max skinning problems

[kite212]

ok so my prob is, i had to scale a character down, to avoid rebuilding my biped i used the rescale world utility, that was all good, but when i go to load the ENV i saved out it is treating the smaller biped as the large one, is there a way around this, or am i going to have to reskin it???

[Rob Galanakis]

Save out the .env file, delete the skin modifier, scale the mesh, reset xform and collapse, reapply a new skin modifier, and load the env file. That has always worked for me.

[Neox]

env never really worked for me, try skin or die, it saves all the weights not the envelopes

[Rob Galanakis]

env never really worked for me, try skin or die, it saves all the weights not the envelopes

Env files save vertex weights if the vertices have been baked/adjusted by hand. For verts that are just 'enveloped' and haven't been adjusted by hand, their vert weight is not saved out (it is, on the target mesh, affected by envelopes again). The bone envelopes are also saved and loaded but this is mostly useless for games. If you are having problems transferring vert weights, it is because your verts are not baked- either bake them, or you can select your verts, give them some weight to a bone, then remove it- that is like hand-adjusting all of them and will remove envelope influence.

[Neox]

i'm not using envelopes at all, i find it easier to just select a mass of verts and fully skin them onto one bone to rough skin and then go further with doing the blends, and as said it really never worked for my while skin or die always worked without any problems, i'm using it often to get skining from one max version to another, which is really good when a client tells you after doing the work that they use versionXY and they can't open you files \o/

[Rob Galanakis]

Again- .Env files are NOT only for envelopes. They store per-vertex weights if the vertex has been hand-weighted at all. I don't use envelopes either- .env files save vertex weights. I wouldn't be surprised if skin or die uses Max's save and load .env functionality but just wraps it into its interface.

[Neox]

I understood what you were saying, but .env files never really worked for me (sometimes did, my experience doesn't have to be your experience you know) often there where lots of missing vertc etc, thats i why i used "skin or die" which works since max 5 or so, maybe they changed stuff on the .env data and now its better. Anyways it doesn't just save .env files .env files have a totally different structure (the ascii ones not the compiled stuff).

[Kovac]

ENV files are a very touchy breed... like neox it's failed me plenty of times, though I've always been able to resolve it while changing settings while loading it. The most important thing to test if it's loading in like ass is by click Match by Name followed by unchecking Load Vertices By Index. Worked every time with me for both biped and custom rigs.

Edit:
Disclosure: The following method was tested with 3D Studio Max 9 32bit on Windows XP Professional. Any alterations to this setup does not guarantee the same results and the individual posting may not be stabbed or laughed at under any conditions in regards to the above post. ;)

[Rob Galanakis]

I understood what you were saying, but .env files never really worked for me (sometimes did, my experience doesn't have to be your experience you know) often there where lots of missing vertc etc, thats i why i used "skin or die" which works since max 5 or so, maybe they changed stuff on the .env data and now its better. Anyways it doesn't just save .env files .env files have a totally different structure (the ascii ones not the compiled stuff).

I'm telling you why it wasn't working and missing verts.

[kite212]

thanks for all the replies, its still not working, im prolly just going to reskin it cause im already behind on a school proj i dont want to do, dont know if it matters but im running max 2009 creativity extensions 64bit, on vista x64

[perna]

Like Rob says, but even simpler, I used the Height parameter under Figure mode -> Structure.

I'm a complete skinning noob and this worked flawlessly for me every time, so give it a try. I thought scaling rigs was only a problem back in like the quake3 days.

EDIT: Note you still have to do the save and load .env bit.. just so nobody gets all confused. I don't actually scale the mesh though, just the vertex data (use an FFD or something).. if you do that, I don't see how loading env could fail.

[kite212]

yeah i tried using the height param in fig mode, but i couldnt get the biped and the mesh the same scale, so i used rescale world utility on selected only , got that tip form autodesk area, then i reset xform, and applied the env, but it still loads it like its the original height, very weird and i dont get it, so ill prolly just ask my teacher tomorrow who has a degree in rigging for film