10 Year Old Kid Wont Pledge to the US

[Tulkamir]

I just saw this kid on the Colbert Report... goddamn awesome! I love that a 10 year old kid can figure this out, but most American's are oblivious. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOcAWn7Rp9s

[snemmy]

The cool kids fake it anyway. ;)

[Jesse Moody]

What a nerdy kid. lol He wants to be a lawyer. Great...

Glad he can figure it out though for himself what adults can't figure out.

[Autocon]

50 bucks says his parents pretty much put him up to it. I doubt he "figured this out himself".

Maybe Arkansas is just behind the times but I was never required to say the pledge of allegiance in elementary school and that was like 15 years ago.

[crazyfingers]

Well this has all the makings of a 50 page thread, we just need someone to make a horribly incensitive comment about homosexuals, the united states, or laywers. No i take that back, f*ck lawyers.

[Dippndots]

gah everyone knows that fag refers to people who ride harleys...

[snemmy]

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/the-terrorists-are-winning.html

[Firebert]

i want that kid's accent! southern lawyer mixed with british... shit's awesome.

[odium]

"I decided I wasn't going to do that the weekend before when I did it..."

Yup, sounds like a future laywer to me.

[Jeremy Lindstrom]

Yeah, this sounds like parents are behind this... stand up and obey your teachers. Don't say it if you don't want not saying it isn't going to change anything in your school. He told the teacher with some malice in his voice... "With all due respect, you can go jump off a bridge." The teacher should of paddled his ass. and they want an apology from the school!! :D

[Malus]

Damn, that kids way smarter than most people I know, I doubt he's been coached.
He's just a bright, somewhat creepy kid. :P

Good on him for having an opinion at that age, I was just trying to touch boob.

Sadly I do think he'll be sitting down for a while though.

[Rhinokey]

well unless someone slips up like baloon boy did, we'll never know if he was put up to it. i rember the day of baloon boy i told my girlfriend i thought the whole thing was a scam but she would not believe that someone would use their children in that way, then the next day it all came out because of some slip ups.


people will in one second use their kids for 5 minutes of fame. but again you can never really know.

[SHEPEIRO]

hahah awsome, never understood pledging anyway to a country anyway.

i think its fucking sad that the kid got teased by his peers for being gay after, kids are like a magnifing glass of society in general as they dont have a cap on whats socially correct to say

[AstroZombie]

That kid is way smart. He may have been influenced by his parents social, political and moral standards (as all kids are), but I don't think he's been coached.

[Jackablade]

Must be a mighty slow news day.

[ZacD]

That kid is way smart. He may have been influenced by his parents social, political and moral standards (as all kids are), but I don't think he's been coached.

Sounds like his parents have gay friends.

[Richard Kain]

This is asinine. Does this child realize what the pledge of allegiance represents? For starters, no one is actually going to force him to say it. The pledge of allegiance is an awknoledgement of a person's citizenship to the United States. Refusing to get off your ass and say it in order to make a political statement is useless. If he wanted to make a genuine statement, he would attempt to get his citizenship revoked.

Of course, if he did that, he would no longer be allowed to attend public school. And at that point he won't have to worry about the peer pressure of reciting the pledge of allegiance.

You could use the exact same logic to attempt to further any political agenda or minority ideology. This is the laziest type of protest, and an obvious bid for attention. What a waste of time.

[achillesian]

facepalm @ 2:00

[ZacD]

This is asinine. Does this child realize what the pledge of allegiance represents? For starters, no one is actually going to force him to say it. The pledge of allegiance is an awknoledgement of a person's citizenship to the United States. Refusing to get off your ass and say it in order to make a political statement is useless. If he wanted to make a genuine statement, he would attempt to get his citizenship revoked.

Of course, if he did that, he would no longer be allowed to attend public school. And at that point he won't have to worry about the peer pressure of reciting the pledge of allegiance.

You could use the exact same logic to attempt to further any political agenda or minority ideology. This is the laziest type of protest, and an obvious bid for attention. What a waste of time.

First off, he's 10,
2nd of all he did stand out of respect, but he didn't say it or place his hand over his heart.
3rd You did have to say it legally until the supreme court decided during WWII that it was unconstitutional to require it.

If he really wanted to make a difference he'd vote, oh wait he's 10. The most he can do is rally voters, and try to get his message out there (which he is doing, getting on cnn and what not).

facepalm @ 2:00

http://i46.tinypic.com/280jg91.jpg (http://i46.tinypic.com/280jg91.jpg)

[Firecracker197]

I think a lot of adults forget how smart kids are, in fact I think kids are a lot smarter before they get to highschool and figure out acting stupid makes them cool. With internet and tv to his access theres plenty of time for him to form this opinion on his own. Most kids are too afraid to stand up to teachers and just do things without thinking about why they are doing them, and they keep doing that throughout their whole lives. Good for him for actually thinking about it and doing what he wanted, even if it might not end up changing anything. He got on cnn at least.

[Richard Kain]

If he really wanted to make a difference he'd vote, oh wait he's 10. The most he can do is rally voters, and try to get his message out there (which he is doing, getting on cnn and what not).

Getting on television is not a laudable aspiration. I've seen some of the people that they show on television these days. No thank you.

And what is his message again? That not everyone gets "liberty and justice?" How does he come to this conclusion? Which minority in particular isn't granted basic civil liberties, or is denied justice? Who isn't being allowed to purchase property, get a fair trial by a jury of their peers, vote in general elections, etc...?

If an Arkansas youth wants to refuse to recite something, that is his right. Perhaps it wasn't his right back before WWII, but he hadn't even been born then. (rendering that bit of trivia moot in the current circumstances) No one is really denying him this right. And I don't really see any other basic rights being violated or ignored.

He would have a more defensible argument saying that he objects to the use of the word "indivisable," since it's use implies that state's don't have the right to secede.

Also, you can't say that children are more intelligent than we give them credit for, and then turn around and excuse this boy's lapse in logic because he's young. It's either one or the other.

[aesir]

ok everyone. Re-read richard kain's posts, but imagine that it's all satire, and suddenly, it becomes good.

[ElysiumGX]

what's a gaywad? :D

Honestly, the kid is doing something I would have never thought to do until much later in childhood. To me, pledge of allegiance was empty and meaningless. I think back now, and wonder why it's such a big deal to have children recite the pledge on a daily basis, before they're taught the actual meaning of a pledge. It's not fully understood to their minds. I do remember in later grades, I simply didn't say the "under God" part.

And overall the kid is right. The US is a clusterfuck of issues, so much that even children can begin to see it behind the empty words.

People go day to day without fully analyzing the meanings of the words they say.

And kids are fucking harsh to anyone who is against the norm. Great job parents.

[ebagg]

Smells like balloon boy to me. But he does have a valid point, as long as people continue to view marriage as strictly man & woman & vote down the needed changes for gay marriage, this won't be equal.

[Keg]

The daily show bit with Mick Foley was awesome.

For American folks: http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/2009/11/20/daily-show-mick-foley-pledges-allegiance-to-10-year-old-gay-rights-advocate/

The rest of us, I'm still searching

[Jeremy Lindstrom]

2nd of all he did stand out of respect, but he didn't say it or place his hand over his heart.



No actually, he refused to stand up showing that lack of respect, which was the whole issue in context of "Taking a stand by sitting down" I'm sure if he would have stood up and not said the pledge and it would have most likely been overlooked by the teacher. His refusal to stand with the rest of his class and lack of respect shown to the teacher is what got the little brat in trouble to begin with... The teacher asked him to stand and he told her with all due respect go jump off a bridge. Little shit needed to get paddled. Plain and simple.

The larger issue is the whole I'm not going to recite the pledge for equal rights is another facet to the story which the media is clinging on too, which is fine but the kid is still a little brat that needs to respect his elders a little more. You can still have your beliefs but for fucks sake show some respect and and lets not put this kid up on a fucking pedestal for gay/lesbian rights because he doesn't respect his elders.

[Richard Kain]

Okay, I watched the whole thing.

And yes, the kid is still a precocious little smart-ass. Yes, he's more intelligent than your average 10-year old. But that certainly doesn't make his point valid. He just has an above-average vocabulary, and a belligerent desire to use it.

If he had actually been thoughtful, he would have waited to pull this particular stunt until his regular teacher returned. Putting a substitute teacher through a controversial publicity stunt is just cruel. And telling his substitute teacher that she could "jump off a bridge" was completely uncalled for. If he was so insistent on his stance, then he should have been more patient, and stuck to his guns.

I'm not saying that the name-calling he has endured is warranted. It should have been expected, this is grade school after all, but it is not warranted.

You'll notice that when asked to actually quantify his decision at the end of the interview, the boy has no answer. He has made a decision based on his exposure to other people and their opinions, but he hasn't actually put any thought into the stance he has taken. I already pointed out this flaw in his logic. Reasoning like his can be used to deny the pledge of allegiance based on any perceived slight. Where does it stop?

[ElysiumGX]

I already pointed out this flaw in his logic. Reasoning like his can be used to deny the pledge of allegiance based on any perceived slight. Where does it stop?

He's 10.

[Cacophony]

ah for fucks sake, hes a little kid man. thoughtfulness at that age is not pissing on the wall next to the urinal. Besides, he's a little nerd child, and probably doesnt have a bunch of buddies. And his belligerent desire to use that massive ten year old lexicon may just make him feel good about himself when other kids just put him down.

Cant wait for the news when he reads about the Waldens, or Clinton, both Arkansas spawn.

[Richard Kain]

He's 10.

An excellent point, and certainly undeniable. But this only raises other questions.

1. Why on earth did this warrent a seven-minute news story on CNN?

2. Who are these homosexual friends he claims to have, and why are they pushing their political ideology on an impressionable 10 year old boy?

3. What kind of example does this set for today's youth?

What we are seeing here is the larval form of Jack Thompson. This is an entitled, self-righteous child who makes decisions without thinking about them, and then wages public campaigns in an effort to further a misguided agenda, and captuer attention. This kind of behaviour should not be encouraged.

[Zack Fowler]

Kid takes a stand on a subject he doesn't understand. This really isn't worth writing extended dialogues over. You can practically see the strings in the video anyway. Dance, my little media darling, dance!

At least it's giving people a moment to think about the pledge itself and what it's supposed to mean rather than taking it for granted as a meaningless memorized series of words.

[Tulkamir]

Hahaha, wow, if I didn't know better I'd say we have a couple of guys on the boards who are jealous that a 10 year old has a higher vocabulary and a greater critical thinking ability than they do.

The idea that this was some kind of conspiracy by his parents is so awesomely silly I don't even get how people are claiming it. That someone actually thinks that they would plan that their son sitting down during the pledge of allegiance because the inevitable end to doing so is getting on CNN is crazy.

Also, for respecting your elders... fuck that. Think for yourselves you retards, that's the kind of idiocy that causes these problems in the first place. This kid was refusing to do the pledge in class, for good reasons, and his teacher was trying to force him. For days. He had every right to tell the bitch where to go and what to do. Blindly following people because they are "elders" is an outdated, moronic viewpoint. Following people because they have earned respect is not, however even then it should not be blindly.

Finally, the kid seems to understand what he's saying well enough to me. Freedom and liberty for all... some people aren't free to marry, or in many states even be public about their sexual preference or who their love is. That is not freedom. Thus, a 10 year old kid has figured out and explained what some adults on these boards still can't. Sad. Very, very, sad guys.

[Jeremy Wright]

This is asinine.

Asinine

Creates repeated indepth, TL;DR posts about the logical/illogical thought processes of a 10 year old.


This kid reminds me of someone else:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwog6E08CFU

IN BEFORE THE LOCK!!

[Kaskad]

itt a 10-year-old kid makes grown men fight

[rolfness]

bunch of arse

the kid that interviewed Snoop dog was way more awesome

[Jeremy Lindstrom]

Hahaha, wow, if I didn't know better I'd say we have a couple of guys on the boards who are jealous that a 10 year old has a higher vocabulary and a greater critical thinking ability than they do.

.....

Also, for respecting your elders... fuck that. Think for yourselves you retards, that's the kind of idiocy that causes these problems in the first place. This kid was refusing to do the pledge in class, for good reasons, and his teacher was trying to force him. For days. He had every right to tell the bitch where to go and what to do. Blindly following people because they are "elders" is an outdated, moronic viewpoint. Following people because they have earned respect is not, however even then it should not be blindly.

...

If my kid is in school I would expect him to respect his teachers, and those around him. He can disagree with the pledge and that's fine just don't say it. But if an adult asks your kid to do something reasonable, you do it. You don't have to make it a big issue. The issue was he didn't show respect to the teacher and then to top it off insulted her. The whole issue of the pledge not being fair to gays/lesbians is secondary fact of the kid not being respectful in the first place.

Way to go, insult those who don't agree with you as well. Jealous and retards... way to label those with views that differ then yours. You'll go far. Your parents must be proud.

[ZacD]

I agree with Tulkamir, your beliefs and values are more important that listening to your elders/authoritative figure. But I can also see how it'd be an issue with a sub-teacher, with him causing disturbances.

[Jeremy Lindstrom]

I agree with Tulkamir, your beliefs and values are more important that listening to your elders/authoritative figure.


Yes and I can agree with that, but asking the kid to stand up during the pledge doesn't affect his beliefs in any way... saying the actual pledge would. Either way the kid is rude and doesn't deserve an apology from the school.

[Zack Fowler]

Tell us how you really feel, Tulkamir.

[acc]

Clearly, anyone who supports gay marraige doesn't know what they're talking about.

Everyone knows gays are just as free as everyone else. They're free to shut up, free to go away, and free to not be allowed to marry. That right there is a whole lot of free. Asking for more free's is just plain rude. They have plenty of free's to begin with!

Allowing gays to marry would infringe on our god given right to prevent gays from marrying. This little gaywad is trying to take away our freedoms!

You know, there was a point in time where people thought black people should not be allowed the same rights as other people. Then, over time, people realized that belief was really fucking stupid and stopped believing it. We also thought women didn't deserve the same rights as men, and then we realized that's really fucking stupid and stopped believing it.

But if Americans are good at anything it's being completely incapable of learning from history, so clearly there is nothing wrong with restricting the rights of gays, and clearly this kid is just a rude and disrespectful punk who doesn't know what he's talking about. Clearly, standing upright is more important than the rights of gay people, because they're gay. If he was sitting down in protest of communism, that would be one thing, but sitting down to support gay people? Disrespectful!

[ElysiumGX]

You know, there was a point in time where people thought black people should not be allowed the same rights as other people. Then, over time, people realized that belief was really fucking stupid and stopped believing it. We also thought women didn't deserve the same rights as men, and then we realized that's really fucking stupid and stopped believing it.

And look where that got us. :D

[Jeremy Lindstrom]

I DEMAND MORE REPARATIONS!! I bet he also spits on the flag on dead soldiers coffins.

[ZacD]

Clearly, standing upright is more important than the rights of gay people, because they're gay. If he was sitting down in protest of communism, that would be one thing, but sitting down to support gay people? Disrespectful!

Maybe if gay people weren't so gay they'd have rights too!

Nice post btw.

[Zack Fowler]

acc: I'm confused, who are you responding to with that?

[Vrav]

It's not support of gay people, that's the thing. It's acknowledging hypocrisy. I got called gay in school (continually) for trying to get some kids to stop fighting one day; it's a completely irrelevant accusation, whether or not I am actually gay. The newscaster here seemed like a dick. He would probably have called the kid gay and snickered about it. Yeah. He's probably in the closet, too.

[poopinmymouth]

Getting on television is not a laudable aspiration. I've seen some of the people that they show on television these days. No thank you.

And what is his message again? That not everyone gets "liberty and justice?" How does he come to this conclusion? Which minority in particular isn't granted basic civil liberties, or is denied justice? Who isn't being allowed to purchase property, get a fair trial by a jury of their peers, vote in general elections, etc...?

If an Arkansas youth wants to refuse to recite something, that is his right. Perhaps it wasn't his right back before WWII, but he hadn't even been born then. (rendering that bit of trivia moot in the current circumstances) No one is really denying him this right. And I don't really see any other basic rights being violated or ignored.

He would have a more defensible argument saying that he objects to the use of the word "indivisable," since it's use implies that state's don't have the right to secede.

Also, you can't say that children are more intelligent than we give them credit for, and then turn around and excuse this boy's lapse in logic because he's young. It's either one or the other.

This kid reminds me of someone else:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwog6E08CFU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwog6E08CFU)

IN BEFORE THE LOCK!!

You don't salute during the National Anthem, which is what this footage is from, and while some people salute during the National Anthem, it's not required like during the pledge.

Seriously, I love (and by that I mean I'm amused by) people's idea that the pledge is something holy. The US is such a fucked up country, why the hell does it deserve mindless brainwashed support and respect by children? Should they salute the idea of the highest imprisonment percentage in the world? How about the foreign wars that are creating untold suffering and deaths without cause or reason. How about the still instituted racism, gender inequality, lack of basic housing, education, and healthcare. Should the salute the crooked government that rewards wall street, fucked up car companies, and health care companies while leaving the citizens high and dry?

I was forced to say the pledge as a kid, and I didn't know better like this kid obviously does. I'm so glad to escape that hellhole, and I'm glad this kid is in the news. It's more newsworthy than Sarah Palin, or her ghost written error riddled book.

[ZacD]

The newscaster here seemed like a dick. He would probably have called the kid gay and snickered about it. Yeah. He's probably in the closet, too.


http://citizenchris.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/08/larrycraiglaughs.jpg

[poopinmymouth]

This is asinine. Does this child realize what the pledge of allegiance represents? For starters, no one is actually going to force him to say it. The pledge of allegiance is an awknoledgement of a person's citizenship to the United States. Refusing to get off your ass and say it in order to make a political statement is useless. If he wanted to make a genuine statement, he would attempt to get his citizenship revoked.

Of course, if he did that, he would no longer be allowed to attend public school. And at that point he won't have to worry about the peer pressure of reciting the pledge of allegiance.

You could use the exact same logic to attempt to further any political agenda or minority ideology. This is the laziest type of protest, and an obvious bid for attention. What a waste of time.

Lol, look how dumb you are.

Getting on television is not a laudable aspiration. I've seen some of the people that they show on television these days. No thank you.

And what is his message again? That not everyone gets "liberty and justice?" How does he come to this conclusion? Which minority in particular isn't granted basic civil liberties, or is denied justice? Who isn't being allowed to purchase property, get a fair trial by a jury of their peers, vote in general elections, etc...?

If an Arkansas youth wants to refuse to recite something, that is his right. Perhaps it wasn't his right back before WWII, but he hadn't even been born then. (rendering that bit of trivia moot in the current circumstances) No one is really denying him this right. And I don't really see any other basic rights being violated or ignored.

He would have a more defensible argument saying that he objects to the use of the word "indivisable," since it's use implies that state's don't have the right to secede.

Also, you can't say that children are more intelligent than we give them credit for, and then turn around and excuse this boy's lapse in logic because he's young. It's either one or the other.

Wow, double dumb. How about the fact that blacks couldn't marry whites and were owned as property for a while in the good ol US of A within this century? How about the fact that gay, lesbian, and bi people cannot marry their preferred gender, which is indeed a right denied them, granted straight couples currently. Marriage is a legal contract in the US that's been hijacked by the church, and it carries legal rights with it that gay couples are currently denied, 1,400 legal rights in some states.

[poopinmymouth]

Also why is it every time we have a thread about civil rights, the people with the absolute DUMBEST, most ignorant viewpoints, have Texas listed as their location?

By the way, it's a rhetorical question. I lived there for 2 years, I know why.

[ZacD]

ROFL, I've heard stories of how close minded Texas is... in general.

[rooster]

By God, if that happened over here and some little squirt refused to pledge loyalty to the Queen we'd beat the stuffing out of him with a yardstick.

[eld]

ironicly enough, same sex marriage is not allowed in the UK either :)

[poopinmymouth]

ironicly enough, same sex marriage is not allowed in the UK either :)

True, but what they do have is much closer to anything in the US.

Germany and Iceland don't have same sex marriage either, but in Iceland it's identical to marriage, and in Germany it's quite close and is currently being challenged in the supreme court equivalent.

[Asherr]

Whatever. I mumbled my way through/said nothing during the Pledge of Allegiance from Kindergarten through 8th grade (no Pledge in high school). Maybe if I had told the teachers to jump off a bridge I could be an anti-authoritarian hero too!

[eld]

what are the main differences between civil unions and marriage?

[CrazyMatt]

I think a lot of adults forget how smart kids are, in fact I think kids are a lot smarter before they get to highschool and figure out acting stupid makes them cool.

Here's something to top that off. I think it should be a granted speech sent for every teacher, student in America, and (maybe) the world to watch at their schools.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY

[poopinmymouth]

In what country?

Big differences in the US.

No joint taxes.
You must pay taxes on healthcare coverage for your partner, whereas straight couples do not.
no hospital visitation rights or ability to make end of life decisions (so often times their estranged parents get to decide, and not their spouse of sometimes 20+ years)
No dual adoption (so if the single parent who did do the legal adoption dies, the child reverts to the state instead of the other parent that helped raise them)
No tax free inheritence of the other's posessions upon death. (if they leave you their house, bam, you owe all the taxes on it as if they gifted it to a stranger. Married couples pay nothing)
No visa/citizenship path for foreign spouses.

There are a lot more, but these are the biggies off the top of my head.

[bgoodsell]

what are the main differences between civil unions and marriage?

The difference between a religious ceremony and a legal binding contract you can get down at the town hall. IIRC, civil unions entitle the members to some of the taxation credentials that married couples get. (Maybe shared insurance, I'm not quite clear how a civil union defines a spouse).

[poopinmymouth]

Keep in mind I can walk down to the local courthouse with 40 dollars and any random woman and marry her right then, no proof of love, commitment, etc, and the court will do it. Now I get a crapload of legal rights through that contract. But I can't go with a partner of 20+ years if they are the same gender. Some of the rights can be granted with a lawyer and a lot of money, but it's a hassle and way more expensive than a marriage contract.

All the idiots that think marriage has always been like it is now should watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tM0Pg_KKV8

Owned.

[eld]

and I'm guessing religious gay partners will be turned down on the church doorstep aswell,


Im not all sure, but since we have same sex marriage in sweden I believe it would all under discrimination to deny same sex marriage in the big ole church.

edit: actually, it was quite recent this year, seems like every major democratic party voted yes, except for.. wait for it...


the christian democratic party.

[Richard Kain]

Lol, look how dumb you are.
Wow, double dumb. How about the fact that blacks couldn't marry whites and were owned as property for a while in the good ol US of A within this century? How about the fact that gay, lesbian, and bi people cannot marry their preferred gender, which is indeed a right denied them, granted straight couples currently. Marriage is a legal contract in the US that's been hijacked by the church, and it carries legal rights with it that gay couples are currently denied, 1,400 legal rights in some states.

Um....wow. Such vitriol. And I don't even live in Texas. (or have it listed as my current location)

Is marriage a basic civil liberty? I'm pretty sure its not. According to the state, it is a social contract, and is determined by state governments and not the federal government. Civil liberties are defined in the Bill of Rights. If its not a civil liberty, then there should be no objection to the phrase "liberty and justice for all."

The 10 year old in question is misinterpreting the pledge. This is an understandable mistake for a 10 year old, even a spoiled, pretentious one. I definitely object to people treating this child as if he is some sort of idealistic revolutionary, just because he agrees with their particular outlook on a "hot" topic.

[poopinmymouth]

and I'm guessing religious gay partners will be turned down on the church doorstep aswell,


Im not all sure, but since we have same sex marriage in sweden I believe it would all under discrimination to deny same sex marriage in the big ole church.

edit: actually, it was quite recent this year, seems like every major democratic party voted yes, except for.. wait for it...


the christian democratic party.

Churches in the US can deny anything they want. They can refuse to marry straight witches, they can refuse to marry interacial couples, etc. Even if tomorrow the supreme court ruled that all gays can marry in any state, churches could still refuse to marry gay couples. Conversely, right now there are several denominations that would LIKE to marry gay couples, and are not allowed to.



You know, there was a point in time where people thought black people should not be allowed the same rights as other people. Then, over time, people realized that belief was really fucking stupid and stopped believing it. We also thought women didn't deserve the same rights as men, and then we realized that's really fucking stupid and stopped believing it.



When did that happen? Racism is still prevalent in the US. the supreme court had to put the racist bigots in their place and escort by armed national guard black students into schools. Civil rights in the US are not granted by popular opinion slowly coming around, nor should it be. The US is a republic, not a democracy, despite most Americans not knowing the difference.

[ZacD]

Um....wow. Such vitriol. And I don't even live in Texas. (or have it listed as my current location)

Is marriage a basic civil liberty? I'm pretty sure its not. According to the state, it is a social contract, and is determined by state governments and not the federal government. Civil liberties are defined in the Bill of Rights. If its not a civil liberty, then there should be no objection to the phrase "liberty and justice for all."

The 10 year old in question is misinterpreting the pledge. This is an understandable mistake for a 10 year old, even a spoiled, pretentious one. I definitely object to people treating this child as if he is some sort of idealistic revolutionary, just because he agrees with their particular outlook on a "hot" topic.

Liberty = being able to choice what you want, gay people can't choice to marry.
Justice = Fairness, is not allowing gays to marry fair?

Marriage is a human right.

[poopinmymouth]

Um....wow. Such vitriol. And I don't even live in Texas. (or have it listed as my current location)

Is marriage a basic civil liberty? I'm pretty sure its not. According to the state, it is a social contract, and is determined by state governments and not the federal government. Civil liberties are defined in the Bill of Rights. If its not a civil liberty, then there should be no objection to the phrase "liberty and justice for all."

The 10 year old in question is misinterpreting the pledge. This is an understandable mistake for a 10 year old, even a spoiled, pretentious one. I definitely object to people treating this child as if he is some sort of idealistic revolutionary, just because he agrees with their particular outlook on a "hot" topic.

This is just too much dumb to address. Just rest assured you're an ignorant homophobe, because you are.

[rooster]

ironicly enough, same sex marriage is not allowed in the UK either :)

hehe, well just so there's no confusion we have no pledge. The idea of a 10 year old pledging allegiance to anything seems kinda bonkers to me

[eld]

well, its only a daily contract, they have to repledge it every morning :)

[oobersli]

i saw the title to this thread and instantly wanted to see how long it'd take poop to let loose the gay rights and anti-american mumbo jumbo.

1+ douche point to poop. :D

anyways, i think its a tad silly how big of a deal this is. I had to say this all the time back in gradeschool. Majority of us never said it or just jumbled random words.

It just shows you how easy it is these days to get on tv by talking about gay rights, immigrants or having 8 kids at once.

[Josh_Singh]

Man that kid was a gaywad.

[ZacD]

Standing up and defending for what your beliefs and values makes you a douche?

I guess Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr were douches, too.

[Justin Meisse]

Zacd is in Kansas, he's a dumb redneck too right, or does that only count for Texas?

You get points for pasting your argument in a relevant thread this time Poop.

[Martin Henriksson]

Giving out douche points for feeling strongly about his own human rights now? Its FACT that gay people are discriminated against.

Personally i think it sounds stupid to recite this pledge every morning or at all for that matter. Atleast let kids become old enough to know what they are saying before pushing it on them.

[BoBo_the_seal]

Also why is it every time we have a thread about civil rights, the people with the absolute DUMBEST, most ignorant viewpoints, have Texas listed as their location?

By the way, it's a rhetorical question. I lived there for 2 years, I know why.

I'm a Texan ... FUCK YEAH!!!

- BoBo

[danshewan]

Even if tomorrow the supreme court ruled that all gays can marry in any state, churches could still refuse to marry gay couples.

And they should be able to, because it's a faith issue, not a civil rights issue. If something directly contravenes the tenets of a church's core beliefs, they shouldn't have to compromise because of pressure from the state, central government or anyone else, even if people disagree with it. If people live in a state (or country) allowing same-sex unions, there are options to do so aside from doing so in a church.

[Martin Henriksson]

But a church should be allowed to wed gay couples if they chose to, im sure there would be enough churches willing to do to it. Most importantly (imo) gay marriage in whatever form it would have should mean equal legal rights as for hetero couples.

[oobersli]

haha, i'm actually from missouri, so i can't be marked as a gaywad hating white prick. Ghandi and MLK never post on this forum, so i don't know if their douches. :)

but I'm pretty sure MLK didn't fight for black rights by labeling all white people fat redneck crackers.

poop... why so much hate? seems you always post so hateful instead of trying to find a happy medium. life is too short to be angry all the time. nothing positive comes out of going so harsh about your views... even if the opposing side throws some nasty shit, the better person usually prevails.

but if it makes you feel better. go ahead and call me a homophobe,redneck and all that other good stuff. I'm going on vacation. :)

[Zack Fowler]

Looks like we need to rename this thread "Gay Marriage RAWR", since the kid is hardly the central point being discussed here now.

The abundance of wild exaggerations and derisive sarcasm isn't really making anyone look good here, either. I don't recall ever hearing of Ghandi or MLK ridiculing or insulting a person they disagreed with, despite how much they had good reason to be upset over.

[Josh_Singh]

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!..... I LOVE THE COCK!!!!!

[ZacD]

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!..... I LOVE THE COCK!!!!!

by the way, this is BoBo. Josh left his machine on when he left work HAHAHAHAHAHA


WIN!

[BoBo_the_seal]

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!..... I LOVE THE COCK!!!!!

HAHAHAHA Josh left his machine on when he left work. I couldn't resist!

- BoBo

[eld]

so homosexuals cant be religious?

a religious church marriage is important for many people.

and what is hindering them is an old fashioned mis-intepretation of the bible.

[Richard Kain]

Standing up and defending for what your beliefs and values makes you a douche?

I guess Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr were douches, too.

Wait a minute. I'm standing up for my beliefs and values. And I'm doing so in a way that causes no harm to anyone. And for my trouble, you call me an idiot and an ignorant homophobe.

How is that fair or just?

[ZacD]

Anyone who is "ignorant" is a bigot!

http://i45.tinypic.com/fegppx.jpg

[Justin Meisse]

These threads never turn out good, I learned that going on 6 years ago, I've matured into a bitter douche bag since then. (J/K I'm mellow like happy cat now)

[killingpeople]

HAHAHAHA Josh left his machine on when he left work. I couldn't resist!

- BoBo

i knew exactly who was responsible for this when i saw it HAHAHA!

[eld]

Anyone who is "ignorant" is a bigot!

http://i45.tinypic.com/fegppx.jpg

it's okay, they get along now

http://societalsickness.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/god-hates-_2.jpg

[ZacD]

it's okay, they get along now



Oh the irony of 2 boys holding hands while wearing those.

[danshewan]

Oh the irony of 2 boys holding hands while wearing those.

Assigning imaginary sexual connotations to an image of two young boys holding hands doesn't make it ironic.

[ZacD]

Your a fun sucker.

[danshewan]

If it weren't so late, I'd 'shop that tee-shirt onto this image in an attempt to lighten the mood of this thread before it gets locked:


http://bollywoodpairs.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/nogyan13095.jpg

[Justin Meisse]

egads, don't throw the word "irony" into this thread, all we need is a "touché" and it will explode!

[ZacD]

I was lazy

http://i45.tinypic.com/2zdnbqd.jpg

Not too bad for less than 8 minutes

[almighty_gir]

Well this has all the makings of a 50 page thread, we just need someone to make a horribly incensitive comment about homosexuals, the united states, or laywers. No i take that back, f*ck lawyers.

the US is full of fucking homos, most lawyers are homos, in fact, i'm surprised you're even able to procreate at all, since all your homo lawyers sue everyone for everything, how have you got money to pay for artificial insemination?!


jk, good on the kid tbh.

[Joopson]

You, uh, spelled "Hetero" wrong.

[Jeremy Lindstrom]

yes yes, this kid is the fucking rosa parks of gay rights. Go get em tiger.

And poop "Go jump off a bridge" with all due respect since looking back over the thread you must be pointing your DUMBEST, most ignorant viewpoints stick at me you apparently didn't read my arguments and jumped on the "HE'S AN ANTIGAY TRAIN!". I have no problems with gays getting equal rights although I have something wrong with a 10 year old kid not doing what a teacher asked when even when he's just standing up and 'NOT' saying the pledge. At 10 years old you do what your asked in school as long as it's reasonable. It's a reasonable assumption 'at 10' to stand up and say the pledge. At least stand up while it's being recited. It's been argued in the past for religious and personal reasons you do not have to say the pledge but for fucks sake respect the teacher enough to stand the fuck up. And then to top it off, tell the teacher to pretty much fuck the right off. That's the point.

You can make it about the gay agenda and complain about your gay rights but don't push that on me because it's not what I've said here. Reread and comprehend. And again, I love how when people disagree with someone else they resort to name calling... retards, dumb, ignorant, homophobes.. etc have all been bandied about today to label someone else that has differing views.. and you yourself are fighting to get rid of labels. Good show sir, good show.

[ZacD]

You, uh, spelled "Hetero" wrong.
It was too long.

[Andreas]

Getting on television is not a laudable aspiration. I've seen some of the people that they show on television these days. No thank you.

And what is his message again? That not everyone gets "liberty and justice?" How does he come to this conclusion? Which minority in particular isn't granted basic civil liberties, or is denied justice? Who isn't being allowed to purchase property, get a fair trial by a jury of their peers, vote in general elections, etc...?

If an Arkansas youth wants to refuse to recite something, that is his right. Perhaps it wasn't his right back before WWII, but he hadn't even been born then. (rendering that bit of trivia moot in the current circumstances) No one is really denying him this right. And I don't really see any other basic rights being violated or ignored.

He would have a more defensible argument saying that he objects to the use of the word "indivisable," since it's use implies that state's don't have the right to secede.

Also, you can't say that children are more intelligent than we give them credit for, and then turn around and excuse this boy's lapse in logic because he's young. It's either one or the other.

Agreed. I really don't see why this is newsworthy.

[John Warner]

pearls before swine.

[Justin Meisse]

It was too long.

That's what.... he said?

[Joopson]

So what, I don't stand for the pledge either. It has NOTHING to do with respect. Admittedly, at 10, you usually don't know all that much about the world, or even that you have the option to not stand. If I had known at that age that I didn't need to stand for the pledge, I wouldn't.

"I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
And to the republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God, indivisible,
with Liberty and Justice for all"

First of all, what is it? Some kind of legal contract so we have to listen to the government? We have the option to not pledge our allegiance to the country, and I always opt out of it.
Second, Our government is most certainly not a republic anymore. It should be, but we drifted to the condemned democracy. So, what exactly does this mean?
Third, I really think we are passed the "Under God" thing, I mean really. Atheists may be a hated group, but we need equality folks. I'm an atheist, and this doesn't offend me, it just irks me.

And of course the Liberty and Justice for all line, which means nothing.


The pledge is a pile of you-know-what, so he has the right to not say it; whether the teachers tells him to or not.

They are called "Unalienable Rights"


Sorry if none of that made sense, I am just a bit put off by Dekard's argument. Because it goes against some of the principles the USA was based on.

Maybe thats just me

[Tulkamir]

And poop "Go jump off a bridge" with all due respect since looking back over the thread you must be pointing your DUMBEST, most ignorant viewpoints stick at me you apparently didn't read my arguments and jumped on the "HE'S AN ANTIGAY TRAIN!". I have no problems with gays getting equal rights although I have something wrong with a 10 year old kid not doing what a teacher asked when even when he's just standing up and 'NOT' saying the pledge. At 10 years old you do what your asked in school as long as it's reasonable. It's a reasonable assumption 'at 10' to stand up and say the pledge. At least stand up while it's being recited. It's been argued in the past for religious and personal reasons you do not have to say the pledge but for fucks sake respect the teacher enough to stand the fuck up. And then to top it off, tell the teacher to pretty much fuck the right off. That's the point.

Just to make the argument that should be obvious to anyone with an iota of sense here, it is absolutely not alright to expect a kid to stand up and recite any sort of pledge against their will. It is not even alright to force a kid to stand up for it, as that is showing support for the pledge being said, which obviously the kid does not.

What that is, is a form of political brain washing. And what that results in, is a bunch of ignorant, brainwashed people.

It is alright for a teacher to ask a kid to recite the alphabet, that does not have any ideological implications. A pledge is different. It is not alright. More people should fight it.

If a teacher asked their students to get up and pledge allegiance to Scientology, or Al Quaida, should that student still blindly listen as you are saying they should? (The answer is "No" if you haven't figured it out yet.)

[Firebert]

touché!
...runs away giggling

[Jeremy Lindstrom]

all he had to do was stand the fuck up and not say the pledge and we wouldn't be sitting here discussing this. :D

At 10 you do what a teacher has asked you to do, I think it's reasonable to think that the kid could have stood up but not say the pledge. When asked to stand, he refused and got sent to the principles. Big whoopdie fucking doo.

What's next? Johnny come up to the board and work out the problem to 4x92.. NO GO JUMP OFF A BRIDGE... GAY RIGHTS RULE!!

Teacher: Oh isn't that cute, Johnny is protesting gay rights in class by not doing what he's reasonably asked to do, I'm all for gay rights too... but that math problem isn't going to do itself.. He was a disruption to the class and deserved to go to the office. It's not a rights issue.

[Joopson]

you apparently didn't read TULKAMIR'S arguments

Edited for effect. Hypocrite.


(In a non-namecalling kind of way, of course. THAT would be mean)

:D

[Jeremy Lindstrom]

sweet more name calling.. :D

[poopinmymouth]

So what, I don't stand for the pledge either. It has NOTHING to do with respect. Admittedly, at 10, you usually don't know all that much about the world, or even that you have the option to not stand. If I had known at that age that I didn't need to stand for the pledge, I wouldn't.

"I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America,
And to the republic for which it stands,
one nation, under God, indivisible,
with Liberty and Justice for all"

First of all, what is it? Some kind of legal contract so we have to listen to the government? We have the option to not pledge our allegiance to the country, and I always opt out of it.
Second, Our government is most certainly not a republic anymore. It should be, but we drifted to the condemned democracy. So, what exactly does this mean?
Third, I really think we are passed the "Under God" thing, I mean really. Atheists may be a hated group, but we need equality folks. I'm an atheist, and this doesn't offend me, it just irks me.

And of course the Liberty and Justice for all line, which means nothing.


The pledge is a pile of you-know-what, so he has the right to not say it; whether the teachers tells him to or not.

They are called "Unalienable Rights"


Sorry if none of that made sense, I am just a bit put off by Dekard's argument. Because it goes against some of the principles the USA was based on.

Maybe thats just me

+1 Well said. The concept of liberty and justice within the US is a joke. Highest percentage of it's population in prison in the world. 750 out of every 100,000 Americans are in prison. In Germany it's 150 per 100k, Iceland 17 per 100k. Even in China using Amnesty Internationals unnofficial highest estimate, it's "only" 650 per 100k. The US is also the only country in the world that imprisons juveniles for life without possibility of parole. 2,500 children will serve their entire life behind bars.

haha, i'm actually from missouri, so i can't be marked as a gaywad hating white prick. Ghandi and MLK never post on this forum, so i don't know if their douches. :)

but I'm pretty sure MLK didn't fight for black rights by labeling all white people fat redneck crackers.

poop... why so much hate? seems you always post so hateful instead of trying to find a happy medium. life is too short to be angry all the time. nothing positive comes out of going so harsh about your views... even if the opposing side throws some nasty shit, the better person usually prevails.

but if it makes you feel better. go ahead and call me a homophobe,redneck and all that other good stuff. I'm going on vacation. :)

Uhhhh, do you think Missouri is a bastion of educated intellectuals? I'm sure there are plenty of homophobes in your state.

And you're right, that wasn't MLK's schtick, that was Malcolm X's, and he arguably did as much for civil rights as MLK did. In fact there has never been a study that proves conclusively that phrase "Honey catches more flies than vinegar" is true. It's mostly just a concept that oppressors use to make their lives easier. They tell the oppressed not to be so uppity because it's harshing their mellow. They will get around to granting other human being's their rights when they fee like it, but in the meantime don't be too upset or it will irritate me, the oppressor.

Oh gee, I wonder where the hate comes from? Could it be being treated like a 2nd class citizen in the country of my birth, or watching my parents face a lack of real healthcare and retirement granted the old folks of all the other 1st world nations because America cares more about the wealth of the top .001% than the social safety nets of it's entire population? could it be that I personally find the fact that 200 people are raped every day in US prisons disgustingly nauseous, that America has the highest wealth inequality, worst education, lowest life expectancy, highest infant mortality, and horrible healthcare among the developed world?

I mean there are plenty of reasons to hate America if you have half a clue. If you're an insulated white boy, you might not know of them, but they're there if you look.

[Jesse Moody]

Ok I'm just locking this for now as it appears to have gotten WAY off target and before it get's too out of hand I would like to clean it up.

Thanks.