Building an environment - Evil Genius hidden forest base

[adam]

I've been dropping these concepts in the WAYWO thread long enough that I might as well get my own thread going.

I've wanted to do something like this for awhile now, but never wanted to pull the trigger on the idea because I didn't want to get myself in to something I'd just stress over at home. Since this is a personal project, the least amount of stress there is the better.

The goal is to end up with a fun environment piece that was planned, discussed and executed on openly from the very beginning. Hopefully by doing this I or others will have learned something along the way.

Let's begin!
-----



An evil genius' hidden forest base

Summary

An evil mastermind's base, hidden deep within a North American forest.
Inspiration, purpose


Interest in learning advanced blending methods
Create environment as a whole, final result shown in a video.

Forced to think of the environment as a whole, rather than a couple choice framed shots


UDK
Show how a strong atmosphere ties an environment together
Fun environment idea
Breaking down the planning of the scene, to be posted on Polycount
Release UDK + Package files
Bram's forest environment LINK (http://www.brameulaers.com/forest.html)
James Bond
Austin Powers
Hank Scorpio

Techniques, Plans, Goals


Using UDK
Utilize lightmass
advance texture blending techniques

Useful links


Video tutorials for UDK, posted on their forums. Polycount link (http://boards.polycount.net/showpost.php?p=1028644&postcount=79).
Painting directly on to meshes. UDN link (http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/MeshPaintReference.html).
Advanced vertex painting within Unreal. Link (http://www.chrisalbeluhn.com/UDK_Advanced_Vertex_Painting.html).
Advanced texture blending (modulated blends). Polycount link (http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=66952&page=2).
More texture related information. Hourence's link (http://www.hourences.com/book/tutorialsue3mated3.htm).

Assets (2D)


Vegetation


Ground textures, horizontal

grass
rock face
dirt


Ground textures, vertical

grass
rock face
dirt


moved terrain/dirt
water


Assets (3D)


Landscape (ref collected)


rock set
tree set
fallen tree set
bush
grass
weeds
leaves
flowers


Perimeter defence


fence set (ref collected)

concept


cameras (ref collected)
hidden turret (disguised owl)
warhead
warhead silo
trip wire
wire for electronics
wire grounding unit
communication box (telephone/walkie-talkie). (ref collected)

perhaps view screen/keyboard


Signage

Warning / caution signs
Company signage


'Look-out' nest
Speakers (TF2 style)


Base/headquarters


entrances

vehicle & persons, side-by-side
concept


Communication arrays
Possible power source

Waterfall
Hidden solar panels



Critters


Birds
butterflies
squirrels?


Background elements


Mountains?
Thick forest line


================================================== ======



Important Scenes/Visuals

For the 'beauty' video most (if not all) of these shots will be still shots with not much camera movement. Perhaps some slight panning or rotating, but the point is to show the environment as being a live, without distraction of more organic camera movement.

The 'commentary' video can include more organic camera movement.


Landscape shots

3 or 4 "filler" shots of the landscape and environment

Leaves blowing/swaying
Birds flying


Any story aspects (read: security or hidden base) should not be the focus of these shots. It is ok if they are noticeable in the shots.


Camera connected to tree, over looking area

Possibly a break in the security fence, near a river bed
Scene needs significance. Cannot be JUST a camera in a tree.


Fence perimeter

Running through a group of trees, up a hill
Slight curve/bend in the lay of the fence


Trip wire along a beaten path

If possible, show the wire using strong dof from closest to the screen to furthest

Possibly a trap its linked too?




Strong tree line, cliff side

Birds flying off


Riverside

Running river water
splashes off rocks (small)
Floating branch making its way down the river?


Fallen tree

Crossing a river
A camera can be seen overlooking, but is not the focus point.


The base of a look-out nest

Camouflaged with foliage
Signage visible
Possibly have the camera rotate upwards to show the top of the nest


HQ entrances

low shot, showing the vehicle and persons entrance
side of a cliff
doors visible, not very hidden
some signage


communications relay/antenna positioning

on top of cliff where entrance is
perhaps shown via camera panning from the entrance shot to this shot



REFERENCES - ALL THAT I'VE COLLECTED, SO FAR.

http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/17188/1/refs?h=138b19

CONCEPTS

(NOTE: These concepts may or may not drive the final art style of the environment. This will be determined once I start doing tests in side of UDK, and have some fun with rendering techniques.)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_concept_comps01b.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_concept_comps01b.png

[nfrrtycmplx]

my favourite is the sneaking stick figure. golden!

[willy-wilson]

This is an amazing idea, i will be watching this very closely. I can already see one of my major faults in preplanning, i hardly ever plan anything out and it makes it hard to finish anything and anything i do finish takes 10x to long. This will be a great learning experience for not only you but a lot of others as well. I am very appreciative of this. Thank you.

[makecg]

Geat project I will be watching this one

[eboy]

This sounds great. I'll be sure to follow your progress. I'm busy getting stuck into some decent environment modelling myself. So this should be informative.

Oh and the game Evil Genius was actually a guilty pleasure of mine!

[crazyfingers]

I'll be watching with interest!

[serialkiler]

owl Turret haha that made me rofl nice one :P
nice concept

[Zipfinator]

This looks VERY interesting. Will definitely be following this.

However I think you should aim to release it as a walkable scene instead of just a video. This would force you even more to look at it as an entire environment instead of framed screenshots.

[Sean VanGorder]

As an aspiring environment artist, this should be a gold mine of information. Really looking forward to it.

And that look out tower with super-secret camo is priceless:D!

[ShadowFox]

This should be amazing O.O cant wait to learn from it!

[nrek]

Very cool Adam! It is really awesome that you are putting so much effort into making this a learning exercise not only for you but the community as well. I cant wait to see how this progresses.

[DKK]

Awesome man I'm excited.

[Mladen Jovicic]

this idea reminds me of Evil Genius for the pc. if you haven't played it you should check it out. fun little rts game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_Genius_(video_game) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_Genius_%28video_game%29)

might be some of use for reference perhaps?

[ngs616]

I really like the way you've planned all this out. I've been making a lot of environments lately and they are all just spewed out of my head as i do it, occasionally writing a few notes down. I know thats the wrong way of doing things, but luckily i think this has inspired me to put more time into the planning process of my environments.

Keep it up!

[Nitewalkr]

On my 2 cents:

Sir Adam;

If you are DIY modeling artist, there is indeed no telling how long will it take. However; do not stress over it. Environment may take a day if you are completely bored and modeling is just the key of the moment to kill your boredom, or it may take a month.

these type of threads really inspires me though, and it is a good learning process for others too. I really like that you have planned out the environment on the papers (blue prints). It is what I did to figure out my set. Anyways. Thanks for sharing so far.

I will book mark this thread.

[konstruct]

WHOA nice breakdown man. This type of stuff is super helpful to me. The only thing I would throw at you, -is if you plan to be working on this for a long time, (cause its quite a work load). you should do something with a little more flavor! The owl turret it awesome, but that's a pretty small frequency detail. Although, its a pretty good starting point you could develop into something pretty off the wall. I suppose if your learning, It`s good to start simple.

texture blending is an interesting thing and I plan to keep watch on this

[griffinax]

Rad!
/subscribed

[Sage]

I think we might have to call Adam out too, if he doesn't do this. :D

[throttlekitty]

Great organization and statement there, maybe we'll see more of this style of posting?

[Avanthera]

looking forward to this,
good luck!

[adam]

Right on guys :) If you have any questions feel free to post them up!

The plan right now is to finish these little concepts up (the path, the relay, a close-up of the hidden window) then move on to in-engine tests. (How will I do foliage?? Whats the style of the objects and texturing? Etc)

[glib]

I quite like the style and presentation of your thumbnail/concepts.

[Nitewalkr]

Right on guys :) If you have any questions feel free to post them up!

The plan right now is to finish these little concepts up (the path, the relay, a close-up of the hidden window) then move on to in-engine tests. (How will I do foliage?? Whats the style of the objects and texturing? Etc)

Sweet! Will definately look forward to it. Awsome concept by the way I think I forgot to say that in my previous post.

Good luck.

[seforin]

looking forward to this man :)

[Autocon]

totally looking forward to this and learning what I can from it. always happy that you help out the community on these projects :)

also love the super secrete camo on the trees

[Zpanzer]

Looks awesome! Do you plan to use speedtree for your foliage? Would make it all quicker :)

[LlamaJuice]

Looking awesome sir, that owl is pure win haha.

I'm liking the style that I'm seeing in these concept shots, it's looking rather awesome sir :P

[Target_Renegade]

This should be interesting! I like how you've planned absolutely everything, how and when do you decide on an asset being tiled or having a unique texture? I find it difficult actually going with one or the other.

[vahl]

make
it
playable

u no u want 2

[psychoticprankster]

I think a place like this would have more than one turret.

[adam]

No way man. 1 owl turret is already 1 owl turret too many. sarcasm

I won't be using speedtree for this. I'd rather have control over placement, type, etc. etc. I just trust myself more-so than speedtree.

Thanks everyone - I'm glad you guys are on board. It'll be a fun ride, for sure ;)

[Paulewog]

thanks so much for including the tutorials you found for UDK materials. I too am eager to learn material blending and building techniques. I'll be watching this project closely, can't wait to see progress. Great job on your organization skills.

[Clockwork]

No way man. 1 owl turret is already 1 owl turret too many. sarcasm

I won't be using speedtree for this. I'd rather have control over placement, type, etc. etc. I just trust myself more-so than speedtree.

Thanks everyone - I'm glad you guys are on board. It'll be a fun ride, for sure ;)

Have you used the SpeedTree modeler? You have very good control, when you're modeling a tree, you're basically using generators, but you can build the tree yourself as well, by drawing it out, so you choose the complete form, down to individual branches. There's not much you can't control. You can also make your own custom materials and use for trunk/branch/leave texture maps.

And you can place the model wherever you like.

If you don't like it, don't use it, but I just felt you came with some misinformation here about not having control over placement, and type? You can make any kind of tree you want.

I've been working on some pretty surreal trees lately...

[adam]

Clockwork - Oh wow, it sounds awesome. Last I used it we were just feeding it models and it was placing them rather gingerly. Can I see some example's of tree's you've just?

Please supply some image links! (Please, though, I ask you don't post the image itself using the image button. Thank you!)

[adam]

I've updated the concept ribbon with the following:



Name of the first tree I drew (had to research in to this type of tree. Before I was just drawing it without knowing what it was (!!!).
Birch tree
Conifer tree
Antenna relay

Positioned across the river from the main entrance

A concept laying down the gist of what I want to do with the advanced blending technique

A 'hard' blend from grass to dirt.

Meaning there's very little feather in the transition.
The pattern will hopefully mask a decent grass shape.
Stone/pebble coverage I can control separately from the 2 textures blending together, but within the same model & material. INVESTIGATE. (e.g.: X = dirt, Y = grass, and Z = stones/pebbles?)


Something silly showing the rockets blasting off. I doubt this will make it in the video, but it was fun to draw. The "genius" should quadrupole check his rockets before launching or fire (Read: Murder via piranha tank - avoiding severance obligations!)

[adam]

Added this to original post, just under the CONCEPTS title:

(NOTE: These concepts may or may not drive the final art style of the environment. This will be determined once I start doing tests in side of UDK, and have some fun with rendering techniques.)

[bbob]

Solid planning, I should do that.. lol

Really fun looking so far, I hope you catch that crazy/awesome vibe the whole thing has.

[Clockwork]

Here's the SpeedTree examples.

http://img716.imageshack.us/i/speedtree01.jpg/
http://img716.imageshack.us/i/speedtree02.jpg/
http://img33.imageshack.us/i/speedtree03.jpg/
http://img204.imageshack.us/i/speedtree04.jpg/
http://img204.imageshack.us/i/speedtree05.jpg/
http://img33.imageshack.us/i/speedtree06.jpg/
http://img229.imageshack.us/i/speedtree07.jpg/

Just some quick and dirty ones. You can make custom materials (diffuse, normal, spec) for trunks/branches/stalks, and you can also make custom leaves/fronds. You can also make meshes, and use instead of leaves. Oranges, apples, or whatever else you'd like to put on a tree. Severed heads.

[adam]

Right on man, thanks for sharing these.

[b1ll]

Cool idea Brome, I always love the Look and style of Evil Genius! Thoses characters were Sweet!

HAve fun

[ZacD]

Right on man, thanks for sharing these.
I saw a few of their videos on youtube, made me want to try it out. Too bad you have to email them to just download the 30 day free trial.

[[HP]]

Definitely looking forward! GL

[Swizzle]

I fiddled around with SpeedTree not too long ago. It's a pretty powerful tool. It has some really good example files that come with it, too. The automated rigging and deformation is fantastic.

[KateC]

This is going to be preposterously good. The level of detail and organization in the original concept is really inspiring.

[Zpanzer]

I saw a few of their videos on youtube, made me want to try it out. Too bad you have to email them to just download the 30 day free trial.

SpeedTree is included with the UDK, install UDK and there should be a seperate folder somewhere including the exe files... It's really easy to get into and very fun to play around with.

Another cool feature in SpeedTree is that you can make the trees adjust to certain things in their environment. There's an example tree that wraps it's root around a rock(custom mesh importet).

[Swizzle]

SpeedTree should be in the Start menu after you install the UDK.

[adam]

How are the tree's from SpeedTree placed in to your scene in UDK? Are they painted? Attached to a material? Manually placed? Volume placement?

[danshewan]

SpeedTree should be in the Start menu after you install the UDK.

Mine wasn't, but you can find it in the UDK / Binaries directory.

[adam]

NEXT UP: Taking a small prop and some flora and determining the art style of the assets and textures for the rest of the environment, in-engine.

[LlamaJuice]

^ *will tune in*

I'm excited to see how this goes, and to see your work with Speed Tree if you decide to use it.

[Progg]

I love the fact Speedtree is included with the UDK now... It's so awesome just to mess around with.

[Clockwork]

How are the tree's from SpeedTree placed in to your scene in UDK? Are they painted? Attached to a material? Manually placed? Volume placement?

You can place each model individually, manual style. You can also use terrain layers (DecoLayers), say, you have made 5-6 different small bush type flora, put these in a deco layer and set a varying intensity for them, to control the chances of which ones will be placed. So when you start painting them out it's randomized based on your intensity strength for each mesh. You can work this way with DecoLayers for all types of meshes. Painting out just random fallen leaves on the ground, or rocks, or skulls and bones. It can have quite a few uses.

[adam]

Right, so SpeedTree is a tool to quickly make trees. Placing them in your scene is an entirely different method. (This is what I wanted to figure out.)

Thank you!

[cow1787]

I haven't messed with the UDK as much as I've liked to yet, either. But I've been reading through all the UDK papers and i'm in about the same boat you are, haha.

Not entirely sure how the trees are painted in, but if you decide to - or ever need to - do it manually, you can change a few settings in the mesh's properties to have a min/max and random rotation and scale when you press ALT+S+CLICK. Give it a quick read through and get back to us with results!

http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=69345&page=3

[flaagan]

With all the other goofiness you've got going on, why not make one of those plants in the river's edge concept a hidden microphone?

[adam]

flaagan - hahaha that's not a bad idea!

As for placing the tree's, I'm already aware and well tuned in that regard (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/bpg_wastedhope_wallpaper_1280x800_01.jpg), I was just thinking Speedtree was involved in that process if/when you use Speedtree - and I'm glad its not :D

[Nitewalkr]

Right, so SpeedTree is a tool to quickly make trees. Placing them in your scene is an entirely different method. (This is what I wanted to figure out.)

Thank you!

TBH, if this is your own concept (and not the company concept you work at) good practice is to model your own tree, rather than using a speed tree modeler. (I just over looked and figured that it is another scheme for lazy people) :D Like it is pretty much telling you, if you cant make trees we will make one for you or provide you sticks and leaves to customize it.

Than again its your own call because its your own project my good Sir. Adam.

[adam]

I'll do whatever is best for the project ;)

[slipsius]

you should definitely have one of those fake rocks that have a spare key in it...

all this high tech stuff, easily avoided because of a fake rock key would just be hilarious. even evil geniuses forget their keys once in a while.

[ZacD]

Or one of those cheesy speaker rocks http://www.seeoursound.com/bogen/speaker/rock.jpg

[adam]

The goal is to share every process along the way. Especially with the stuff that'll be 'throw away' work. With that in mind, continue reading.

I was pretty tired after work today and ended up plunking myself on the couch for a tv marathon. I only managed to try out one idea I had for the textures and their style so I did it on the textures I'd use for the cliff faces.

The diffuse and normal have been filtered (Dry Brush, then Reduce Noise) while the Specular remains the same. (Small note: I did these textures waaay at the beginning of this project, a few weeks before I posted. Back then they were 'photo real'.)

The way the cliff faces will be constructed are as pieces I can place on top of the terrain. Since terrain in Unreal (and most engines) is just a tessellated grid you raise and lower points on, I need a mesh set I can use to get the hard lines you see in my concept (and hard transitions from ground to cliff to grass, etc.)

So tonights is 2 fold: Do 1 piece and duplicate it a bunch of times. If the result is at least 'OK' then I know it idea should work fine.

Do a quick pass on existing textures of mine to see if I can nail a process down for achieving the look I want, knowing full well the textures themselves could a.) Not look like rock in the end or b.) Be throw-away work.

The textures themselves feel off - as Eraserhead told me on MSN they feel a bit like brain matter and not so much like rock. I some what agree, but still think the results are neat for a rock surface. I'm going to be doing proper textures for this sort of test the next evening I come home and am not completely wiped from work but in the mean time, check these out:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_rocks01.jpg


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_rocks01b.jpg

[Slipstream]

It does look kinda weird at a distance, but that's a neat effect at close range

When you're handling static meshes like that, is it better to use a tiling material that can be applied to a number of different meshes or bsp? Or should each of those get there own texture sheet specific to that mesh?

[adam]

I'm just using a tiling texture applied to a surface. From there I cut some details in to the mesh to accentuate the details of the texture.

Oh ya! One of the things I wanted to learn - the advance blending method - I've got nailed down :D [EDIT] I was going to link to a photo of the grass blending at the top of the mesh seen in the images above, but Dropbox is refusing to finish uploading the 800k file. Grr! Ah well.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_rocks01c.jpg

[adam]

I have a question for proficient Mudbox users out there: Is it possible to create something I could use for the normal map of a tiling texture? I know this is possible with zBrush, but I am wondering if Mudbox can do the same thing???

EDIT: I'm also hoping people might have work flow ideas on how this could be done using Mudbox and Photoshop magic.

[EarthQuake]

you just want to sculpt a tile in mud? A simple way to do it is just go right at it, try to think a little about the detail you put on the edges, bake it to a plane and then go in and clone stamp to get a tile going as you would from a photo or something.... you wont get correct AO out of it this way, but you can use crazybump to make up for that

[adam]

Yea I am looking to do the normals for my cliff face texture in Mudbox, bake it out and use that to create the final material. This would replace what you see above, and read like rock instead of brain matter.

So you think I could start with a plane, do my rock surface on that then just stamp it up in Photoshop to make it tile properly? Hmm.. dirty! (Just like I like it.)

I'll give this a go tonight.

I was thinking I could also do 1 or 2 rock models/surfaces in mud and just copy & rotate them around until I have enough to fill up a plane, then bake that.

Either way - cool shit. I'll try this tonight or @ lunch.

[vahl]

actually the texture looks completely random it doesn't even look like stylized rock to be honest one thing you can do is actually have a modular set of rocks textured uniquely and all tiling and fitting together (there are many tricks that can help achieving such a result, many of which we have discussed together quite often, including the one with the double normal map, which you can do in unreal too). also, having real good ref of a nice looking rock panel would be a good thing, athough I'm sure you DO have refs, none seem good enough since you got this result. I probably sound quite harsh, but you know how I am :)

oh, also,
make it playable

[Joao Sapiro]

yeah doesnt seem like rocks at all, more like dry chocolate mixed with bark ? would be awesome to see your photoreal textures as well , to see the 2 versions . Keep at this man !

[adam]

Thanks for the 2 replies fellas :thumbup:

Generally this is why I don't post stuff like this (or why you'd show your lead EVERY step) as it can be misinterpreted, commented on out of context, or the plan for the object is not completely 'seen'. However, I want to be transparent with this as much as I can as I think that's a good way to achieve the ultimate goal of this project.

The 2 images above were posted to show the results of 2 tests I did using an old and shitty rock texture that was never meant for cliff faces. Those tests & results, were:


..1 quick material tests I did for nailing a process of material creation down. (Using a higher frequecy specular on top of a rather differently styled diffuse & normal map.)
..1 piece of geometry that was cut and conformed to the shapes of the tiling texture underneath. YES the texture was shit - as previously mentioned - but the result of cutting and conforming to the texture worked nicely (not really shown within the image).

So, once I have a rock & cliff material set I am happy with, I will be using the above to processes to achieve the look I am after. In addition to those 2 points of process, the 3rd will be to use uniquely unwrapped rocks that are of a smaller size than the faces to compliment the larger cliff faces.

Based on this, here's whats next:


Complete a PROPER cliff face texture set.
Create the materials for this set within UDK, using the technique I used above to see if the results are good.
Move on and detail a couple of cliff face pieces using this set.
Worry about the smaller pieces later, as there's bigger fish to fry once this is done.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit!

EDIT: Oh ya! This (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/Cliffs0020_S.jpg) is more or less the look of cliff face rock I am planning on going with. I like the square nature of their shapes and that its rounded at the top (where it moves away from the camera.)

TL;DR: I agree with vahl & jonny and it looks like I didn't clarify that in my post from last night.

[bbob]

Check this out for doing tiles in mudbox:

http://area.autodesk.com/tutorials/mudbox_techniques_for_props_3_tileable_stone

[Clockwork]

Well, I thought that rock face/panel worked out nicely, I understood it was a WIP/test, and it was a good start.

Sculpting, texturing, tiling, sort of related links:

http://www.brameulaers.com/tutorials/generic_wall_tutorial/generic_wall_tutorial.html
http://osart3d.wordpress.com/home-page/tutorial-creating-perfectly-tiling-meshes-in-zbrush-for-use-in-videogame-environments/

[adam]

Ah awesome! This will be very helpful :D

[adam]

Small update tonight for everyone with what I am up to. Tonight and lastnight my focus was on A.) Actual rock surfaces I was going to use, and B.) Testing an idea on capping all elevated terrain with these rock pieces.

So tonights post is just to show the idea of capping all elevated terrain with these rock pieces and to use this technique to create the cliffs I want from my concept.

Pieces like this - with a set of smaller rocks to create stronger silhouette - will pretty much be my solution for the cliff faces/rock surfaces in this scene.

There's also some modulated blending happening between two rock textures.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_rocks02c.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_rocks02d.jpg

[adam]

Here's a shot of what these look like in Max, and a brief (read: VERY) description of how I made them, and what I am working on next/tomorrow:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_rocks02max01.jpg

[bugo]

looking very rocky! lemme ask, why are you using hard edges on the rocks? or its just the lighting going on?

[Clockwork]

Because rocks have hard edges?
I don't know, but IMO smoothing everything does not look good.

[adam]

Thank you, and good question!

It's about 70/30 at the moment. 70% smooth, 30% hard edge. It's just something I did earlier tonight and liked. I just tested them completely smoothed and am not sure if I like it as much as the hard edges make them feel even rockier..

[Anuxinamoon]

Dude, those concepts are epic. I laughed when I saw 'owl DESTROY' haha and the 'blast off fail'. Totally genius!

Love those rocks too. I always had a hard time with rocks. Those look great!

Looking to see more textures :3

[natetheartist]

I must say, the tiling is heavily apparent on the rock-face.

[Eltrex06]

looking good, i'm really liking how this is turning out, but i have to agree with nate, it looks really tile ish

[roosterMAP]

good job on the rocks and tree's. this is something special. i cant tell!

[adam]

I'm not worried about the tiling on the rocks at this point. If - when its entirely dressed, lit, blended and placed its still noticeable - then I'll worry about removing it ;)

Thanks guys :)

[JasonLavoie]

Damn adam, those rocks look ace, thanks for the quick breakdown too :)

[Mark Dygert]

oh man how did I miss this? This is looking great, a bit ambitious but then you really don't half ass stuff.

Looking forward to seeing more!

[sampson]

on ths http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_rocks02max01.jpg image
how did you go from flat plane to that?? did you use zbrush or just standard modelling methods?

[adam]

I made a plane that held the texture completely, no tiling. From there I cut in where all the edges of rocks were in the texture, then added more edges to pull and push shapes out.

[Nitewalkr]

Here's a shot of what these look like in Max, and a brief (read: VERY) description of how I made them, and what I am working on next/tomorrow:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_rocks02max01.jpg

.........wow...awsome!

[easterislandnick]

Hi, What is your rock texture like, is it a generic texture that can be applied to any geometry or is it baked out from specific geometry. I am creating boulders at the moment and do not know if I am going to do rock specific texture or a more general texture approach. Does that make sense?

EDIT - Should have read the whole post, all ready been explained!

[Rick_D]

I demand more.

That is all.

[whats_true]

Solid as always mate.

[adam]

So, not much work over the weekend. I believe I'm getting sick (again, dammit) as Friday night and Saturday I was getting stupid-bad vertigo and still am up to me writing this (only not as bad).

The goal was to at least get started on some flora for the cliff faces; decorators. So, yesterday I knocked out a bush model and a flower model, as you'll see in the pic below.

I'm aware of the seams on the rocks but for this project I'm using some awesome advice Eraserhead gave me once, and that is to move forward and not get hung up on little things. It's an awesome approach to take when working something out, as you'll always have time to come back and fix up little nuances like that. This approach may not be for everyone, though.

Ok, enough jibber jabber!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_rocks03a.jpg

[JasonLavoie]

mmmmm... rocky and delicious...

http://images.dailytech.com/frontpage/fp__homer_drool.jpg

[LoTekK]

Just wanted to say that this looks yummy. That is all. :)

[bbob]

ooh, thats some sweet, sweet shrub lovin'!

[hawken]

so, who's gonna make him an evil genius player model?

[bbob]

That actually sounds very tempting, hehe..

[Eltrex06]

ohh very nice really liking the flora, not sure about the flowers but that's a personal opinion. ohh well :)

[adam]

Ha! That would be interesting...

[JasonLavoie]

Hey adam, can I see the leaves setup you have... is it layered or is it just on a plane sheet? (for individual ones)

[adam]

Sure, in a couple of hours I'll snap a picture of the max file for you (on my lunch).

I can tell you though its a bunch of layered planes and a couple of core 'trunk' pieces in the middle, which I might remove in the end.

Right now they weigh in at ~500 triangles each.

[Gilgamesh]

Really need a decent tut on how do to flora and fauna because it's really my weakest area, yours looks pretty damn good.

[LlamaJuice]

^This.

I'd appreciate to see how you approached it, 'cause I've failed several times before with it.

[Sandro]

Awesomo. Lovely colors..

Rock texture looks a bit smeared and stretchy here and there, but I'm sure you're aware of this. Moving on and fixing stuff based on it's importance/overall impact sounds like a nice idea.

[metalliandy]

Looking good Adam!
It would be sweet if you added some moss on the rocks so that the flowers have some nice contact colours where they hit the rock.

Cant wait to see more :)

[cholden]

I look in this thread, but don't really comment.

[adam]

lol chris, awesome ;)

metalliandy, good suggestion and your avatar scares the hell out of me.

As for getting a mesh shot of the bushes - no go. I have to wait until I get home as I was having licensing issues at work for Max 2009.. grr..

Thanks everyone.

[metalliandy]

metalliandy, good suggestion and your avatar scares the hell out of me.

haha...i was wondering if you would ever pick up on that :P
Does this mean i have to pay you royalties or something now?

There is a larger pic in the creepy guy avatar thread if you want to print off a copy ^^

lol

[jakelear]

Hey adam,
Your planning is inspirational. I can definitely appreciate the thought and time that went into that.
So far the stuff looks great. I eagerly anticipate your next update!

[makecg]

cant wait to see more! looking sweet as hell

[adam]

Thanks guys.

Ok, so someone asked about the bushes so I took a max screenshot to show the 2 meshes I have so far, and their texture sheet.

The texture sheet is in progress (as I do more bushes I'll add to this texture).

The bush (not the flower) may be a bit on the heavier side - it weighs in at 500 triangles - but its easily tunable, so I am not worried about that at this point. It's referenced to high hell (re: Unreal) and updating its tri count will be a breeze. I may even do it tonight!

The goods:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_forum_flora01.jpg

[JasonLavoie]

Thankya very much Adam.

Is there a specific reason why you flipped some faces... is it meant to fake shadows / create some contrast to help break everything up?

Either way i find it really effective.

Edit: eggs on mai face :P

[adam]

They aren't flipped, just facing the other direction. :P

[man_o_mule]

looking swank. keeping an eye on this one so i can apply some of these ideas to my own work.

[mrturtlepaste]

This is really awesome so far, can't wait to see more. Thanks for taking your time to post like this and share your thought process. It is extremely helpful!

[torontoanimator]

hi there! i was flipping through this thread and im really loving your rock sculpt. I was also sculpting something similar to this a while back, and im jsut wondering where the description for how you did it was. I noticed that you said you would give a brief description of the process, but i couldnt find one lol. Just curious because i never really learned ffd's in school and i really want to know how to sculpt rock like you :) thanks

[adam]

There was no sculpting involved. I just had the texture applied to a plane and cut the geometry in to the plane based one the texture information. From there I used the FFD modifier to bend it a bunch of times.

As for updates... I haven't any. I was hit really bad with Vertigo on Friday and haven't felt the same while sitting at a computer since, so its hard to want to do work when I'm at home.

I am hoping to get started on the terrain assets (textures + grass + weeds, etc) tonight so MAYBE I'll have something up later on tonight. Fingers crossed.

[Clockwork]

Hey Adam, the way you did your rock face, did you UV it, or was there no need for that, just slap the material right on?

[adam]

The rock face's uv is exactly square, to the texture I applied to it.

[Mr Bear]

Really nice to see this come together bit by bit. Adam, can i ask why some of that foliage on the texture map has those blobs of colour as its background?

[adam]

Yeah its so when the alpha bleeds over it doesn't sample the black pixels but rather a colour thats similar to the leaves. :)

So.. my vertigo is going away and lastnight I was able to get working on the terrain textures and their style. I decided to start off with some mud/dirt for this.

I like the end result, being a mix of 'style' and the original source I used. The good news is that if the technique works for the other textures, it should be a relatively fast process as this didn't take me more than 20 minutes to do.

I made this image my desktop wallpaper, set to tile. It makes for a rather mute desktop - I like it!


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_textures01.jpg

[LlamaJuice]

Looking rather swell sir, keep at it!

[Mr Bear]

Yeah its so when the alpha bleeds over it doesn't sample the black pixels but rather a colour thats similar to the leaves. :)

So.. my vertigo is going away and lastnight I was able to get working on the terrain textures and their style. I decided to start off with some mud/dirt for this.

I like the end result, being a mix of 'style' and the original source I used. The good news is that if the technique works for the other textures, it should be a relatively fast process as this didn't take me more than 20 minutes to do.

I made this image my desktop wallpaper, set to tile. It makes for a rather mute desktop - I like it!



Thanks Adam, as an aspiring student for Environment Art you're an inspiration :). Liking the texture there, so pro it can act as a wallpaper and an ingame texture, woot.

[SnowInChina]

oh my god, i love the owl turret <3

[adam]

I have the grass done, for now. I won't show it in the engine until I have 3D grass and some tree's created and placed, but for now you can see the texture down below. I used the same method on it as I did with the mud/dirt.

I really wish I could do advance blend methods with the terrain in Unreal instead of a straight gradient blend. While I am not too worried about this, because they won't be seen much once the vegetation is placed, its still something that would be nice to see.

Question for UDK pro's: Does specular work on Terrain? I swear its not :( I've tried cranking up the light values of my lights and the specular multiplier just to see if its working at all, and its seemingly not.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_textures02.jpg

[ZacD]

Lovely style.

[55joe]

wow man looks really nice. cant wait to see it together

[Daniel Doerksen]

so what did u end up doing for it? looks like to layers one stylized one not and a difference mask?
neat effect

[SimonT]

like this alot!

[LlamaJuice]

Question for UDK pro's: Does specular work on Terrain? I swear its not :( I've tried cranking up the light values of my lights and the specular multiplier just to see if its working at all, and its seemingly not.


Look in your terrain actor's properties in the lighting tab. I'm fairly certain that bEnableSpecular is off by default for some reason.

Anyhow, since this method of making your textures is working out so well for you would you mind sharing what you're doing? The grass and dirt both look awesome, and I'm really excited to see this project progress.

[metalliandy]

This is coming along nicely Adam :)
I dont really have any crits at the moment.

[Justin Meisse]

I hope he doesn't mind but I always refer people to Chris Arnold's (http://www.chrisarnoldart.com/) work on WAR when it comes to terrain textures and blending, specifically the stuff for Hunter's Vale (http://www.chrisarnoldart.com/pages/hv/war_hv.html) and Land of the Dead (http://www.chrisarnoldart.com/pages/tk/war_tk.html). The textures are made to work with each other, incorporating elements from the texture it blends into. It helps get rid of that straight blend look a bit.

[adam]

Justin_Meisse: Awesome links, thank you for sharing. My original iteration of the grass texture was the mud texture with some grass rather randomly placed. This revealed some of the original mud texture below, but didn't come off 'green' enough to me in Unreal. I do like what Christopher Arnold did with his stuff, so I may go back and try again. I am not TOO worried about these textures, though, as there is going to be a LOT of vegetation, props and shadows casting on to them.

metalliandy: Ha, cool.

LlamaJuice: Ok great, I will when I get home. Very lame it'd be off by default :\

SimonT: Woo! Thank you.

Daniel Doerkson: Something like that! I'll explain it below. It's very simple.

55joe: Right on - me either! Thank you!

OK, so for the 2 terrain textures I...



Started with a photo (http://www.cgtextures.com/login.php?&texid=8970&destination=texview.php?id=8970&PHPSESSID=d99ca29b38a389fbac15a88447341166)of what I wanted then made sure it tiled.
Duplicated that layer ontop of itself, no blending method.
On the duplicated layer - the one on top - I ran 2 filters on it with varied settings.

Drybrush
Remove Noise


On the original photo, I did a Remove Noise filter from it.
I created a Black & White cloud layer, with its contrast turned up about 50%. From there I selected only the black from that Cloud layer and used it to mask the Duplicated photo layer, so that it would mix some of the filtered image with some of the original.
The effect ended up being 2 things, which were exactly what I wanted for this and other textures going forward that I don't need to hand paint:

I liked the results.
It was fast to replicate.


The mud is a bit different with the process, as I mixed a few photos together but the technique thereafter was the same.

[Justin Meisse]

Hey, I like that terrain texture technique, I'm gonna have to steal that.

[adam]

Right on. Play with the Drybrush settings before running the Remove Noise filter. I find a bigger brush (but not huge) works really good for the results.

[slipsius]

wow man, that is some nice scenery so far. keep it up! cant wait to see more!

[adam]

Let me recap what I am doing specifically right now: Trying to nail the art style and setup of the core elements of this environment. That is, nailing how I want to use rocks, vegetation, water and texture blends to dress an entire forest area. Once I nail that in a small area (seen below) I will use these techniques for the ENTIRE environment.

At this point, what I am NOT worried about, is: Lighting and atmosphere, the 'Evil Genius' elements of this environment, animations, creatures/critters, and so on. The core environment will take up the majority of real-estate for this and I need to nail it now before I move on.

OK, so... an update of sorts:I haven't been TOO busy on this for this past week. I'm still getting over some vertigo and have been pretty sleepy. That said, mainly I've finished 2 other textures for the terrain (now blending 4 textures) and a bunch of vegetation stuff for said terrain. This vegetation is mainly grass, weeds, etc. etc. I still might do 1 or 2 more pieces, but its nothing for me to get hung up on.

The sky is a shitty chop job in Photoshop so I have more than a black sky when I show it.

As well, the lighting isn't an indication of the final lighting or atmosphere. I was tinkering around with colours before I decided to hit the sack tonight and this is where I've left it (white with a tinge of orange).

So, before I post a higher res shot then what I am about to post, i want to have the follow things placed AND complete:



At least 1 tree type of the 3 I plan on creating.
Rock models of a lower triangle count to litter the ground with. The ones I am currently using in the below picture are from the cliff face scaled down.
Cat-tail weeds for where the water hits the terrain
A proper water shader (not one I butchered from UDK)

Until then check out the teaser below and let me know if you guys have any questions or comments about my processes up until this point.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_tease01.jpg

EDIT: Oh ya! Some of you have been sending me PM's asking me specific questions - which is great! - but I think they'd be better asked in here, publicly. Chances are someone else would like to know what you'd like to know and if I (or any of the other pro's around the boards) do my/our best to answer it here, then everyone who's interested wins.

[bbob]

Holy carp! This is looking awesome! Why the low resolution?

[adam]

I know you guys hate reading (haha) but it would do you no harm to read the posts I write* ;) Promise!



*I know I know, wall of text. Blah blah BOO-HOO, READ! :D

[bbob]

D'oh, missed that one line >_<

[ZacD]

I really like the rock texture, but I don't think it really sits well with the rest of the scene. It needs an earthier color (a little bit too bright too) and the material looks a little off, I did a lil paint-over, nothing drastic.

http://i46.tinypic.com/28qr9zt.jpg

[bbob]

I agree that the rocks look a little bit on the chalk side, but I dont really think that it hurts it. It rather makes the contrast bigger, which in my point of view is a good thing, now that you are going for a stylized look.

[adam]

Thanks guys! With coloured lighting,things mesh together better so at this point I'm not too worried. Once I've added some in, and if they're still to off from one another, I'll throw colour back in.

[doeseph]

So how are you doing the sky in your image? Are you taking a render into photoshop and painting over the background color, or are you using a sky-box in Max? Or are you using a UDK sky texture?

[adam]

I think I said I wouldn't post again until I had a few more things done, but whatever it's been a while since I posted.

The cat-tails are done and in and I am currently working on a couple rock models. One of them are done, the other will be completed this weekend and HOPEFULLY I can finally get started on tree's and finally make this mofo look like a forest.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_setup01.jpg

[Ged]

those rocks look velvety like theres some wierd freznel going on, other than that Im loving it

[Prophecies]

Wow, that looks amazing. I'm still pretty new to environments, and I don't even know where to start to make the large rock faces like you have there. I've looked up tutorials and such, but most only show how to make rocks and such. Did you initially sculp those in zbrush/mudbox? Or is it 100% done in max?

[adam]

If by velvetty you mean the smooth tender touch of velvet on your bare cheak after a sweaty romper with your favourite lady/man friend then yes. Velvet indeed. Rawr.

That or its the fresnal I have.

Prophecies - Check back a few pages, I show how I made those rocks :D

[HAL]

While I like the bright rocks in general and the fog and stuff you added to the last image, that fresnel stuff wasnt that present in the last image as in the new one, maybe take a look at what you've changed?

[Prophecies]

Yeah I did already. I understand how you used a ton of FFD modifiers but how did you match the geometry of the rock to the texture? I tried myself and the UVs deform with the geometry... and I can't find how to lock UVs.

[adam]

In Max? UV's should be locked by default.

HAL - I'm not of the opinion that it looks bad to have that fresnal on the rocks at this point. It's too early to make decisions like that. There's always been a fresnal on that, just to varying degree's of impact. ;)

[Ged]

Yeah I did already. I understand how you used a ton of FFD modifiers but how did you match the geometry of the rock to the texture? I tried myself and the UVs deform with the geometry... and I can't find how to lock UVs.

have you still got a uvunwrap modifier in the stack? if so collapse that and the uvs will be locked I had this problem recently.

adam - Yeah its a little bit velvety like a lady friend lol but more like fresnel, theres probably a compromise somewhere there lookin forward to those trees :)

[bbob]

Got a bit of a crit on the reed bits you added in the new picture. The green on the stem is very bright compared to all the other shrubbery.

If you want a contrast, I suggest making the stems pale yellow instead, like this: http://www.sendler.co.uk/images/Newburgh/Town/large/reeds2.jpg

[HAL]

haha xD didnt want to say that it looks bad it just looks different :P

[adam]

bbob the pic i posted here is a bit old. I took it to show some friends I like better than you guys.*

They've already been changed to be more fitting - good catch though!

*hahaha, im kidding. Or am I?

[Prophecies]

Hey, so this is what I am encountering when I am trying to form my rocks... is this what is supposed to happen, and I'm just an idiot for not knowing how to do this? Or is there truly a step I am missing? Maybe I'm just stupid.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/SuperCarpet/Weird.jpg
(http://img213.imageshack.us/i/weirdi.jpg/)

[bbob]

Yeah adam, I'm a right clever bastard, I am. :P

Though, perhaps not as loved.

@prophecies: The difference between what you are doing and what I suspect adam did is that you are moving the geometry in all the axes, whereas if you want to keep the UV coordinates you should cut the geometry and move verts on the Z axis, perpindicular to the plane.

Hope it makes sense..

[Jeremy Lindstrom]

...

[Matroskin]

@ Prophecies - just dont move it too far in order to reduce stretching of the texture ;)

[Prophecies]

Yeah that is what I figured, but the main thing I'm not quite sure how to do is aligning the verts to the shape of the rock. If I try aligning my edges along the curve of the rock, it just wont let me.

[Jeremy Lindstrom]

you can also cut some lines in there to match the rocks instead of trying to align the verts

[Prophecies]

*slaps head* Wow why didn't I think of that before. Gosh I feel really, really dumb right now. Thanks.

P.S. Sorry for hijacking your thread Adam.

[adam]

What? No way dude. This threads meant for everyone so if you've questions about something I'm doing its more than welcomed in here. I'm glad others were able to show you the light :D

EDIT: Yeah don't start from a grid like that. Start from 1 plane and cut the edges in to contour to your texture underneath. Then buy it a couple of drinks while flirting with it slightly before you try to manipulate it in to shapes and forms it may not want to do.

Check this (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_rocks02max01.jpg) out. The mesh on the left went down on the first date, the filthy whore. See how the edges line up with the texture? From there I just push and pull verts to get what I wanted and in return it gives me a little spanking when I get off the couch to take a whiz.

[Prophecies]

Thanks for the pointer. As for the rock face texture, is it photosourced? Photoshop filters? Or both?

[adam]

Check out the rest of this thread :)

[Anuxinamoon]

I think I said I wouldn't post again until I had a few more things done, but whatever it's been a while since I posted.

The cat-tails are done and in and I am currently working on a couple rock models. One of them are done, the other will be completed this weekend and HOPEFULLY I can finally get started on tree's and finally make this mofo look like a forest.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_setup01.jpg

Dude that looks so sexy! The colour pallet is very green and brown, not that that is bad or anything but will you be adding some other colour variation in there? Perhaps making the sky a nice blue and tieing that into the foreground with blue or purple flowers instead of the red ones you have :D

Also I dunno if its me working long hours or if I'm just loosing my mind but that rock wall looks like it can come alive at any minute! =O

http://i50.tinypic.com/25ps28k.jpg


haha its still awesome though. That rock is sexy.

[felipefrango]

Just wanted to say congratulations, this is looking spectacular already, I'll be following this for sure as I want to get involved in creating environments as well and I'm still confused about the workflow.

[soulstice]

adam that looks amazing, keep it up! :D

[Disco Stu]

Very nice indeed :D

[JasonLavoie]

Love the foliage adam, you are really breathing love into this environment (*takes note) :P

I was wondering, is there any specific way you go about cutting detail into the plane (for your rocks) like any tools you use that can make the process faster, or do you just use the cut tool.

And.. one other thing I was wondering, is there a way in Max where you can retain the initial UV's (of the plane) as you cut and move verts around?

[adam]

Thanks everyone :) I through some tree's from my old 'Leaving Solace' scene and its looking even more like a forest now. I just have to do some actual new tree's for this before I post again.

Jason - Cut tool just make sure 'Preserve UV's' isn't checked.

[Divine Rage]

I'm loving this so far. I do think the fresnel effect on the rocks is a bit much in some areas.
Don't get me wrong, I love the effect, but it seems a bit blurry or something in certain areas. Maybe try it at like 85% of what you're using now.

[kodiak]

can't wait to see where this goes, really loving it so far.

I'm gonna try making some similar foliage for a current project of mine, wish me luck : p

[JasonLavoie]

Jason - Cut tool just make sure 'Preserve UV's' isn't checked.

hahaha... I always have that checked... it just sounded so... nice.

Thanks adam, thats gonna help me SOOO much!

[adam]

These are not the tree's I'll be using. They're from my 'Leaving Solace (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/ls1.jpg)' environment on my portfolio, without their leaves. I just dropped some in to get an idea for size/scale.

I was tired last night.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_setup01b.jpg

[Gallows]

Great work so far, if it doesn't effect much of the aesthetics I think it'd be cool to see some trees kind of form an arch over the closest section of the two cliff sides, but that's just me. Keep it coming Adam!

[fearian]

Wow I would never have thought that was the same tree as your previous environment... :poly122:

[Prophecies]

Adam, how many tri's do your rocks weigh in at per segment?

[Nitewalkr]

Awsome work so far Mr. Adam.

[crazyfingers]

whoa, those trees are crazy, definitely looks more like an evil genious's hidden forest base now. They kinda throw the scale off though. If i think about just the rocks and fog volume, the scene has a much grander scale, when i think about the foliage it suddenly shrinks down. Sure you're workin' on it though, keep it commin'!

[adam]

Please read what I write whenever I make a post. That's all I ask - and most of you are, which is great!

I want these threads to be about more than just the images I'm posting, as the information I am sharing is just as important if we're going to learn together.

Thanks for the comments so far. I'll get back to you about the tri counts as I just got in and its late.

These tree's were a poor choice as they're too thick at the bottom and don't help gauge scale every well. But they do show how this will start to fill out with a busier horizon. My tree's for this scene will be skinnier and taller, with much more visual noise to them since they'll have their leaves.

So with that, Mr. Crazyfingers :poly124:, I give you...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/ugh.jpg

[DnS]

Adam, I think everything in the scene looks good, but you should really work on the little green men. I think they kind of pull the eye away from the really successful environment work. ;)

Thanks for sharing man, I'm definitely tracking this thread and enjoying it.

[bbob]

Hehe, those leafless placeholders does make it look deliciously creepy though.

Some blueish hue, heavier fog, and a squirrel in a top hat, it would be epic. But now I'm sidetracking, hehe.

[crazyfingers]

yeah, i read that dude, thought you'd want some feedback on scale in particular ;). My bad though if I took it the wrong way hehe.

[crasong]

Hey Adam, this project is just completely inspiring!

Been following this thread, read through your walls of text, so I'm pretty sure this question hasn't been asked.

How did you model your rocks? I am trying to understand how organic environments are made, and rocks and trees still stump me. (no pun intended) As my environmental modelling so far has all been flat planes with textures.

Hope its not too much trouble! Otherwise you could just point me in the direction of some basic tutorials.

Keep up the good work man, I'm rooting for you!:D

[doeseph]

How did you model your rocks? I am trying to understand how organic environments are made, and rocks and trees still stump me. (no pun intended) As my environmental modelling so far has all been flat planes with textures.

He talked about his technique on the previous page:

Start from 1 plane and cut the edges in to contour to your texture underneath. Then buy it a couple of drinks while flirting with it slightly before you try to manipulate it in to shapes and forms it may not want to do.

Check this (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_rocks02max01.jpg) out. The mesh on the left went down on the first date, the filthy whore. See how the edges line up with the texture? From there I just push and pull verts to get what I wanted and in return it gives me a little spanking when I get off the couch to take a whiz.

[crasong]

*smacks forehead* !#)@#

Guess its been a longer day than i thought, thanks for pointing that out doeseph!

But just to double check, does this mean that you texture a plane and cut the one face accordingly?

I am terribly new at this. thanks again!

[adam]

yeah, i read that dude, thought you'd want some feedback on scale in particular ;). My bad though if I took it the wrong way hehe.

<3

Thanks everyone else. It's awesome to see others helping out others if/when I'm not around to answer things myself. Awesome!

Yeah I texture 1 single plane then cut the geometry in.

[Tumerboy]

Nice Rocks yo. Keep it up.

[man_o_mule]

after the trees were added this scene totally reminds me of one of levels from the first Left 4 Dead.

[Spacey]

After pulling up many of these stubborn plants from our beachfront this past summer, I notice the cattails don't look quite right.

This is a pretty good example (http://www.greenwing.org/teachersguide/sum00%20jpgs/yn2.jpg) of what the whole plant looks like. I'm by no means a cattail expert, but we have plenty surrounding our lake. From my experience and comparing to yours:
- There's more leaves/grass than tail.
- The leaves are as tall or taller than the tail.
- They're bunched up and grow in stalks.
- I'm not sure if they'd grow so sparse in the wild (especially if left untended).
- To help establish scale, cattails easily grow as tall as a person (especially if left untended).
- They also look really cool when some of them are torn up into fluff! Birds use them for making their nests.


Great tips and info so far in this thread, Adam :)

[Diwan]

Totally following this awesome thread, thanks for sharing your workflow Adam it is indeed very helpful! Keep it up!

[deadpixl]

Loving the thread, thanks for all the great info.

[Tom Ellis]

Amazing work, I think those are the best looking rocks I've ever seen. This project is massively inspirational and helpful on so many levels, sharing even your planning workflow is awesome. Thanks!

Looking forward to seeing this one progress!

I do have one hugely important, totally relevant and entirely critical question though...

What Firefox theme are you using?

:D

[wafff]

Looks great so far, especially those rock faces, and all the explanations have been invaluable. Maybe a silly question, but how are you going about doing the 3d grass in the last few pictures? Is it as simple as just a plane with a 2-sided texture applied to it repeated a lot over the ground?

[haiddasalami]

Looks great so far, especially those rock faces, and all the explanations have been invaluable. Maybe a silly question, but how are you going about doing the 3d grass in the last few pictures? Is it as simple as just a plane with a 2-sided texture applied to it repeated a lot over the ground?

He explains it here. But yeah, its a single plane put over the place with an alpha on it.
http://boards.polycount.net/showpost.php?p=1070873&postcount=110

[Sectaurs]

I'm a bit late to this party; but it's looking great.

really helpful reading other enviro-artist's techniques. particularly with the ground textures, i think you've got yourself a great blend of style, detail, and amount of time required.

looking forward to more.

[Sectaurs]

/hugz

[n88tr]

Dude you should make a map pack and sell it... this stuff is insanely good. Those cattails and bushes are those defaults in unreal or did you make them too?

[doeseph]

Those cattails and bushes are those defaults in unreal or did you make them too?

Those are his as well.

[Lee3dee]

inspiring process Adam :) I enjoying following your work flow.

[adam]

Hey thanks everyone :) I'm in the middle of making the tree's up (and figure out how I'll do them exactly). Once I have the first tree done (birch) I'll post it up and with an outline as to how I've made it.

[ZacD]

More pictures plz, and bigger.

[Justin Meisse]

sweet, I'm planning on a doing a forest environment thread soon because I suck at trees and plants. Hopefully I can learn a thing or two from this.

[doeseph]

I have a question going back to your foliage, specifically the texturing of it. Why don't the solid colors behind the leaf texture show up on the in-game model? How does that work with alpha needing to be present to have nothing else show on the plane except the leaf texture? Is the solid somehow above the texture/not effected by the alpha?

I'm confused.

[adam]

The solid colours are in the background layer and not the same layer as my foliage. So I just ctrl-click the foliage layer to get the marquee selection of my leaves and past that in the alpha channel. The solid colours are just there so that if & when its LOD's there's no bleeding of black or white pixels.

[doeseph]

Ah, I understand now. Thank you!

[doeseph]

I was messing around with your texturing method today and ran into an obstacle I can't seem to get over. I've duplicated my original image and applied the despeckle/dry brush filter to it and then created a new layer for the black and white clouds filter, but I'm confused by your instructions after that.

How are you singling out the black in the clouds layer to apply it as a mask to the duplicate?

edit: Nevermind I think I've figured it out. I used threshold and inverted my mask on the duplicate layer. Here is the result

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3968/genericwood.th.jpg (http://img691.imageshack.us/i/genericwood.jpg/)

[adam]

Yes.

And its Drybrush - Reduce Noise.

[Grimm_Wrecking]

@adam:
I've read through this entire thread a couple times to make sure you hadn't mentioned it before, and maybe I'm just a n00b, but are you doing the (finalized) terrain all in UDK via the terrain gen/mapper or in Max, importing the mesh, then doing all the foliage brushes/blending/etc on that?

[ae.]

I just wanted to pop in say your doing a great job with this thread, But most importantly it looks like your having a lot of fun which is the most important part!

[Josh_Singh]

Doing a little Collab Action with Adam. So here are some early concepts For a Henchman and The Evil Genius of Compound. Dr. Q!
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/josh_drq_01.jpg

A few notes on some design choices.
I thought the base henchman should be a blank Soldier. In a generic Soldier/Drone Design you always want to hide the eyes and to anything you can to make them feel unified and as non-individual as possible. He hase a DEATH-O-MATIC laser pack and rifle, Standard issue.

Design Thoughts on Dr.Q:
I wanted a Dr. Evil Type vibe. Every Evil Genuis has a pet to stroke while they ponder their plans for world domination. In this case a mutated Cockroach, because Cockroaches are survivors, and Dr.Q admires that.
He wears an air filtration system because he is allergic to everything.

This will probably go through another iteration, but this is where I am currently at.

[Mark Dygert]

Ha ha, nice!

[Lee3dee]

sweet concept Josh

[Tom Ellis]

Erm, so now we know what's causing the problems with Polycount lately... there is too much awesomeness in this thread.

I was already loving the progress on this piece, and it just got even better now we're getting some Josh Singh action too.

Concepts look cool, love the note about the allergy thing being the reason for the filtration system on the evil genius!

[Tumerboy]

LAWLZ!

[Prophecies]

I have a question for you, Adam. For your environment, are you going to model the actual environment first? (Rocks, cliffs, bushes, grass, trees, etc) , move on to texturing all those, and then proceed to modelling the props? Or is there no particular order to follow?

[adam]

Glad you guys are digging Dr. Q and his pet roach! Can't wait to see the next iterations, Josh.

As for me, I've a small update from today to post before I move on to some Hemlocks for this scene.

The birch tree is nearly done - finished enough for me to move on to the next tree. Once all 3 tree's are completed and placed around a bit I'll do their final passes to make sure their leaf colours and patterns are meshing well together.

For this tree I'll do a quick rundown of the Birch tree bark. For the Hemlock I'll break down how I went about making it (no Speedtree!).

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_styletests_textures_birch01b.jpg

[Joshua Stubbles]

Handpainted birch! :) End result on that is really great. Highlights on the notches look a liiiiitle strange to me in the scene there, unless that over-accented look is what you're after. Nice work either way though - love to see the rest of the scene flushed out.

[osman]

Haha this already looks like a kickass finished piece, so can't wait to see more!

[ZacD]

Check out that birch, I wanna scratch my back on those trees.

[Sebeuroc]

This is a really sweet looking project. Thanks for posting the birch tree textures, it's helpful to see how others handle textures. Awesome job overall! I can't wait to see the finished product.

[GCMP]

Hey Adam, looking nice so far :)
One crit on the birch trees, something looked wrong so I looked up some reference to check: Those black recessed areas on the trunks have protruding upper and lower lips and the general trunk surface is pretty rough. It's not really a biggie but might add a bit more realism if your going to get in close.

[adam]

GCMP - If I have time for little stuff like that I'll definitely come back to your suggestion. As for the surface of the tree, I couldn't go too noisy with my normal map if I wanted to maintain the softness of the lighting hitting it. So what I did was only bump the main shapes of a birch tree's patten in the normal map and do the rest in the diffuse.

[adam]

Alright, my terrain is buggered and not baking shadows properly. Check out the images below to see what I mean. All my objects are set to cast shadows. Grr..

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_help_terrainshadow.jpg

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_help_terrainshadow2.jpg

[adam]

A, the problem was my lightmap resolution on the terrain. Fixed now!

For shits & giggles I've also adjust my lighting based on the square I outlined in the image above this post. I like taking little breaks to muck around with an environments lighting.

[vcortis]

That's what I was going to suggest. Well at least you figured it out pretty quickly!

[adam]

You see!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_help_terrainshadow_fixed.jpg

[Screwonhed]

im really digging where this is going dude. love your texture work and your cliff models are ace. you can definitely tell youve spent your time. :D

[Flaringo]

looks great, dude!

[teaandcigarettes]

I've been following this project for a while; though I didn't have the time to comment.

Sweet texture work Adam, those birches are looking sick. Mood is really nice, but I'm not a fan of that overblown DOF; seems a bit too strong for my taste.

[adam]

Hahah the DOF and Bloom is just me fucking around with options when I'm bored. I'm in the same camp as you, they don't need to be that maxed out. Generally, when they are, the picture can scream out 'I WAS MADE IN UNREAL!' which I don't generally like to achieve :D

[MikeF]

awesome looking project so far. I really dig the birch tree's the bark is spot on

[Nitewalkr]

Awsome work Mr. Adam!! Your project is really starting to make me jealous and study hard >.<

[Anuxinamoon]

oh wow I love how you hand painted that bark =O

Good to see you got the shadows working ^^ Looks ace!

[g0th]

Nice going!

Looking forward to follow this thread.

[ZacD]

It looks soooo nice fixed, I think the trees/rocks almost have to similar of a color. I like the new water

[duoxan]

i cannot express how awesome and inspiring this is. thank you so much for sharing this with us dude

[Rurouni Strife]

Eagerly awaiting you're little foliage tutorial once your second set of trees is done! I absolutely love this work of yours.

[Ben Apuna]

Looking good Adam.

I like how you showed us that are focusing on the scene as a whole while you work and not getting caught up on the little things. That's a great technique for just getting things done.

Would you mind showing us how you constructed the branches of those trees? They look pretty full yet not too triangle heavy.

[MRico]

Damn.

Beautiful work, Adam!

[willy-wilson]

those rocks look kinda slimy and wet, maybe a little too much rim lighting imo, if thats what's causing that.

[SimonT]

i really like this scene!

[teaandcigarettes]

Hahah the DOF and Bloom is just me fucking around with options when I'm bored. I'm in the same camp as you, they don't need to be that maxed out. Generally, when they are, the picture can scream out 'I WAS MADE IN UNREAL!' which I don't generally like to achieve :D

Hehe. Glad to hear that - overblown DOF was the only thing that really bothered me.

Nevertheless; looking forward to seeing what you will come up with next. I really like that swampy look you have going out there.

[adam]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188/forestbase_forum_hemlock01.jpg

[Rurouni Strife]

Thanks Adam! Definitely going to study this thread more and more from page 1 to the eventual page 22. I'm putting bets on 22 anyway.

[seforin]

adam you cliffs really could use a blend,

I suggest adding a lerp with a vector constand in the red and blue channels.

Keep 2 textures and blend them , have 1 be moss/dirt with a bump offset on it and blend it easier that way.

Just my 2 cents

[Vrav]

I love yau adom. Keep up the good work and do your besht.

sef, that is confounding advice. But if you mean moss on rocks -> hell yes!

[adam]

Hmm!

It's been a plan (http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=69345) to explore different types of blends but for now while I am moving forward I'll stick with the two blends I'm already using*. I'm not convinced the rocks NEED that sort of texture blend happening on them but if they do, I'll add them in to the material.

*Part of my goal was to investigate modulated vertex blending on static meshes and, right now, my rocks are doing that. It's subtle but its an easy way for me to remove any patterns seen in the rock from using 1 tiling texture. So, I've achieved that original goal of mine and if I find that they need a third blend, a grass/moss surface will be it.

[seforin]

vrav: Sorry im talking about unreal shader stuff...if hes doing a real time environment might as well make some interesting shaders that do more blends and crap right?

its not as complicated as it sounds if adam knows the material nodes. He should know what im talking about (hopefully)


SHORT ANSWER: Make moss >>to dirt>>to Rock = win

[DennisGlowacki]

Adam! Epic.
This is my first day here and I have learned so much. Thank you and your walls of text. And everyone who has provided great info on this thread.

Question: With all the duplicate meshes used, does that automatically count as "instanced geometry" or is there a button/technique that needs to be pressed/used?