id Software's game RAGE rated TEEN Online petition

[armagon9177]

Sup guys, I don't know if this has been pointed out before, and if so I apologize. Id Software is apparently making their next game rated TEEN which is worrysome because their games have always excelled at creating a frightening environment through the use of gore and horror elements in their games.

When I first played DOOM it was this feel, the combat, environment and the weight the violence played in the game to make you feel in a world that is unforgiving and cruel. I love that vibe I get from id Software's games. Yeah DOOM 3 could've been better but to me it was still a good experience.

So now we have id Software apparently doing something special with RAGE. Vehicles finially which is great. Its a new IP and is supposed to be free roaming. It also takes place in a post apocalyptic world. Sounds promising but I got discouraged when I read this...


"We did make the decision that, 'Yeah, the game would probably be a little bit more fun with exploding bodies, but it won't kill us to keep it down at a T rating," - John Carmack


So John Carmack who has done so much for the industry admits the game would be more fun with exploding bodies yet we aren't going to have that? Makes no sense to me.. well it does. It appears that id is trying to appeal to a younger market which reminds me of Star Wars right off the top of my head. I always saw Id Software, Raven Software, and EPIC Games as my go to guys for extreme violence. I liked it that way.

So if you feel that this doesn't make sense as I do and will hurt the game please sign the online petition I created. It will only take you like 20 seconds. I set it up so emails don't show and all that good stuff.

I'd like to hear your thoughts. TES Oblivion was even rated mature. Thats how far id Software is going to have to cut back to get its TEEN rating. I think they will be out of their element and it will suck.

http://www.petitiononline.com/bfg9000/petition.html

If you feel the same way forward this to whoever loves violence in their games. Like to hear your thoughts.


-armagon

[aesir]

It's their game. If they think it'll be fine as Teen, why not. Exploding bodies are hardly intergral to my gaming experience.

[Tulkamir]

I'm with aesir, let them do what they want. Just because they've done one thing in the past doesn't mean they should forever do the same. I'm always happy to see people broaden their horizons.

Of course, it always does suck to see a developer specifically impeding the creative development of a game in order to get a lower rating, it's nessesary at times.

[Joseph Silverman]

lol. I'm making a petition to fight demons in rage one at a time in narrow metal tunnels, because doom 3 was good.

[armagon9177]

I agree. But its the fact that John Carmack said the game would be more fun with exploding bodies that has me scratching my head. Its important to some of us so why not have an option to turn it off? Thats all I'm saying and just bringing it to everyone's attention.

I'm just worried cause the type of game they're making. Kenneth Scott is doing his usual badass mutant zombie creatures and it doesn't fit to me. Sure they can do what they want. And I applaud them for going in a new direction. I just know we are going to get a rocket launcher in this game. Its from Id so yeah definitly and its going to be very odd when they don't explode.

I think you guys mistook my love for violence with not changing anything, so I just wanted to clear that up. But check out the footage if you haven't already and the game just looks like it needs gore in areas. If you look close at the id tech 5 trailer there is a really cool clip of some really twisted.. I'm guessing things that were exposed to nasty radiation that would blend into the DOOM 3 crowd no problem. So for me it just doesn't fit. If they want to go TEEN thats fine but what they've shown doesn't fit IMO and I think that lack of consistancy is going to leave an empty feeling in combat.

[Rick Stirling]

It's their game. An online petition will change nothing.

You may as well create a petition against icebergs.

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
lol. I'm making a petition to fight demons in rage one at a time in narrow metal tunnels, because doom 3 was good.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? I think you're trying to make fun of me. I just didn't want to slam DOOM 3s gameplay alright. So I said it was a good experience. I liked DOOM 3 cause I was into the art. Yeah the close quarters combat with bad AI wasn't for me. Agreed. mixed feeling on that game I guess.

[Asmuel]

Im moderately disappointed. I cant imagine a less appropriate game to rate TEEN. But I'm sure it'll still be a good game without the meat chunks.

[armagon9177]

Interesting.. I'm definitly not getting the response I expected. Maybe you guys are ready for a TEEN game. I don't mean anything negative by that. Just suprised. What happened to everyone who liked gore? Are you all sleeping. Usually petitions do nothing, but for example the griping about Halo 2 brought back the asault rifle.. who knows. The thing took me a whole 2 minutes of my life to get up and going.

[Slum]

Oh come on man... I love gore as much as anybody else (probably more) but less gore is not going to make a less fun game.

Case and point: Call of duty 4. Some of the most intense and awesome combat in an FPS in a while, and they had VERY little blood.

Teen rating means more sales. I'm sure it will be awesome.

[aesir]

I think most of us just dont care about gore. Hell, I dont even like gore. It detracts from the overall experience when gore is everywhere and commonplace. If you are going to have gore, you use it for very very very selective intense experiences in the game. Gore as 'the norm' in a game world bores the shit outta me, and since thats how it is in every semi violent game (including TF2) I've gotten over it. I'd like it if gore got limited a bit more these days, not because Im against it, but because its overdone.

Maybe Carmack knows something we dont. Like that they're gonna start cracking down on M ratings soon and REALLY not selling to teens anymore.

[Uly]

I'm in the same boat, Armagon.

It's ids decision, but it still brings a tear to the eye when a dev known for its fucking awesome gorehaus games decides they're gonna try and appeal to a broader audience. IMO, even if your previous successes were gutmulching bloodshitting nastygrams, but they haven't been hitting the same success they used to, it usually lies in the gameplay end of things. Gears of War (albeit with an expensive, and perfectly executed marketing campaign.) managed to rope in a huge audience, many of course under the M level, just because it was a fucking great game. One of the things that made Gears great was the gore. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Best display of visual feedback in a shooter for a long time to come.

If RAGE were nothing but a kart racer, I'd see the purpose behind it, but paff paff smoke squibs coming out of a guy after being shot point blank with a shotty makes Uly cry. /images/graemlins/frown.gif Might'a been pushed on them by Activision, who knows, in the end though, it really does seem like a short term solution. From what I gathered from the few screens and trailers we've seen, why the fuck is this T rated anyway? Something just isn't right. Short term solution for short term gains. Whether or not your morally uncomfortable with the issue or not, if your game is great, the ESRB rating means shit to sales. Kids will get their hands on the game one way or the other.

And whether or not you say you care about gore, your brain is still subconciously saying, "that was a sweet kill", or "it looks like I pushed him over with air bullets". /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

PS. This is a good mix of opinion and pure, absolutely true fact. (Coz I said so.) Feedback doesn't have to be delivered through gore, even a nice crosshair flash can do it, but when the setting cries for it, you cry if it's not there...

Edit: It's like torture porn movies. Some are shallow, but they're still fucking cool to see! (Depending on the person.) Then you can have a movie that uses it sparingly, or practically never, and it can be way better. But when you have a great movie with gracious amounts of gore, ala Alien? BEST MOVIE EVAR ACHIEVED 200 GAMERPOINTS

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh come on man... I love gore as much as anybody else (probably more) but less gore is not going to make a less fun game.

Case and point: Call of duty 4. Some of the most intense and awesome combat in an FPS in a while, and they had VERY little blood.

Teen rating means more sales. I'm sure it will be awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you guys are missing my point. I'm not saying I'm not buying it or condeming it but take a close look at the game they're actually making. COD4 doesn't have evil mutant things. AND COD 4 was rated M as well. So I guess they have to get rid of that little bit of blood that pops out when you get a head shot which is useful in combat. Its a visual cue. And its awesome. Its just the characters they have in the game shown so far.. I don't see how it won't seem hollow to not be able to splatter those guys.

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the same boat, Armagon.

It's ids decision, but it still brings a tear to the eye when a dev known for its fucking awesome gorehaus games decides they're gonna try and appeal to a broader audience. IMO, even if your previous successes were gutmulching bloodshitting nastygrams, but they haven't been hitting the same success they used to, it usually lies in the gameplay end of things. Gears of War (albeit with an expensive, and perfectly executed marketing campaign.) managed to rope in a huge audience, many of course under the M level, just because it was a fucking great game. One of the things that made Gears great was the gore. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Best display of visual feedback in a shooter for a long time to come.

If RAGE were nothing but a kart racer, I'd see the purpose behind it, but paff paff smoke squibs coming out of a guy after being shot point blank with a shotty makes Uly cry. : ( Might'a been pushed on them by Activision, who knows, in the end though, it really does seem like a short term solution. From what I gathered from the few screens and trailers we've seen, why the fuck is this T rated anyway? Something just isn't right. Short term solution for short term gains. : ( Whether or not your morally uncomfortable with the issue or not, if your game is great, the ESRB rating means shit to sales. Kids will get their hands on the game one way or the other.

And whether or not you say you care about gore, your brain is still subconciously saying, "that was a sweet kill", or "it looks like I pushed him over with air bullets". : (

[/ QUOTE ]

Well put. Thats what I was missing in my reasons was the visual feedback. Its a response to your interaction with these enemies. Its your quick reward for killing that thing to watch it pop. If they can have armor and sparks coming off of what your killing that would be a fine substitute.

But that won't work for everything and why not do what has worked so well in the past and build on it. Gore isn't the game guys. Of course they can do what they want. But you make an FPS with all these elements and then you expect to see it.

[Slum]

Nicely written Uly. I love gore, but I still disagree to an extent.

[armagon9177]

Slum did you work on Quake 4?

[KeyserSoze]

Online petitions are stupid, and this one is no exception. I'm not saying your opinion is stupid; it's a perfectly valid concern (games and movies often suffer when sacrifices are made to get a lower rating), but the decision has been made and a petition isn't going to change anything.

I don't think you should dwell on the "exploding bodies" comment too much. I'm sure it was just a random off-hand remark that didn't actually refer to anything specific they had to take out of the game... probably just the first thing that came to mind when he tried to come up with an example of something that would give the game an "M" rating.

[danr]

uly - i'm not sure what a "gracious" amount of gore means ... but there was next to no gore in Alien (apart from the one famous scene). It pulled the Texas Chainsaw Massacre trick, of making you believe you'd seen more than you had.

[East]

From an enthusiast gamer's point of view, id has lost a lot of its appeal to me starting with Doom 3, has felt behind the times for a while, and I have to say I don't really care about Rage all that much (but I'm hopeful, it's not the same old id stuff). They are a business, and they can't go on forever on their old Doom and Quake legacies, because more and more gamers that grow up go "Doom what? Quake who?", so trying to broaden their market appeal is probably a necessity.

I think gore is overrated an overused anyway. Make things look painful instead by making good use of sound and clever dynamic impact animations.

[ElysiumGX]

Honestly, there should be less games using realistic gore as their selling point. I'm excited that id is trying something different than what is expected.

[TomDunne]

Two thoughts:

1) We don't know enough about the game to say how much we'll miss 'exploding bodies'. DOOM wouldn't be the same without the gore, but since this is a new property that's significantly focused on driving rather than pure FPS combat, maybe we won't miss the gibs and such.

2) If you do want to change the game, it sounds like an excellent reason to make a mod /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Slum]

[ QUOTE ]
Slum did you work on Quake 4?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but I'm working on wolfenstein. On that note, my opinion has nothing to do with the fact I'm working on an id game. Also, I know nothing more about Rage than you guys.

I'm not surprised Rawkstar has stayed out of this thread. heh.

[Snowfly]

Did you just quote and reply to yourself?

[Slum]

Haha, yes snowfly. I was trying to reply to the post under that one.

This is why I don't post this early.Only bad things happen! XD

[JDinges]

Slum is awesome like that.

[Uly]

Danr: Maybe we aren't watching the same movie, cause Aliens exploding out of a guy's chest on screen, an android getting his head ripped off by a baseball bat (Was it a bat? Can't remember.), and the rest being killed by happymouth #2 was pretty gory. Everyone has opinion though. Mmm, best sequel ever: Aliens was one of the greatest prosthetic gore fests of all time. Fuck, I wish FOX would rerelease it in high def.

[Mark Dygert]

Far be it for me to tell John Carmack how to make his games. He's gotten along pretty well this far without my opinion if he really needed it he would come looking for it.

I don't like the idea of any company in the industry bending to the will of 10,000 soccer moms powered by Jack Tampon rants, crying for less violence. Make your games, get your ratings whatever they may be and move on.
I also don't like the idea of inflating your rating when you don't need to. Its between id and the ESRB, if they can deliver a good game to a wider audience I don't see that as a bad thing. It's always nice when you can have your customers acquire your product through legal means.

The only people I see signing this petition are people who felt deeply wounded when a clerk said "sorry son, you need your mom to come down and buy this, its for mature audiences only". Now being of an age that doesn't happen they feel like a rite of passage is being stripped away. Tough tacos, welcome to life, its short and it sucks.
Keep in mind that life is short, do you really want to spend your time on this?

Something tells me id isn't done with its gore fests just yet, but I don't think it would hurt to grow their company in a new direction while still supporting the old tried and true. If you want RAGE to be a gore fest, go ahead and make it that way on your own time I'm sure it will be a big hit with the mod community.

Who can blame them for wanting to try something new, after how many years of delivering pretty much the same stories recycled in new tech?

[Rhinokey]

i don't think its bending to the will of anyone besides wanting to make a little more cash.

and man online petitions are really the lamest things ever made. grow a set man. if you are going to petition something. make it something that fucking matters.

[doc rob]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/rhinokey/

[Rhinokey]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/rhinokey/

[/ QUOTE ]

signed. because thats seriously a more usefull petition than the orriginal.

[cochtl]

i want to petition but i dont want to be the first O_O....i need a bandwagon to jump on.

[Slum]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petitions_are_stupid/

[rawkstar]

you guys are totally not convincing anyone with:

"4 Total Signatures"

[Jesse Moody]

[ QUOTE ]
you guys are totally not convincing anyone with:

"4 Total Signatures"

[/ QUOTE ]


Haha...Rock on...

Yeah who cares really. It's there game. If they want to make a barbie dream home designer then it's their choice. I wouldn't want to work on that but it isn't up to us now is it.

[IronHawk]

So many petitions so little time! I feel like I've really contributed to something though and will be warm and fuzzy all day.

Rage looks like a sweet racing game and I really don't care if it has gore or not. I'm looking for epic megatexture vistas and top notch Baja style racing action.

[ebagg]

An iD game without the gibs? That just seems blasphemous!

[Rhinokey]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/rhinokey/

[/ QUOTE ]

i would also like to point out that my petition already has more sigs..

[jzero]

Gore in action games is like swearing in rap music.

[Kevin_Johnstone]

Couldn't you just find something worth caring about? I think that would be easier.

I have to say though i think its an odd move considering i've read stuff about M rated games selling better.

k.

[Joshua Stubbles]

[ QUOTE ]
You may as well create a petition against icebergs.

[/ QUOTE ]

rofl

[HonkyPunch]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no_more_icebergsin2009/

[Pedro Amorim]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no_more_icebergsin2009/

[/ QUOTE ]

yeahh.. thats just stupid

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think its bending to the will of anyone besides wanting to make a little more cash.

and man online petitions are really the lamest things ever made. grow a set man. if you are going to petition something. make it something that fucking matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

What matters to some doesn't matter to others. A few friends I've talked to think its important to stick with violence. Maybe I can clarify. To me id Software was always the game dev you could count on to make really violent games. It bothers me that has seemed to change. Given some of the enemies that come at you in the game, I believe mild gore doesn't fit. So I created the petition to see how many agree with me. You are quite welcome to not sign it of course but I really don't get the insults.

You need to mature a bit, I'm sorry. If you think my stance is stupid thats fine, but back it up with a reason. Insulting me does what? You didn't hurt my feelings. Just calm down a bit and discuss the issue.. prove me wrong by examples or something.

Its also John Carmacks statement in that he says yeah the game would probably be more fun with exploding bodies but a TEEN rating won't kill us. If its more fun then why not do it? The only conclusion I can draw is that they are trying to target a larger audience. I think they should be aiming ofr the most enjoyable experience possible.

[Neo_God]

whatever, I like some of my actions games to be hyper gore powered (Especially id Games), probably because I'm a barbarian. But if they don't put some in, oh well. Why my apathy? Because there will probably be a gore mod for it.

[nitzmoff]

Teen vs. Mature is almost always a business decision. There's more money in Teen.

Personally, I hope they do something other than exploding bodies and such like they always do, might be a nice change of pace. Then again, I have no interest in pod racing through the choco-mountains.

Edit: Seems times are a changin' a bit as M rated games are apparently selling more (at least according to some studies). But certainly as recently as Oblivion a few years ago, 'Teen' was always considered to be the safer sale.

Strange times.

[armagon9177]

Heres some screen caps I took. They have a really great look going here which is no suprise cause its id Software. But the look of the game is so much at odds with its targeted rating. The guy being shot doesn't even seem to be in pain and almost looks like he slipped. It doesn't look right and I believe it won't feel quite right when the game is released. Of course its a trailer and the game is a work in progress. So I take it for that, a work in progress. I think it helps my argument though.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3756/ragecharactersud6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[doc rob]

oh my god. Shut up already.

By no possible definition is an M rating a larger market because T rated games are available to more people.

[Snowfly]

"selling more", not "larger market". big difference there. /images/graemlins/smile.gif the odds are against it though, but if you look at last year's crop of games, plenty of good ones were M rated so I wouldn't be surprised if the statistics are skewed a bit. If anything, publishers should get the idea that it's OK not to fear the M rating.

From a strict potential buys vs. actual buyers, i think splattering bodies versus getting a T rating is trivial. Good on id, but then again I don't have a lot of emotions to invest in their effect on my nostalgia. I give everyone in this thread a T rating for caring so much about the topic. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

To the original poster, way to blow a direct quote out of proportion

[dfacto]

Wow, so much drama over a rating?

I'd much rather rant about the foreseeable overuse of zombie closets and mind numbingly repetitive gameplay.

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
"selling more", not "larger market". big difference there. /images/graemlins/smile.gif the odds are against it though, but if you look at last year's crop of games, plenty of good ones were M rated.

From a strict potential buys vs. actual buyers, i think splattering bodies versus getting a T rating is trivial. Good on id, but then again I don't have a lot of emotions to invest in their effect on my nostalgia. I give everyone in this thread a T rating for caring so much about the topic. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

To the original poster, way to blow a direct quote out of proportion

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you saying we are going to see gore in the game? My guess is we aren't. So all I did was quote him, throw out and support my opinion that it should be there. Like Uly said. "If the setting cries for it, then you cry when its not there" or something to that effect.

Look at the world they are creating... Halo 1-3, Bioshock, Half Life (all of them), Gears of War, Far Cry, COD 4, Mass Effect, Perfect Dark Zero, TES Oblivion are all games that had different ranges of gore. Some a lot more then others. The developers of these sucessful games chose a level of gore that suited their game.

Given the imagery above in the RAGE screens I think the level of gore needed exceeds a T rating. I may be blowing it out of proportion, I'm trying my best =D.

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, so much drama over a rating?

I'd much rather rant about the foreseeable overuse of zombie closets and mind numbingly repetitive gameplay.

[/ QUOTE ]

heh, I think they learned from that. I really hope so! I could almost see the triggers they setup in the hallways to spawn Imps behind me. =D True gameplay is more important but thats difficult to evaluate right now.

[Joseph Silverman]

Rage's art style is clean and high fantasy, to me, more than grimey and horror. I think the puffs of smoke style will suit it awesomely, and you should quit whining and let iD make their game. If when it comes out I just can't get into it because nobody's head is torn in half, i'll admit i was wrong, but I don't really expect that to happen.

[Snowfly]

[ QUOTE ]
So are you saying we are going to see gore in the game? My guess is we aren't

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither actually. /images/graemlins/smile.gif And my guess, since the man Carmack himself has spoken, is that we aren't.

I can't speak too much about this stuff without sounding like a hypocrite, since as much as I think gore or non-gore in a game like this doesn't matter, I'll still whip out my Lancer and hop over barricades just to get a gratuitous chainsaw kill, cos it makes me feel like a badass.

And at blowing things out of proportion...you are succeeding on yourself only. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I doubt the id guys seriously sat down and deliberated whether or not they should have gore in the game. Heck, from a production pov, the work involved vs. the perceived increase in fun is still a bit iffy. There are tons of other design choices to make that have a larger effect on how fun the final game actually is but you knew that...

That is of course just plain speculation...

[armagon9177]

whining, I'd say complaining would be more accurate. We all know there will be a sequel to Gears of War and I will get my gore fix. It has some fantasy elements but when you bring guns into the mix... and no blood. Well its like mustard in my ice cream or something.

[Joseph Silverman]

[ QUOTE ]
when you bring guns into the mix... and no blood. Well its like mustard in my ice cream or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't see how that could be. Plenty of movies and games have bloodless gunfights. The matrix lobby battle against the paramilitary guards, for example doesn't have a single drop of blood (-- although there is blood when the first few security guards are killed.)

[Rob Galanakis]

It is pretty sad id would do this, when a best-seller like Mass Effect has full-on hardcore alien sex.

[Justin Meisse]

I dunno, Warhammer Online has crucified dwarfs (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/screenshots/SST_0807_23.jpg) and we're going for a Teen rating

[HonkyPunch]

Post deleted by Jimmies_the_squirrel

[Joseph Silverman]

Jimmies, you aren't getting any more clever. Just stop it, man.

[ElysiumGX]

http://kotaku.com/353775/mature-games-are-down-50-since-2005

proof most people don't follow your crazy fetish

[Rhinokey]

i love gore in games, but i would never presume to tell someone what to do in a game they are making. especialy a company with the track record that id has.

theres starving whales in india being clubbed to death in cages to have fur coats made out of them.

but your petition worthy cause is telling another game company how to make their game.

will you play this game with a teen rating?

[Snowfly]

No that's just what the ESRB slaps on them. How did they SELL?

While we're using questionable articles on the net as sources:
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33786/98/
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/09/11/study-m-rated-games-have-higher-scores-better-sales/

[Mtg_kirin]

why would they try to make Id games more gory? Good for them for doing something deferent

[HonkyPunch]

[ QUOTE ]
Jimmies, you aren't getting any more clever. Just stop it, man.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I know.
I'm done, I promise.
Anyways, in a related thought;
I don't care how much violence there is as long as it's a fun game. Last time I bought a game for the gore was Gears of War, and I regretted that because I cannot stand that game for anything more than co-op and furious blood wanking.
IT may take a way from the "realism" but honestly that's never really bothered me with games, so long as they're fun.
Amirite?

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
why would they try to make Id games more gory? Good for them for doing something deferent

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see the link between gore and doing something different. Gore is your reward for killing enemies the way I see it. Doing something different to me is what id Software said would be the premise of the game. 60 percent combat 40 percent driving. Removing gore isn't doing something different really. Would we applaud them for removing rag doll physics? Applaud them for taking on vehicles not removing gore. That doesn't make sense.

[Joseph Silverman]

I would applaud them for taking ragdolls out, yes. well done animations would be different and awesome.

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
i love gore in games, but i would never presume to tell someone what to do in a game they are making. especialy a company with the track record that id has.

theres starving whales in india being clubbed to death in cages to have fur coats made out of them.

but your petition worthy cause is telling another game company how to make their game.

will you play this game with a teen rating?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not intentionally telling id Software how to make their game. All I set out to do was express my disappointment about the removal of gore that has been in all their past games. I spoke with a few other people and saw some posts about other people feeling the same way so I set up the petition just to setup a place where people can voice their opinion on that specific issue. Its up to id what they're going to do. If the petition is sucessful maybe it gives id pause and they include it and make a better game (I don't see it happening though). If its not then thats fine with me.

I think DOOM 3 was entertaining and not necessarily a good game. So this time around I think that id needs to use their strengths (which happens to be twisted displays of gore). So they need to use their strengths (all of them) along with their new idea for RAGE which I think is great as described so far.

Will I pass on a game based on a rating? I honestly don't know. It depends on reviews, game footage, and what I hear about the game. I'm not in this fixed mindset that I won't play the game evar if it doesn't have gore. I loved battlefield 1942 and that was rated TEEN. It did something that hadn't been done before and eclipsed the need for gore. I hope if id is going TEEN with this game they can find something as well. But Gears of War to me was able to do both.

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
I would applaud them for taking ragdolls out, yes. well done animations would be different and awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

heh, I didn't consider the substitute when I said that. Good point. Guess I am THAT used to ragdoll physics that I honestly had forgotten about death animations. haha, whooo its late.

I wonder how a blending of rag doll physics and death animations would work? To have death animations near a wall could cause the characters to lay down into that wall clipping through it. I remember the Shamblers in Quake. Maybe some type of zoning could be done for delicate areas like stairs for instance.

That would be cool.

[HonkyPunch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would applaud them for taking ragdolls out, yes. well done animations would be different and awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

heh, I didn't consider the substitute when I said that. Good point. Guess I am THAT used to ragdoll physics that I honestly had forgotten about death animations. haha, whooo its late.

I wonder how a blending of rag doll physics and death animations would work? To have death animations near a wall could cause the characters to lay down into that wall clipping through it. I remember the Shamblers in Quake. Maybe some type of zoning could be done for delicate areas like stairs for instance.

That would be cool.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.naturalmotion.com/euphoria.htm
?
I'm all for expanding of death animations.
I still prefer them to ragdoll, because it's lost it's novelty long ago. I'm getting sick of shooting someone in the face and seeing them flop flaccidly to the ground. I'm getting really sick of shooting someone in the leg and then having them reset a few inches off the ground, and dropping. Lame.
No one dies like that, I liked the ragdoll in the newest Turok, actually. They'd fall holding where they were shot, and occasionally twitch or flail on their way down.
Cool stuff.

[Uly]

[ QUOTE ]
I would applaud them for taking ragdolls out, yes. well done animations would be different and awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]
While we're at it, fuck models. Just use sprites for the baddies.

Rore, we've gone a long way since Hitman47. Take a look at CoD4 or R6 Vegas and you might realize we've come a long way since then. Those animations you're talking about? Yeah, we can blend them. You can even see it as early in Metroid Prime.

[KeyserSoze]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To the original poster, way to blow a direct quote out of proportion

[/ QUOTE ]

So all I did was quote him, throw out and support my opinion that it should be there.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you are failing to realize is that the quote was a completely off-the-cuff remark, and it's not as if they had ExplodoCorpse™ v2.03 already built into the engine and then all of a sudden decided, "whoa, hold on there John, we're going to go for a teen rating this time so you better just scrap the ExplodoCorpse™ altogether." He was obviously just referring to gore in general, and exploding bodies was the first thing that came to mind. You seem to be really hung up specifically on exploding bodies for some reason.

I think that's what Snowfly meant by blowing the quote out of proportion.

[Rhinokey]

well ok.. by stating that if the game was good you would still probably play it just makes your petition completely pointless. why on earth would they change plans if the petition starter himself.. would still play the game without gore.

[b1ll]

Maybe they want to appeal to a larger audiance. The game itself wont be better or worse cause of that IMO. and anyway, if u want gore, just go play SOF. Everyone as the right to their own opinion but a petition for that gore shit is just fuucking R O F L

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
well ok.. by stating that if the game was good you would still probably play it just makes your petition completely pointless. why on earth would they change plans if the petition starter himself.. would still play the game without gore.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the petition I never called for "not playing the game". Read more carefully. I did however say that if you feel you will not play this game due to this issue please note it in your comments. I left that option open for people signing the petition. I'm Brian McLeland the first signer and I never said that I wouldn't play the game definitively.

What the petition says.

"To: id Software
FANS OF ID SOFTWARE SPEAK OUT! The new IP/game "RAGE" from id Software is breaking with tradition by TAMING DOWN the level of GORE to the point of making the game rated "TEEN".

If you want id Software to make the game "RAGE" a mature/rated M game by including excessive gore that was present in their past games, please sign this petition. If you see this as id Software's way to appeal to a larger market and think the experience of the game will suffer as a result, please sign this petition. If you plan to not purchase this game when released due to this issue please make a note of it in your comments.

Thanks!

"We did make the decision that, 'Yeah, the game would probably be a little bit more fun with exploding bodies, but it won't kill us to keep it down at a T rating," - John Carmack


Sincerely,

The Undersigned"




I said I don't know in my post first! and then go on to explain reasons why I might play this game. Your reading things that aren't there. My petition is that I would urge id Software to add gore. Also read John Carmacks quote carefully. He said

"We did make the decision that, 'Yeah, the game would probably be a little bit more fun with exploding bodies, but it won't kill us to keep it down at a T rating," - John Carmack

"We did make the decision that..." To me that means they've come to an assesment that gore isn't nessecary in the game, and are likely proceeding with that plan. If you look at the trailer there is no gore at all, and it looks strange. I believe that given the world they are making which I backed up with the screenshots. I have not contradicted myself. I left an option for people to say they won't play the game based on this issue in the comments. Notice that I didn't ever comment I wouldn't play the game based on there being no gore. I just left that open for people who feel that way. Maybe you didn't understand that you can argue a point about the game without outright condeming it. Thats what I was trying to do. I see what I think is a mistake that will hinder the game and I focused ont that.

I didn't make a petition saying "We the undersigned won't play the game if it doesn't have gore." I just left that option open for people to voice in the petition if anyone feels that way.

Try reading the things carefully. I know with all the posts I've made trying to backup my stance maybe that point was lost.

[Slum]

Oh my fucking christ, you're reading into this quote WAY too much. Go play a game or something.

[dfacto]

Yeah. Now if this were Fallout and they said there wouldn't be any more crazy critical hit gibs I'd be foaming at the mouth.

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh my fucking christ, you're reading into this quote WAY too much. Go play a game or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're getting a,little worked up over a thread that started over my opinion. Yet you keep posting here. Go post in a different thread or something. I will keep responding to clarify and backup my point. If you don't agree thats fine but calm down.

Nobody is forcing any of you to keep this thread alive. I didn't come over to your house and make you read this! You chose to come here very well knowing my stance and what you were likely to find in this thread. I respect your opinion on the issue, I just disagree with it. Why can't we keep it on that level?

[Rhinokey]

no YOU don't get it.. i don't care what you stated..

I'm saying lets say i'm carmack i look at your petition

"hmm these six people want us to change our plans and add gore to the game... but they will still play the game without gore."

what is his motivation to bend to your will if you don't even care enough to not play the game without gore.

its like petitioning mcdonalds to change to health food. but also stating in the petition "oh we will still eat here anyways if you ignore the petition"


oh.. how old are you?

[cholden]

Three pages in and nobody called this yet?

Troll post!

I love ya, polycount, but ya'll gotta wise up to these kids.

[Snowfly]

HAHAHA pst armagon, marketing 101. try posting about your petition over at gamespot, you'll have no trouble filling it up with e-mail addresses there.

they're dropping priceless bombs like
"ID aiming for a T rating.

Gaming = dead."

T RATING = YOU SOLD YOURSELFS SHAME ON YOU
the rest is uber cool"

It's the end of the work day here. posting in this thread is strangely stress relieving...

[armagon9177]

I said I don't know!!! You can't seem to read. I am saying to id that. These people think your game will suffer as a result of making the game rated TEEN, then I left an opton for people to say I won't play this game if its rated TEEN.

Whats the motivation? If the petition is sucessful then id will know there are people out there that would prefer to play the game with gore. And they will also know how many in the petition will not buy the game outright because of the rating.

Its a petition saying I think you are making THIS mistake. Look at it as customer feedback. I won't say that I won't ever play the game because it might be great. I'm saying that its a mistake to create RAGE without gore because of the setting and the look of the game. If this petition shows that fans are disappointed that there is no gore and maybe 30 percent won't buy the game then maybe they will think about the issue. Thats their motivation IMO.

waiting for next post to misinterprate what I posted......

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
HAHAHA pst armagon, marketing 101. try posting about your petition over at gamespot, you'll have no trouble filling it up with e-mail addresses there.

they're dropping priceless bombs like
"ID aiming for a T rating.

Gaming = dead."

T RATING = YOU SOLD YOURSELFS SHAME ON YOU
the rest is uber cool"

It's the end of the work day here. posting in this thread is strangely stress relieving...

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a bad idea, oh BTW dig your artwork. Never knew April was so hott. NICE.

[Mark Dygert]

armagon9177 you are fighting a losing battle in the eyes of the majority here. You came looking for soldiers to join your army and found it hard to recruit from the polycount ranks. Now by posting monster replies to defend your weak position, you are keeping your thread alive by turning it into a spectacle.

You are right, no one is holding a gun to anyones head making them come here. But choosing to go on monster rants and throwing a temper tantrum will certainly get people in here to watch you self destruct. If you want to piss your 49 posts of creditability away over this stupid issue I won't stop you, in fact it will entertaining. But don't get mad at other people when they call it like they see it.

[Rhinokey]

i havent misinterped anything. i know exactly what you are about.

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
armagon9177 you are fighting a losing battle in the eyes of the majority here. You came looking for soldiers to join your army and found it hard to recruit from the polycount ranks. Now by posting monster replies to defend your weak position, you are keeping your thread alive by turning it into a spectacle.

You are right, no one is holding a gun to anyones head making them come here. But choosing to go on monster rants and throwing a temper tantrum will certainly get people in here to watch you self destruct. If you want to piss your 49 posts of creditability away over this stupid issue I won't stop you, in fact it will entertaining. But don't get mad at other people when they call it like they see it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not mad at all. I'm suprised, I thought I'd get more supporters. All I am trying to do with the monster posts is to clarify my position. "I could even say my quotes are taken WAY out of context." Just trying to clarify and get back on subject. Social suicide on a forum does not bother me if I feel strongly about the issue.

My postition is not weak at all. It is here, but I guarantee there are thousands of gamers out there who would agree with me. They just don't seem to be here. Anyways, there are other people who are getting pissed off and snapping at me. Thats not getting defensive thats fact. I just want to discuss the issue.

[Rhinokey]

well then for gods sake go and find those people. and i guarantee that id have enough experience in this biz that they would not do this if they thought it would not be profitable. I also don't think its the end of gore for them. Its just not what they chose to do with this game to reach a larger audience.

[dfacto]

Armagon, when you run into a wall you turn around and go in another direction. You don't go run into it again and again.

But hey, it's amusing for everyone watching, so keep at it.

[armagon9177]

[ QUOTE ]
Armagon, when you run into a wall you turn around and go in another direction. You don't go run into it again and again.

But hey, it's amusing for everyone watching, so keep at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please try and keep on subject. Let's discuss the issue, and not social advice for armagon. It seems to me that people can't discuss an issue here without letting it effect them personally.

"Jesus Fucking Christ!" thats kinda an an emotional outburst. IMO We have completely strayed from debate. If we can't get back on topic then let this thread die. I'm putting forth the effort cause earlier I heard some really worthwhile opinions even if they didn't support my stance. If you can't focus on that please don't post. Thankyou.

[Slum]

And, today's quote, brought to you by bash.org http://bash.org/?839112

<Evan> Real Swiss chocolate? Like from actual Sweden?

[dfacto]

This thread would have died on page one if you hadn't posted nonstop, notwithstanding that nobody really cared very much, or even agreed with you; thus the wall analogy.

We either don't care, or think you're wrong. Let it go.

Or not, as I said, forum member implosions are fun to watch.

[armagon9177]

Well the maturity level here is strikingly low. A quote of the day which has no relevance and someone continuing to give me social advice. Thread is dead.

But keep an eye on the petition, it will grow. Take care people. Thanks for those who made this an intelligent debate in the beginning. peace.

[Mark Dygert]

Attempting to re-rail a train wreck is hard, but hey let me try and get some useful info out of ya...

- What teeth does the petition have if its founder will still buy and enjoy the game?

- What do you think the chances are of getting a petition to envoke any kind of change if it has no teeth?

- Even if you manage to raise an army do you really think it is your place to tell an industry leader how to grow new IP?

- Who do you think is the better judge as to what is best for the game?
A) 10,000 fanboi's who daily get their panties in a bunch over just about anything.
Or
B) The people actually creating the game, know the goal of the game (make money by providing a fun experience), have made previous games and will continue to make gore fests but just have chosen with this one to not take that extreme of a route, this time?

- What exactly makes you think that gore is the only hallmark of good games and that you can't have a good game without it?

- What types of other games have you played?

- What kind of people do you want signing your petition?
A) Gore addicts that will not let themselves enjoy anything but gore.
B) Fanboi's that feel like they are being robbed but really aren't.
C) Morons who sign stuff just for fun.
D) Intelligent people who make informed decisions and don't fly off the handle at internetz quotez.

[East]

[ QUOTE ]
And, today's quote, brought to you by bash.org http://bash.org/?839112

<Evan> Real Swiss chocolate? Like from actual Sweden?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and we also make excellent watches here in Sweden /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[bearkub]

Yah, this thread has pretty much run its course. Move along...