Fancy collar girl

[Zwebbie]

I know I'm supposed to be working on my fancy hat guy, but I bought Mirror's Edge just a while ago and wanted to do something with bright colours. I'm going to make a low poly and I'll see if I can get it into UE3 - should be a good experience.

So here's a work-in-progress of the high poly, and a paintover. I've been trying to create some interesting proportions. The design isn't final yet; it's just a quick mockup of elements that I thought were nice. Does it need more asymetry?

http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirl.jpghttp://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirlPaintover.jpg

[pior]

That's actually very cool! Can't wait to see where you will be taking this.
You might need to give the skull a bit more structure (bit too round atm) but yeah I like where this is going!!!

[Vailias]

heh my first thought was "oooh someone's been studying pior". :)
This could go interesting places.

[renderhjs]

she has gigantic legs and arms, proportions are everywhere off and even if its intended I think it looks bad atm. Shift some stuff and make at least her arms more slim or less fatty.

[LoTekK]

Aaaaaah, love this! The style you've got going on in the face is great. I disagree about the limbs being too fat, they just need a bit more definition and shape (legs, in particular).

Also, what Vailias said. :p

[renderhjs]

she is fat
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3324/fattygirl.jpg

[pior]

So what!

[DoomiVox]

I dig the hell out of it.
The proportions are great and she looks like a human being as oppossed to the cookie cutter, anorexic, 11 head tall crimes against human proportion females I'm used to seeing produced.
Has a sort of R.Mika from street fighter alpha feel to it as well.
My only critisism would be the back of the head but, it doesnt really matter if you already know how you're going to model the hair (unless she's going to be in situations were she can get buzz cuts??)
I'm very interested to see the lowpoly and so on.

[Master_v12]

I say shes not fat enough!!!

I understand where Render is coming from because if you focus on her torso, her limbs don't really make sense., her torso does not seem to fit the weight of her arms and legs because she is a little thick. Maybe a little more chest and a less refined waist line will make her grow into her arms and legs. yah!

needs more double chin...

jk...

Keep it up!

[killingpeople]

I think she looks cool. I like her 'fatness', wrong proportions, and round head.

[CheeseOnToast]

+1 for the chunky girl. Great colours too.

[Nizza_waaarg]

gotta second kp there (i think? :P)... nothing wrong with a little fatness but the head seems kinda small and is throwing off teh proportions in places i think... hence why i like render's paintover.

really cool style tho zwebbie, liek where it's heading (hope the final head texture looks like that too, polypaint style?)

[achillesian]

more to luv

[Tully]

Agreed with Pior -- keep current proportions. It's neat, and different!

I might suggest a teeny bit more detail to increase the verisimilitude on the outfit. Right now it looks like that stuff was painted on her (which I know it was, but go with me on this!) -- if you added things like seams, velcro bits on the shoes, it'll give a person a lot more to look at.

For my part, seams like those in high-tech swimsuits might work really nicely -- something subtle that doesn't break up the surface, but just adds to it. A seam especially around the edges of the garment that's perhaps a touch raised and shinier. Adds the potential for interest in the specular and makes it a bit more interesting to look at. Or something to that effect, anyway.
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~nscentral/news/2008/feb/img/lzrracer.jpg
http://www.theswimaids.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/speedo_womens_suits.jpg

For the shoes, maybe a bit more detail to suggest some construction to them. Nothing that drastically changes the impression you've got in the drawing, but gives it a bit more oomph and interest. Perhaps being constructed of one or two different materials, as with leather, metal and canvas(?) in this shoe.
http://www.gucci-shoes.cc/images/Gucci%20Velcro%20Shoes/Gucci%20White%20Leather%20Side%20Velcro%20Shoes.jp g

Maybe also a side or back zipper to suggest how she's got herself into such a tight top. I can imagine a silvery zipper on this being a great detail to look at.
http://www.stylebyme.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/white-dress-picture.png

One of my favourite things to do as well is a seam that has a thread that contrasts with the colour of the fabric. You'll find this often IRL in track pants, underwear and dark coloured jeans. It often has to be exaggerated a bit in the model to be visible, but it's usually a nice detail that shows you're thinking. OR, for something similar, piping around a seam (also found often in track pants)
http://catalog.sears.ca/wcsstore/MasterCatalog/images/catalog/24/86/333024860_1_244.jpg

Anyways, just some ideas :) They're little things, but all added up they can make a big difference. It's looking cool, so keep workin!

[Shiraz]

Aslong as he keeps the fashion style he has going atm ill be happy :)

[vcortis]

Proportions are wicked off even for a stylized character it just looks weird. Don't care if you keep her chunky but her torso needs to reflect that too. Her limbs are giganto but her torso is short and skinny. Doesn't seem human.

I like it overall with the style/face, just proportions ned some work.

[NyneDown]

I dig! Very stylized stuff man. I personally love the fact that she's got a little more meat on her bones. If you made her thin, she'd just be another skinny CG chick...and that would be insanely normal.

[Zwebbie]

Thank you very much, guys and gal. I sort of expected two replies, with one being a joke about an orange breast, but instead I've gotten useful criticisms!

@pior: Thanks. I didn't even consider the skull, it did look a bit off, so it's been changed now.

@Vailias: Ha, indeed, you got me. Pior and Slipgatecentral (http://slipgatecentral.deviantart.com/art/felicia-wip01-137545442?moodonly=24). Not as original as supposed to, but if you've gotta learn, learn from the best, right ;) ?

@renderhjs: It's wholly intended. I understand that it might not work entirely well, since I'm still learning and just can't pull it off as well as veteran artists, but thick limbs are what I'm going for. I've been almost obsessive in creating 'realistic' proportions lately and it usually ends in creating characters that are too short in retrospect. So now, I've just thrown realism out the window and made her chunky (or fat, if you will), with a fairly ridiculous spinal curve. Which isn't to say that I'm not thankful for your input and paintover, but slim proportions just defeat the purpose of this model.

@LoTekK: Yup, I was planning on sculpting eventually to add definition. Not sure if I'll still do that, since a quick test turned out to look pretty awful, but some things do have to be defined more, one way or another.

@DoomiVox: Thanks. The hair would cover the back of the head, but you are right, it was out of proportion (for some reason, I always end up making the face very small, so that I have to scale down the skull in the end).

@Master_v12: I think it's the odd pose more than anything; look at the silhouette I'm posting below, I don't think that it looks particularly wrong in either front or side view.

@killingpeople: Thank you :)

@CheeseOnToast: Thank you too. 'Chunky' is the word I've been using too, fat just doesn't sound dynamic or attractive :) .

@Nizza_waaarg: I tried scaling up the head, but it doesn't work as well, IMO; it just makes the torso look disproportionally small. Which it is, I suppose, but it just looked a tad more cartoony. It's ironic, because just a while ago I was criticising your mech pilot gurl for having too small a head :p .

@achillesian: 's about time too after all the small people I've been making...

@Tully: Wow, thank you very much! I tried to apply all of your criticisms (and even tried the shoulder thingies in one of your images that you hadn't even mentioned). I tried to add the seams, but there's not a terribly lot of space for them. The upper garment doesn't actually lend itself very well to seams, because it flows into the skirt. The shoes were just laziness on my part, they were supposed to be detailed. But I was still looking for a unique feature, and those side-velcros work very well in that regard. I tried the coloured seam, but I'm not too sure - there's only one place where I thought it could be decently applied, which is a bit of a shame. Again, thanks :D .

@Shiraz: Heh, it's basically all kinds of weird/ugly stuff like a ruff collar, orange breast (I mean, wtf?) and a starched skirt thrown together with Mirror's Edge's colour scheme :p .

@vcortis: Hmm, I see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's as easy as you make it sound. Making the torso bigger just makes it look very masculine. I think it's the spinal curve that's causing the effect, but that's what makes her unique. In short, I just can't make her more normal while keeping the same style.

@NyneDown: Yup, my thoughts exactly. I've been making insanely normal women for a while now, it's time for something that stands out a bit.



So here's an update. Not a whole lot of change, but the overall detail level has been increased. Is it too much? The clothing style has definitely taking a turn towards the sportive, but I think it works.

http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirlPaintover2.jpg

And a silhouette:

http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirlSilhouette.jpg

[conte]

dude, she's unique.

[Two Listen]

Totally awesome. I love polycount for reasons such as this. You can actually post up a disproportionate chunky girl and get support for it.

That's what its all about man. Having an idea and bringing it to life. If it's what you want, keep it up.

I'd love to see it from a few different angles to get a better feel for it.

[low odor]

awesome work man..I really dig the style

[Crash]

a bit too chunky for my taste, but really cool nonetheless.

[MartinH]

this lady is standing out from the rest..in a good way!

i dig it

[Holi]

plz, give her a smile...

[achillesian]

a bit too chunky for my taste, but really cool nonetheless.

SHE HAS A GREAT PERSONALITY

[Zpanzer]

SHE HAS A GREAT PERSONALITY

omg, I almost felt out of my chair laughing so hard.

Ontopic, she looks awesome! I was a bit skeptic about the proportions at first, but it seems like you got it all under control! Good job!

[Gallows]

Haha, that made my day. But model looks awesome.

[PixelGoat]

I lub it!

[garriola83]

SHE HAS A GREAT PERSONALITY

shes gotta be funny too....she just HAS to be

[Tully]

Looking really nice, Zwebbie! Only one thing I might think of is the transition between her orange boob and her orange shoulder pad dealie isn't making for quite as nice a shape as it was before -- I like the shoulder pad on the white part, so maybe it's an opportunity for a bit more asymmetry? Dunno :D

[Vonklaus]

personally I don't really like some of the proportion decisions but it definitely stands out as a unique and interesting piece of art!

lol, I don't know if polycount has a post of the year award.... but I nominate achillesian!

[ima]

Good job. Just really hate the proportions; choice of colors and outfit makes up for it though.

[Zwebbie]

Ha, it's wonderful how exotic proportions can cause so much emotion on Polycount :) . Thanks for the replies! Tully, I modeled the shoulder to be be in-between the two styles, which I think works better - thank you.

High poly. I suppose there isn't much more to do. Hair is just a placeholder to get an idea.
http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirl2.jpg

Close-up of the face. I figured a bit of a bigger nose would be fun, since everyone's doing sharp noses.
http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirl3.jpg

[Zwebbie]

I've been fiddling around with UDK and exporting to if for the past week, but it's not working. I'll download a Max trial the day after tomorrow to see if that works.

In the meantime, here's a quick colour mock-up on an AO bake in Marmoset. It's a shame Marmo is such a pain with alphas, or I wouldn't bother with UDK at all.

http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirlInMarmoset.jpg

Oh, and I promise I'll use another angle when I take the next screenshot ;) .

[animax]

Unique character here..Reminds me of Chun Li from Street Fighter somehow.May be the legs?

keep it up!!

[Unleashed]

the concept/paintover reminds me of the gallente from eve-online, love it. cant wait to see how this turns out

[GCMP]

This is great work, the face is really well painted, it looks like an oil paining in a classical style. The proportions are refreshing too, it's nice to see diversity in characters that make them distinctly recognisable :)

awaiting updates :D

[Snefer]

I'm diggin this.

[MightyPea]

I'm liking this! Chunky body and all.

One thing I'd suggest changing though, is the size of her head, and how close it is to the body. Whereas it might be anatomically correct, the collar really confuses matters, and I think a slightly bigger head, slightly higher up, could really help sell this.

[Raider]

i'm a sucker for this art style, so many people didn't like mirror's edge but i though the art was so well done, used to just run around checking it all out instead of playing the game :D

Loving the proportions and textures so far

[zenarion]

I'd say, the hands and feet are pretty big.
Otherwise, i'd hit that so hard that if you would pull me out, you'd be the next king of England.

[Zwebbie]

Thanks for the comments!

@Animax: Yeah, I think it's the legs - which is why they deliberately don't show any muscles, I always disliked how overdefined Chun Li was.

@GCMP: Surely you don't mean the painting of the texture? That's just an AO map from xNormal.

@MightyPea: I think it's worth seeing how she looks with hair first, I've got quite a big haircut planned, so that might make her head look bigger than it does right now.


So I got the model into UDK - finally - but now I just have to find out how to get it to use the full 2048^2 texture and how to set up the alpha channel.

http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirlInUDK4.jpg

[pior]

You know what? It somehow has a Slumberland feel. With the red on the face and chubby proportions. Something to explore, I'd say!!!

[Zwebbie]

Pior: Can't say I'm familiar with that and a Google search didn't show up anything that was particularly remniscient... Could you perhaps elaborate?



I didn't stop working on this, I'm just fighting a hard battles with alphas. It's Marmoset again, because UDK isn't as handy with opacity as I'd hoped and I've found out how to export to Marmoset directly from Blender.
Theoretically, I think I can get it to work if I just duplicate the hair planes in the order that they're mostly likely to be seen - but at 25, that's no easy task. I'm thinking of re-doing it so that I can get by with less than 10, larger planes.
Does anyone have any useful experience with hair? Paul Tosca's link is usually the first to show up, but it's also conveniently rendered in a package that doesn't care about overlapping faces.

http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirlInMarmoset4.jpg

[conte]

nice hair, but i would make her arms thinner

[Ged]

not sure about the hair colour, blends in with the colar/outfit alot. Other than that it looks solid

Q:if this character walked near a wall would the cloth of the dress deform? I guess I just find it hard to imagine how it will work

[MightyPea]

Zwebbie: I believe Pior may be talking about Nemo (in Slumberland) which --amusingly, and tellingly enough-- is what I pointed out with your previous model :D

[swampbug]

Boooo to the "Borg collective" who always wants things toned down, evened out and idealized. I dig her body proportions a lot. Her face actually is most unique, she looks like a person. Not a "Borg" inspired mannequin head. ;P

[nfrrtycmplx]

I'd date her... "date"

The only thing i'd worry about would be her massive crotch and super mega wide hips.

I think her proportions are fine... just the width of her pubis is... wide.

[TeriyakiStyle]

Video game art will *gasp eventually grow up and not cater to 15 year old boys so you guys that are calling for the skinnies better get with it. I for one find this exploration totally refreshing. Nice work!

[Hazardous]

How did i miss this thread, man TOP NOTCH. Love the proportions, and the simplistic / futuristic design. I remember people calling my Amaya model FAT too, cant win these days!

[HonkyPunch]

dig the face, it's different from a lot of things you see, I suppose.
Personally find the proportions to be great, dig the hair, etc.
Good work frand

[nfrrtycmplx]

I think what is calling the most attention is that while the proportions are interesting they aren't anatomically feasible... you can mess around with the proportions all you want... but if you give someone a pelvis from which they could pass a midget, you're going to make most of the people think, "omg, what's wrong with her pelvis" more than "omg, this is so refreshing.

While the design of the character is refreshing, it's not exactly clear what's going on there anatomically.

That's what's getting the negative reactions from folks... I personally think she's cute as a button, just a bit deformed.

[makecg]

Looks cool personally I like renderhjs (http://boards.polycount.net/member.php?u=21020) Fix's better its not that shes fat.. its shes distorted makes it look strange.

[Kylen]

I dig the hell out of it.
The proportions are great and she looks like a human being as oppossed to the cookie cutter, anorexic, 11 head tall crimes against human proportion females I'm used to seeing produced.

You had me loling right there.

[G()5u]

I for one really like her proportions very feminine and almost has a classic 50's pin up feel to it.

[G()5u]

Oops double post :P
Forgot this board orders posts in reverse :P

[Zwebbie]

All right, this took a little longer than expected, so I'm going to reply to things that everyone forgot they said. Thanks for the replies, anyway.

Concerning the proportions (since that's what most people comment on, I might as well answer them in one go): I'm not so much interested in creating an attractive or realistic character. She's more of an experiment, if you will, to see in which direction female stylisation can be taken. It seems to me that men can be stylised into all sorts of shapes, whereas women can be either skinny or skinny with large breasts. Which isn't to say that I'm envisioning myself as a crusader against the bland standards of the industry, I'm just having fun with a more unorthodox approach to female proportions... and considering I try a different style for every model I make, I'd rather go too far than not far enough!


not sure about the hair colour, blends in with the colar/outfit alot.
...
Q:if this character walked near a wall would the cloth of the dress deform?


I tried different hair colours, having the black or orange recurring (see below). The black one seems to work pretty well in the aesthetic sense, but the blonde looks a bit more light-hearted to me.

As for the dress, I'm imagining it to be like the material they make lampshades from, from the waist down. So yes, it bends, but it does stay upright by default. Basically, I like skirts because they're feminine, but I hate rigging them, so this is the compromise ;) .

http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirlInMarmosetHaircom.jpg

Zwebbie: I believe Pior may be talking about Nemo (in Slumberland) which --amusingly, and tellingly enough-- is what I pointed out with your previous model :D
I figured that much - but I honestly can't see the likeness!

I remember people calling my Amaya model FAT too, cant win these days!
I decided to look up that character of yours, but thought at first that you didn't put it in your portfolio or something, since I couldn't find anything that I'd call fat! Those are great proportions by my standards.

---

I can't wait to be done with this. There's not a lot of time put into the texture, but it seems to work.

Here's a pose:

http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirlInMarmosetPose1.jpg

[doeseph]

Video game art will *gasp eventually grow up and not cater to 15 year old boys so you guys that are calling for the skinnies better get with it. I for one find this exploration totally refreshing. Nice work!

Right, because being attracted to a specific body type makes you a 15 year old boy. And insulting people who don't agree with your tastes makes you an adult. I've been so delusional until now.

Zwebbie, you get 100 pts for creating an awesome piece. I honestly don't know what to think about this one. On one hand I think she is far too bulky (not fat) and the costume is a bit irritating, but on the other hand I've never seen a character model done quite like this so I enjoy the originality of it. And it's not that I think the proportions are wrong, she just has no muscle definition. Chun Li has similiar thickness but still manages to be appealing because of the definition. However if you were to add muscle definition you would ruin the style I'm guessing, so I lose :)

Great work!

[Ged]

nice zwebbie, her blonde hair looks alright now that it has a bit of detail in the strands. Cool shoes, her face has a confusing expression. Is she worried or happy? smile says happy, eyebrows say angy, eyes say worried?

[Jackablade]

She's a strange one. Props for trying something different. It's be great to see more people try it. Maybe we need a "characters with odd proportions" competition or some such.

I wonder whether to tie the costume together a bit better you could add a coloured trim to the collar inside and/or outside and perhaps to the hem of the dress. Not sure whether it'd work, but it's something that might be worth a try.

[konstruct]

^what he said

also, maybe adding some large print graphics or logos would add a nice touch- TDR did some nice stuff for wipeout (http://www.lacrampeauxdoigts.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/2009_01_24_designers_republic.gif) and maybe some sort of belt like form? I think some sort of creative buckle would go a looong way.

[Zwebbie]

Jackablade, konstruct: Can't really say I agree, guys. The point of the design was to try to achieve as much memorability as possible with as few elements as possible. Tully's suggestions rounded the design off and made it more plausible, but I think a belt or something of the like would be too much. Mind, though, that I'm driven by trying new stuff, in this case minimalism, and, as with the proportions, I'd rather push it too far than not far enough. So I wouldn't say they're bad suggestions per se, it's just that they're a compromise into more 'standard' designs.
Plus, I'm dead tired of this model and can't wait to just be done with it :p .

---

Here are some poses showing off my lousy rigging. I think I'm just going to put her in the portfolio on of these days and move on.

http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollargirlInMarmosetPose2.jpg
http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollargirlInMarmosetPose3.jpg
http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollargirlInMarmosetPose4.jpg

[Hazardous]

Haha love the ouch sole's man! Shes awesome I like it!!

[Spatz]

I know I'm supposed to be working on my fancy hat guy, but I bought Mirror's Edge just a while ago and wanted to do something with bright colours. I'm going to make a low poly and I'll see if I can get it into UE3 - should be a good experience.

So here's a work-in-progress of the high poly, and a paintover. I've been trying to create some interesting proportions. The design isn't final yet; it's just a quick mockup of elements that I thought were nice. Does it need more asymetry?

http://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirl.jpghttp://www.joeyspijkers.com/misc_img/CollarGirlPaintover.jpg


WOW I love the paintover ...totally inspiring... ME FAN... :)... GREAT!