3D Print!

[Sectaurs]

I gots a model printed!


Here's a shot of the 3D source - modelled in an evening to try out a printing machine.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2425/3556651049_b76f0640d1.jpg

Here's what got spat out. He's about 5 inches tall. Straight out of the machine, he's little rough around the edges and has an interesting surface quality, but it's solid ABS plastic, which means I can sand it down, paint it, melt it, do whatever the hell i want to... it's plastic. I was pretty pleased that it could handle the noodly arms and legs no problem.

http://sevencubed.net/images/Robot_The_Images/Robit.jpg


Now, a question: I'm starting a business that would provide rapid prototyping, and I don't see why this couldn't include any 3D model you want made real. Would anyone be interested in this sort of thing? This is absolutely a prototype-quality print, but as I said you can class it up as much as you want, limited only to how much effort you're willing to put into it. I can easily get away with charging half of what's currently available on the market, perhaps less - I'm still working out exact pricing.

I figured since I'm going to be abusing the fuck out my machines to make everything I've ever modelled, why not open this up to the community? First step: seeing if there's even any interest.

[ericdigital]

haha cute lil' char. I think there could be a interest and even demand for it if, like you said the price was much lower than normal methods. I think it would be about finding the right price point that made warrenting the extra clean up work involved to be worth it. I know I would at least!

[monkeyboy_garth]

That's awesome. If you were in Australia and I had something worth printing I'd totally do it. I'd love to fill my desk with crazy custom figurines I'd made!

[Valandar]

Dude, if I had a Rapid Prototyper or 3D Printer, not only would my desk be soon COVERED in critters and things, but I'd also be custom-making my own Transformers - or at least TF heads for custom figs. :D

[ae.]

I am working on a high-poly vehicle right now PM with some info how much would you charge and seeing as you dont live in canada how would shipping work?

[Rens]

3d prints, thats sweet yum yum,

i would defenitly be interested

[MoP]

I've got an interest in that - been meaning to get something 3D-printed for a while... just need to make something worth it.
The current prices I've seen on a lot of sites are still a bit steep for my liking (although the price is dropping still), so I'd be very interested in bringing business your way if you could provide quality prints at lower cost :)

[Microneezia]

Im totally interested!

Ive made some miniatures before, but used ultracal-30 for the mold and 2prt rubber for the casting material. I then had to paint the rubber with autobody paint, as a primer before i painted any final color texture onto it.

With abs its pretty much the same I think ya? are you priming it before you paint or can you paint directly?

Thats cool you can do that with abs, its so cheap!

[Vailias]

Hell yes. ... If you can swing reasonable rates I'm redoing some of the Starsiege stuff in high rez.

[oXYnary]

You know, maybe you could hook something up with PC and the Dominance Winners. So that people could come here and buy a 3d printout of the winning one they liked. Where you add a surcharge that is used towards Polycount.

[FAT_CAP]

I would be really interested in this! I've been wanting to get a 3D print done for ages but have never settled on a piece to print because of the high price point.

If the prices were right I would definately get my next model printed out.

[Ged]

sounds like a good idea to me and the quality seems just about good enough even before cleanup. Ive always wanted to try 3D printing but the costs are way to high at the moment. Arent you worried about the work you would have to do if you started getting loads of customers with various demands? it could turn into a proper business with a secretary and paperwork etc haha

[Snowfly]

Best material I've seen for a 3D print out ever. Haven't seen a lot, but everything that I have seen was powder based. Your guy looks like he could take a beating. :D

Yeah I'd be interested in getting something done by you.. I'd be your first Southeast Asian customer if I can get off my lazy ass and model :)

[BradMyers82]

nice test there, thanks for sharing.

YES! Very interested, and I do believe if the price is reasonable there would be a huge demand for this.

[Marnik]

Oh man, if I had a 3d printer I'd have tiny battle axes and swords all over my desk! How much are we talkin here? You may have some business coming out of Pittsburgh =D

[Justin Meisse]

heck yes

[sir-knight]

I wonder how super complex things would work in that machine... you'd probably have to split the model up with gluing joints and piece it back together when you get all the parts.

definitely interested :D

[Parnell]

Count me in!
And you know exactly what I'd print;)
mew?
B

[Slum]

Awesome. I will get something made for sure.

[glib]

I'll just chime in too. Definitely interested, how much?

[Spark]

Sectuars, I would love to have something as well, but know a few companies give some prints free to artists that allow them to use there art for future sales. Maybe you might want to see what can be created ( difficulty of mesh ) and have people post what they might like to have printed, and select a few to help each other out? Just a suggestion, as I know it is some cost to create a print, just not sure on how much.

Spark

P.S: Not trying to get mine for free, I would be happy to pay for a print, just thought it might be something cool to do, like a mini comp or such.

[killingpeople]

hee! noodle armed robot turned out great. pics of the printer plx! penis taaank!

[Sectaurs]

wow, thanks for all the comments. I thought it would be of interest to you guys, but you never know...

I'm testing various, easy ways to sand down the models to get them nice and smooth for a nicer finish. If I can polish them at my end cost-effectively I'd be all for it.


ae - i'm not sure if taking international orders will be complicated or not, but i'm sure we'd be able to work something out :)

oxy - you know, that's a sweet idea. i'd def be down.

microneezia - if you take the model straight out of the machine, you should be able to paint it no problem. if it's a super-smooth sanded work of art, you'll need to either apply an abs primer or rough it up a bit with steel wool. will conduct tests!

sir-knight - no glueing! you can make as complex a piece as you want. interlocking gears, spheres inside of solid spheres, whatever you want

glib - final pricing hasn't been decided yet, but the robot cost less than a video game ;)

spark - you're right, and i was planning on getting you guys to submit a couple models of varying styles, polycount, detail etc. and printing them out for you, free or charge, so you guys can gauge the quality.

positive feedback is positive! i'll keep you guys updated

[Jackablade]

So out of interest, how much are the raw materials for this magical model machine? What are they, for that matter?

[Jesse Moody]

I have a good collection of things I would like to see printed. Sending ya a pm

[Justin Meisse]

glib - final pricing hasn't been decided yet, but the robot cost less than a video game ;)


Wow, you weren't kidding on the competitive pricing, I'm planning on doing some sculpts as gifts, I'll keep you in mind!

[Jay Evans]

Ya I'm always intrested in this stuff. You said you are starting a biz doing this? I assume you have access to a machine? I had similar ideas once apon a time, until i started reseaching the costs of high quality rapid prototyping machines. Crazy money.

[PixelFish]

Neato. That kickstarts a lot of ideas in my head about things I'd want to make with my newly burgeoning 3d skills.

[Xenobond]

custom WAR minis, yes

[BoBo_the_seal]

Yes Please! (http://www.bobotheseal.com/hideme/Penis_tankWIP01.jpg)

[Pedro Amorim]

Yes Please! (http://www.bobotheseal.com/hideme/Penis_tankWIP01.jpg)


FTW!!!

[ericdigital]

hahaha brilliant, everyone should have that on there desk!

[Psyk0]

That'd be sweet, awesome deal for that price...and penis tank is first on the list! lolz

[Cody]

I'm down!

[Holi]

I have a small project who is waiting to be finished and print, but it is way less cool than a penis tank... I'm in!

[NyneDown]

hahaha...If you put the penis tank into mass production, I'll take 3 please! :P

But fo' sh0'...I'm game!

[stoofoo]

gogogogog ian. im into it. talk to me honey bunches! ^T_^_^_^_^

[Microneezia]

sorry for digging this up, but please update! hows this coming?

Also, heres something I was thinking of;

If you have a 3D model or "positive" and maybe you are able to take that, and make a "negative" or mold from it, then the consumer can mass produce my own!

so take the 3D model - and sub-d 2 cubes for top and bottom of a 2 part mold - boolean the positive into the middle of both halfs (crude description as more thought needed to create a mold), Then print those 2 cubes as the mold. add the injection and flow holes, done~! - that would be amazing!

I havent seen this offered with other 3D printers, but I think all of them can easily do it. there has to be a market for this?

I want one anyway. I want more than one.

[Sectaurs]

Micro - glad you're excited! The paperwork is all signed and we're officially an LLC. We've got the machine up and running and printing in glorious 3D.

BUT, we're not quite ready to open the gates. Need to iron out a few things, get the website going, etc. Shouldn't be long now, though. If all goes according to plan, I'll have some cool stuff to show off soon. :) If anyone is planning on hitting the San Diego ComicCon you'll be able to manhandle a print and let us know what you think. Find us at table N1 in the small press section.

Making molds is something we've definitely talked about - the others involved are big into custom vinyls and would love to be able to make short runs of characters [or environments...] That would be a bit down the road, however.

I'll be sure and update when there's news.

[HandSandwich]

YES. DO WANT.

[Jeremy Wright]

I've very interested, if the price is reasonable. I've got no problem with doing my own sanding and painting.

[MoJo]

You're welcome to anything i got to promote your business. I've got high poly models posed and ready to go!

[aesir]

I'd be interested in printing one or all of these guys if the price was alright.

http://artofscottjonsson.com/hunter01.jpg
http://artofscottjonsson.com/hunter02.jpg
http://artofscottjonsson.com/black.jpg

[Sectaurs]

love the horned guy in black.jpg!

if anyone wants an estimate on price, go ahead and send a .stl file to info@robotthecompany.com and we'll get back to you as quickly as possible.

http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/down...nter/zplugins/ - might come in handy.

max dimensions are 6x6x8 inches.

[Justin Meisse]

would minimum wall thickness be similar to shapeways, like 2mm? Basically so we can hollow our model out to reduce the amount of material used thus lowering the price.

Also, what's the max polycount the machine can handle?

[Mark Dygert]

Really cool buddy, really cool!

Micro, there are probably better ways to make a mold then to print the actual negative in 3D. Normally that involves coating your creation is some kind of silicone spray, and surrounding it in some kind of resin or plaster, normally half at a time. Then using that to make stronger negative for casting.

Depending on the material used I think you end up losing a bit of volume and your first print should be larger. At least that's how we did it when I worked At HO Sports and we made molds for water skis, wake boards and snowboards.

[Sectaurs]

Promised these a while ago, but things never go as smoothly as you'd like.

But now I can show off a nice little print we made with lots of high-detail, provided by polycount's very own katzeimsack (a.ka. Manuel Virks). I'm sure some of you will recognize the model.

Again, this is straight out of the machine. We'll be sanding down and cleaning up prints down the line for beauty shots and to show what's easily accomplished, but for now we want to be as transparent as possible and really let you guys see what you would be getting for your money.

Gird your loins for large images:



http://robotthecompany.com/images/Otus/Otus_08.JPG

http://robotthecompany.com/images/Otus/Otus_06.JPG

http://robotthecompany.com/images/Otus/Otus_05.JPG

http://robotthecompany.com/images/Otus/Otus_07.JPG

and I thought I'd throw this one in for kicks. AND AS A CAUTION.
this is what could happen to your beautiful model if it is plagued by STL errors or rat's nests of polys due to decimation algorithms. (btw, I am personally responsible for all errors in this model, not kats)

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1466600/STL%20Tales%20of%20Woe.JPG

that is a large MANS HAND right there. this thing ain't no joke.


Answers to Questions:

Max Polycount: After a lot of trial and error, we've come to the conclusion that you'll want your models at about a million or less. That's not a hard limit, but at the resolution you probably won't need to go higher, anyways.

Max Print Size: A single object being printed cannot exceed 6x6x8 inches. If you absolutely need it larger, cut it into two prints and glue them together.

Min Thickness: Min thickness of material is .03", or .75 mm. half of shapeways :p we can print thinner, but wouldn't feel comfortable shipping it.

Hollow out the Model for Super Saving: No. I'll say that again, you cagey consumers. No. That is not how our machine works, and would end up costing you more. Our program is very good about conserving material where it can and using the bare minimum inside to maintain structural integrity.

How Much (Pricing): I wish I could give you guys a price point that would be easily translatable to whatever you're working on, but for an accurate quote you'll really need to ask us for an estimate, which we will gladly do whenever and on whatever at no charge.

For a quick estimate, we charge $9.30 a cubic inch (~$0.57 per cubic cm) for material used.

Why this isn't 100% accurate for you, the user: Your model is not solid. Our program hollows it out on the inside into a devious honeycomb in order to use as little material as possible. Our machine uses two kinds of material, the ABS Plastic you see and a support material which is later dissolved away.

[aesir]

whoa craziness. Much liking.

[Justin Meisse]

Hollow out the Model for Super Saving: No. I'll say that again, you cagey consumers. No. That is not how our machine works, and would end up costing you more. Our program is very good about conserving material where it can and using the bare minimum inside to maintain structural integrity.

That's great news!

[Muzz]

very cool :O.

[MoP]

Awesome. That owl has turned out pretty nicely.

Can you say how much it would cost to get something of that size / volume printed by you guys?

[jouste]

this looks so super cool. you must keep us updated with the "sanding" pics, i've only ever really seen these in the state it is there.

super job guys!

[Swizzle]

Aw, damn. This shit's rad!

Question: You said above that the maximum size is 6x6x8 inches, but is that just for a large, single object? Can you do exploded models that would be reassembled later, or would it take multiple batches?

[Sectaurs]

Thanks guys!

Mop: updated my post with some answers, including some pricing info.

on this guy, we broke the bank. Chosen for his awesomeness, we gave Manuel no time to make the appropriate changes one would expect when getting something printed, so his cape, pauldrons, every bit of armor is a discrete part and thus completely solid, which = lots of material used. He weighs in at $124

Swizzle: Absolutely! if you don't mind gluing, then neither do we. However, any ball sockets or other fitted/housed mechanical parts would need to be in the same print.

[Swizzle]

Very, very cool.

Can you give an estimate/guesstimate as to how much the owl would've cost had it been fully optimized for this process? If I wanted to print out a bunch of little skinny bits like armor for a character I also printed, but they were all really thin (say, a millimeter or two at the thickest), how might that affect the price? Would it be more efficient to just make the character and armor bits a single solid object so the software can just optimize the whole thing together?

[MoP]

$124? Damn, I thought you were going to say something like $300!
For that price, at that size, it seems like a great deal!

Maximum 6x6x8 inches, you say... does that mean this owl is about as big as you can reasonably go for a single object? If not, what are the dimensions of the owl?

At that price I'd probably want to print something as big as it could possibly go :)

[Marshal Banana]

So how difficult is it going to be to sand all of the tiny details?

[blankslatejoe]

Nice work Ian and Travis--the owl came out beautiful!

[Asthane]

That looks familiar, I don't suppose that's a Dimension doing the printing? Well, no reason it should be, just curious. ABS plastic is ABS plastic I guess no matter how you slice it ;)

<shameless promotion> Anyone in the North Carolina Raleigh/Durham/Cary neighborhood interested in larger prints or doing some casting could do worse than to look up the local TechShop (http://techshopdurham.com/classes#Casting) </shameless promotion>

[Sectaurs]

Swizzle - It's impossible to say for sure without seeing the model. Yes, thin parts seem to take up less material, but a thick part is mostly hollow with a thin shell. It's a trade-off. In order to be done more cheaply, Otus could have been modeled more contiguously, without all the undercuts and inside planes. Right now he's got lots of details that will never be seen - you can pop off his cape and see everything on the back of the armor printed as nicely as the front. But what the price would get down to is impossible to say without an actual model.

Mop - Otus' actual dimensions are 3.41"x 4.54"y 4.01"z, z = up. We can go much bigger, but he's got so much surface area that he'd be more expensive than we wanted our first show pony to be.

and that's an important factor when determining how much material it will eat - surface area can be just as important as volume.

[ChaosEidolon]

nice man!! Just found the thread. Can't wait to see what you guys crank out.

[00Zero]

wow very cool. show us the sanded down version! and then the painted version of course.

this is awesome, I'm gonna model a 6x6x8 box and get it printed. its gonna be so cool.

[MoP]

Thanks for the enlightenment, Sectaurs. This is sounding very interesting indeed... I guess I should try and prep a few models and send them in for a quote :)

Oh, and just for absolute clarity, when you say the owl print "weighs in at $124", does that mean the cost in material to you guys, or the amount you'd charge a client getting that printed?

[Jeremy Wright]

So how difficult is it going to be to sand all of the tiny details?

I've built a few resin and injection plastic models, and if I had to hazard a guess, I would say somewhere between pain in the ass and impossible. Srsly, that would be no picnic. You might could used some sort of self-leveling primer, though.

I'm still psyched to try this out, though!

[[MILES]]

I think that is a fantastic idea. I've been wanting to get something made like this but the current prices are just beyond what I'd be willing to pay, in all good conscience.

[Sectaurs]

Oh, and just for absolute clarity, when you say the owl print "weighs in at $124", does that mean the cost in material to you guys, or the amount you'd charge a client getting that printed?

That is the amount a client would pay for the model.


For sanding something like Otus - yeah, it'd be a bit of a pain in the ass. There are special tools for that sort of thing that will help, but there's a lot of nooks and a lot of crannies. Naturally, your larger flatter shapes will take sanding much easier.

[Jeremy Wright]

For sanding something like Otus - yeah, it'd be a bit of a pain in the ass. There are special tools for that sort of thing that will help, but there's a lot of nooks and a lot of crannies.


These are examples of some files I have for sanding curves and crevices and such:

http://www.micromark.com/5-PIECE-DIAMOND-RIFFLER-SET-FINE-GRIT,7751.html

http://www.toolplanet.com/product/MIT-10-piece-Curved-Needle-File-Set-MIT-6661?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&cvsfa=1799&cvsfe=2&cvsfp=MIT6661

[katzeimsack]

That's soo awesome! and cheap at the same time! I know where i will print lot's of stuff soon :D

[stoofoo]

8====D

[CheeseOnToast]

Hey Sectaurs, best of luck man. We're in the middle of shopping around for a company that can print master models for a wargames company. So far, the most likely one we've found uses the same printer that Games Workshop use which has a 16 micron resolution (that's finer than a human hair). Can you match that level of detail on a miniature roughly 30mm high? I'd love to throw some business to another polycounter, specially at the rates you're charging :D