BIG FAT GREEN KILLAAAAAAAA!!!

[Loraine Howard iii]

Hey everybody I'm back, this is a new model I'm gonna start on. The widely known artist Kekai Kotaki gave me the rights to model one of his throw away concepts. which were not used for Guild Wars. I plan on Knocking this model out in 7 days, I'm really gonna push myself on this model. I learned alot from my balrog model so I think i can make this happen. I thinking about changing the orginal face to the concept cause its to goofy,everything else i will keep. After im done with the modeling part in a week I plan on texturing him too. Guess I can kiss my Social Life goodbye this week.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/Hungry.jpg



Quick block out before z-brush
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/Untiddd-1.jpg

[Jack Daniels]

Looking good so far.

Just thought you might wanna see this:
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=67838&page=3&pp=15&highlight=Kekai+Kotaki

[Loraine Howard iii]

yeah i seen that. I actually got the rights from the artist he told me no one modeled his character, but it's whatever my goal is to make mine better than his.

[woogity]

hey man i think the nose on the build takes away from the cute-factor of the original concept a bit.


-Woog

[Avanthera]

I kinda like the whole 'cute but wants to kill me thing...
but the whole dangerous and deadly style may look awesome too
just waiting around to see what you make of it...

[Slum]

AWESOME!

[Tumerboy]

ya, I agree, stay truer to the concept in regards to the face. He needs to be noseless, and have small beady eyes, and a very dumb, but knowing smirk.

[Loraine Howard iii]

Ok guys I changed the face so its original to the concept, to much pressure:)
I gonna try to get real far with the modeling process today ,so please critics this.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/slimey.jpg

[Tumerboy]

YAY! I like him much better that way.

There's something weird about his love handles/stomach. Everything's too saggy or something.

In the concept, he's got that arch below his boobies, but that's where his ribcage ends, not a roll of skin. I'd try to get that ribcage in there. The dude is big and fat, but still has muscles. And his fat is probably not the old lady saggy type, but the firmer, rounder type.

[Loraine Howard iii]

Ok i fixed some things so far, like the wrinkles in the belly and fixed the face some. I'm trying to put details in the face while keeping the cuteness of the character. Ummm i think the hands are too small? What do ya'll think?
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/slimey2.jpg

[SHEPEIRO]

really like this, but i think the concept with the plain head worked better, i know the temptation with sculpting, but i think it will be so cool to leave all the detail up there to the diff and spec.

also dont like the new jaw, was better without IMO

[Tumerboy]

What he said ^

[Loraine Howard iii]

Hey guys, I changed some things. I added more to the ribcage, I still need to smooth it out more. I was messing around with some fat at the bottom of the belly not sure if I like it? Think I'm gonna keep the wrinkles around the eyes, I think it looks better.Something bout the arms are bothering me, I think his forearms need to be wider or something. what do ya'll think? This model gonna take longer than I thought. Guess I'll take my time till i get it right.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/slimey3.jpg

[Vrav]

I kind of like the saggy skin and wrinkles around the eyes. Almost like he's been hibernating and lost weight; perhaps in the concept, his body is full, causing the skin to stretch as it does in the face.

[Loraine Howard iii]

I'm not gonna finish this by Monday, but i will show my updates soon.

[A.Kincade]

Looking good so far. I really dig the concept.

As for the arms.... while looking at the concept, his arms are a little funky. It seems that he has smaller bicep and deltoid areas, while the forearms are slightly larger and bunches up at the wrists. You kinda have the reverse thing going with the forearms.

As for the hands... They seem slightly too boney for a heavyset character. But like you said you want to do more smoothing and what not.

I like where the heads going. Fits the character well.

Overall I like where its going. Keep up the good work.

[BradMyers82]

Nice so far. I think you should try to stay true to the concept as much as possible except one thing. I don't like how the corpses around his body all look like clones of one another. Make sure when you get to modeling them, that they all look like different people. Good luck, and keep going with this.

[Edit] My advice, don't worry about "knocking this out in 7 days". That would be incredible if you could make this model from scratch in that time, but I think its more important to take your time and really give this character some polish. You said you learned a lot from the Balrog character, but in fact if you read the artists comments on that piece, he says its really important to take your time with things. Do keep working hard on this until its finished. Go Go Go!

[Edit] My bad I was thinking Imrod when you said Balrog. You get what I mean though I'm sure, sorry for any confusion.

[Loraine Howard iii]

sorry folks I took a vacation to atl. Here's a update tell me what you think. His arms are tricky, I'm kinda confused on them, i need to make his hands bigger.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/q.jpg

[A.Kincade]

Vacation is always fun. :) Hope the it went well.

As for the update... I think the forearms are looking better. Not sure what to tell you about the hands. Can't really tell too much from the concept. Maybe try making them bigger and see how it feels.

I like what you added to the back. Although the back of the thighs seem odd imo. Not really sure. Yeah he's definitely an awkwardly built SOB.

Anyways... welcome back and keep up the good work.

[Loraine Howard iii]

I'm having mad fun messing around with his fat. I really want to exaggerate most of his features like his anatomy in his arms and legs. I'm not perfect with anatomy so I hope most of the details do not look odd, but really after thinking bout it maybe i can get away with some deformation in anatomy on this fat bastard. When i see his legs in the concept they remind me of elephant legs so I'm going for that look. I"m not sure if I'm pulling it off right or not. Oh and i made the hands bigger. I still need to model more detail in the back and sides of this creature and hands.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/299791.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/q2.jpg

[torontoanimator]

looking great so far! i really love that concept ^_^ but your modelling is wonderfull too. The only critique ive got is his stomach kinda looks like a tumor right now...I can understand you want to make him a fat guy, but i definitely think his abdomen needs more definition, thats all :)

[Loraine Howard iii]

Here's another update, I need to stop focusing on the front so much and get some detail to the back and side areas.I like where I'm going with this so far. I'm not sure, but should the legs bend on a fat guy or what, cause i have them straight?

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/q3.jpg

[Avanthera]

wow, this has gone over a lot of changes since my last look, awesome!
Just one thing, the amounts of rolls are just too much, they look wicked, but take away from the original concept. and yeah, bend those legs! not in the t-pose, but when you pose him.


last thing, his stomach does look like a tumor, fat doesnt look like that when it is stretched (like on the front of a stomach) maybe smooth it out and add that detail to the underside? :P

[Loraine Howard iii]

Here's another update, I did more work to the hands and feet. I know I'm not done yet but I'm gonna start putting the accessories on him now so I can get a better feel for the character overall. My version of the character is starting to turn into something more serious but still cute, so far i like what I'm doing.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/q-1.jpg

[StJoris]

Nice concept and nice direction. The shoulders are a bit quirky, way too high up, makes it look weird, relax that like the concept and it will look a lot more like the concept too.

[Tumerboy]

With all due respect (and of course this is just my opinion) but I feel you've lost the essence of the original.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/Hungry.jpghttp://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/q-1.jpg

The original, while having wrinkles all over, is smooth overall, and the wrinkles as I interpret the drawing, are smaller surface wrinkles rather than deep folds. Think more Elephant, and less fat man. While few would debate that Elephants are fat, and wrinkley, they're overall skin is fairly flat, and they have a lot of musculature under their somewhat saggy, wrinkled skin:

http://www.naturephoto-cz.com/photos/sevcik/asian-elephant--elephas-maximus-1.jpg

What I see in your sculpt, are a lot of indentations, bulges, and unnecessary folds that don't make sense with the sense of anatomy I get from the original piece. In the drawing, his arms are big, but, are mostly muscle it seems. In yours, they seem to have lost that sense of muscle, and look like big tubes of fat and cotton.

I'd take a step back, study some anatomy (muscle placement etc.) and then come back with a fresh take on his underlying shapes and overlaying wrinkled skin.

[Ruz]

too many lines. I think you are trying to be too literal with the shapes you are making.

the underlying structure seems to be getting lost

The concept seems to be bordering on the muscular side of fat

[Loraine Howard iii]

Thanks alot Guys, I think you are all right about my decisions on this character. I have a tendency to make things that are not so complicated, complicated. I will probably fall back a couple of hours and study this concept some more and try to somewhat match it to my model more. Cause right now I'm adding unwanted shit to model just to make it look cool. I hate to remodel half of the details but i think it will make it look better and it will be a learning experience. Thanks Guys for pushing me, this is a great website.:)

[Loraine Howard iii]

Sorry guys I got caught up, with sf4,friends,basketball:) But I hit the anatomy books and just study for a while, then I basically did the whole model over cause it was real shitty. I noticed anatomy is one of my weak points so I'm gonna devote more time investigating muscle forms and stuff. This is what I have so far. I'm thinking bout pulling his back out more on the side view so I can make his butt bigger and legs wider,so his legs look more supported for his fat ass. Oh another thing I'm kinda tripping on the anatomy on the leg, I followed the concept anatomy but I'm thinking his knee needs to be wider since he has huge legs. What animal do you guys think I can look at to compare anatomy to his enormous leg? Oh one more thing can you tell me if I'm doing his ribcage right, kinda confused since he is fat but muscular.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/slimeman.jpg


http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/Untitleddd-1.jpg

Here's some of my funny reference. Please enjoy:poly136:
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/reference.jpg

[BradMyers82]

Nice to see you are taking a better approach to this and getting some references as well.
The latest version looks way better than before, but I think you could even go another pass at it minimizing the deep folds as Tumberboy pointed out. Really try to push yourself to make drastic changes to your sculpting, as it can be easy at times to get caught up in detail and not really be changing as much as you should. The forearms for example shouldn't have all those folds and stuff. Keep going man!

[StJoris]

Think you might be looking at the wrong ref there pal. The concept looks like some large leathery-skinned bulky animal, not some overweight humanoid. Guess ref of elephants or the likes could help you a great deal more.

[Loraine Howard iii]

StJoris-I posted up most of my funny reference's, i do have alot of elephant reference as well.

BradMyers82- I hear you, but taking in consideration what you said I cant think of anything else to change beside the forearms. I was trying to go for a more stylistic look but i may change them, we will see.

Do you guys think i need to make the back come out more like in the draw over i did?

[Tumerboy]

I think you need to look less at fat people, and more at strongman/lumberjack types:

http://www.irrigationfestival.com/images/stories/Events/strongman_640.jpg
http://pics.livejournal.com/bullneck/pic/000s9gyr
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3011/2643303832_4a82ab8d68.jpg

These aren't the speedo wearing muscle men like Arnold. While they aren't as apparent, they have a lot of big musculature under their skin/fat. They are more barrel chested, and some have fairly large bellies too.

With all due respect, if you hadn't told me that you'd started over from scratch, I wouldn't have known. It looks very similar to before to me. There is too much definition in his skin, too many wrinkles, the back bone sticking out, etc. I think you may be going down in subdivisions too quickly. Rather than going that far down and working on details, I think you'd benefit from staying up a few levels and working on his overall form more first.

Part of the problem I have with him, is how high his shoulders are. Looking at the original, his shoulders are at roughly the same position as a thin person of the same height, and while he doesn't have much of a neck, that's because his trapezius muscles are huge, and he's got fat filling in the area round his neck. Instead, it seems that you've brought his shoulders up to meet his head, which is kind of throwing the whole thing off for me.

His face is also too detailed imo. You've given him lips, and normal eye sockets. Part of what makes the concept so appealing to me, is how smooth and featureless his face is. It's basically one big blob of a head, with a crack of a smile, and two small indents for eyes. Your version has also exaggerated his smile significantly, which detracts from the creepyness of the original.

Overall I think you need less of this:
http://www.mcflorida.com/images/library/Ronald%20and%20Characters/grimace.gif

and more of this:
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/Hungry.jpg

[Loraine Howard iii]

Quick update- I lowered the shoulders on the right side of the model and left the other side normal. I think the shoulders were originally to high. After looking at the model with the shoulders lowered I think I need to make the belly bigger to make his fat ass seem taller. Oh and i think i may just stick to the concept face instead of adding unwanted detail.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/w.jpg

[BradMyers82]

Better man. I think Tumerboy is spot on with his crits. So like I said before, try to really push yourself to make dramatic changes in the mesh and see what works. Use layers and flip between them to see if your changes are making him better or worse. Don't get caught up in the detail, especially with a stylized character like this.
The sculpt keeps getting better, just keep working on it.

[jam-i-am]

hey Lorain!! hows it been man? Ive been a bit busy anyways i agree with brad don't get caught up in the details so early, work out his weight at a very low level and make sure the forms are their before adding the details (you will get their soon enough) ill do a paint over and post if for you in the mean time.. here is the link to my fat dude, its not perfect I know, look at the earlier post in which I blocked out his forms before i added all the details and such.

I hope that helped.. keep it up your doing good

http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=57012

[Loraine Howard iii]

OK another update, I tried my best to overhaul my sculpting as far as proportions of the creature, tell me what you think. There's a couple of things that I'm not sure before I start adding detail, in the actually concept his legs are far apart adding a gap between them. The way i have them now I think is far as I can go without messing the proportions up, am I wrong? One last thing is the legs, I'm not sure if they should be longer or if I should bend them back a bit.There's still alot of things they need to be done, the hands need to be larger and more detail needs to be in the back and leg area. So far modeling this guy has been a challenge cause I'm not familiar with fat muscular anatomy. If I would of study it before the base mesh I think I would be closer to being finished with the final product by now.:\

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/slimerp.jpg

[Tumerboy]

WAAAAYYYY BETTER!
Now he looks more like himself, and less like the Evil Grimace.

I think you should smooth out his clavicle/neck/sternum area a bit. The concept makes me think he's just got a bit of a shelf over his clavicle and that's about it.

I also think the shoulders still need to come down a bit, and get beefed up some too. Check it:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3472115241_ce1e1525c9_o.jpg

After that, I think you should leave his head/torso alone for a bit, and retouch his extremities.
His forearms and hands are REALLY big in your model already, and you're talking about making them bigger. I don't think they need to be bigger at all, I think they need to be more compact, but stubbier.

Think more like chubby baby hands (only with tough old leathery skin over them)
http://www.marchforlifeiv.com/root/Site%20Photos/baby-hand.jpg
but with stubbier, Clubbed fingers:
http://chinese.eurekalert.org/00/featured/images/20080527.ScienceNOW.lg.jpg

On the legs, check out some more anatomy ref to see how the muscles actually wrap around humanoid legs, and interact with the patella. I think your exaggeration of the toenails (making them even more elephanty) is drawing the eye to his feet, which isn't necessarily what you want, and is kind of making him look off balance.

I shouldn't have to say it, but i feel like I've been telling you what to do on your model, so keep in mind, this is all just my opinion, and you should feel free to tell me to fuck off at any point, and do what you want to do.

[Loraine Howard iii]

OK guys here's another update i beefed him up some more. Oh i made a new portfolio thread check it out and tell me what you think:)
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?p=936985#post936985

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/slimerp2.jpg

[Loraine Howard iii]

Hey guys been a while heres another update. I really see what everybody was talking about as far as maintaining the form. I think I'm coming along really well as far as the front of the body, need to focus on the side more and add detail to the back. I think Keeping this model as simple as possible and focusing on the alphas I use will make this model great.Oh another thing does anybody have a problem with the large gap not evident in my model compared to the concept. Please Comment if you see anything wrong please.:)

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/peg.jpg

[Loraine Howard iii]

after posting the new pic up, I realized that the forearms are totally to big i changed them already.:poly127:

[fritz]

i dunno if it's been addressed yet....tried to skim the remarks. however i think the eyes have too much personality. they seem a bit dopey and almost "stoner"-like. the cool thing about the eyes in the concept is that there is a lot of mystery to them....and they are shaped much differently.

[Loraine Howard iii]

another update , i was messing around with different alphas

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/Untitled-7.jpg

[Loraine Howard iii]

Another update, I Feel like I'm basically done with the model beside adding a alpha texture to him and couple minor things. One thing I'm not sure about in the concept his legs have a huge gap between um. I think the anatomy is wrong in that pic, and it does not translate well in 3d...correct me if I'm wrong. Beside that I'm bout to add all the accessories now. Please critic:poly124:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/Hungry.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/2copy-1.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/4.jpg

[oobersli]

still think he seems to have too much of a belly sticking out. ya can still make him look fat but maybe reduce to horizontal bulge a bit. it just looks awkward and breaks the flow from head to toe.

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq332/oobersli/fatfk.jpg

[Loraine Howard iii]

oobersli- I'm not sure 5 bodies will wrap around his belly if i make his belly that small. Im gonna keep him the way i have em.

[SHEPEIRO]

loving the latest head, much cuter in a gooonies style way

[A.Kincade]

Nice dude! Making some great progress with this fella. I like the scar work across the chest.

I must be frickin blind man. I totally didn't see/ notice the bodies hanging from him. That is awesome. I think you will definitely want some girth if they're hangin from him like that (although a half body).

Good work man. Keep up the good work. Lookin sweet.

[Joseph Silverman]

His belly is way, wayyyy too far forward. It's massively defying gravity and makes him look pregnant with octoplets. Pull it back to a reasonable level (see strongmen above) the bodies fit because of his WIDTH, look at your reference!

Details are getting much, much tighter though, and i dig the new head.

[kukk]

http://www.baldocomics.com/images/popeye0923061.jpg

What I want to say is that I think it would look more brutal with the arms on the original concept ;)

[Loraine Howard iii]

I been busy trying to figure out how to retopologize this bastard, i finally figured it out. I pushed the belly back a lot. I'm not sure if the bodies on him make his belly even bigger, may have to push the belly back even more. Making sure all the bodies look different gonna be a bitch.:poly127: I have interview with turner next week, need to get em done.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/Untitled-1-6.jpg

[konstruct]

pretty rad- biggest beef is the bodies don't really look dead. I mean, yeah they are chooped up torso`s, but I`d imagine them more limp- mainly the heads flopped forward.

[Loraine Howard iii]

I plan on making the bodies look more dead, just have to get there.

[Loraine Howard iii]

another update before i go to sleep!!!!! I not sure if I should put helmets on everyone or what. I actually been working on the body on the left side, I'm adding burn marks,scars and etc to all the bodies to breakup the flow. The guy in the middle is the general so i may add some more stuff to him.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/ZBrushDocument-2.jpg

[SHEPEIRO]

this is getting fecking hot

[Cody]

Hell YA! Monumental improvements, you should be very proud. can't wait to see the texturing start.

[Loraine Howard iii]

:)thanks for the comments guys.:)

[whats_true]

Some serious kankels going on hehe. I love his smile. So cheery.

[BradMyers82]

Looking good man! The helmets are a good idea, so its hard to tell that the characters are clones of each other (it covers it up, and you can save on texture space by overlaying the uvs). My only crit atm is I think the abdominal and oblique area looks too defined on the corpses to me.

Nevertheless, this is certainly looking a lot cooler now though, well done.

[Vrav]

This looks awesome. You're going to give them the nordic blonde hair, right? In my opinion, that enhanced the innocence of the original concept in an interesting way - that is, instead of decorating its belt with bodies for the fun of it, it's because of their bright ornamental value. The helmets are a nice variation, I like them too.

Total agreement with Brad on the abs.

[Loraine Howard iii]

Hey everyone, think I'm done with this bastard. I know there are small things I can fix on him but I need to have this done and ready for a job I'm trying to get. I'll pose him prob, Please forgive my white background I just threw this together.Critic this Please!!!!!

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/6.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/final2.jpg

[whats_true]

White background.....really?

The flesh could look like its decaying more and the General in the middle could look a bit more like a General to me. Smashing job over all though!

[Loraine Howard iii]

whats_true-I just threw this together sorry for the white background....hahahahhaah. I may do little bit more detail to the bodies. Does any body know a good alpha to fake body corrosion?

[408]

Cool work. Definitely interesting but I think the flesh looks stretched a bit tight over this character + corpses.

I tend to think a lot of the muscles and flesh on the corpses would be sagging or hanging more limp. The flesh on the character reads as wrinkled and has creases, but it feels like it should fold more.

If you feel like working on this guy some more, try going to a lower sub d and using the move and magnify tools to try and create a more rolling flesh feel on the character.

Although the corpses all look very similar, after you unwrap them, try stretching/skewing/bending them at slightly different angles and muscle proportions. Maybe create various tears at the abdomens by giving that portion unique uv space and alpha mapping.

Good progress! Good luck!

[Loraine Howard iii]

hey heres a quick pic of his final pose. I will put a final pic of him done up Sunday.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/pose.jpg

[almighty_gir]

the arm muscles on the bodies shouldn't be tensed. muscles are like elastic bands, only tought because they're connected to bones at both ends. when a muscle tears/is cut down the middle, they either go very limp, or they retract back to their connections.

[Loraine Howard iii]

Im done Guys,time to get a job. Thanks for the comments.....Peace:\

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/scar_Hugepolycount.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/rainclev81/Scars_twosheet2.jpg

[Tumerboy]

Done!? COLOR MAN, COLOR! Get a diffuse & spec on there. You've already done so much of the hard work, don't quit part way.

[A.Kincade]

Hey man. This turned out pretty dope. I agree with Tumber in the fact that seeing how long you've spent on this would be almost a shame for you not to texture it. But then again, you've been working on this for a long time and I can see why you'd wanna be done with it. It turned out great as is anyways.

Few crits.... scars? Name could be spiced up a tad imo. Tubs McKenzie or something. :poly121:

Maybe have a little geometry inside the mouth. Very distracting to see through to other side of mesh imo.

I dig the new logo you got going.

Best of luck with the job search. You should not have too much of a prob finding something.