks shouldn't be something to base a purchase on. The days when mainstream OSes were getting better and better are over, now its all downhill (Win Seven explorer quirks are just as bad as the Finders, draw game again)- we need to let it go and just focus on the power apps we use!

Just my opinion!

r_fletch_r

07-31-2010, 01:25 PM

I found 7 quite nice, while its not great its a positive step. which is not something that could have been said of vista.

haiddasalami

07-31-2010, 04:41 PM

Don't know why people hate on Vista. Worked perfectly for me after SP1 :O

r_fletch_r

08-01-2010, 02:54 AM

on release it was a disaster. that taste stuck in a lot of mouths. You should try 7 the aero UI is actually becoming usefull. the taskbar stacks are great.

haiddasalami

08-01-2010, 03:03 AM

on release it was a disaster. that taste stuck in a lot of mouths. You should try 7 the aero UI is actually becoming usefull. the taskbar stacks are great.

yeah was in the RC build and used that as my primary OS and recently upgraded. Runs butter smooth with an SSD :)

Justin Meisse

08-01-2010, 08:57 AM

My windows 7 experience has been fine.... after I was able to troubleshoot how to get it to install without hanging. I had to run the install in low rez mode and then force explorer to start after it fails to finish the install procedure.

Copying stuff from my old Vista drive was a nightmare too, the permissions got all screwed up so I had to jump through alot of hoops just so I could access any files on my old drive. Unfortunately the stuff I did to fix the permissions on my old drive somehow screwed up the permissions on my Windows 7 install directory, the fastest solution was to just format and reinstall windows 7 again.

Bibendum

08-01-2010, 03:09 PM

Curious as to what problems you guys are having with Windows 7 that makes you say it's good but not great?

I've been running it on two PC's for what must be over a year now and the only problem I've had is that I need to disable windows tablet service because it's shitty and annoying.

Have to admit I've never had the problems you did Justin, went from Vista 32 to Win 7 64 without any issue. One of my installs did fail but that was because of a corrupt ISO. (edit: ISO from the microsoft store, not pirated -_-) Redownloading fixed it.

Justin Meisse

08-02-2010, 06:05 AM

Bibendum: it's a fairly common problem, googling "Windows 7 Freezes at "Completing Installation"" brings up thousands of posts with a thousand different solutions. This issue has existed since the Beta, I was installing an OEM copy of Win7. Having most likely built in excess of 1,000 PC's in my lifetime I'm ready for weird shit like this.

Visceral

08-02-2010, 06:56 AM

Macs are just much moore expencive non customizable PC with less compability.

But sure if you like stainless steel, then go for it ritch boys.

r_fletch_r

08-02-2010, 09:36 AM

Visceral:
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:bn3-82n44QgZfM:http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j258/whenthesongbirdsings/pinktroll.jpg&t=1

I dont have any major issues with 7. i just dont think either OSX or 7 are all that great. both still have things which could improve. 7 has however added the things i missed from OSX.

Prophecies

08-02-2010, 10:42 AM

Macs are just much moore expencive non customizable PC with less compability.

But sure if you like stainless steel, then go for it ritch boys.
Well this is a rather ridiculous statement that hasn't been thought through and is completely biased.

Macs are great. Far more user friendly for those who aren't super familiar with computers (not that it is an issue for me). But the advantage with macs, is that they tend to last a long, long time. Far longer than I've had any PC. They are less prone to breakdown IMO. And for those saying that you can't run your favorite programs on OSX (UDK for example), Boot camp is there for a reason :)

I used to be a mac owner. Loved it. Now I have my personal reasons for going with a PC. Regardless, macs are definitely very, very nice.

DEElekgolo

08-02-2010, 11:23 AM

Well this is a rather ridiculous statement that hasn't been thought through and is completely biased.

Macs are great. Far more user friendly for those who aren't super familiar with computers (not that it is an issue for me). But the advantage with macs, is that they tend to last a long, long time. Far longer than I've had any PC. They are less prone to breakdown IMO. And for those saying that you can't run your favorite programs on OSX (UDK for example), Boot camp is there for a reason :)

I used to be a mac owner. Loved it. Now I have my personal reasons for going with a PC. Regardless, macs are definitely very, very nice.

I don't get how people say it lasts longer simply because it is a mac.
If you can get a mac and bootcamp it. Then why not get a PC and install mac OSX on it? That way you can get better hardware than what apple provides.
Apple hardware has nothing exclusive compared to its PC counterpart. Actually the Mac hardware setup is very inefficient when it comes to heat. My sister's mac heats up to around 78° C, and since the case is made of metal, it heats up the entire case to around 62° C. Apple seams to enjoy doing a "good" design over efficiency to please all of the hipster elitist, but when it comes to something extremely practical and has a great demand for processing power, that is where things get messy.

mortalhuman

08-02-2010, 11:24 AM

What dude? First, no direct OFFENSE intended, but Yea right. Mac comes with everything you would want to do with basic facebook/myspace-user/music thief crap.

Read: APPLE provides ONLY basic crap that any user on the planet would want, and they do not go out of their way to get Power Users onto their systems: BECAUSE POWER USERS KNOW THEY ARE EVIL. Read on.

Try to replace any of those applications with something else and you find slim-pickins.

I don't care that I need to add software to do good video editing in windows. It's the OS, it's not supposed to supply me everything and "just work". "Just working" just makes mac "very limited" and "FOR STUPID PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE GETTING THEMSELVES INTO IN THE LONG RUN"

Sorry man, you might like macs, might enjoy it, but the whole mac camp is silly and really dumb to ever think it stands next to capabilities of a Windows box - GLOBALLY - ALL AROUND - windows is more usable, off of the sheer choice you have.

Mac need quite some time to improve who publishes on them before any can argue differently, sorry man, it's not even a pc vs mac thing for this post. It's a power user vs noob who expects OS to do everything (and really just get locked into the lack of choice).

Too harsh? Nah. Mac people are smug for no reasons. Literally no reason to be so proud of such a vacant and choiceless suite without anyone publishing on it (yet).

MAC IS EVIL.

Supercomputer -> PC (computer enters HOME) -> Mac -> MP3 Player -> iPod -> iPhone -> iPad -> next will be iView then iServe, then complete cloud and remote data NONSENSE.

Wait till you see what Crytek and EA are going to do to your renders. You will change your tune when you see perspective based rendering and server side rendering crap JUST so they can STOP giving you RIGHTS when you buy something and instead charge you monthly access instead.

MAC IS EVIL. SO IS WIN CLOUD. MAC IS THE ONE MAKING IT "COOL" to be stupid/locked/remotecloud based. It is not cool, and we will regret it.

We will regret not knowing the difference between EULA and Cloud. We will regret not knowing the difference between RIGHTS TO GAMES and SERVICE PROVIDERS.

They can track anyone online. Track down child predators in an instant. Scan amm email for certain phrases. But you can't stop silly lil old PIRACY? LIES. THEY can stop it they ALLOW it so they can go into a court room of the highest order and say: "THE PEOPLE CANNOT BE TRUSTED".

Yes, I AM insinuating conspiracy and YES if you do not agree, you do not know enough to do so. I am a sympathizer. That doesn't mean I am part of the rebellion. You better stop us, or else, well, can't say I didn't warn the mice that we were coming...

DEElekgolo

08-02-2010, 11:27 AM

I wanted to say what mortalhuman said but I wanted to target the product its self more, and not the bulk of the people that use it.

mortalhuman

08-02-2010, 11:30 AM

True. That's why I had to say "no direct offense intended" etc.

Because it's not even the people being stupid, it is the corporations taking advantage of their ignorance to the difference between SERVICE and OWNERSHIP.

OnLive is Evil.
Mac is Evil.
Cloud is Evil.
RFID is Evil.
Zinga is EVIL.

They are ALL fundamentally connected and working to remove "world wide" from "web" and have "local area" instead of "a world community". To turn "EULA" into "Service, rules may vary or change without notice".

No more knowing how evil China govt is.

I'm telling you guys: Open your eyes. Open your eyes or you're really, really not going to like us, no matter how much you like us now. "They" are, 100% fact, trying, and being very successful at, removing the internet, and putting us back in the 80s where we rely on TV and news and hear say. THEY are connecting us all, for the sole purpose of then disconnecting us.

ONCE they control the connection, that's it.

AND REMEMBER: HOW wrong can I be when we are the SAME PEOPLE who charge you 100+ dollars just to boot your laptop, push f11, and reset it from a partition. THE SAME PEOPLE who rip off for centuries. The SAME PEOPLE who compete with ourselves so that whichever brand you choose, you still choose the one that locks you down.

One love <3

OnLive: AT&T (the same people with the stranglehold on iPhone's) is giving out FREE first year membership to OnLive and you DONT have to get a second year - that sounds too good to be true, right? When was the LAST time you got a free anything without agreeing to pay for the time that comes after that free or discounted rate?!?! Exactly. And AT&T is giving it out. The Name itself is pure marketing too: People already SAY "I'm going to play cod on Live tonight with my friends"

naming it "OnLive" is pretty subliminal, to say the least.

Soz yall, but I won't argue the usability of either as much as I will argue: The more heavily marketed to "stylish people", the more evil that ish is.

r_fletch_r

08-02-2010, 12:18 PM

I dont have a clue about cloud computing, nor do i see the relevance so im not going to go there. but so far as macs not being for power users and lacking publishers you seem pretty uninformed. lets take a look at who publishes on macs in the 3D/Creative industry as a whole
Off the top of my head.

Autodesk- Maya, Mudbox, Smoke, Sketchbook Pro, (Max is offically supported under Virtualisation)
Adobe: Photoshop, Illustrator, AfterEffects, Flash
The Foundry: Nuke
Apple:Shake,Final Cut
NextLimit: Realflow
Luxology: Modo
Pixologic: Zbrush

Smaller Companys
NeverCenter: Silo
Pilgway : 3DCoat
Topogun (dont know name of publisher)

What job cant you do?
I dont disagree that they are expensive for much the same thing as a PC but they are by no means crippled or useless.

Justin Meisse

08-02-2010, 12:55 PM

eld

08-02-2010, 01:08 PM

Well art tools will obviously be ported to the mac platform, that's a given.

But still, if we're talking about software selection on a global scale, it does have a smaller selection, most so in games.

We can also discuss the validity in that mac hardware would be less bound to failiure, considering the hardware is the same kind we use with pc's.

They do have pretty chassi though.

Justin Meisse

08-02-2010, 01:35 PM

If you remove games from the equation there really is no difference in software selection, the only time I saw issues was with very specific proprietary software, the newspaper insert sorting machine (it stuffs coupon pamphlets into the newspapers) ran on proprietary software that only worked in Windows NT.

All the times I've done work on Dells, HPs and the like I've always shaken my head at the shoddy manufacturing decisions they made. Most of the Macs I've worked on impressed me with the build quality, of coarse there's a few hiccups now and then, like the noisy G4 and the MacBook model that got way too hot.

I've been out of the repair biz for a while now but have PC laptop manufacturers solved the power plug stress break problem that's plagued them for years?

eld

08-02-2010, 01:50 PM

Exactly, mac's are targeted to people in the design and music business, not people who play games.

Now laptops are an interesting thing in all this, since just about all laptops will be pre-assembled, with little to no interchangable parts, so everyone is essentially doing the same thing as mac, building computer setups.

mac seems to be solid in this area, but it sure has a super-premium price, which means you'll be spending the money that you could've also spent on that inevitable future ugrade.

But once again, mac's are targeted to the crowd that can afford to pay the premium, in the situations when money is not a problem.

mortalhuman

08-02-2010, 07:03 PM

Holy cow, mortalhuman, you come across like a crazy guy on the subway.

The "Mac's don't have the software selection" is even more silly than the "one button mouse!" argument. It's kind of like the Mac user argument that Windows can't handle as many colors or sound channels at once.

Touche. I'm the ODB, as you can see. lol.

Mac OS is taking over - and they are not just taking over, but in a big way, and a supposedly new, but ultimately more limiting way. I consider the iPod to be comparable, or literal to, the invasion of the pod people. Yea, you know, closed people out into their zone. It then became iPhone and added the "new" communication. Now here we have the iPad. It is just the new pollution.

How long will it be, before you no longer own your games, movies, music, or other media able to be digitized that comes out and deemed "new"?

Sure you will have San Andreas, and PS2, if you kept it, and if it didn't die (amirite? Both counts: GTA Discs <3 and PS2s).

But will you have new games and movies? Will you even be able to replace your VHS's and DVD's? Doubtful. OnLive streams the games, Netflix streams the movies. You pay to access, or you don't watch movies. Comcast, Verizon, Satelite, or Xbox/PS3?

Why is there only "one or the other"? Coke, Pepsi? Sprite, 7up. Democrat, Republican. Blood, Crypt or whatever it is, Console A or B, now adays Xbox and PS, or should I say Sega Dreamcast II and Super Super Super Nintendo? It is not that there are no other consoles, sodas, candidates etc - it's just that the money behind and people behind the ones we know about - and do not fear - that the everyone under the duality's are just mere blips, while only the "beasts" two "main contenders" always take the spotlight - back and forth, playing on the instincts of us, the subjects, who pick either side of any of the things listed and more for various reasons, often completely in vanity. Some people don't drink cola. Only 7 up. Some people don't play games, only watch the polls for their political party. Some people do it all. Just to be sure I don't look like I'm generalizing - that's a sidewalk bum thing to do, I consider myself to be closer and more akin to the Truth. With 23 or more examples.

Apple/PC.

There is an ever expanding selection of software for Mac. I really can't deny that. There is an expanding audience for the platform, and an expanding grip around the minds of the people. I'm not talking about brainwashing so much as it may seem. If it seems that way, you already notice validity when you see it above because my focus here is not to talk about manipulation but about possession of the people. I do get too excited when I discuss it, but I am just a mortal human, and for me, this is like a magic trick to show people.

Do you guys know why 1984 wasn't like 1984? Because that was the beginning.

Mac target is changing, btw. Can't really dispute that, Steam, developers scrambling to port. It is because iView is coming. And iServe.

And such.

Bibendum

08-02-2010, 08:03 PM

I'm no doctor but you've got all the symptoms of a serious case of trolliosis.

Kwramm

08-02-2010, 08:43 PM

Talking about "crowds that can pay the premium" - such products also exist for the PC camp

Then again, at least outside the US, the Mac premium isn't much of a premium at all. Comparable workstations / mobile workstations (if you chose to compare the Pro lines) come to pretty much the same price points when you chose similar specs and similar CPUs.

In the last years the apple premium has dropped considerably - Now when we go back to the late 90's and early 2000's, yeah it was insane at that time!

TerraBite

08-02-2010, 10:38 PM

OnLive is Evil.
Mac is Evil.
Cloud is Evil.
RFID is Evil.
Zinga is EVIL.

You forgot Microsoft is evil. But honestly from my experience with both computers, Mac is not that evil at all. In fact it's only been an angel for me.

ZacD

08-02-2010, 11:15 PM

Their policies can be a bit iffy. Customization and options are always strictly limited. They try to filter out what apps and games they accept and they've stopped programs that would allow "crappy" games to flood their market.

Apple is cruel/harsh to anyone that leaks any info. Harsh on developers, a jerk to Adobe, who creates a bunch of their key software.

Sneaking Safari onto peoples computers through standard itune updates. etc etc.

CompanionCube

08-02-2010, 11:16 PM

good luck with whatever striker decides, there is very little difference these days so just pick which one suits you best.

its pretty dissapointing for mac users that there are only plans at the moment to bring the new Quadro 4000 to mac but none of the higher models (5000,6000,Plex 7000) at the moment. So for High End stuff i still think PC with windows/linux will always be better.

eld

08-03-2010, 01:03 AM

Autocon

08-03-2010, 03:11 AM

I dont see PC's needing to have OSX installed on them like Mac's option to have Windows.

Game. Set. Match.

TerraBite

08-03-2010, 11:06 AM

I dont see PC's needing to have OSX installed on them like Mac's option to have Windows.

Game. Set. Match.

Best of both worlds? Why not! Both are useful to me so I think Mac is the better choice. There are no limitations to what I need to use my Mac for PLUS I get to use all my Windows programs. And I adore the lifespan all my Macs have lived, I've never seen one die or fail. My father's been studying Apple for years, and he's going to be certified to install Mac computers into businesses, I've learned a lot from him. :)

DEElekgolo

08-03-2010, 11:35 AM

Why wouldn't you get mac OSX installed on a PC.
You would have better hardware and performance...

God damn hipsters just want to have a "pretty looking" computer to show off to people...

r_fletch_r

08-03-2010, 11:59 AM

Because it requires the software to be cracked and mac OS only supports a narrow cross section of pc hardware.

DEElekgolo

08-03-2010, 02:00 PM

You sure? Anything with an Intel CPU should work fine...
My sister did it to her computer. Before she actually bought a mac.

r_fletch_r

08-03-2010, 02:08 PM

Im sure it works fine on some systems but why would Apple ship their OS with drivers for hardware they dont support.

ZacD

08-03-2010, 02:09 PM

Yeah there's lots of driver issues, and a limited support of hardware.

trancerobot

08-03-2010, 02:36 PM

Well this is a silly thread.

All of us are adults right? If you'd like a Mac, get one. If you'd like a PC, get one. Finally, respect the choices of others. They are both good, depending on what you want out of it.

There's no point in having pride in your purchasing choices.

Besides, not many people really care all that much. At the end of the day, our only real concerns should be about getting work done.

TerraBite

08-03-2010, 04:09 PM

Kwramm

08-03-2010, 07:25 PM

There's already been examples in the thread where a much cheaper computer can be had at the same performance.

Yes. But you know, there's people who have broader more criteria than just raw performance when chosing a PC? built quality, support, features, looks - for laptops: size, display, weight, battery.

Take a Macbook Pro for example - find a similar PC that has all the features (display resolution, battery, weight, size, video card) and see how much cheaper it is, ensuring ALL categories are pretty much the same, not just performance! Make sure to compare it with other brand names (dell, alienware, asus, hp, etc) which play in the same league of pre-built machines.
You'll probably notice that the prices are not too different any more.

Just don't compare it with self built. That's like complaining that restaurants charge you more than what it costs when you cook yourself at home.