Tehran, reTweet from Neil Gaiman

[snemmy]

Just saw this reTweet from Neil Gaiman....

http://twitter.com/persiankiwi


i am hearing that tehran uni has been raided. #Iranelection
13 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/persiankiwi/status/2170381698) from web

unconfirmed but I am hearing that many killed in tehran uni this evening. #Iranelection
10 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/persiankiwi/status/2170414491) from web

tehran is like war zone. it is unbelievable. i have not seen this for 30 years. fires everywhere. shooting, people shouting. #Iranelection
7 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/persiankiwi/status/2170441484) from web

we have no satellite tv, internet is blocked to most sites, no texting at al and very limited mobile phone cover. #Iranelection
6 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/persiankiwi/status/2170452410) from web

tehran university dorm has ben raided and hundreds of students arrested tonight. this is happening now. #Iranelection
4 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/persiankiwi/status/2170475502) from web

tomorrow if army come we will greet them with roses. #Iranelection
3 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/persiankiwi/status/2170492935) from web I am speechless... :(

[Target_Renegade]

That doesn't sound good, free unfettered elections are a doubt. Students get the punishment because they are more clued up. Not good.

[bounchfx]

wait wtf is happening?

[rolfness]

christ thats awful..

[snemmy]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/14/videos.iran/index.html

[00Zero]

the government is trying to stop free elections. thats what

[ericdigital]

This doesn't make me hate twitter any less

but regardless that seems unreal.

[ae.]

coming from iran myself this shit is messed up. hope the protesters can make a difference in a peaceful way.

[Valandar]

Too late for a "peaceful way", ae.

[snemmy]

It's unreal... looking at CNN and youtube videos... hearing of the mass media and communication blackouts... watching a video of the winner dodging the question of the safety of his rival... 'most of the protesters were bused in' bullshite....

I was only vaguely aware of the elections going on prior to seeing Gaiman post on Twitter. I click and then a whirlwind of insanity has opened up...

[Jeremy Wright]

The only thing I can't understand is why they have elections at all. Isn't Ayatollah Komenai the true ruler of Iran?

[snemmy]

http://twitter.com/change_for_iran

[rolfness]

Grand Ayatollah Sanei in Iran has declared Ahmadinejad's presidency illegitimate

hmmmm

[Kaskad]

The only thing I can't understand is why they have elections at all. Isn't Ayatollah Komenai the true ruler of Iran?
It's a weird hybrid system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Iran

[PeterK]

Being Persian myself, I can't help but touch briefly on this subject. I wanted change to revisit Iran; the kind of change that Minister Mosaddeq spoke about in the 40's and 50's.

Regardless of the outcome of this particular election, the youth have shown that the old ways no longer work for them. The next 50 years will tell a tale of Iran's reinvention. Perhaps this change will give a nod to the past as well, and reunite the people with their sense of wonder and progress.

[CastratedWeasel]

After watching videos on youtube and reading reports on CNN im shocked by how the government acts in response to peaceful protests. Theres women being beaten up for no reason by police with batons and vigilantes running around beating anyone who protests.

[ghost-d]

But why would they even have any elections if he was such a cruel ruler as the western media say? Btw. same media that used to belaud bush, insisted that iraq is dangerous and has WMD and other b*llshit that leaded to hundred thousands of civilian victims and still counting. Maybe it´s true what they say now, I don´t know, I don´t live there. But why should anybody believe them now? Why should I give a damn about what they say when they already tried to fool me (without any success) in the past?

And there´s another thing I really don´t understand. I saw a field pick-up from Iran yesterday and the reporter was talking about banned internet pages, sms comunication stopped working during the elections and stuff... I was sitting in the room and one simple thing came to my mind. Pick one word from the group that you think doesn´t befit the others:

- internet
- elections
- sms
- Iran

I bet everyone would pick Iran and according to the report he would be wrong. Well, that´s how they describe the country and that´s what they want us to think. After all they do that with everyone they don´t like and mostly when the country has something that they DO like.

[Kaskad]

Yeah, poor Ahmadinejad, he's so misunderstood. It's all western propaganda. Iran is a glorious progressive nation with legitimate elections!

[oXYnary]

Grand Ayatollah Sanei in Iran has declared Ahmadinejad's presidency illegitimate

hmmmm

Has this been confirmed?

BBC:
The result was quickly endorsed by Ayatollah Khamenei, Iran's supreme leader

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8099501.stm

But then...

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/06/an-ayatollah-dissents.html

So whom is telling the truth?

[Vrav]

Checked out Gaiman's friends and found a link to this article (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/dear_cnn_please_check_twitter_for_news_about_iran. php) which then links to http://memeorandum.com/ - lots of Iran coverage there for anyone looking into the issue...

edit: 14 videos of the riots, protests, violence, people standing up for themselves, bottom of this article:

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/14/video-iranian-thugs-beat-protester-to-death-in-broad-daylight/

[Microneezia]

I hope if another revolution is to form it doest take fundamental religion again to unite the masses into demanding their rights. This time let the right to demand what you think is best, be the only vehicle to change.

[Pope Adam]

Yeah, poor Ahmadinejad, he's so misunderstood. It's all western propaganda. Iran is a glorious progressive nation with legitimate elections!

i wish I could increase the font size to fully express how hard I just ROFL'd


either way, this is the exact same type of reaction I would expect from the US authorities if US citizens attempted anything like this. But US citizens wouldn't because we're too lazy and have cool video games to be playing.

[Tulkamir]

Jesus, I just started hearing about this shit, didn't realize how bad it really is. I really hope that some good comes out of it all... It seems that some change over there is really needed.

Also, I'm really confused as to what Neil Gaiman has to do with this?

nevermind, never used twitter, didn't know what retweet was. :P

[almighty_gir]

here's my view:

if the "global police" of the UN, failed to do anything about Mogabe in Zimbabwe. what hope in fucking hell do they have of doing anything in Iran?

as horrifying, and brutal as things are. all i can think, is that if the people were really, truly, unbearably unhappy, they WILL revolt, and he WILL be overthrown. but until that happens, everyone seems happy to just sit and watch, like it's not their problem.

i know there's nothing i can do, personally, to help. i don't think anyone outside of iran can do anything. but the people IN iran, can do something. so let's hope they do, and let's hope the "world leaders" actually do something about this, instead of just letting it slide, and threatening "sanctions".

[ghost-d]

Kaskad - well, if you want to be funny, read my post again and find something that doesn´t make sense or isn´t thruth, ok? because I can imagine that similar thing you´d say in 2003 if I told you that Iraq doesn´t have WMD (if they did and they were going to use it to attack usa, why wouldn´t they use it for their defence?). I can almost hear you. and now the same scenario is here and suddenly everyone thinks that they know best based on the same misleading information channells AGAIN. If I was supposed to make a picture about MY country based on what EuroParlament and other organizations say, and if I didn´t live here to see what actually happens here, I would think that we lynch hungarians all the time and in a break we check our tanks before an invasion to Hungary.

almighty_gir - everyone knows that there´s only one country in the "world leaders" team, but why do you think that they should make the decision again? haven´t they been wrong about iraq? a little mistake that INCIDENTALLY brought them oil (it was an honest mistake, really, actually bush came here and he was trying to stay cool, but I swear you could almost see the tears in his eyes saying "why, why didn´t anybody tell me that this can bring us some profit? nobody´s gonna me believe that I was doing it to help the people NOW!!")... why do you think that the same "world leaders" should be deciding again after all the things they´ve done? or is everything forgotten already? I think you were right in one of your points - if the people were really unhappy, they will revolt. there´s nothing you (or me) can do about it. unless you´d go there, check it what it really is like in there and then you can help it from inside.

At the end just one thing: I heard that Ahmadinejad has a lot of fans/voters in villages, and he isn´t that popular in the cities. Now here´s a crazy idea... what if there´s a lot more villagers that do like Ahmadinejad and they´re happy about it, and there´s just couple hundreds of people from the city that don´t like him? Do you think that TV would go around villages showing you people that are doing their everyday things like working, playing with kids maybe... or do you think that couple of protesting people would be a bit better for the showtime? Hard decision there alright... and now another thing. The principles of democracy is that minority of people (by that I mean people who voted for the candidate that didn´t win the elections) has to "adapt", take the loss and wait for another elections. I just want to say that after every elections anywhere in the world, there´s minority of people not satisfied with the elections, but that doesn´t mean that the result of the elections should change, does it? because if you changed it based on protest of a few, the democracy of the elections would be ruined, right?

[AstroZombie]

This seems like good news:

Iran supreme leader orders probe of election fraud (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_iran_election)

[Jeremy Wright]

Again, what does it matter at all, if the Ayatollah is the "Supreme Leader" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei)? The president of Iran looks like he has about as much power as Ronald McDonald.

[t4paN]

here's my view:

if the "global police" of the UN, failed to do anything about Mogabe in Zimbabwe. what hope in fucking hell do they have of doing anything in Iran?

as horrifying, and brutal as things are. all i can think, is that if the people were really, truly, unbearably unhappy, they WILL revolt, and he WILL be overthrown. but until that happens, everyone seems happy to just sit and watch, like it's not their problem.

i know there's nothing i can do, personally, to help. i don't think anyone outside of iran can do anything. but the people IN iran, can do something. so let's hope they do, and let's hope the "world leaders" actually do something about this, instead of just letting it slide, and threatening "sanctions".

I'm with this guy.

Sure it's horrible what's happening there, but we can't presume to know what's best for them - if the majority of people really dislike the way things are run in their country, they'll either do something about it or they won't, depending on how much they care.

[Fliff]

I'm sure the army and policing forces really care how much the others care.

[Kaskad]

Kaskad - well, if you want to be funny, read my post again and find something that doesn´t make sense or isn´t thruth, ok? because I can imagine that similar thing you´d say in 2003 if I told you that Iraq doesn´t have WMD (if they did and they were going to use it to attack usa, why wouldn´t they use it for their defence?). I can almost hear you. and now the same scenario is here and suddenly everyone thinks that they know best based on the same misleading information channells AGAIN. If I was supposed to make a picture about MY country based on what EuroParlament and other organizations say, and if I didn´t live here to see what actually happens here, I would think that we lynch hungarians all the time and in a break we check our tanks before an invasion to Hungary.
I did, in fact, read your post before heartlessly mocking it, and I did not find any sense or truth in it, just the same old anti-media stances that have been used to ground countless conspiracy theories and infatuations with backwards wannabe warlords.

[Mark Dygert]

I checked out on Friday thinking it was going to be peaceful and fair. Maybe I was naive but leading up to this it seemed heated but not like it was going to spill over into this. Its sad to read about the events that went down over the weekend.
I'm with this guy.

Sure it's horrible what's happening there, but we can't presume to know what's best for them - if the majority of people really dislike the way things are run in their country, they'll either do something about it or they won't, depending on how much they care.Or how well they are armed. Ideas have their time and place but in a shoot out or beat down they offer very little protection. Hopefully no one will get any crazy ideas that they need to be liberated and open up a 3rd front.

As brutal and ghastly as this has been, hopefully some good will come out of it. I hope at the very least this helps re humanize the Iranian people.

I think blame really falls on the politicians involved that whipped up the public over a puppet election. I was really hoping for peaceful democratic elections not so much that it would affect actual change but that it would prove the people and their government could flow together.


EDIT: Just read the link that AZ posted, looks like there might be some cool heads left.

[t4paN]

Or how well they are armed. Ideas have their time and place but in a shoot out or beat down they offer very little protection. Hopefully no one will get any crazy ideas that they need to be liberated and open up a 3rd front.


Well, unfortunately, sometimes ideas may be all you have and I think that it's very seldom that the people with the ideas are the ones that are armed.

In Greece, 30 years ago we were under a military dictatorship that ended after 7 years, when the military decided it was a good idea to run over the gates (and the people behind them) of a polytechnic school with Tanks. None of the students were armed, a lot of them were killed, but it obviously made the people angry enough to take these bastards down. Although a lot of political adversaries of the regime were put to jail and/or "had accidents", no armed resistance helped end the dictatorship.

So, I'm just saying, sometimes having the ideas is all that's needed. Now, if the Iranian people don't mind their rather obvious junta, they won't revolt, whether they're armed or aren't. Then again, if the government keeps beating students up, maybe people will take a step back and think "wtf is that shit and why are we putting up with it" and that'll be that.

Or, worst came scenario, the USA will protect world freedom once again and serve them some McDemocracy(c) like they did with Iraq. And the bastards won't even pay us royalties >_<

[ghost-d]

I did, in fact, read your post before heartlessly mocking it, and I did not find any sense or truth in it, just the same old anti-media stances that have been used to ground countless conspiracy theories and infatuations with backwards wannabe warlords.

Well, what you think that was "mocking", I see only as empty words without any shred of reasoning. And if you really didn´t find any sense or thruth in there, then I can only be sorry about you. But please do me a favor. When the time comes and everyone will finally know that this and many of the events in the past were just political games to fool people like you, you just stick to your ideals about nice government saving the world and helping the poor people by dropping the bombs on their heads. Thank you.

[Mark Dygert]

A lot of photos from some of the protests.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fhashemi/sets/72157619758530748/show/with/3626907952/

[almighty_gir]

Or how well they are armed. .

really? are you telling me that if your future was a bleak, horrible affair, with public beatings and lack of freedom. that you wouldn't be willing to do anything to change it? even if it meant the possibility of death?

i'd rather die than have my freedom taken away.

[Fliff]

looks like a blast, maybe they will also save the economy with an increased demand for motor cycles.

[kat]

here's my view:

if the "global police" of the UN, failed to do anything about Mogabe in Zimbabwe. what hope in fucking hell do they have of doing anything in Iran?

as horrifying, and brutal as things are. all i can think, is that if the people were really, truly, unbearably unhappy, they WILL revolt, and he WILL be overthrown. but until that happens, everyone seems happy to just sit and watch, like it's not their problem.

i know there's nothing i can do, personally, to help. i don't think anyone outside of iran can do anything. but the people IN iran, can do something. so let's hope they do, and let's hope the "world leaders" actually do something about this, instead of just letting it slide, and threatening "sanctions".Nobody necessarily wants to do anything in the West/EU. If you think about it, a destabilize Iran is one that's not concentrating ATM on its pursuit of its nookleer program. Also don't' forget that Israel is watching this with itchy fingers, all out civil/military coups war could give them the excuse they've been looking for to nook Iran, especially when Israel already considers Iran a serious threat in the region (to Israel) and sadly US policy in the area is looking to back Israel in its actions.

[Rick Stirling]

Did anyone catch John Simpson (BBC) reporting from it? He was in the middle of some of the rioters with a film crew and the Iranian undercover police turned to make them stop - the crowd turned on the cops and chased them away.

[Mark Dygert]

really? are you telling me that if your future was a bleak, horrible affair, with public beatings and lack of freedom. that you wouldn't be willing to do anything to change it? even if it meant the possibility of death?

i'd rather die than have my freedom taken away.
I'm saying if your government decides to shoot at you, shoot back. Make sure that your people have the means to defend their ideas instead of die for them.

I can only make wild guesses as to what life is like in Iran, but if I was in their shoes, I would do everything in my power to change things so the power was in the hands of the people and there was a non-violent way to settle disputes. Ideally that would be brought about by social change and elected political officials working for the interest of the people.

Getting worked up over a puppet position is probably not something I would be willing to get beat or shot over. If the tone changed to open revolt that could actually bring about change, I would be in.

This is a tragedy because the position in question holds very little power.
President of Iran = Press Secretary for the Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Khamenei)

Hope is a great gift to give, but false hope is horribly undermining to any peaceful effort to effect change, as we now see.

[ae.]

I totally agree with Vig, but think that whats going on right now with the revolt against a falsely appointed president shows the Ayatollah that "hey were not gonna just roll over every time you try to screw us over" and shows the people in charge that if they push the iranian people will push back.

I would love to see a shift in power in Iran as My parents had to flee iran for there religious beliefs when i was just a couple months old.

Ive had many of my family tortured, beat up and killed because of the views of the current regime, and would love nothing more for it to be removed!

edit: shots fired at protest

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8101098.stm

[kat]

I'm saying if your government decides to shoot at you, shoot back. Make sure that your people have the means to defend their ideas instead of die for them...This is the reason why the US gov is hellbent on trying get rid of guns and why pretty much every European country got rid of them years ago by taking them out of the hands of private citizens.

[sir-knight]

it's a shame that some the hoodlum element had to start burning things... that really irks me in protesting... how does destruction of other people's property advance your cause? You only anger the people who's property or lives you've just interrupted and they'll be less likely to back your cause.

Destroying government property makes even less sense... that stuff is paid for by taxpayers... so really you're destroying your own stuff.

[Jeremy Wright]

it's a shame that some the hoodlum element had to start burning things... that really irks me in protesting... how does destruction of other people's property advance your cause?

Destroying government property makes even less sense....

What do you suggest they do?

[Rai]

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341bfae553ef011570b4d319970b-800wi

[Kaskad]

This is the reason why the US gov is hellbent on trying get rid of guns and why pretty much every European country got rid of them years ago by taking them out of the hands of private citizens.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/images/abram13.jpg

vs.

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1525/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1525R-88062.jpg

[Mark Dygert]

What do you suggest they do?Not set things on fire... Behave in a respectful way that makes it very clear what their intentions are, that they are peaceful. By doing so it makes it very hard for the government to crack down with force. If they see destruction of property and perceive it as a threat its that much easier for them to start popping shots off into a rioting crowd vs a peaceful demonstration.

[kat]

Hey, if Arni can do it with a pen knife, people should be able to take a out a whole unit of tanks with a 9mm!

Seriously though... you'd be surprised what private citizens in the USA have access to. The military is vastly outnumbered and as we're seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan (and elsewhere), heavy handed military action isn't actually that effective against 'guerrilla' warfare.

[Joseph Silverman]

Hey, if Arni can do it with a pen knife, people should be able to take a out a whole unit of tanks with a 9mm!

Seriously though... you'd be surprised what private citizens in the USA have access to. The military is vastly outnumbered and as we're seeing in Iraq and Afghanistan (and elsewhere), heavy handed military action isn't actually that effective against 'guerrilla' warfare.



That's because guerilla warfare has a different objective. There's no way irregulars could win a conventional victory.

It would be quite probable for a handful of armed civillians to financially and politically cripple america, but there's not going to be any overthrowing the government going on -- just collapsing the nation from the inside out.


that said, the national guard exists to maintain a state militia; if a crazy hellbent on distroying the world dictator were to ever take over, the founding fathers intended the national guard to be what rose up and overthrow them. It's always been an issue of state vs federal, not civillians vs federal.

[t4paN]

That's because guerilla warfare has a different objective. There's no way irregulars could win a conventional victory.

It would be quite probable for a handful of armed civillians to financially and politically cripple america, but there's not going to be any overthrowing the government going on -- just collapsing the nation from the inside out.


that said, the national guard exists to maintain a state militia; if a crazy hellbent on distroying the world dictator were to ever take over, the founding fathers intended the national guard to be what rose up and overthrow them. It's always been an issue of state vs federal, not civillians vs federal.

Or, if a crazy hellbent on destroying the world dictator like Bush (but a bit subtler and smarter) were to take over, he could use the militia to round up his political oposition and have them kill their neighbours who don't view him as a world savior.

[00Zero]

i think people rely on others and government entirely too much. i mean, if shit hits the fan, pack up your guns and family, get in your luxury yacht and go to your nearest tropical paradise island. fortify it, and live there for the rest of your life.

[kat]

Or, if a crazy hellbent on destroying the world dictator like Bush (but a bit subtler and smarter) were to take over, he could use the militia to round up his political oposition and have them kill their neighbours who don't view him as a world savior.There are articles online that report that Obama used the National Guard to round up dissenters during his election campaign - not sure what they did with those they corralled though.

@ SupRore : I don't quite understand what you mean by "conventional victory", surely the purpose of all fighting is to 'win' a war so that the enemy is no longer able to or willing to fight, the methods and techniques to do that aren't exclusive to the use of heavy machinery (as we're seeing in Iraq et-al), right?

Regarding the National Guard, remember it's a modern invention - it's basically tacked on to the Constitution; the founding fathers always maintained the power and preeminence of The People's ability to form their own militias, the 'title' that later spawned the national guard (c1900s) doesn't even make it an exclusive right as the proviso is still there to allow the People to form 'other' Militias for the purpose of protecting the State, especially so now the the National Guard is actually answerable to the President rather than State... for instance, who would protect a State against the wayward use of the National Guard except an armed militia composed of The People?

[Pope Adam]

Kat, exactly what i was thinking!

National guard recieves a monthly check from the fed gov not state gov. they're not gonna answer to anyone else.

the nat guard generals would have to be willing to fight the government in order to then even attempt to convince their troops to do the same, and judging by how many army sheep i met back in my ft. bragg days, they would be hard pressed to fight against their beloved G.W. or any pres. for that matter

[Mark Dygert]

There are articles online that report that Obama used the National Guard to round up dissenters during his election campaign - not sure what they did with those they corralled though.
How does a lone senator from Illinois tell the National Guard to do anything?

[Pope Adam]

With his cool black-dude street cred! Duh!

[kat]

How does a lone senator from Illinois tell the National Guard to do anything?Sorry got my facts mixed up, apologies for that.. Obama 'asked' various states (Missouri in this instance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iStZAbf47FA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Einfowars%2Ecom%2Ftell%2Dth e%2Dtruth%2Dabout%2Dobama%2Din%2Dmissouri%2Dgo%2Dt o%2Djail%2F&feature=player_embedded)) to arrest people allegedly telling 'lies' (dessenting) about his campaign whilst is was going on as part of something called "The Truth Squad". It was never clarified exactly which authorities were part of this.

[Mark Dygert]

ha, well according to that it looks like a group of lawyers out to dispel "swiftboat veterans for truth (http://www.factcheck.org/republican-funded_group_attacks_kerrys_war_record.html)" style political hit jobs.

I don't see any mention of the national guard rounding people up. At most they mention that part of the group is a local sheriff... Big leap from concerned citizens trying to set the record straight and fend off dirty politics than to National Guard rounding up people like the zombie apocalypse was upon us.

[dejawolf]

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1904764,00.html?xid=rss-topstories
times article, 2-3 million demonstrators converged in teheran to protest the government.

[Joseph Silverman]

There are articles online that report that Obama used the National Guard to round up dissenters during his election campaign - not sure what they did with those they corralled though.

@ SupRore : I don't quite understand what you mean by "conventional victory", surely the purpose of all fighting is to 'win' a war so that the enemy is no longer able to or willing to fight, the methods and techniques to do that aren't exclusive to the use of heavy machinery (as we're seeing in Iraq et-al), right?



Unless i';m mistaken a state militia of national guard has to be activated before it's answerable to the federal government, so in a situation where a state wanted to secede or rebel or whatever they could just retain command of them. That may not be the way it works anymore.


And the conventional victory would be capture of the country. No homegrown force is going to take control of america, merely force it into economic and societal decay. America cant afford to fight that kind of war, but that doesn't mean that kind of militia could oust the government.

he could use the militia to round up his political oposition and have them kill their neighbours who don't view him as a world savior.

This is true, but if the majority of people with guns want to help the government, the people don't want a rebellion.

It's not designed to prevent evil or whatever, it's designed to empower the people. If the people want craziness and genocide, they'll get it.

[oXYnary]

Sorry got my facts mixed up, apologies for that.. Obama 'asked' various states (Missouri in this instance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iStZAbf47FA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Einfowars%2Ecom%2Ftell%2Dth e%2Dtruth%2Dabout%2Dobama%2Din%2Dmissouri%2Dgo%2Dt o%2Djail%2F&feature=player_embedded)) to arrest people allegedly telling 'lies' (dessenting) about his campaign whilst is was going on as part of something called "The Truth Squad". It was never clarified exactly which authorities were part of this.

kat, are you a US citizen?

Anyhow. Read more.

“to respond forcefully” to “the incredible distortions that are coming from the Clinton campaign in particular and our desire to set the record straight,

Musta got the National Guard on the former presidents ass.. Huh?
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/22/598186.aspx

There is no evidence, however, that these prosecutors are threatening to use their prosecutorial powers in such a way.

And despite GOP complaints that the mere presence of prosecutors on the "Truth Squad" could intimidate Obama's critics, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and his running mate Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin have used prosecutors on their "Truth Squads" too, prompting no complaints from the GOP at the time.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/attacking-obama.html


BTW, that unverified politically biased rumor did not even belong in this thread. This is about the Irans steering where their country goes.

PS. What about all the arrests at the GOP convention back then? Even for innocent protestors? (Answer off this thread if you do)

[kat]

kat, are you a US citizen?

...stuff...I don't quite follow why you're asking that in a topic where ostensibly Western citizens are discussing the out come of a foreign election in Iran.

The comment made above is not an endorsement for or against any particular party but an example that sprang to mind of an authority using its powers against a populace unlawfully; I'm fully aware of what both parties do with regards to 'detaining' citizens protesters.

I'd also disagree and say that yes, commentary of this nature does belong here as a natural progression of a discussion about un/armed populace being able to defend itself against an overzealous authority, right now for example, YouTube is bursting with heavy handed responses to the Iranian election protests on both sides of the fence.

By the way I have no bias, I regard all politicians with equal contempt, irrespective of party or country allegiances [insert wink icon here].

[ericdigital]

Here is a set of pictures from Boston.com. Really gives a great sense of what is happening.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_disputed_election.html

http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/iranelect_06_15/i03_19377861.jpg

[snemmy]

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/06/16/cyberwar-guide-for-i.html

For those who want to help in some minuscule way, like changing timezone and location to Tehran to slow down the government in finding the bloggers/Tweeters.

Read a lot of bullshit that Iran is doing... Creating false Twitter accounts spreading disinformation, government TV saying the protesters are actually supporters of the re-elected president, election 'experts' saying there is no way that the election was rigged with over 10 million votes for the incumbent, university exams are still on, students being told 'everything is fine'.....

Saw one tweet that Hezbolah is in among the crowd attacking people.. O.O;;

[ae.]

just got this in my facebook inbox from a friend:

"Just 10 minutes ago, I recieved a call from my relatives in Rasht, and they said that they are killing people in masses specially students. I also recieved an email from my friend who is a student in Esfahan and she said the same thing. I feel so helpless. I have emailed UN two times and I want to encourage you to do so as well it only takes 5 minuates or so but it means sooo much!\

We have to do everything we can here and help them!
Please come up with ideas and spread them!

peace and love/Mona''

[Jeremy Wright]

Saw one tweet that Hezbolah is in among the crowd attacking people.. O.O;;

Why does this surprises you?

Man, I hate to be the jaded fucker, but I'm afraid nothing will come of this. The people in power will stamp down hard on the dissenters.

Student protests at Tiananmen Square.

Monks protesting in Mayanmar.

Doesn't mean the protesters should stop, though. No matter how futile one's fight may be, all that matters is you fight for what is right.

[Mark Dygert]

I heard on NPR that they locked down all foreign media to their hotels and offices, no reporting from the streets. They are even starting to kick a few out.

Then I read this morning that they are starting to round up and arrest key people.

http://www.iranhumanrights.org/2009/06/increasingrepression/

Hopefully the protests can stay peaceful on both sides.

[Minos]

Here is a set of pictures from Boston.com. Really gives a great sense of what is happening.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_disputed_election.html

http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/iranelect_06_15/i03_19377861.jpg

jesus christ that's really fucked up

[kat]

I heard on NPR that they locked down all foreign media to their hotels and offices, no reporting from the streets. They are even starting to kick a few out...Glanced at Huffington Post (at-al) yesterday/last night they had the same headline.

[ae.]

The situation in Iran has gotten a lot worse and its really frustrating not being able to do anything.

Ive gone to some rallies in Vancouver and such but there is no way to help the Iranians in Iran because of the clamp on down by the government on foreigners and new agencies.

I hope that all the people that have died during the clashes R.I.P and the people that are still disobeying the fuck face ayatollah are safe and continue there efforts in changing the face of Iran.

[Kaskad]

If anyone's still following persiankiwi, it's getting even more depressing :(

[sir-knight]

It's difficult to do anything about it even if we can rouse our governments. Say the UN goes in and pulls them apart and forces another election... how is the rest of the middle east going to see it?

I don't want to sound racist or anything, but the west is in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

We do something, the middle east will say the west is interfering in their affairs, bastardly westerners fuxing with out shiznat... more hate for the west is created.

We do nothing, we feel bad, the people who are being murdered in the streets feel like the world left them out to dry, more hate for the west is created.

It's a long way from being over, problem is how much info getting out is real on both sides?

I know I saw amateur video of someone coming up on a dead body of a woman protester in the street, so obviously people ARE dying over there, people ARE being arrested, and foreign press ARE being confined or expelled.

[Mark Dygert]

I agree, there is nothing the west can do. Can't use force, can't use diplomacy and we shouldn't try and push a covert agenda. What little has been said by western governments has been labeled as meddling. I can't believe that more US politicians want to play into the propaganda and give them more ammunition.

I'm pretty much convinced we've seen the end of the protests (thanks to the brutal crack down), but a lot of people have been awakened by this inside and out. This could be the beginning of the unraveling. But I think if anyone should be doing the unraveling it should be by the Iranian people themselves. This is their fight if they so choose it to be.

I still blame the people who were handing out false hope like candy at a parade.