project resurect spider-tank

[SHEPEIRO]

ok while im doing my freelance stuff i want to get a personnel project going.

rahher than a new design, im gonna re-do an old one, that i think had alot of potential but lacked skillfull implementation (hopefully i can do a little better this time)

this is a tank i designed for an FPS style game, the tank rolls on wheel so it can be controlled like normal FPS.

i did this model about 2 years ago when i insisted on using watertight meshes /images/graemlins/crazy.gif, its therefore a wooping 25K tris gonna hope to halve that and add detail and beef. also my texturing skills were photoshop lazy then, now they are slightly less /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/oldtiger1.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/oldtiger2.jpg

[SHEPEIRO]

and heres what i got so far YAY a wheel

800 tris and test mapped
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/tigerwheel.jpg

[Josh_Singh]

cool design!

[Ferg]

neat, if its wheels get damaged, can it ditch them and walk around on the legs?

[snap.crackle.pop]

great lightning, good stuff

[SHEPEIRO]

update.

one robo BBQd leg mmmm

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger1.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger2.jpg

[Jackablade]

It looks like you're wating a lot of polys on the low poly sphere wheel deally. Surely you don't need the chamfered tesselations around each of the wheels vertices?

[SHEPEIRO]

they arnt they are insecting intersecting meshes for the dimples, the wheel is just a geosphere. just the way maxes view port displays it :-)

[KDR_11k]

Why intersecting meshes? Those things could just be painted on the geosphere.

[SHEPEIRO]

im in two minds about the wheel, i wanted something a bit more interesting than a sphere (silohette wise) but at the mo it is costing too many tris for what it does. they are actually inlayed into the mesh (check otu mapped version) but i think your right theyre not doing enough.

i have two plans
1- do the dimples with a seperate geosphere underneath (160 tris instead of 800, but double the texture space)
2 invert the dimples into tread/lumps like in the original design (more offroad :-) which will keep the same amount of tris but give a more interesting sillohete

[Toomas]

Right now you could collapse the wheel "detail" and you would be hard pressed to notice any difference, its just not worth it.

[SHEPEIRO]

the great thing is that the way its mapped all i have to do is delete the mesh, as the inserts are using only a tiny amount of space.

will do

[Steakhouse]

Why does it have hydraulic pistons? in those locations? I can't really see how they would work. Now if the piston went from the upper leg to the lower one then it would pull the lower half closer causing it to "flex" properly. However if it's got that oversized flex wheel for the joint it should have all the systems necessary to power the bend within it, or within a motor housed in the upper leg. In short, the hydraulic is unnecessary.

Now on the other hand if the housing around the lower wheel foot could extend, stomp into the ground, then retract while the wheel revs to give extra grip and forward momentum, that would not only explain the hydraulics in the lower limb, it would also be pretty cool.

I do like the little port on the upper half of the knee (weak point though, shouldn't be as exposed as it is) and can see steam hissing out of them during and after extremely rapid or stressful movements (could be used to give character to an otherwise lifeless mechanical system).

[SHEPEIRO]

he he it has two sets of hydraulics cos its rock hard, they both pull the same way, but hydraulics are quite slow so having two sets pulling against each other would double the speed of movement.

i put them there as a nice weak spot that could be exploited by a brave foot soldier brave enough to dodge the legs and plant some explosives.

i was thinking of a foot design but coulnt think of a good enough reason, i like the idea of perhaps a clamp design, like cranes have, but for shootin the heavy artillery.

cheers for the ideas steakhouse :-)

[Steakhouse]

You're welcome man.

[IceWolve]

Looks awesome so far. It would be neat if you got it in ut2k4 as a vehicle! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

And question. Is is the high poly rolling sphere those circlar parts are going into the sphere, while in the lowpoly mesh, you have it coming out of the sphere?

I'd also like to know how you did that highpoly one, looks realy good, though from those angles it looks like certian parts are being sqaushed or skewed.

[SHEPEIRO]

three types of wheel three possibilities

mmmmm vote time
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger3.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger4.jpg

[jec1183]

HMMMMMM, such an easy choice. Ofcourse you want to go with the [b]80 tri count.[b]

[IceWolve]

I like the first and 3rd. But polycount wise, it depends on if its jsut art or going into a game, and what game, how many will be on screen etc.. :P

[SHEPEIRO]

im thinking 732 actually, as it will be about man height (bit bigger) i think it would be cool to have the extra detail.

i can see how much the body uses

[cholden]

Obviously 80. Come on, quit screwin' around.

[SHEPEIRO]

haha im going for this slightly modified 800 tris version.

it will be huge in game, wheel will be as tall as man, so i think it deserves the extra detail to the silohette.

plus youd never get that many on screen, and there'd be loads of LODs.

its just for art.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger5.jpg

maps just temp/plaything

[SHEPEIRO]

made good headway on the head

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger7.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger6.jpg

thinking of using 1x 1024x2048 texture space for the leg , and 1x 2048* for the body. thats alot of texture space, but i think it would not be unusable in BF2, (a tank is 1o24x2048, and this is the size of a two story building)

about 10k tris at present, aiming for below 20, i know they are very high but i think its effecient and would be workable.

[SHEPEIRO]

poop with GI

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger10.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger11.jpg

[SHEPEIRO]

poop with wires

man this is getting big eeeek

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger9.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger8.jpg

[Joao Sapiro]

shep..your insane....truly inspirational ! i dont like the sphered wheels colour thou /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[SHEPEIRO]

i know ican feel the insanity taking over right now.

im telling you now my next projects going to be psp or ds spec

[polybrained]

looking awesome.

[conte]

SO Awesome! i love this low poly mesh, so solid!

[dejawolf]

i think this colour would be a lot more fitting:
http://armyreco.ifrance.com/europe/belgique/exhibition/kapellen_2004/leopard_2a4_nl_kapellen_2004_01.jpg

[SHEPEIRO]

oh colouring in with crayons will come latter.

its light green to show off volumes.

might go for a futuristic dark grey scheme, with glowing red dot things

[hawken]

I'd lose the stair cases if I were you, they look flimsy and easily destructable

[IceWolve]

Hmmm take the stair cases off that lead to the ground and put like those ladders that can be pulled down to climb up and then retract them. Makes more sense so the enemy cant just run right up there :P

[SHEPEIRO]

i like the staircase, and they cause a bit of contention, which is always good /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

the point of the stairs and platform, is that the vehicle would be assailable. right your a human soldier, you need to capture this tank/artillery platform, but it aint easy, why, its fast moving, has four 5 tonne legs(sqwish), and a giant chain gun pointing straight at you. so assulting this beast straight on wont be easy. once you get on board (either up stairs or by with grappling hooks(think link)) you may well find the platform defended by several foot soldiers. then the last form of defense for the pilot, is electrolised platform. zzzzxzxzxzxzxzxzxaaaapppp

[SHEPEIRO]

update

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger12.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger13.jpg

[motives]

[ QUOTE ]
the point of the stairs and platform, is that the vehicle would be assailable

[/ QUOTE ]



So when they built this tank they thought "how can we allow easier access for enemy soldiers? ahh lets add stairs"

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[SHEPEIRO]

yep- dont ask me why tank designers just arnt as clever as game designers. they just thought your not even gonna get to this point.

nah its a gameplay consideration.

[Needles]

Stairs are kind weird on it...maybe change thet to a ladder running up the side or something

[SHEPEIRO]

i dont like the idea of ladders, as offesively, if troops are using the platform for transport and have to get off under fire, they would have to have their backs to the fire.

but maybe, i could have ramps that might be cool.

esp for all those complaining about why my model doesnt have disabled access :P

[Oddmind]

; ; i was just thinking that. What if one of the troops has a broken leg or something, a ramp would also cause all the hippies/pacifists to be on your side of the war... whether they know it or not.

I think that maybe the stairs/ramp should have a cover to them.. they look like they would be the first hting to go during a firefight with another beast its size.

[SHEPEIRO]

heres some wires

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger14.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger15.jpg

[dejawolf]

hmmh. tank? its a gunship with feet.
which kind of sights does it use?
where do you put the equipment? where is the engine located? fuel? ammunition?

[dejawolf]

some more ref:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/bradley-21.jpg

[ebagg]

I do think the stairs are harming the design...it should have a bottom hatch with an extending elevator like the ship in beast wars...and if they needs a quick exit they can rope down real commando like from underneath with the legs as cover.

[SHEPEIRO]

cheers ebagg, the stairs are staying.

esp as the oppostion to this are darleks

[SHEPEIRO]

more play with the bum gun

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger16.jpg

[dejawolf]

how many troops can it carry?

[SHEPEIRO]

dunno

maybe 8 comfortably.

20-30 if your carrying injured troops away from the front line

80 or so in a victory parade (some riding guns and legs like in a Cher video, hopefully without cher)

[ReDN]

how did you do that? like make it , what program

[dejawolf]

ok. what about ammunition? how much ammunition does it carry?

[Rhinokey]

i think deja is getting all this info cause he is making one himself.. IN REAL LIFE

[rooster]

how many jigawatts are supplied by the turbo-generator?
(looks sweet by the way, keep it up!)

[dejawolf]

well, actually the swedish army was interested in a 4-legged walking tank with 3 cannons, 16 missiles, a huge minigun-like thing, and some dual laser thingy in the rear section. trouble is, that its not currently up to spec,
and seems to lack room for ammunition fuel, an engine,
and general storage of equipment.

current guess of ammunition count:

16 missiles, 500 rounds for the minigun,
15 rounds for the roof cannons, 150 rounds for the rear mounted guns. rear section gun mount looks awfully unprotected. having armour plates instead of rails would be better. how is the roof guns loaded?
how is the missile launchers reloaded?

[D4NN0]

wow deja you have a real problem with the whole suspension of disbelief thing don't ya?

[Ferg]

haha deja... you're cute

keep explorin with this thing man... been interesting to watch the process. This model wip is evolving/changing a lot more than most do. LOOKIN SHARP

[dejawolf]

sorry, can't help it. been working far too long creating 3d models of military-themed vehicles to simply be able to overlook blatant tactical misconstructs in fantasy vehicles with a semi-realistic feel to them.

besides, he mentioned hydraulic pistons....

[Spacey]

This thing looks cool. I can already imagine it rolling around, taking out baddies with its legs alone!

Couple of thoughts though...
The mini cannon looking thing doesn't seem very practical. It's at ground level and doesn't look like it has any way of rotating around. Makes for limited use.
I also agree that the stairs look out of place. If you just HAVE to keep them, have you thought of closing them up? Make them more like armor plates that double as stairs?

[dejawolf]

where do the troops sleep during the long hauls to the frontline? theres no space for attaching sleeping bags or tents. where do they put their consoles, magazines, beer, stuff to eat, more beer, clothes, ammunition etc?

[SHEPEIRO]

whoa,well

in answer to your Qs

here are the specs
-main engine delivers 500flippawatts to subsiduary magnetic tracts, that provide roughly 1000 (shire horse)BHP per wheel and really quite alot of torque in the joints.
- main artillary guns- stores ammunition for 30 volleys (space saving new technology that requires no explosive)
- chain gun- fires anti-matter tipped bullets, as such they are much smaller than the aperture, running along anti-magnetic (just a code name) drag strips that provide propulsion to the ammunition.
- missiles, now these are in short supply, and should be used wisely 20x antiair missiles 12x long range ground to ground missiles.
- rear bum gun (or known as the "laser shitter" amoungst the troops) is powered via the main powersource, and therefore has infinite ammo. not powerfull against most machines (unless particular weak spots are found) but cuts through flesh quite well)

hope that helps

[SHEPEIRO]

Dejawolf,

after taking you comments into consideration, i went back to the drawing board and vame up with this

http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.nsf/0/9e6cdb7ba648f1388525627b0065de66/$FILE/M1A1.JPG

hope you like =)
didnt get much work done on this this weekend, due to having to finish off a bit of work for Project reality MOD

[dejawolf]

here are the specs
>>-main engine delivers 500flippawatts to subsiduary
>>magnetic tracts, that provide roughly 1000 (shire horse)
>>BHP per wheel and really quite alot of torque in the
>>joints.

the main engine delivers around 500 flippawatts?
the highest unit of power i could find was yottawatt, which is 10^24 watts.
i'll assume a flippawatt is 1 unit above, 10^27 watts. now considering the suns illumination is 386 yottawatts, the energy output of the engine is approximately that of a supernova.
basically it'd be more effective to simply drive/walk this vehicle whithin 10^100 miles of the enemy base, and cause the engine to overload, thereby wiping out the whole planet, and the rest of the solar system.
i'd say 28 yottahp to each wheel and joint is a pretty realistic figure, and there's still enough energy to blow up half the solar system.

>>- main artillary guns- stores ammunition for 30 volleys
>>(space saving new technology that requires no explosive)

just say that they're artillery railguns.

>>- chain gun- fires anti-matter tipped bullets, as such they
>>are much smaller than the aperture, running along anti-
>>magnetic (just a code name) drag strips that provide
>>propulsion to the ammunition.

more railguns. i'd be careful with the antimatter. if it touches any normal matter, it would instantly blow up.
so each antimatter tipped bullet would need an antimatter container, increasing the bore diameter.

- missiles, now these are in short supply, and should be used wisely 20x antiair missiles 12x long range ground to ground missiles.

you don't need missiles when you have railguns. way too slow and ineffective. switch them out with a railgun version of metal storm, and give those airheads hell.
http://www.wired.com/news/images/full/metal_storm1b_f.jpg

>>- rear bum gun (or known as the "laser shitter" amoungst
>>the troops) is powered via the main powersource, and
>>therefore has infinite ammo. not powerfull against most
>>machines (unless particular weak spots are found) but
>>cuts through flesh quite well)

if its powered by the main power source, theres enough energy in the laser shitter to melt earth.

[Illusions]

If you'd follow anatomy when doing a realistic future human soldier then you should try to follow mechanical layout when doing a realistic future tank/mobile artillery unit.

[SHEPEIRO]

no youve got it all wrong, a flippawatt was created as a sensible unit of power. roughly 10x the power of a dolphins mind, or 1/1000th the power of the sun. but the engines are really safe, id even let my baby eat one.

"just say that they're artillery railguns." wheres the mystery in that, cant make it easy for my opposition

these are long range strategic missiles, able to fly down mine shafts and turn on a dime (think bullets in Who framed roger Rabbit) also guided missiles are much better for moving targets and planes

Illusions - gimme a break im trying boo hoo hooo

[dejawolf]

thats around 386 zettawatts, which is still 2.8×10^13 times
more than the total world power consumption of 2001 (13.7 terawatt)

with this kind of power behind its legs, i'd assume the spider tank is capable of running at the speed of sound, and leaping into the outer stratosphere.

with the power available in the spider tank, you'd be capable of shooting railgun projectiles at 4 times the speed of USA's best AA missile, and probably 10-12 times the range. with a decent tracking radar for the gun,
you could shoot down whole aircraft formations whithin a 120km radius of the tank. kinetic energy is the ultimate fire and forget.

or switch the power onto the arselasers, and you'd be able to vaporize ground and buildings. just try and imagine the power output of a minor star concentrated into a beam 5cm wide...

[rooster]

I think you should totally do what deja suggests. In your game, you get tought the basics of movement in boot-camp, then as you're flying in for the first mission your dropship gets decimated. On the screen scrolls :

Mission failure! Your enemy has spider tanks equipped with 386 zetawatts of power, enough to vapourise ground and buildings.
Enter high score:
aaa 0
joe 0
bfg 0
...

[dejawolf]

considering that the spidertank uses power both for moving and shooting, putting too much power on the guns would result in the vehicle running of out power to move.
so unless you got a battery pack capable of delivering a constant supply of 386 zettawatt, you'd run out pretty quickly. so a logistical trail with power for the spidertanks continous operation would be vital, or dropship soldiers might risk getting too high scores.

[Joseph Silverman]

[ QUOTE ]

Mission failure! Your enemy has spider tanks equipped with 386 zetawatts of power, enough to vapourise ground and buildings.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's an awful idea, that wouldn't be fun at all. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Try 'You have scored 0 out of 101 points' instead.

[MoP]

dejawolf: Are you serious? I don't think you're helping SHEPEIRO here...

Similarly, Illusions, I don't think that's the case at all. It all depends on what you're trying to do. Sure, if you're making a realistic human, stick to real anatomy.
But if you're designing a futuristic alien thing from the planet Zongulon, you can do whatever the hell you want really, as long as it looks plausible and cool.

Same applies to guns and tanks, whatever. Who knows what crazy kinds of propulsion, materials, weapons and things that will be designed 1000 years from now. There's no point rooting designs like this in modern technology, that's just bogging down the whole thing in an anachronous mess.

SHEPEIRO: I like how this is going, keep it up... lose the stairs though - as mentioned, they don't make much sense, and aren't consistent with the rest of the design either.
Maybe you could have fold-away hyper-lifts or something. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[dejawolf]

well, about as serious as anyone else on this page.

gunpowder weapons are around 900 years old or older, first taken into usage by the chinese.

i'd still like to see some schematics showing the positioning of different components in the interior of the vehicle, and some basic information of the sensory capabilities.
and some external boxes to store repair utilities, futuristic towing stuff, various nonsense.
then some weapon racks for infantry and bailing crewmembers, extra ammunition boxes in addition to the ready ammunition, camo netting, intervehicle communication devices (future radios) etc.
most of it would make the vehicle more plausible.

[MoP]

what if, in the future, all those things are stored inside the vehicle? or panels which extrude out from the main chassis?
i think it looks plausible enough... and personally i really don't think schematics of interior positioning would be worth making. it's evidently just a model for fun and practise, not absolute scientific and technological accuracy.
At this say I'd say leave well enough alone...

[dejawolf]

the leclerc already have panels for storing equipment merged into the chassis, and they add some marginal extra protection to the sides.
storing everything inside a vehicle becomes impractical very quickly, as there needs to be room for soldiers to stretch a bit as well, and there's no need to over-engineer something as simple as strap points for equipment.
besides, armour soldiers has an uncanny ability to drag along more than they'd really need during a battle, and once a friendly vehicle is disabled beyond recovery, you'd be scavenging that vehicle for ammunition and equipment before its consumed by flames.
and lots of spare-parts attached everywhere. spare pads for the wheels, spare hydraulic pistons, spares for parts that are likely to break (current vehicles requires tremendous amounts of maintenance)
storage capsules for repair droids would be cool. like R2-D2, to cut down on tedious maintenance time for the crew.
just a way to make a vehicle from heavily armed, fighting machine,
to heavily armed fighting machine that people are living in.

[MoP]

i think you have an unhealthy obsession with vehicles of warfare /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[dejawolf]

actually, its worse. its my job /images/graemlins/wink.gif
i create military vehicles for a living, for a high-fidelity military simulator.

[dejawolf]

well, anyways, hope this discussion has spurred a few extra ideas among sci-fi vehicle designers.

[SHEPEIRO]

well it is an interesting conversation :-Z

but back to the model at hand eh....

ps Dejawolf, i know where your coming from, my numbers were completely rediculous, i thought you may have got the hint, when i quoted the power of adolphines mind =)

yes it possibly is implausible, as are most of the best scifi vehicles, try explainging flight of the navigator!

anyway back in a second with an update

[SHEPEIRO]

update, nearly doen, still struggling to thinhk of a design solotion for the stairs, one that both looks good and is more "sensible"

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger19.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger20.jpg

[dejawolf]

http://dejawolf.com/monsters/tigerrealm.jpg

[SHEPEIRO]

cheers for the input dejawolf, i really like the idea of the storage under the walkways. id been playing with the idea of having a ladder there too.

not sure about the strap down points, will see about how many polys i can do them with (i think twelve tris each), or add them to the normal map. want to avoid using alphas, and have a nice solid mesh.

thinking about it, i might get rid of the stairs and have them seperatly, (like airplane stairs) with a hookon connection at top.

i was also thinking about a ladder up the side of the head, for maintenance access.

[noritsune]

I think that the questions dejawolf has asked here are important, even for fantasy/future/whimsy projects. I know I have done my best work when I've taken to time to find reasons for being for everything that's present. An extra dose of practicality never hurts, whether you've got a character or a vehicle or architecture. A lack of practicality is, I think, the weakest link of this particular project so I think dejawolf's criticisms weren't too far off base.

[rooster]

I definately agree a sense of functional use aids believability, but if practicality says you can't have some cool looking missile pods because they'd be a pain to reload etc, I'd be inclined to put on the damn missile pods /images/graemlins/tongue.gif. My decision might be totally different if it was for a mechwarrior sim-type game, but my impression was the game concept is a bit more action/shootybang.

edit: on weapons, sure the tank might be a better killing machine with railguns but it depends totally on game design.. should the tank have instant-hit death attack or missiles you can shoot down when they come at you?

[Rhinokey]

yeah this has all gotten crazy ass, its a fantasy future tank.. if you can look at it and believe that its a fantasy future tank, then poof mission acomplished, now if you were desiging this as a real thing to be made the worry allyou want atbout yogurtflops and what not.. make it look cool and believable..

i like this i believe in this tank! it can be in my future army anyday

[SHEPEIRO]

im gonna sit on the fence with this and try and get a nice ballance between believable and baddass

little anim for your pleaseure

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/anim.gif

[MoP]

I still agree that those steps coming down past the gun at the front are a really bad design, they don't really fit in with the style of the model, and they look a bit tacked-on and flimsy in the end. I reckon you should remove them and replace with a ladder or some sort of futuristic lifting platform.

The rest looks very cool. Maybe make the big gatling gun at the front even longer?

[SHEPEIRO]

cheers MoP
ive got rid of the stairs already (this is somit a bit older, i couldnt be botherd to re-render).

in place of the stairs will be sliding armour sheilding thing which im trying to get right at mo. and hooks for detachable stairs (think airport stairs) for troop loading and maintenece purposes.

bit more detailing round the reaer gun, then im gonna do some work to the cocpit entrance and that area.

[SHEPEIRO]

nearly finished low poly, currently at 18k tris

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/tiger1.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/tiger2.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/tiger3.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/tiger5.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/tiger4.jpg

[Lee3dee]

this looks so bad ass! add some cool camo paint job, composite it into destruction picture and your golden! or

make it into a playable vehicle in UT2004 /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Steakhouse]

SHEPEIRO: That’s probably not the best place for a door. Suppose someone needs to get in and the entire turret top is rotating? It would be better placed below the point of rotation, then lead into a vertical shaft that goes between the rotating section and the non rotating section. It could exit out onto a small portion of floor that never rotates, making it easier for someone enter or leave the main control chamber while it's in full operation. This would not only provide an easier point of access for the outside turret gunners in a fight, it would also provide a stable axis to rotate around.

[almighty_gir]

[croaky voice] METAL GEAR?!?! [/croaky voice]

i love it, i think its an awsome concept youve got /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Sectaurs]

I rather like the door where it is. Its neat, however impracticle. Maybe the door can't even open unless the turret is locked in that position.

[gauss]

Steakhouse has had some very sensible advice, but not all of it appropriate to factoring into a design of this nature.

the guiding focus for this design (as with most all videogame related designs) is believability, not realism or necessarily making good sense.
once you start applying good and sensible design considerations really thoroughly, then you design the fun right out of existence. Bipedal mechs, for instance, make absolutely not one bit of sense if you're being serious about proper military design. Same goes for this spidertank--it's a lot of fun, and reining in some of the more absurd characteristics will definitely help sell its believability, but if you get too invested in having it all "make sense" then you lose sight of what makes the design attractive.

Or at least in this case, since I think it's clear SHEPEIRO isn't going for a realistic take.

So for the door, I'm also a fan of its current position, since it's got just the right videogamey touch. Steakhouse's argument that it can only egressed in one position cuts both ways! Perhaps it's of tactical advantage to allow it only to be accessed in one position. You can imagine gameplay centered around that--the player character has to fight his way onto the tank, and must get in and take out the gunner/driver/etc... but has to time it properly, waiting for the door to swivel forward so he can open it. Something like that.

All in all, when it comes to this sort of fantasy or sci-fi design, it's very worthwhile to temper and inform it with a certain amount of good sense, but not -too- much /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Steakhouse]

What you say is very true Gauss. Stark realism is often a fun-killer in games. However absurdity grounded in real and sensible design can make even said absurdity seem plausible. Take a look at virtually any mechanical design in Metal Gear, these super machines are woefully impractical in the real world. However enough of that “real world” has been injected into them, both in visual design and in the fiction trickle fed to the player, to at least make the machine believable within the world that it inhabits. I understand your view Gauss, but for me the more unrealistic a machine is, the more realism you need to inject into it to offset that absurdity, otherwise you’ll be driving a cartoon.

[zenarion]

The design of the tank is awesome. Is this still active? Would love to see this evolve even more. Can other weapon types be mounted on the chassis than the huge cannon?

[Mark Dygert]

I LOVE IT! awesome work so far!

I don't mean to crap on your bum turret but I think it would be a nice design tie-in to the wheel/feet and make it a ball turret (http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1& q=ball+turret&spell=1). From an armor standpoint it would make more sense to have it enclosed.

[SHEPEIRO]

thanks for the comment peeps,

about the door, this "platform" is multipurpose but i dont thnk the pilots would be able to be engaged in close combat while at the same time as using the artillery, so i wouldnt think this was a problem. you dont try entering a tank through the top turret while its rotating, nor would it be advisable to try getting into this while its moving, but it wouldnt be impossible, the angles to which the turret can move vertically (5 degrees down and 25 up) mean it is all possible.

update in a bit

[SHEPEIRO]

update

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger21.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger22.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger23.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c346/Shepeiro/newtiger24.jpg

[dejawolf]

looks nice, although rivets is a sign that armour is thin, or that theres an addon armour array over the standard armour (upgraded vehicle).
heavy armour parts are always welded.
oh btw, like the guncloth for the mortars /images/graemlins/smile.gif

an example:
american stryker (based on LAV-III, which is based on piranha III)
http://www.armymedicine.army.mil/news/photos/fullsize/14_stryker.jpg

danish piranha III
http://www.armyvehicles.dk/images/mowagpiranha3_1.jpg

oh and heres a pic of a dual mortar system:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/AMOS.jpg
big pic of AMOS (http://www.baesystems.com/gallery/land/images/CV90-AMOS-ADV-MORTAR_hi.jpg)

you might find this somewhat interesting for those tiny machineguns or whatever they are on the front of the spider:

notice gunports along the sides.
http://tanxheaven.com/bmp1/2.JPG
heres a view from the inside:
http://tanxheaven.com/krzo/bwp1IFV/PICT0113.JPG
in these brackets, you can put an AK-47, and fire from inside the vehicle. although the side armour of this vehicle is so thin that a machine gun bullet can go through.

[SHEPEIRO]

cheers for the input very handy...

the things on the front are sensors, like a cats wiskers

i will be adding more panneling all across the outershell, those rivets on the american stryker are cool might use those them

[Mark Dygert]

Those rivets are actually large carriage bolts (http://www.seniorindustries.com/static%20pages/Hardware/APHCarriageBolt.html), They hold the outter armor on and make it easy to replace damaged sections. This extra armor was added after they found out most of the mortar/road side bombs in Iraq punch thru the regular stryker armor. So the bolts aren't really by design its just a half ass way of trying to make them more survivable.

Still looks cool tho =P

[SHEPEIRO]

most war machines get updated during service, mine will too.


eg those "eye" sockets were a bit of a weak point, enforce them

[dejawolf]

hmm, from what i know, a cats whiskers is used to sense around in the dark, or pressure changes in the air.
on real vehicles, the sights that are likely to stick out are the main sights, auxillary sight, wind sensor, radio antennas and periscopes.

more recent vehicles usually has Active protection systems, which consists of a scanner radar that detects incoming threats, and intercept boxes, which can be mobile, who shoots out rounds in the incoming rounds direction, then splits, creating a metal fan spray that discrupts the warhead cone, making missiles and RPG's inert before they crash into the main armour.

russian APS:
http://www.armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/EQP/arena.html
http://www.armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/EQP/drozd.html

western APS:
http://www.defense-update.com/products/t/trophy.htm

[SHEPEIRO]

thanks for the links but erm yeah but i preffer the look of my wiskers,

as you say they help to see/sense in the dark
these contain - heat, and magnetic sensors (for detecting large metal objects, other similar tanks (legs kick out signal)) infra red, and something very similar to smell (for poisen gas attacks)

not keepoing it real =P

[ultra]

Xiii so much detail and the mesh looks so clean, Amazing work!
Keep it coming, GL!

[dejawolf]

well, to get facts straight:
you've probably noticed that metals being heated has a faint red glow in the dark which cannot be seen in daylight, when heated.
the infrared spectrum is just below that, able to see "deeper" kinds of red.
a thermal sight is an infrared sight, but can see an even deeper kind of red, capable of picking up heat signatures
which wouldn't glow in standard infrared sights, and displaying it as a monotonous greyscale image.
on some sights, these monotonous images are given a green hue.
http://www.kotsch88.de/f_m1a1_2.htm

a site explaining the M1A1 GPS(in german, but nice pictures)
what you see in the first picture is the main sight, with the infrared thermal sight on the left, and the daysight on the right. the gunner has a switch which he uses to switch between thermal and daysight. he looks in through the back of the sight.

here's a picture of an ukrainian thermal sight, which unlike the american thermal is separate from the daysight.
http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/addburan.jpg
you can see the eyepiece for the gunner on the rear of it, while the sensor isn't in view.(its basically a flat panel sensitive to the thermal wavelength of light, which converts these signatures into a black and white image based on the strength of the signature received.

i don't think magnetic detectors would be such a good idea, there's a lot of large metal objects around, and future vehicles will most likely be made of superglass or some sort of super-kevlar material made from spiderweb proteins.
in fact, modern tanks have ceramics arranged in a honeycomb array embedded in their frontal turret armour.

as for poison gas warnings, modern tanks has NBC protection, which consists of nuclear, biological, and chemical warning and filtering systems.
if the tank is under an NBC attack, an alarm sounds, and the crew button up the tank, and get on their NBC gear.
the NBC filter, filters the air for any contaminants, keeping the crewmen safe.
i'd suppose in a future conflict however, that every soldier would be wearing exosceletons with built in airconditioning, NBC filters, an FCS to keep the hands stable while running, and a HUD displaying operation orders, zoomed in views of the action, etc. basically the weapons utilized will be part that plugs into the suit.

[SHEPEIRO]

im not really that bothered about keeping it too grounded IRL

but a couple of points ceramic armour or not, alot of the vehicles at this time are magnetic powered and radiat strong feilds (thats what im saying anyway)

and i thought infra red was different to heat sensing, as one is passive and one active (like the difference between hearing and sonar (my beef)

[dejawolf]

well i'd think with magnetic sensors, you'd deploy magnetic shielding, to minimize the magnetic sensors from detecting your vehicle, either in a passive or active array.

i'd suggest putting glass orbs, or something like that at the end of some of the "whiskers".
(which would be attached by a wire through the turret, and connected to a screen for the gunner)

since i can only see one door, and the space in the vehicle seems to be very limited, i'd suppose theres only 1 crewman, the gunner. having extra crewmembers is always a plus, both for maintenance duties, and added situational awareness. for example tanks usually have 3-4 crewmembers.
there's the driver, which drives the vehicle around.
theres the gunner, which aims and fires the maingun and coaxial machinegun.
theres the TC, who keeps in order where the hell in the world you are, looks out for enemies, keeps in touch with other vehicles, and coordinates movement. he usually have something along with him to play with, either a 12.7mm heavy machine gun capable of blowing peoples heads off, or a 5.56 rifle which he fires from his hatch.
then theres the loader, who loads the maingun and coax, and stacks around ammunition. the loader usually have a 7.62mm machine gun to fire as well.

btw, cats whiskers are used for touch sensing. when the whiskers touch something, the cat knows not to go there.
i'd think the whiskers are capable of sensing pressure changes in the air as well.

as for passive and active,
active sights needs IR illumination to be able to see, and they usually only work well in the dusk period.
active IR sights is an ancient technology, introduced in world war 2, was further developed by the russians and americans, but the americans phased it out over the much better thermals around 1970s when the M60A3 got the TTS,
and the same for the rest of the western world.
russians however has been slower to adapt, only gaining thermal sights during the later 90's.
btw, passive thermal sights require cooling, and when in the interior, always makes a very distinctive compressor sound.
if you're thinking about aircraft, heat seeking missiles has an "eye" on the front, which can see in the thermal spectrum. you tell it to lock onto a specific bright spot,
and then it flies after the bright spot.
if something dark obscures the bright spot, the missile loses the lock. if another bright spot appears between the original tracked target, the missile will lock onto that unknowingly, allowing the aircraft to evade.
there's also the radar locking missile, which has a lot longer range than the heat seeking missile (around 150-160km vs 6-8km)

no tanks in history has had heat seeking missiles.
russian tanks however, has had wire-guided, and radio-guided missiles, fired from the gun tube.
the americans tried copying this, by creating a 152mm low-pressure gun, capable of firing missiles and various tank rounds.
the gun however was mostly a disaster. high maintenance requirements, gun fumes blowing into the interior, low effectiveness of AP rounds, etc. the M60A2 version fitted with the 152mm gun, nicknamed the "starship" because of the immensely complicated Fire control system, only lasted 3 years in service before being completely phased out and replaced with the M60A3.

[SHEPEIRO]

still think your taking this a wee bit seriously /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Rhinokey]

deja have you thought about paying someone to make you the tanke that "you" want? i mean offering crits is one thing, but if someone does not want to listen, theres no need to repeatedly tell them how to do what they are doing. its sheps tank and he is skilled and its looking fantastic

[dejawolf]

i can full well make my own tank.
just like to talk about tanks, thats all.