Dominance War 2 - fogmann

[fogmann]

And we're in!

Content coming soon.

[rooster]

ho shit! nice combo, should be one to watch!

[buddy the designer]

Humphrey Bogart for teh win.

[buddy the designer]

Sorry for double post, but I'm wondering, does teams have smaller chance of winning than single person? Or it doesn't matter for judges?

[sorry for spamming your thread fogman/snowfly]

[Fuse]

Hey fogman, dont mean to rain on your parade but it seems like Snowfly is teamed up with struve as well.

Unfortunately it doesnt seem to be permitted for one person to be on multiple teams

http://www.dominancewar.com/2/readbrief/index.htm

Thought i'd give you a heads up

[buddy the designer]

Just wanted to post about it Fuse, there's new point in rules, marked in red. One Entry per person, You got to choose one SnowFly.

[gauss]

dear fogmann,

i am very interested in your upcoming dominance war 2007 entry.

sincerely,
gauss

PS - as i think i point out readily in my own thread for this year, there's no reason why Snowfly or any other talented artists can't help you out, it just can't be an "official" team-up. i helped a ton of people last year and as i recall, i don't think a single one considered me as a proper teammate. no, i don't feel betrayed (*sob*). aaaanyway, your attention to detail and craft of your 3D work has impressed us all here, so please keep us updated on the progress of your character for this compo. given your style and predelictions in terms of subject matter, i am particularly keen on seeing where you go with this.

[Snowfly]

these threads do go down fast! here's what weve been up to..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann4.jpg

we're going for a flame thrower wielding lady (yes that is a lady) atop an elegant flying insect mount, aka DEATH FROM ABOVE!! the horse-like beetle is the latest.

[gavku]

nice work man......middle right looks the most badass...

[fogmann]

Yay, sweeeeet!
So it will work with wings, you think? I really also like that middle right one, very interesting shape. It looks like grumpy old bug that has nothing left but to fight until it drops. And then the wings look like whole another character. Great job /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Snowfly]

update! just fleshing out the creature design for the mount. so hard. some things are working, some not...as is always the case at this stage...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann5.jpg

sinewy underside, tough hide like leather, hardened shells on the front end, head fashioned like a bayonet, 'X' shaped pectorals. taking my cue from horses this time, i've always been fascinated by how an animal that's built to run can have such spindly legs.

[killingpeople]

the concepts you're kicking out are badass snowfly, great work.

[FunkaDelicDass]

Yeah Snowfly, that is a fantastic looking mount. The wings may need to be a bit larger though.

[fogmann]

Wow, I love this, Snowfly! Even though it is now loosing insect and getting more mammal features, I think it's looking awesome. Anatomy looks believable, and also I think it's working with the rider. I was a bit concerned that she might be on the way of the wings, but you pulled it off so nicely, since the wings are at the front, where the most of weight is, which in turn holds the balance.

I can't wait to start working on this, it will be sooo much fun! I don't think I was ever so excited to start working on something, yay! Come weekend, come!

[parasite7]

I love that first skecth...the flying monster on the right....that is one of my favorite pieces of concept art in the contest, very cool man.

[ChaosEidolon]

sexay concepts snowfly. they look fun to ride

[Hito]

That is wicked awsome!

[- FredH -]

I am surprised you didn't go with the middle right one, that one was radiating potential! However, this one is pretty good too. On first glance, it looked a little unbalanced, but I got quickly used to it.

Anxious to see how this beast will develop. If he gets too big, I might have to put my gun on a higher kill setting hehe

_FreD_

[struve]

Love it!!

[gauss]

the thing is, i know where Snowfly lives. i've actually slept in the same room as the man, and yes, if you must know, while he slept i dipped his finger in ink and pressed them into my sketchbook, while incanting an ancient art-thieving spell. but it seems he's got more than enough to spare /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
puh-leez keep this thread updated.

[Snowfly]

mr. slinky bunny hop r stealer of mojo /images/graemlins/frown.gif

small update. maybe done with the mount, but i'd like to try another variation. working on the rider and weapon now. thing is, she is designed almost as an accessory to the mount, and looks pretty boring without it...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/art-flamethrower.jpg

[indian_boy]

hehe... maybe u could do it the other way around? make the girl the pet who does the beast's bidding?
cuz the mount looks awesome. it's shapes are nice and features like the feet and face and neck are really interesting. i luv the colour scheme too.
unfortunately, i have to agree with u with the girl being boring. If u ask me, i think u need to do some funkying up of the pants, shoulder 'pads' and gun. For her mid-section you could add little vials or grenades... or maybe technical equipment and ammo etc.

[noritsune]

I loved how the skybax riders' uniforms incorporated elements of the skybaxes themselves in James Gurney's "Dinotopia" - maybe this insect-mounted girl's uniform could pick up more cues from the body of the insect? Seeing her bizarre proboscis-like helmet in the first of your two most recent drawings made me think of this. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Snowfly]

thanks for the input guys. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

indian boy - yup actually, the rider still is who's in control. i was just mentioning that her armor is being designed to complement the look of the beast.. like noritsune is suggesting. which is why the beastie was designed first.

fogmann brought up the idea of pets taking on their owners and vice versa, and that's what we're going for... struggling, but getting there. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[fogmann]

<3!!!

I think it's coming together very nicely. What is missing maybe is as suggested something around the hips area that will add an element of interest and break it up, but the silhouette is already quite interesting, because of the cape and cool looking shoulder pads.

And please don't feel constrained by anything I said /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Snowfly]

here's a variation.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/fogmann7.jpg

just rethinking how the creature would look from the ground, so i blackended the bottom to give it the "shadow" look, and fllattened out the structure to fit the idea in the thumbnail. the legs were simplified into spines, as flight trumps ground mobility. and i imagine it would have a demonic looking walk, when it does walk.

the rider's name is lola, and she likes chucking bombs at things and watching them explode.

got stuck in renderland and it's veering away from supersoldier, so maybe this is a throwaway...at least we're more sure about the textures of the creature now.

?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann8.jpg

[WickedFingers]

Oh man! Hey Snowfly, I was digging that helm that the ridder was wearing three images up from this post. Matched the creatures head and body structure so well it almost seems as if the rider is a part of the creature. Just a suggestion but I think if you were to keep a helmet on your rider you should keep that head gear. Looks bad ass and flows better in my opinion. Keep in going looks awesome. /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[fogmann]

I love this one also, wow! I just turn around and you knock out another awesome concept. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

This creature looks quite massive, as if it would be hard to take off and fly though. Perhaps it doesn't have to be flying per se (as in having to flap its wings), so a gliding kind of creature could work too, methinks. Like with the horse legs, I thought it could jump really high up and really fast, so that it can just jump off into the air and glide towards its victim.

Since it's finally weekend, I will start blocking in female body, and I will also try to come up with some shapes of the beast, or somehow try to help you with helping me /images/graemlins/laugh.gif And since I've never done any four legged, let alone winged creature, I think this will be a hell of a challenge, and a whole lot of fun too. Weeeeee!

[Sectaurs]

I liked the other body better... the proportions were more equine and it looked horrifyingly nimble, and insectoidal enough to believe it could fly with its proportions. This new one is cool, I especially like the head area, but it looks more like something that would gallop/shamble along the ground. As others have pointed out, the armor and helm of the rider that matched the critter was a cool feature and is missed in this image.

As far as coloring goes, usually flying animals are white on the underside and black on top, so that when looking up they blend in with the sky and when looked down upon they blend in with the dark landscape.

[dur23]

Wow snowfly, just wow. That is a fantastic concept.

[Slipstream]

Holy crap, that is bad ass!
Its like unicorn meets a dragon meets somekind of incredible killingmachine type insect. I can't wait to see this modelled!

[struve]

Each concept is getting better and better in this thread. Rock on!!

[fogmann]

Blocked in the base, so next is to see how different pieces of gear and armor will fit together on top of this base. I'll refine it a bit more with sculpting t00lz, just need to fix some funky edge loops.

http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip01.jpg

[struve]

The topology looks good; will the sculpting t00lz involve some cool Mudbox action? This concept would make a good Mudbox model. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Snowfly]

now that is one fine looking female model!

here's a new sketch, i was going for something that *gasp* actually fits the brief...figured there was hardly anything shadowy about an armored woman with a blowtorch. this one is more the sam fisher-one man demolition team type.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/fogmann9.jpg

here's the peg for the mask. we'll use the same styling on her weapon, probably a long-range proximity mine launcher of some sort. with laser targeting and stuff!
http://www.darkart.cz/images/data/maur_iko.jpg

[noritsune]

wow! snowfly awesome drawing of the rider, and fogmann nice model to start. though I think that the neck is much too long on your model... other than that super! cant wait to see more!

[Mark Dygert]

Your guys concept and model run-ith over with all kinds of awesome.

You might need to start trimming some polys if you have armor and an entire other character left to do.

[fogmann]

Yay, that concept rocks, Snowfly! It will be lots of fun to work on it, can't wait to get home now /images/graemlins/smile.gif

And thanks for the comments guys, the model is just a base for high poly, and I'll chop it up into pieces and add stuff on top of it. Yeah, the neck is kind of long, I agree.

[Black_Magic]

Man!, I like a lot all your concepts, good luck!

[ebagg]

This entry is all types of sexalicious! Can't wait for more!

[conte]

awsm concept, snow fly

[MoP]

really cool stuff, both of you! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nelis]

concept looks great! good job

[rooster]

its this kind of stuff makes me want to work harder, model and concept /images/graemlins/smile.gif
snowfly your rendering skills make me jealous /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Spark]

Loving this piece, I really really hope you guys finish this, as I love the flow and deisgn of it. Great skills snow on the renders.

Spark

[struve]

Beautiful, simply Beautiful, Snowfly.

[greenj2]

Holy damn! There's some nice stuff in this thread. Great concepts and mesh, well done both of you.

[gauss]

yeah, thanks a whole fucking lot, snowfly. i look at that last color sketch of the girl and for a second i wish i had spent the last 5 months on my wacom. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
this is a tag team of epic proportions--fogmann, you've got an excellent basemesh on your hands so far, one that i'm sure you'll be able to make good use of well after this compo's over. can't wait for more, honestly.

[Snowfly]

glad you guys like the girl concept! she's too swat team/present day for me at the moment. definitely needs more evil TM.

boring update, just sussing out the anatomy and proportions for the steed. the head is starting to weird me out though!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann10c.jpg

gonna work on the accessories after i get back to my other cohort, struve.

general shapes to shoot for:
http://www.mbgnet.net/sets/grasslnd/animals/bison.jpg

[nacire]

Hey Snowfly, first off awesome concepts throughout this contest! Kudos! I really love the mount a lot. I'm gonna have to say my favorite is this image. The mount has a longer and slender proportion that really give it a more fluid and elegant feel. Something I think that really adds to the aspect that this thing flies.

Anyhow, keep up the awesome work man.;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann6.jpg

[Snowfly]

for what it's worth, here's the first iteration...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann10b.jpg

thanks for the input nacire, appreciate it.

[blankslatejoe]

beautiful work going on in here!

[vahl]

I love the last update, I don't know why but she looks noble there, and the mount is really classy too.

[conte]

hell horse! ahahahahah. that rox

[fogmann]

Just a small update - messing with mount base:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip02.gif

[erik1338]

its pretty cool! but why is it a hoofed animal when it can fly eh? its cool as it is, but just a thought,, :]

[mvelasquez]

im all sorts of jealous of your skills you two. fogmann is that silo?

[ZEROrhythm]

you rule so much snowfly, Love the concept, it makes me want to cry

[foreverendering]

excellent thusfar - keep it up!

[Snowfly]

no eye candy here...i was stumped for ideas, so i did the only sensible thing to do- scribble. been wanting to add accessories to the beast, to tie it up with the look of the rider. it's starting to look like a crazy samurai thing. fogmann - go or no go?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann11.jpg

[Japhir]

fogmann i really like your character/creature! but i think the beast should have at least eyes or something to look with.. he looks really cool but then the head is just two horn like things. other than that i think it looks totaly awsome! especially the character!

[fogmann]

Looking cool, Snowfly! I like the idea of adding some gear to the mount, and I think proportions are working better now too. Although I'm not so sure about wings anymore. They would be a really large part if we want this thing to be able to fly, and I'm thinking I'd have to crop them in final render if I want to show the detail on the mount and the rider. But actually... hmmm in the pose from your sketch, they could work just fine, yes?

I did a little scribble myself, getting stuck with the model and being unsure where to go from what I had blocked in. I wanted to add some more definition, and also thought of breaking the mount up somehow, because there is no way my machine can handle working on high poly of it in one peace. So here's the humble beetleization attempt - it's a paintover of the base model, and I also tried adding some colors:

http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip03.jpg
It's really funky, now that I see the cool shapes in your sketch. But I realize that this is the hardest part, and after the decision is made, everything should be easy. There's just way too many possibilities, and you keep bringing them up, so it's hard to pick when they all look so cool /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Also, thanks for comments everyone.
mvelasquez - yes, that's Silo. I just love refining shapes with it, because it makes it so easy and fun.
And Japhir, I'll most likely have the eyes, as agreed with Snowfly, big orange eyes are just so cool, like in this (http://photos.photosig.com/photos/99/59/1905999-446e2c70ddb8e3df.jpg)photo (yeah, I overdid it in my sketch >_<)

[fogmann]

Booting up..
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip04.jpg

[Jaco]

Sexy boot, looking forward to more.

[Quickel]

good modeling work so far - i like the original mount on page 1 over the beetle, though.

[fogmann]

Thank you, Jaco and Quickel. I'm still not 100% sure what exactly the mount would look like, so I might do a less buggy version of it.

Here's a little bit of progress, or shall I just call this left boot done for now:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip05.jpg
Ohs noes, the weekend is almost gone!

[Daz]

sexy boots fogmann!

[MoP]

Great modelling and concepting guys! This one is gonna be awesome...

[indian_boy]

wow... loving how this is going guys!

[Snowfly]

stylish boots! the adrenaline spur is a nice touch. fogmann when said you were faster this year you weren't kidding... /images/graemlins/blush.gif i'd better post something to keep up...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann12.jpg

bare version (in case you wanna block in your own shapes):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann12a.jpg

restyled the rider, but kept the silhouette. the helmet is like a crazy kendo mask now.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann13.jpg

[Jaco]

Sexy steed /images/graemlins/smile.gif Nice colours too. Those bags look a bit out of place, as you said. Maybe try something that looks more like the saddlebags found on a horse or something?

[Snowfly]

doh! of course why didn't i think of that? thanks jaco /images/graemlins/smile.gif

okay guys need your help... 1,2 or 3?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann-wings.jpg

[Jaco]

1, it's not the most original, but it looks the coolest. (And that's all that matters /images/graemlins/smile.gif)

[indian_boy]

(1) gets my vote. And if u personally don't like that, then (2)...
by the way :clears throat:
wowz!
as for the sacs, u could put the two on either side and bend them forward at like, 45 degrees, so they face the Rider. or u could do the horse-thing...
oh, and the boot is lookin' cool... luv the whole adrenalin-spur idea...

[Sectaurs]

2!

This is totally looking like a fucking cool remake of Sectaurs.

Which I heartily endorse [obviously]

[MoP]

I like wing style 2, it's fairly original and a nice silhouette /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[cochtl]

i also like the #2 set of wings. this model should come out great. i am seeing a panzer dragoon kind of rider and beast thing going on which is very cool. that boot came out great!

keep it up /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[richkid]

that makes me really happy

[fogmann]

Oh yes! That's it! Perfect, perfect, it's fantastic!

I love you, Snowfly, a big kiss for you!
No more changes, lets do this thing! Oh, and a side order of number 2 hot wings /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

It's really great that the mount is sectioned like that, because I can now clearly see how to break it up and work on the pieces. And the saddle could probably use the weapon + detachable gear budget if I don't have enough polies for it otherwise.
Yay /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[fogmann]

Weekend is back!
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip06.jpg
Just blocking in the shapes for the mount. Would love to know if you guys think there's anything wrong/could be better about the form, as I'll add gear on top and it will be much harder to fix later. I'll be also fixing the loops and I'm thinking now is the time to throw a quick skeleton to see how the rider will fit with the mount and if wings are too big or too small.

[conte]

solid mesh, lady, keep it up=)

[Jaco]

Nice! The forms look good to me! Maybe bulk up the area where the wings join the torso?

[Renaud Galand]

you catched the sketch's features perfectly on this model ! /images/graemlins/smile.gif Really nice job. As a tiny note, I'm just wondering about some edges here and there which seem a bit useless.

[fogmann]

Thanks for the kind words!
Jaco: good call, I bulked up that part a bit.
Renaud Galand: yeah, there are a lot of edges that don't make much sense at this stage, I'll definitely clean it up before I up-res it.

I threw in a quick rig, don't pay attention to funky deformations, I barely touched the weights. Just wanted to get the feel for the possible pose and how the two models fit together:

http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip07.jpg

[rollin]

this is going to be realy nice.. watching you /images/graemlins/wink.gif

but not sure about the new "kendo" mask.. the stripes are a bit thick what gives the mask a plump touch

[spacemonkey]

sweet work guys.. I'd love to see the mounts head larger and the spike jutting up even further and all blown out of proportions. It'd be great because it would suggest even more that the rider uses the mount as a weapon - sweeping in and ripping through its victims

[rooster]

looks absolutely brilliant! cant wait to see more /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Xaltar]

Awesome work both of you. Its work like this that makes me keep pushing myself to get closer to it. MORE....

[fogmann]

Thanks everyone, it's really encouraging to know you guys dig it /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Well, the Saturday's over, one more day to go. Here's a little more progress:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip08.jpg
I need to beef up the arms a little, they are way too slim at the moment, I think.

Spacemonkey, that's a good idea, I'll give it a try.

As for the kendo mask, I'm afraid that it might not be an option, because of the poly budget. With mask like that, I doubt alpha would work, and also I'd need to have a face modeled under it, and I just don't think I'll have enough polies for that. On the other hand, the mask wouldn't really add much to the silhouette. I like the idea where the mask is raised up and so the whole face is visible, and the mask adds another bit of interest to the helmet. Or if there isn't a mask, maybe just a bit of deco to give that spiky element to the helmet.

[fogmann]

Update:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip09.jpg

[wizo]

great details and form. + I love the concept. gj!!

[Empty]

damn girl..

Your cloth work as usual is looking great and fringe around the shoulder pad looks amazing. I do hope the ridges in the shoulder pads arn't as high in the final version. I liked how tight they looked in the concept. All in all, good stuff all around.

[Xaltar]

Holy S%#! nice work. I'm really looking forward to seeing this one complete.

[Sa74n]

mmmh i love that stuff. your clothing modelling/sculpting is top notch.

[Snowfly]

beautiful work fogmann, i really like how you're interpreting my chaotic sketches. i still owe you a drawing for the wings, not really comfortable with them sticking out on pegs like that. /images/graemlins/smile.gif you're free to do what you like with the mask of course.

...any way you can sneak in more work before the weekend? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[fogmann]

Thanks everyone.
Matt: your wish is coming true - there was no way to fit the rest of the gear around those shoulder pads, so I'll just redo the high poly that looks more like below. There's belt coming through them now, as they seemed to be the only part that was sort of just floating about and not tied up in any visible way.
And Snowfly, your wish is coming true as well, here's sneaking in some work before weekend /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Can't wait to see your 3D (concept already roxx)

As for Lola here, helmet was a real nightmare, I had a dozen of iterations, but didn't quite like any of them. I'm trying to make the helmet look more like in this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/fogmann9.jpg) concept, since those sticking out parts would go with the belts on the boots. I still need to refine the shapes, and clean them up. I'm trying to finish her up by the end of the (business) week, so I can spend the weekend on the mount, that will be fun. I need to really hurry up >_< At least the crunch is behind me so I'm regaining some energy now.

And a picture, almost forgot:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip10.jpg

[struve]

Wow, a lot of progress since the last time i've visited your thread, Love the arm!

[Xaltar]

Looking awesome, interesting shpes.

[gavku]

Man I love visiting this thread...always good work.

[Dread_Reaper]

Solid work man, I especially love the mount. I'll miss its dragon wings, but these insectoid ones are good too. The rider is coming along nicely, her space and textures make for a nice contrast between the figures, yet bring it together because of her contours. Keep going, to war!

-Dread_Reaper

[fogmann]

Thanks, people!
Well, here's a bit more progress. The helmet was bugging the hell out of me, so I made a new one, more like in this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann6.jpg) concept, and also added some more straps and belts and defined backpack. Yes, her butt has no detail. Need to have an area of nothingness to rest your eyes upon, no? Well, actually, there's some more of the underlying naked mesh that is still exposed, I think I'll just add some subtle wrinkles and suggest there's some clothing underneath. So, I think she's now all strapped up and ready to go. And excuse the wacky colors, just added them to make the bits and pieces more distinguishable.
As always, thanks for looking!
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip11.jpg

[Daz]

Beautiful looking model fogmann. I like how the helmet turned out. If I was forced to make one tiny crit (and it's tiny alright) I would suggest that you have overdone the posing somewhat in an attempt to give the neutral model some poise. Assuming Z is the depth of the image and Y up, considering the the arm and hand position from all angles, that arm is bent at the elbow in X in a way that is just not quite possible and feels a little awkward. Try it out in the mirror /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[rollin]

he wants you to make wired mirror games with yourself.... /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

but thats not that untrue..

like the stuff.. (the hips are sooo coool)

[Snowfly]

niiiice! maybe beef up the lower body so it isn't overwhelmed by all the stuff up top. aside from that little niggle, it's looking sexy!

[kipiripi]

she is looking nice,I like her new helmet alot..

[fogmann]

Oh snap, two more weeks only /images/graemlins/frown.gif Well, my computer got f'd and I almost lost this weekend, but it somehow works (although I can't tell if it's really fixed, since I don't even know what is wrong with it, it just uses around 70% processing power without any processes actually using CPU except sys idle of course; all I was able to find out is that it's slow like that because of hardware interruptions). I hope it will continue to work in near future and let me finish this thing at least.

Again, thanks for comments and kind words.
Daz, you are right, as always, and I'll try to address that on a low poly, or just be super careful when orienting the arm joints. And Snowfly, I see what you mean and I'll try to make her a bit bulkier (I guess more muscular legs would work?) on a low poly. Right now it would be a nightmare to try adjusting those things.

Here's the high poly of (most of) the rest of the body. I should really go back to most of the parts and refine the sculpt, but I'll see how much time I'll have.

http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip12.jpg

[rooster]

really nice work, this is a great entry!

[Rick Stirling]

Lovely stuff - nice mix of hard and soft edges.

[frostymoose]

ACE!

[Clint]

Beautiful sculping and I really love the overall shape of the character with the big hip pads and stuff. Hate to say somethin after you've made so much progress on it, but the helmet just isnt rubbing me the right way. The sillouhette from the side looks good, but in the front view, for me, the part sticking out is too skinny. If your following snowfly's concept, it looks more like a face mask that is flipped up and i really like it in the concept. Maybe its just me because other people seem to like it but i dunno, maybe just take another look at the concept. Other than that, im loving it. You MIGHT could try to balance out the lower body like snowfly said, but i dont particularly dislike the current proportions. Keep up the awsome work /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[fogmann]

Many thanks for the words of kindness and encouragement! /images/graemlins/smile.gif
And Clint, yeah I know which concept you mean, I liked that one too but thought that with a full mask I might need a few too many polies if I wanted to make it functional. As I mentioned, this one is from the first concept with female rider (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v353/chrisdejoya/Dominandce/fogmann6.jpg), where the idea was to have rider's gear mimic the beast (is there a mask there? Now that I look at it, it might as well be!). Either way, I like that idea of echoing mount's shapes, and that's what I got going (doesn't show yet, but hopefully will make more sense when I put the two together), and you're entitled to your own preference of course =)

At last, I think I'm done with high poly Lola:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip13.jpg
Sorry, she is still disfigured, the mirrored parts are missing as I didn't need them in the scene.

[Emil Mujanovic]

This is going to be a really solid entry. Your work seriously gets better and better with each new model. Great stuff!

-caseyjones

[Daz]

Stunning! Love the attention to detail.

[conte]

seexy folds!(edited)

[fogmann]

Thanks, guys!

Some progress on the mount, it's not quite there, need to add the straps and other little things, but I thought I'd show while it's everything at this level (still under 1m polies though) in one scene, since I'll have to work on piece by piece from here on.

http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip14.jpg
And why nobody told me working on creatures is so much fun /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Didn't really use any reference aside some bugs and Snowfly's concept, because it was taking me forever to find something that will be really useful, so I kind of eyeballed all the anatomy, hoping it would end up looking at least a bit plausible.

[Jackablade]

Looking nice as ever, Fogmann.

If you do need any reference art, the Warhammer 40k Tyranid Warriors share a few similar aspects to your beetle horse - Hooved feet, ribbed chest and plated carapace for a start. That said, what you've got thus far is looking about as plausible as a cross between a horse and a stag beetle is going to get. Nice work.

[rollin]

like it a lot /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Japhir]

really cool stuff! i realy like the eyes on the beast now! and her armor/clothes look great too!

[rooster]

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand it's going to kick some ass for polycount, and on the other its going to kick my ass. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
looks brilliant!

[Sectaurs]

Looks pretty bad-ass.

I'd like to see the muscles at the top of both sets of legs integrated into the body a little more... right now they're sort of stuck on - from the side view anyways. Its a touch choice when you've got to blend segmented carapaces with muscles.

His angry eyebrow looks a little silly in my opinion. Kind of takes it into the cartoon spectrum. I'd like to see it as a more uniformed beetled-brow [ha!], if you get my meaning.

He needs some little stiff bristly hairs sticking out of his softer parts. Like flies.

Keep on kicking ass, and you'd better finish this!

[fogmann]

Yay, thanks everyone!
Jackablade, thanks for the tip! I'll get back to the mount very soon.
Sectaurs - you made great points. Fortunately, I didn't get the mount quite done yet, so I'll take that into consideration and try to fix him up.

Yesterday I pretty much spent trying to find polies I can shave off from low poly, because I gave myself limit of 3k, so that I have another half for the mount. The saddle will be using weapon/detachable gear budget, so there should be enough. And then UVs, and baking in my bakery all day today. The AO was quite buggy, I need to clean it up, but the normal maps came out pretty well, maybe won't even need much touching up. Here's the AO and normal:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip15.jpg

And in case you didn't know, Lola is a hippie and she goes to war only because she vowed to defend the throne of his majesty, Count of Poly.
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip16.jpg

[Snowfly]

AWESOME! I can't believe how much detail is coming through in the normal map, and haha nice idea making her a jester but i refuse. /images/graemlins/smile.gif a week to get through the mount, weapon, textures and pose... whew, hope you make it!

[Jaco]

Looking awesome man, I love the way the helmet resembles the mount's head. Forfeit food, sleep, love, friends and even work to finish this! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[EarthQuake]

If you're using max, theres this fucking retarded thing where you have to set you ray distance to different settings for ambocc to render out, dunno whats up with this but it looks like thats the case. So render a seperate ambocc pass i guess. Whenever dealing with max i always run a quick low quality ambocc test before doing final maps.

[conte]

omg, that black holes...

[fogmann]

lol @ Snowfly - didn't mean to make her a jester, but that's a good one /images/graemlins/laugh.gif It's just that I assigned basic colors to parts to easily separate them for texturing and thought it looked too funky to not post. A week + another week (yay extension!) and I think I'll make it. The low poly for the mount is almost done, and I made some progress on the high poly:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip17.jpg

Now I think I'll have time to actually go in and refine it a bit more. As for the wings, I'm thinking of making them look like dragonfly's wings, not as much transparent, but to have that pattern, as the shape already resembles them. Thought it would be worthwhile to try to achieve some nice texturing on there, something like this (http://bobday.best.vwh.net/canyon/large/Dragonfly.jpg)
Any objections?

EQ: I use Maya and I tried different values for max ray distance, but that didn't help. When the rays are too short, the whole AO map gets much brighter, but the spots are still visible, and also the longer rays make them pitch black. It has something to do with underlying geometry, I have many overlapping parts, although they don't intersect at the outer surface where they are not supposed to. Anyway, it's not that bad and I already painted out most of them, which ended up being much quicker than waiting for mental ray to make the map. I redid some of the maps (there was detail missing on backpack so I rebaked that), but nothing much new to show with that.

[vahl]

really nice

for the normals and ambocc, you may want to consider xnormal...

[tremulant]

Geeez, this is looking fanstastic

[EarthQuake]

Maybe you should give xnormal a try for your next project? It has quite fast ambocc rendering.

Model is looking really good btw, excelent style. Elegant and natural, the design dosent look forced as you see so much, really nice change of pace.

[paultosca]

nice work so far ... here is a tip:for the amb occ pass you could bake it with mental ray using the normal map on the low geo ... it works only with final gather (dirtmap won't work) but the details are not as sharp as baked from the real geo... you should give it a try though ....

[fogmann]

Thanks for comments, gentlemen!
Well, thanks for being persistent in convincing me to go with xNormal, it worked like a charm! And it improved so much since the last time I used it (on my detective character where I still had problems with floating geo, but not anymore!). So I rebaked most of the textures, and also built the low poly of the rest, made some gear and baked that too. Good bye mental ray and your black holes; you're slow as hell!

As of right now, it looks like there won't be any weapons. The gear is at 848 triangles, and although it could possibly weight a little less, I wasn't sure about the weapon and how would I fit it in, and whether it would have to be fairly large to be even visible on the final shot... so, I was thinking that I might add some sprites so that the mount exhales poisonous fumes, or even some sparks and flames, and I also liked the idea that the mount is a weapon.

Anyways... bling bling, here goes the shiny stuff, and sorry for huge image, my entry is so large:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip18.jpg
and some closeups:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip19.jpg
Off to texturing.

[foreverendering]

Great stuff - your biggest challenge will be to finish it all on time while retaining your quality. You can do it! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Your entry is the only one I can think of with a full character and mount and you pulled it off very well considering you had to split the polys between them!

Keep it up!

[struve]

Normal maps turned out great and very good/clean low poly mesh. Fantastic work so far dude!

[Spark]

Looking awesome Fogman, really flowing well on your low poly mesh. But aren't you over the 6000 tri limit by 778 tris?, as I am seeing the full tri count as 6778. Just was curious before you got to far into your texture.

Spark

[Renaud Galand]

oh my... One of the best entry of this comp for sure. I second foreverendering by saying that it will be a bit hard to finish everything in time, but I'm sure you can do it !!

great work again /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[rollin]

jieee pc ftw.. this is sooooooo cooool /images/graemlins/smile.gif

gogogogogogo

[TBone]

thats some great normal mapping. make it to the finish!

[Xaltar]

Damn nice normal maps /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[MoP]

Really nice stuff Fogmann! I love it!

[conte]

"damn nice normal maps"?
damn nice characters!

[Davision3D]

Great normal map.
Never thought that xnormal could be that powerfull. Cant wait to see some colour in it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[fogmann]

Thanks all for kind words, they are very encouraging in the times when my energy is running out, like these days, for example.

To clarify, the characters are under 6k, as follows: rider is at 2962, the mount 2968 and then the rest is gear with 848 tris, using weapon + gear budget, so it is on separate 1024 texture (which I haven't touched yet =(

Blocked in some colors, if you have any suggestions, I'm all ears:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip21.jpg
I hope to finish the color by the end of the week, so that I can spend the weekend on the rest of the maps, pedestal, and a pose (I still have that skeleton I built for test, just need to fix the weights, so that at least won't take that long).

[tremulant]

Hey fog, this entry is killing it, please please keep going

As for the color, im notfeeling it for the most part...
Try this site for some great color schemes....

http://kuler.adobe.com/
Im sure you already knew of it....
As far as the animal goes, Id say just keep it simple, and stick with an animal that closely resembles yours...The helmet and the tusk of the animal should match though for coninuity's sake

KEEp it up, youre almost there.

[jogshy]

The details, models and textures are simply A M A Z I N G!
I love the mount's wings, very original!

You could add:

1) Some fur(perhaps a crest? or a few widespread? or perhaps make frontal legs hairy?) to the mount extruding alpha-mapped palallel planes, like described here:

http://edusworld.org/ew/ficheros/2006/paginasWeb/making_of_sotc_files/3dwa44.jpg http://edusworld.org/ew/ficheros/2006/paginasWeb/making_of_sotc_files/3dwa49.jpg

2) Some shaders(reflections,specular mod,etc)

About the colors I would change only a few her face(perhaps too pale?) and for the mount's eyes you could make some strange eyes like:

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4008/serpenteyepo3.jpg

For the mount's wings I could suggest you some kind of iridiscency(or whatever is said /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) material:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/Soap_Bubble_-_foliage_background_-_iridescent_colours_-_Traquair_040801.jpg/300px-Soap_Bubble_-_foliage_background_-_iridescent_colours_-_Traquair_040801.jpg

and make the wings thin ( a plane joint to the bone, saves polygons )

However I would change her pants hips(too big and strange unless have some functional utility)... and less cloth will make her more sexy /images/graemlins/blush.gif

The leather and suit marks are very nice! They remind me to Crysis nano suit:

http://www3.incrysis.com/images/nano_suit.jpg

Well these are just some ideas but the scene, as is at the moment, is almost perfect for me /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[fogmann]

Wow, thanks jogshi! Your xNormal rocks my world, awesome work, and I can't express how thankful I am to have this tool, it's a real life saver!!!

The suggestions all make sense, I still have a few polies to spare, so I'll try adding some alpha fur planes. The problem is that there isn't that many pixels to work with to add a good textural fur detail to the body. I tried adding some skin texture and it didn't look too good, but I'll try something more subtle, maybe it will work. Eyes will definitely have to get some more attention, I'll get back to them, great example!

For now I have the colors blocked in, they are a bit different than in previous shot and I might go back and change the hues around a bit. Tonight I was playing with shaders and tried to get some iridescence going on for the shell parts, but as of now it's only controlled by a ramp and some utility nodes, and I yet have to add a texture map to it, but I like where it's going and will try to add something similar to the wings, as you suggest, and the secondary shell, the one just underneath the main brown one. Anyways, here's a quick render:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip22.jpg

There's actually much more detail in the texture than what you can see, but I'll post closeups later.

[fogmann]

Quick update, rigged the bastards, still have plenty to do on texture, spec is missing still for the most part, and damn seams are still there =(. Not sure if this will be a final pose, but that's something close to what I had in mind.
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip23.jpg

[wizo]

that, my friend, is looking very hot!!! keep on going.

[indian_boy]

hell yeah!

[petrol]

Inspiring work there fogmann. That last pose really sets the steed off, if you could incorporate more of the beastie's evilness into the girl too, that could be a real winning pose. The normal maps look beautiful, time well spent! Keep going!!

[fogmann]

How about shot from the back?
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip24.jpg

I think actually much more of the models show from this angle.

Textured the gear, needs spec, and also added a rock pedestal, will try to incorporate some flora to make it more interesting, but just a batch here and there so it doesn't look too busy or detract from the characters.

Not sure how I could add more evilness into the lady, she has to hang onto the reins and sit in there. As for her appearance (aside from posture), I don't think it needs to look evil (would you mean more threatening by saying evil, maybe?) to be evil; really, evil is just a moral trait, and how would one tell this guy was the super evil villain:
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/uploads/milosevic.gif
Look at those sad innocent eyes and big flappy ears...

[Xaltar]

I liked the front shot better but thats just my opinion. As for evil you could try and lower the center of the brow a bit and give her some dark eyesockets and makeup. I found that always helps make women models look more evil (at least for me /images/graemlins/wink.gif )

Looking really cool, can't wait to see your final shots /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Japhir]

lol :P i really like the new pose! maybe you can turn her head so that she looks in to the camera at 3/4? or move the camera a bit to the left so you can see her face better? i have no idea how to make this look more evil.. the dragonfly wings just make it seem cute, and fairy-like. Also: spend some more time on the eye of the beast, i think that could make it a lot more evil (just the diffuse)
well keep it up! it looks great!

[chico]

turned out really great, especially the mount - i dont think i like the design for the chick ( the mismatch, even done in purpose, between the mount and the rider's designs might be too strong for my tastes) but the poses and the overall result is very pleasing:)

chico

[fogmann]

Thanks, guys! The mount's eyes got some attention, and also added spec to the rest. Not sure about adding make-up, I don't want to make Lola look goth with dark make-up, or like going to parade, since she's going to war... I just feel that whatever I do with her face, I'll just make it worse (especially with angry brows >:|), so I guess I'll just leave it as is, and perhaps just rotate her eyes so she is looking at the camera. But as I said, I don't think evil is necessarily meant to be read from facial features. What can I do, whatever I make ends up looking innocent and maybe somewhat cute =\

Things left to do tomorrow when I get back from work:
- Tweak the lights
- Tweak the textures a bit
- Add some plants to the pedestal rock
- Fix the pose (her head can't turn all that much because of the helmet, it just looks really weird when it's deformed, so maybe I'll just turn her whole torso more).

Here's what I have for now:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/dw2wip25.jpg

I'm so tired of working on this, I can't wait to hit submit button and finally get some real sleep.

[Sectaurs]

Its looking pretty cool.

I know you said you spent some love on it, but I actually think the eye detracts from the overall character of the mount. It looks too intelligent now, if that makes sense?

A problem I'm seeing with a lot of the [awesomely] normal mapped characters is that the actual diffuse seems to be lacking a lot. It looks like its missing all the rich color tones and mixtures that straight diffuse maps get, relying too much on the normal to do everything. If you turn off the normalbump, how does the texture look? From the shots shown, it all looks like straight color-fills. This isn't meant to be disheartening, as I'm sure you've poured many hours into them - but I'm not sure they're reading. You might need to exaggerate them more to get it to come across. Most noticeable offenders are the haunches on the beast - looks almost like a solid cream fill with the normal information - and her maroon armor, again it seems a solid color. Perhaps even just some overlays to add some variations would suffice.

Anyhow, its all coming together, and the modelling is superb. I post all this in the hopes that you rally and really give it your all in these last remaining hours.

Here's a quick paintover I did to try and show what I mean. Take it with an immense grain of salt.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v192/Sectaurs/Pimpage/Fogmannpaintover.jpg

[rollin]

damn these wings are awesome!

lil thing.. if you want a back-shot you should pose her like she is looking behind .. over her owne shoulder (eyes?)

atm shes looking a bit daydreaming /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Dread_Reaper]

I know what you mean. Right now she looks like she's contemplating dinner tonight, not the fact that she's riding some kind of beastly monster horse.... thing. The wings are exceptional, but they seem a little dull. Insectiod wings ahve certain iridescent quality that these don't seem to capture exactly. Perhaps work with the texture parameters or maps a bit more, if there's time?

-Dread_Reaper

[Jaco]

Looking good man, good crits have been given though. When you tweak the lights, try to get some harder shading, it almost looks like it’s just self-illumination at the moment. And cast some damn shadows! /images/graemlins/smile.gif
You've got some awesome detail in the normal map, but with that lighting setup it isn't showing up.
I’m eagerly awaiting the final renders! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[EarthQuake]

the only thing that looks crisp here is the ground, which takes the focus away from your character here

[RazorBladder]

I agree with EQ, I looks to me like DOF focus has been centered on the ground and thus blurring out the characters themselves. ( I know this probably isn't the case, I'm just making comparison)

The textures really could've done with an extra push like sectaurs suggested.

The normalmap turned out terrific, it'd be a shame if the final result couldn't do it justice.

[mvelasquez]

Final Renders please! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I hope you got things done on time. It would be a shame if your presentation didn't show your hard work in its best light.

[fogmann]

OK, final renders:
Winning:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/FogLola_Winning.jpg

Beauty (rendered at 11:52 on Monday! so it was far from what I hoped to have, oh well):
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/FogLola_Beauty.jpg

Textures:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/FogLola_TextureSheet.jpg

Construction:
http://fogmann.com/uploadpics/dw2/FogLola_Construction.jpg

Well, all your comments are in place, but the thing is I really worked on those things, yet it was hard (read impossible) to make them show up in this tiny 800x900 render, which made me feel the whole contest was so pointless, and I still feel that way. It's for real time characters and they are supposed to be viewed real time, so that you can see incandescent shader actually doing its job, and not me trying to adjust the camera angle to make it show up at extreme angles and then have to wait 20 minutes for render. I didn't even have to spend time making the backpack, because you can't even see it in any of the renders. Also, I added fine textural details to the skin, clothing and the shell, but of course they didn't show up on top of all the filtering and post processing, and you can't see them on the tiny texture sheet either. I wonder what was I thinking... So I figured I will not make any more models that are not aimed at ending up in game. Anyways, didn't get to do much on Monday, it was the first day of alpha so I got about two hours to put this together /images/graemlins/frown.gif and no time to chill and do nothing this whole week, as I hoped. Oh well, can't wait to start on something new, although not sure how soon that will be.

Sorry about this rant, didn't mean to disrespect all the effort everyone has placed into this, or disregard the good crits I've received, it's just the way I feel about my own entry, and... well, I need to get some sleep now too.

Either way, best of luck to all who submitted!

[Xaltar]

Still lovely work dispite the render size limiting the detail visible. I did a sharpen and contrast tweak on this one just to see if it would show the detail better...

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2415/sharpti8.jpg

I think for the next domwar we should have a better res allowance to show our work, I was also anoyed that 90% of my normal details didn't show in my final renders /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Jaco]

Still awesome work man! I think that high res ortho images should be a requirement next time.

[rollin]

well thats the way of dealing with "do only what can be seen"

but anyways.. i think your texture need only to be pushed one step further.. you have lots of smal-detailings but as you say by yourself.. it doesn´t show up very well in tiny shots .. so you need some more .. graphical stuff.. e.g. give special parts borders with contrast colors or prints, variations of color/brightnes on parts wich look bit to simple.. your model/texture has to work from smal to big scale

and something i noticed.. the seams on the foreleg, where the legs meets the body, can be reduced if you paint the plate-color also on the body-uv-part.. http://www.rollin.homepage.t-online.de/temp/seam.jpg


but i realy like this model and with some more work (as i said) on the textures this would be killer^2 bc the normalmap is kickass

and keep on.. i love you stuff!


btw.. how do you render?.. it took me only.. hmm well.. less than a minute for one render

[fogmann]

Right on the spot with those seams, rollin. That's one thing I didn't get a chance to do - go into body paint and paint the seams, but they aren't very visible so there's the advantage of small render size :P

As for the render, I used mental ray, raytraced shadows and reflections (not that you can see reflections anyway, but there's the reflection map also), and that on production quality settings takes a very long time to render.

When I regain some energy, I'll go back and tweak textures some more and render a turntable so hopefully you will be able to see reflections and iridescence and spec actually working.

[mvelasquez]

I found the 800x900 ample space. I think the problem you were having was trying to fit your mount's huge wing span into a portrait oriented shot. I would have chosen to crop the wings from the construction shots and pull in tighter to really show off the detailing you have on the core. I think the issue of the normals not showing is just a lighting issue. It looks like your beauty and winning shots were mostly back lit so its hard to see any of the work you did. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

I also took about 30 seconds for my renders, hell i think my screen caps look better than the renders i did.

You did a fantastic job on this thing. The sculpting is top notch, especially for doing both a character and a mount. Its just too bad that you ran out of time for the resentation.

[JKMakowka]

Great work, but the final render looks a bit like small plasic figures /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Oh and I can't quite put my finger on it since the geometry and the sculpting looks great, but after that colormap is applied it looses much of its apeal and looks somewhat "washed out". It is a bit puzzeling /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Daz]

This is a beautiful piece of work fogmann. I can sense your frustration with the render stage and how things turned out, and I'd agree that they don't show the work in its best light.
Sometimes work intended for realtime just looks plain odd rendered for a multitude of reasons, and you really have to tweak the hell out of things to get anything remotely decent pumped out. Ive definitely had that experience on projects numerous occasions and I always wince when a producer asks me for 'quick character renders' It aint ever quick, and it's rarely easy to get good results. Rendering isn't something we tend to do a ton of as game artists so it can be a bit of a daunting black art.

For what its worth, adding to what mvelasquez has said I think that re-visiting the composition, posing and lighting sometime could get you some far better results. In both of those shots youre looking down on the character, and thats going to lose some impact right there. Try an angle akin to looking up at a sculpture (e.g http://www.victorianweb.org/sculpture/thornycroft/boadicea1.jpg
) for something a bit more dynamic. That way you dont have to depict much of anything in the way of a background or ground plane either, since that didn't particularly help your piece. It's easy to forget, but real life reference can also help a ton with deciding on a light rig, a pose, and composition.

Dont be remotely disheartened though. Youve got a fantastic couple of models for the reel here and Im sure you learnt a bunch! It's really top notch work.

[MAUL0r]

I've loved this model from concept to completion. However I think the dark and sinister feeling I got from the concept was lost somewhere along the way. It could just be lighting, or render settings... but I get a more light and happy feeling from the completed version. If that was how it evolved for you as an artist, then mission accomplished. If you see what I'm saying, then I'm sure you'll find a way to add that last bit of tweakage to get it back in line with the mood of the concept.