View Full Version : aquaboy
Just started working on this while two guys were installing the new heating device at my flat. Showing them wings3D ins and outs was big fun /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Roughly based on this sketch :
I'm giving him a more neutral/spirited away face expression to convey a fish look... Because fishes don't really have facial expressions, do they?
But he'll have big muscles anyway /images/graemlins/smile.gif Crits welcome as usual...
11-11-2004, 05:28 PM
hehe first /images/graemlins/wink.gif
I like him. Cool style like always but I like the eyes on the scetch more. He looks a bit innocent and stupid with the round eyes, now I like that, but I think the more slicker eyes would make the char visually more interesting /images/graemlins/smile.gif
11-11-2004, 05:31 PM
Looking cool and clay like Pior, will he end up as a normal mapped low polygon character or is this just some high poly fun?
11-11-2004, 05:37 PM
Looks cute. I think to make it look more neutral, you should make the ends of his mouth curve up less.
Here's a pic of a random fish head to help out a tad.
11-11-2004, 05:49 PM
That is fantastic. Wings 3d huh?...I should check that out.
I prefer the model to the sketch.
11-11-2004, 10:38 PM
The sketch reminds me of those alien guys from The Fifth Element.
11-11-2004, 11:09 PM
Oh Pior, you silly silly frenchman. I like it, it is much rounder than your normal models. Yet it still has that Pior pizzazz I know and love. Good work mate! Show us the rest.
I'm with Scoob, I prefer the model's face to the sketch also. It just has a more friendly, likeable character - yay!
11-12-2004, 02:37 AM
Cool stuff pior! can't wait to see the body modelled
CGphil, yeah he sure looks kindof stupid now... but thats part of the character. I thought he was a bit too mean on the sketch, and redid some rough studies to find a more bland/cherful/easygoing look that is in my opinion more fishy like. Just a matter of taste I guess /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Illusions, it's going to be ingame someday for sure. The goal was actually to try out doom3 built-in normalmapping tools that seem faster and more reliable that both orb's and max's. Oh and the clay look comes from the dead easy material editor in silo 1.3. This app is powerful for sure /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Thanks for the pic Neo, I definitely need to grab more refs like that. As for the mouth, it really depends on the fishtype : some have a kind of 'upperlip', a bit like this (http://www.carnavenir.com/galeries/sebcarpe2.jpg) or this (http://www.carnavenir.com/galeries/eric_chevesne_jig.JPG). Plus giving this part a dark and shiny look can increase the overall aqua look. But hey I'll also try what you suggest /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Scooby, I used wings3D for the lowpoly subD cage only, smoothing and detailling has been done in Z2. Anyways if you push wings far enough you can get kickass results straight out of the app too. Its free, powerful and superfast to the use.
Hollow, now that I think of it it's true! Mangalords, right? I guess it comes from the little tentacles that look a bit like the Mangalords floppy ears. But in the end it's going to be fish tails/fins on the model /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Poop, been trying to avoid too much 'plastic' stylisation on this one, hard edges and all, for a more natural fleshy look. And it's fun! Can't wait to model the rest, yeah. Next step, body roughing!
Haha thanks Moppius! You'll get weekly msn updates with this one /images/graemlins/smile.gif
I'm with you ether! Can't wait either!
It's going to be great fun /images/graemlins/smile.gif Dunno if I'll have much time to spend on him in the next few days but now that the head is started I guess there is no choice left... GOT TO MODEL!
11-12-2004, 08:34 AM
your stuff is such an inspiration, pior. I love your style.
Yah prior, you can definitly tell it has your style to it. And, if the rest of the model is like the head/face, you should have no problem achieving that lack of hardedges and more of a round look you're going for. Love the sketch too - is it yours? (I'm assuming it is).
Show us more!
AHAH, FRENCH ROCK'S
HAR HAR HAR
11-12-2004, 05:52 PM
Damn pior thats koo but I thought I was going to see Aquaboy of the teen titans. Damn talk about a suprise. heh.
11-17-2004, 05:04 PM
I agree with hallowmind
Yum highpoly love /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
01-08-2005, 06:07 PM
Sweeeeeet ass pior. Very sleak and smooth.
Can't wait to see this guppy done;)
01-09-2005, 07:31 AM
jezus, your skills with Zbrush are phenomonal, looking fantastic. Coyld you show us the low poly cage you Zbrushed on perhaps ? OR maybe reveal a bit of your workflow in ZBrush and such for the people like me that just cant seem to get the hang of it /images/graemlins/wink.gif Please ?
01-09-2005, 06:40 PM
Amazing model, I really like how smooth it is. Can we see some wires of the head please?
P.S: T'es vraiment trop fort /images/graemlins/smile.gif
01-09-2005, 07:02 PM
Exellent work Pior, I really dig the design /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Top notch work !
01-10-2005, 12:41 AM
i'm glad to see more work was done on aquaboy, it's looking nice.
model looking good so far. great sketch
Dur, that's actually what I really enjoy with highpoly... You can put all these little bevels and groves that catch light nicely around the corners of sleek surfaces. I like that /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Jama and Ramu, a little workflow collage for you here :
1. Once the idea is laid down on paper the model is quickly roughed in Wings3D (which is my weapon of choice when it comes to quick polygon modelling. You just have the tools you need, and the whole app is geared towards fast workflow).
At this stage I mainly care about building a clean yet simple quadratic base mesh with only the main facial features suggested. (you can actually push the mesh density higher if you have precise ideas at this early stage. It's just that what you gain in precision an control, you loose it in terms of potential and freedom).
2. The mesh is carried on to Z2 using the .OBJ format which offers nice export/import features and has great cross-application compatibility. I had to divide the mesh 5 times here to get enough density for detail modelling, but with a finer base mesh it could have been fine with 2 or 3 levels I guess... I try to add details along the main edgeloops because if you don't, you go 'against' the model and you'd need even more subD levels.
You can notice that if switched back to subD level 0 the model slightly differs from the original. The eyeline is smoother, the mouth is more horizontal... That the great thing with the intuitive ZBrush workflow, you fix things as they come along and you don't even notice it while doing it /images/graemlins/smile.gif
3. The detailled mesh wireframe does not have the classic precise 'highpoly' look that comes when working on pure subD modelling. The details sortof shift along the isolines... See the eyesocket part for example.
4. All the 'hardware' modelling (tech parts, tubes, aso) is done with the usual subdivision method, just one level of division here. At this stage I prefer Max over Wings for it's solid tools such as dynamic symetry, grouping, hiding and all. The Zbrushed meshes are displayed as bounding boxes since they are simply too heavy for my computer to handle. Instead I display the level0 mesh wich provides good enough guidelines for modelling and proportions. I switch the head models visibility when rendering the scene.
I also enjoy using the 'turbosmooth' modifier in Max for it shows great optimisations over the standard meshsmooth. Realtime display of smoothed models is around 5 times faster... It saved my life for this model since my 1GHz cpu couldn't handle it otherwise.
Voila! Sorry for the long talk /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Gunt, Ruz, thanks, and KP, where is that avatar from? I like his looks :P
01-10-2005, 04:44 PM
it is from the second of two very well done flash animations by adam phillips. they are both worth watching, imo.
the first called "Bitey of Brackenwood" can be found, here. (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/158417) the second called "Prowlies at the River", here. (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/189081)
01-10-2005, 04:51 PM
Very cool stuff so far /images/graemlins/smile.gif
01-10-2005, 09:25 PM
I prefer the name "seaman" over aquaboy! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
01-11-2005, 09:09 AM
man Pior I LOVE YA, haha thanks allot for that work flow tutorial, youve given me the ZBrush floo, so im gonna doodle around a bit right now /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
edit : Man my first try wasnt THAT bad you could see it was a face, but it was all smokey and bubbly and all, it looked like his skin was melted and it had no natural flow, how do you get such a CLEAN looking Zbrush object, which brushes do you use most, do you smudge everything into its form or ?
started on the upper body...
02-19-2005, 02:18 PM
Lookin awesome pior. Personally I would've kept the fishy dreadlocks from the concept, but otherwise lookin tight and very well stylized.
Very, VERY cool Pior. I love the musculature. And the face. Oh all of it really. Im not *quite* convinced by those super stubby fingers, but you know what you're doing /images/graemlins/smile.gif Can't wait to see how this pans out!
02-19-2005, 06:44 PM
Amazing stuff, man. I just had to tell you though, every time I see a render, my eyes rest on that mechanical device on his chest, and it always screams to me "tourist with a camera". I picture him suddenly picking it up and snapping some shots. Maybe it's just me though.
02-19-2005, 10:48 PM
looks really cool. i hope you keep the little tendrils on his arms. infact, a few around the face/neck would scream "aquatic" imo.
and Aqualad from TT has got nothing on Red X /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
02-20-2005, 09:39 AM
magnifique - awesome.
Nice concept and realization.BRAVO.
Rage, yeah they might come back!
Daz, I agree about the fingers... I'll shrink them domn later on as soon as I have the normalmapped lowpolygon model ready.
Pseudo, I thought about that too! It's kind of annoying but fun in a way /images/graemlins/smile.gif And it can be easily tweaked into something else.
Badge, I note this down!
Dizzy, it's far from finished /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Been having sampling some realtime textures with normalmap photography yesterday. Works great! The fur andleather turned out surprizingly well.
divx5 vid :
02-21-2005, 06:26 AM
Looking top notch so far. When you get to the full on normal mapping stage, I'd like to know how you deal with the overlapping objects (like the straps over his shoulders).
great model, and great normalmapped photographs /images/graemlins/laugh.gif awesome technique, never though it would turn out that good /images/graemlins/smile.gif
02-21-2005, 04:55 PM
normalmap photography? what the hell is this black magic?!?!
Cheese, it seems like the built in Doom3 normalrender handles that pretty well. Check Vahl's tut and models /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Vahl, yeah it's super easy and never fails. I've made some more samples using a camera stand, they are even sharper!
Hawk, tutorial here :
I'm not following the exact same steps for the final compositing but you get the idea. All you need is 6 shots of the object : left, right, top, bottom, above, and diffuse lighting. I simply merge a negative version of the left shot in incrustation mode on top of the right shot and put that in the green channel of the final normalmap. Then do the same with top/bottom, in red channel. And the above shot is adjusted and used as blue.
And voila! Fully working normalmap, easy to use as a texture overlay. Works great!
Fleshy bits done!
I just want to bite that ass!
looks nice and crisp!
Sweet as Pior. It has your distinct style stamped all over it.
02-22-2005, 03:23 PM
Damn that's crisp! Only thing I would comment on is perhaps the underside of the tricep being too straight? Otherwise...hot damn that is sweet!
02-22-2005, 03:29 PM
damn pior ! what a good use of this pinch tool ! /images/graemlins/smile.gif I would be VERY interested of a mini tutorial of how did you get this sexy result. I'm still a little "rough" with Zbrush.
Anyways, top notch work !
02-22-2005, 03:31 PM
Yeah, I can definantly tell if you've done a model pior. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I know you're trying to break out of your style somewhat and be able to do nonstylized characters (which you've done before) but most of the time your characters are so damn cool nobody cares that they are somewhat stylized. Love your stuff dude. Keep up the good work!
02-22-2005, 03:42 PM
Looks great, Pior! Can't really add anything that hasn't already been said, but felt I should comment. Much niceness!
02-22-2005, 03:44 PM
arghh that ass can crack nuts great looking work
but why does my zbrush dont do this kind of stuf?!?! /images/graemlins/wink.gif
02-22-2005, 04:12 PM
thanks for the normalmap photo link, and good looking model so far
02-22-2005, 07:15 PM
the Pior touch /images/graemlins/crazy.gif
design, anatomy...all is great
Please say you'll release a low poly SDK when you have the time.
I love it, can't wait to see it finished.
02-23-2005, 02:04 AM
i usually dont bother posting in these types of threads, but damn thats is so amazing. i cant beleive how stylized it is.
Oh, pior... you make me happy /images/graemlins/smile.gif
I like how you have used Zbrush here, you haven't gone and over-detailed everything ridiculously just because it's possible. And yeah, that's one toned gluteus maximus!
02-23-2005, 07:53 AM
Very nice. You have a very cool and distinct style to your artwork. You can always tell when it's a Pior work. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Everybody talks about his ass but what about those sexy, oversized clavicles, hehe.
Well I'm glad you all seem to enjoy his ass /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Trying to get more things done, but still a rather long way to go. The pants are a bit plastic-toy looking atm, I'll try to break that down with normalmap overlays in the final texturing stage. And the back of the lower legs needs more curvature...
Sorry for the ugly Zfighting, these are realtime screengrabs :/
02-28-2005, 04:22 PM
I like your style and can't wait to see the finished piece.
02-28-2005, 05:37 PM
That is lovely pior. The shapes are clean and amazingly well defined as usual. I understand that he's still WIP, but some of those bevels might actually be a little too fine considering the overall softer looks of the model (eg. on the boots). But that's jsut nitpicking - I really like it. Looking forward to seeing the texture!
02-28-2005, 06:50 PM
This guy is looking cool! Love the character design, and very nice modeling. I could see this guy as some new nicer alien species in Unreal 3 or somthing.
02-28-2005, 09:05 PM
this is so pior its amazing
ok like everybody said u already know good job
i dont like the proportions of the arm and/or the chubby fingers
looks kinda pussy
like omg they put me in a game please dont hurt me
i mean what if he wants the scratch his balls?
he cant reach them!
Yeah, awesome (i told you that already!) but I think shotgun is right about the arms being a bit short. it was bugging me a little too, but not really important.
Anyway, if you normal-map him, it will be easier to change the arm's proportions after you've rendered the normal-map, then you can just tweak the lowpoly mesh and make it a little longer.
Can't wait to see the finished product! /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Sweet as Pior. I love how you get a look to the model that's not 'Zbrushy' at all. Somehow you overcome that blobby look and have the really nice creases that change in weight along their length ( something distinctive in your overall Art style ). Care to elaborate?!
PeacefulWarrior, Unreal3? Hehey that'd be neat /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Peppi, I'm trying to get more readable shapes here, especially on the boots and the oxygen plug...
Shotgun, seems like Mop read my mind. So yeah, I plan to fix up things as soon as I have the normalmap baked version, which will make things easier to tweak.
Daz, let's elaborate !
Lifepacks and oxygen supply still to be done... Getting there slowly.
03-13-2005, 11:18 AM
Jesus, how did I miss this one? Love it! Deliciously chunky shoulderpads and detail tapering in and out like a dream. The arms look great, the way the muscles "pack into" each other really makes the shapes pop. Can't wait to see how this one develops. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
03-13-2005, 12:39 PM
Ah the french, what nice work. 8-) Looking amazing buddy, I really like the shoulder pad details. I can't wait to see this one normal mapped.
03-13-2005, 12:40 PM
Looks great pior, write a whole character zbrush tutorial /images/graemlins/frown.gif
03-13-2005, 03:37 PM
Great stuff pior. I have to agree with Daz, I haven't seen much work that doesn't have the distinct Zbrush look to it.
I think it's that your shapes are all contained. Most (not all) of the Zbrush work I see have the muscle details out of the basic shape of that muscle.
Not sure if that make any sense proof reading this. Either way looking forward to seeing this one finished.
03-14-2005, 06:43 AM
ooh no u gave it pants :E
lookin good tho but now that nutcrackass is gone
03-14-2005, 11:56 AM
ai ai ai - it hurts.
Awesome ! /images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Heyhey Kristian the shoulderpads are also my fav part /images/graemlins/smile.gif I love my Mop too! Poop, nmaps will come!
Ryan, there is already some of these available... I'm just stealing everyone's techniques here /images/graemlins/smile.gif Plus classic highpoly modelling, mixed with lowpoly+smooth along smoothing groups to get supersharp edges for free.
Jeff yeah! Can't wait either. Actually I'm glad to have only the lowpoly to do now... I need a break from gazilions of polygons heavy scenes.
Noooo qube, it's just hidden /images/graemlins/smile.gif It still cracks nuts below /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Yeah Dizzy, it actually hurts my computer sometimes! But I'm in awe when I see max7's viewport acceleration. The whole scene with two smooth iterations runs super fine on my lowend 1GHz machine, except some little slowdown before moving things around. Isolation mode is great too!
I think I'll leave it here for the highpoly part ; I plan to add much more tiny details on the texturing stage tho.
Turnaround! MakePreview is neat /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Might redo the hands tho, they really need more tension in them.
Oh, that's just too cool. I agree about the hands, they look a little blobby and not as well-formed as the rest of him, I think.
Great turnaround vid... top quality work!
03-16-2005, 08:10 AM
Very nice indeed man, love all the hard detailing going on.
I'm getting some kind of mechanic vibe from this, tho I can't exactly wrap my head around it. I guess it has something to do with his bulkyness which I love.
03-16-2005, 08:50 AM
lurve it. MORE DETAIL!!!! MORE MORE MORE!!!
03-16-2005, 02:28 PM
that's kickass pior
keep up the awesome work!
03-16-2005, 03:54 PM
this is comming along mighty fine. mighty fine indeed. (000)props(000)
This is a really nice model man! really great chunky feel to it as has been said already. Are you gonna use this to normal map a lower poly model this would be so cool in the doom/hl2/crytek engines. Im sure thier would be a few people who would like to see this as a player model.
03-16-2005, 05:15 PM
keep making stuff like that and you won't have any friends left
Woops Gok thanks for the ingame use question... I totally forgot to mention that /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Yes it's more than planned, the model proportions are actually fitted to the doom3 default rig to make the export process a smoother ride. And I've been learning the assets management side of doom3 recently to be up to speed : doom3 build-in normalrender, material syntax, shader syntax. Its all simple when using Vahl's tut, and need a bit more tweaking if you want to avoid lwo's, but in the end it all works /images/graemlins/smile.gif And with Der_Ton's modelviewer no need to painfully reload doom3 for checking texture updates!
So yeah, 'more detail on the texture' was meant to be read as 'extensive use of normalmap photography' /images/graemlins/smile.gif
On a side note, how long is allowed for the creation of highpoly character assets like that in a pro game dev environnement? I've not been counting hours on this one since I was working on and off on it but I'm curious to hear realworld numbers /images/graemlins/smile.gif
AWESOME Pior! I could eat that.
cool man this will so rock in d3, do you have the links to the tut your using by any chance?
03-17-2005, 04:32 AM
well, haven't posted in this thread yet because every time I look at it I become sick with envy! damn good show /images/graemlins/smile.gif
03-17-2005, 04:38 PM
very cool man, love it. its coming along nicely!
03-20-2005, 03:36 AM
dannngg, great your still working on this one, soooooooo sweeet /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Gok, it's Vahl's tut, a search might pop it up.
Ingame fun! Special Daz food!
Still have to texture him in a wet, plastic-like way to make it fit /images/graemlins/smile.gif
03-21-2005, 06:22 AM
03-21-2005, 06:25 AM
Great work and I'm glad you're still working on this model. The shape of the body works very well with the head. Are you planning to release a SDK?
03-21-2005, 06:46 AM
Woa! That rocks hard Pior!
Can't wait to see what kind of a sweet texture you are going to create for it.
Is all the normal map detail from the high poly model or did you add some normalmap overlays too?
03-21-2005, 07:02 AM
That is great pior. The normal map has some great details in there. Can't wait to see it with the spec and color.
great work pior !!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif finally your PC rendered those normals !!! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
hope you'll release an SDK, I'd be really happy to skin that blobbyboy
mmmmmm chocolatey game assets!
OMG THE NORMAL MAP PIOR, Look pretty cool dude. yup, Except the hands, feel kinda Weird, but I would live with it Lol
MSN ME U DAMN REAL FRENCH!
03-21-2005, 12:27 PM
Sexy Pior, very sexy. But what is that litle artifact on his belly?
That looks great! The expressionless face bugs me.
Give him some life!
03-21-2005, 03:42 PM
Very nice use of the normalmap.
I'm very anxious to see a texture on it /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Hey Tes, yes SDK is planned if poeple feel like some doom3 skinning with mutiple maps and annoying ingame tests /images/graemlins/smile.gif I just want to nail down my own little texture first.
Ikraan, just plain geometry details here. I won't have much overlay details on this tho... mostly little mechanical devices here and there /images/graemlins/smile.gif Some texturing too, for specific fabrics maybe. Jeff and Vince, see below...
Vahl, it took it more than 3 hours unfortunately! Chocalate tastes good too.
B1llouboy, will try to fix that up. I might have been a bit low on the gamerez model on the hands... but you won't see them that much in the end. TGZ, its a kind of artifact while renderbumping... Should be easy to fix too.
The expressionless face was a kind of design choice Cep. I wanted to make it appear rather bland to convey a kind of simple minded, fishy looks. But this might change /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Okay then, here are some tests.
Not much of a pimping but I won't have the chance to further work on him in the next few weeks hence I just wanted to post some progress.
Working with multiple maps is funnier than expected, I like the almost 'scientific' approach behind the material breakdown. Not that easy to get the desired results tho, since Doom3 tends to make things look metallic as soon as a the specmap is anything else than pure black /images/graemlins/smile.gif
wow, saw this a while ago pior and liked it, but it looks great now.
Its given me back a bit of artistic insiration which I have been lacking of late.
(Ruz furiously starts subdividing polygons)
03-21-2005, 07:12 PM
Looking great man, those texutre tests are cool.
Is there any way you can control the hi-light falloff Pior? Like a smaller hi-light on the eye as If its the wettest part?
Well it's a bit of an issue in Doom3 Daz.
Out of the box the engine is not supporting it by default, hence the way to fake it is maybe to use stronger curvature on the hipoly mesh (like on the eye here, which is a strong shape hence 'concentrate' light somehow.) The highlight shape is not tweakable tho. It can be faked on the spec map too, simply 'forcing' the highlight shape and position with a sharp stroke, you know the trick /images/graemlins/smile.gif
However! Someone hacked his way through the issue on doom3world here :
His code is reading the embedded alpha from a diffuse map, and use it as spec fallof level. So yeah it's doable, except that in this case transparency is trashed /images/graemlins/wink.gif I guess it wouldn't be that hard to implement the code so that it reads an extra fallof map... But not that many results have been posted so far showing the mod i action. Maybe it just needs some more advertising, it has a lot of potential.
But anyways it doesn't work on my GF4 /images/graemlins/smile.gif
That's a pretty neat hack though by the looks of things! But surely that means to get the result you want you'll need to be running a modded version of Doom3 right? Or is the shader something you can neatly package up with the model? All seems like a bit of a malarke!
03-23-2005, 06:04 AM
Can't believe I missed this, i feel so ashamed pior! /images/graemlins/frown.gif
Lovely, lovely model, love it how your style keeps up even in such a environment and model.
hats of to ya. Anyway, dude, why you never on msn anymore? I misses yous!
Yes Daz it's worth the look I think, it's a shame that noone ever tried to push the trick a bit further by creating 'demo' materials with it. I'm almost sure it requires the launch of a mod ( at least that what I did for trying it out, even if I didn't work on my system /images/graemlins/laugh.gif ) which is annoying but it's good enough for portfolio pics imho...
At least it allows us to play with the tech even before things like the UE3 engine are available.
Pesti, please send me your adress then!!
hey prior you gonna stick up the full body screens in doom3? look awsome i wanna take a look at thos "Vahl's tut" but im having no luck i searched on here and on google and funny enough googly brings me back here heheh anyway if anyone knows where i can find that tut let me know, cheers.
there you go GoK /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Still have to add the howto make the ppm compatible with KDR's PPM support mod though
[edit : double frogpost here /images/graemlins/smile.gif ]
Haaa sorry Gok I thought it was already more widespread, I was picturing people studying like mad /images/graemlins/smile.gif
I might speak with Vahl about a little something to add ; basically, there is a way to avoid the LWO step by using ASE files and a bit of notepad editing. I could post a plain text stepbystep tut if you need...
You also might want to grab der_tons md5viewer and his 3dsmax import/export scripts.
Launching a test map and spawning the mesh ingame works well, but if you want faster texture update feedback you can also load a map in the editor. It's faster to laod, and also enables you to dynamically move lights around to your likings and take screengrabs from that.
Hope this helps!
03-24-2005, 06:00 AM
Looking fishy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
03-24-2005, 06:55 AM
Cool - this is coming along really nicely. The surface details you are putting in with the normal mapped photography are definately helping to push the character that little bit more that you sometimes get on normal-mapped characters.
Great cheers guys im gonna go and study now (while at work /images/graemlins/laugh.gif) Again i cant help saying awsome work man
And cheers vahl for the great tut /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Smallish wip update... Sortof worked on him here and there between loads of schoolwork, beeeeh /images/graemlins/smile.gif
03-29-2005, 11:11 AM
haha that's awesome Pior /images/graemlins/smile.gif can't wait to see the final version /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
03-29-2005, 12:29 PM
cutest thing ever! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I already said it on msn but hell, great work my friend /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Did you incorporate a global illumination shadow-render into the diffuse texture?
03-29-2005, 05:20 PM
Woow Pior, this is clean. Terribly well done
03-29-2005, 09:38 PM
Back on track!
Trying to find an okay color scheme before jumping back in. What do you think?
I slightly prefer "Nemo" at the moment for its simplicity, yet Saphire appeals me for its funkyness ... even if it still needs fluogreen alpha hair /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Thanks in advance for the input /images/graemlins/wink.gif
Also looking for an understandable way (hello Vahou) to put cubemap based fake reflections on a defined part of the model, in this case, the yellow bits in the nemo scheme, or the green ones in saphire. Any advice?
Oh btw, no GI render added Mop, but I think I'll do so in the end ... Might help making things pop a bit.
Hmm, I like Nemo too, are you gonna make the yellow metal bits into a nice brass finish, like those old diving suits with the big helmets?
I think Sapphire would work well, if you made the lighter parts of the clothing into a different colour, it's a bit too "grey" all over at the moment.
Can't wait to see how you finish him!
And yeah, I second what Moose said /images/graemlins/wink.gif
05-31-2005, 10:26 AM
WOW, I like all of them /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
If I had to pick, I'd probably go wtih nemo also. It has more of the organic/earth tones to it that would place with a fish type character.
Tough choice though.
05-31-2005, 10:33 AM
hehe cool to see him alive again /images/graemlins/smile.gif
I personally really like the Santa sheme has the strongest colors if you ask me allthough the technical bits receed a bit.
05-31-2005, 10:33 AM
i like em all, Nemo the most. The Santa one could go for an additional suit color imo, seems too similar to the armor. Go crazy and go dark green /images/graemlins/smile.gif
05-31-2005, 10:57 AM
prefer nemo, the suits on all of them could use some brighter splashs of colour though
05-31-2005, 01:58 PM
Nemo is miles ahead of the rest and suits the body, its a 'theme' more than a mere colour choice. I would push his armours yellow tones more to orange a bit though.
05-31-2005, 02:26 PM
Oh Yeah , great !
I prefere Nemo , but the gray color on this clothes can be just a little bit -really little bit more bright.
I love it.
05-31-2005, 06:03 PM
agree with ror; the in-game shots are looking choice too! keep it up!
Okay then, I'm going for the Nemo one. I'll keep the grey+green one as an alternative for later on tho...
Still need to push things up a little... Colored speculars for metal is cool too, will try that more /images/graemlins/smile.gif
I'll pack a SDK for tonight, just need to tweak the geo a little (the bumpy tube is messed up for some reason atm). Is everybody okay with a Doom3 map with the model as a static mesh? I can also include a .ASE to use with DerTon's md5 viewer but the results won't be as smooth than ingame since the viewer uses the 'classic' normalmap processing algorythm while the game uses its own... and my normalmap has been rendered for Doom3 use.
Note that you can also load the map in doomedit and play with the lights in there.
I don't know what you use to view nmaps... Do you need an .OBJ too?
06-01-2005, 07:15 AM
Realy cool stuff Pior. I like the saphire one the most. Can't wait for the SDK /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Here you go, things can be a bit complicated with doom3 editing hence I'll try to sum it up as best as I can.
First thing, get the md5 modelviewer, read the info txt and install the application anywhere.
Then get the SDK :
Unzip the zip contents to disk, NOT to your doom3 base folder.
You should have two folders : one starts with " modelviewer... ", the other starts with " doom3... ".
The .ase file in the " modelviewerblablabla " folder is especially modified for a use with this program. You might have to edit the viewer's scene.txt file to make it point to the location where you work. Launch the viewer, hit LOAD and pick the aquaboy_modelviewer.ase . (The model should load, but you'll notice artefacts all over the place due to the way the programreads nmaps. Handy for quick tests tho). Reload the model to refresh texture display.
To avoid the artefact problems you can load the mesh directly in doom3. To do so, copy the files from the folders to their correspondong places in your Doom3 game directory. Then launch the game at maximum settings, and launch a map. Any will do, just note that there is one testmap shipped with the game. To start it bring down the console (ctrl+alt+~) and type :
You can then spawn the model in the map. Console again, then :
The model should appear. Put your updated .tgas in the players_mp directory and relaunch the game to see your changes.
Hope it's clear enough... I'll upload an .obj if you need that too. Don't hesitate and point mistakes in the text above...
06-01-2005, 05:50 PM
Thanks Pior, saphire owns them all no matter what they say.
Will play around your SDK later tonight, thank you very much.
Hey Peanut I'll do the saphire one too when time alows /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Second part of the sdk below:
You'll find an OBJ and a Max7 file in that, and a special PSD I've put together that shows how to fake a normalmapped result with a 100% self illumination texture.
You basically put all your maps in it (diffuse, spec, bump, normal), follow the PSD layering system shown here and you'll get a more or less decent approximation of the final result, without the need for any normalmap viewer. It's an obvious crappy hack but it can help ; you can also play with contrast and levels to get a neat Doom3style dark result.
Hope this helps
06-02-2005, 03:47 AM
I tried opening your sdk in Max, but I got pwned:
The obj file doesn't have anything in it when I imported it into Max either 0_o
3ds max > me
Weird... Don't know about the OBJ, I tried it in 3dexploration and it opened fine... I imported in max4.2 and it was very tiny tho.
new files below, 3ds and max4.2 :
Should work fine now /images/graemlins/smile.gif
06-02-2005, 04:39 AM
Yeh I tried the 3ds version and it works, thanks dude!
06-02-2005, 07:28 AM
Thanks Pior, good stuff to learn from! I feel liek textureing a normal maped model is like painting betwean the lines lol. Btw what sort of normal maped did you use then for doom because in max it looks realy strange. Did you resize the texture for the SDK or has it been this small all along :O amazing howmuch you can get out of a small texture.
06-02-2005, 07:55 AM
I'm curious myself too ... 256x256 is really small, especially for a graphical game like Doom 3.
Hell no I didn't paint it at 256... Could have been a neat challenge tho /images/graemlins/smile.gif
It was done at 1024, I simply sized it down for the layered psd to lighten the filesize. The point was simply to show a layer system that tries do fake a lit normalmapped model. It's not great but it can help... maybe?
As for the weird normals, the reason why they look this way is because I used doom3's built-in renderbump commandline to generate them. It's faster than most other tools available, and outputs nmaps that look really good and smooth once in the game. I highly recommend to test your paintwork ingame to really see how it looks like in the end /images/graemlins/smile.gif
But yeah its a tad complicated to mess with all those maps, previewers and all. I guess the UE3 toolset has better features to offer?
06-02-2005, 09:02 AM
I got totally butt raped by the normal maps, so I'm kicking it old school with a simple skin /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
OldMan, I love the idea of a 'classic' skin for him!
I'm impatient to see how it'll look like ingame. Note that you can also play with spec and bumps (even if you don't go for normalmaps) as they can give you some extra control. But yeah a single texture map is great too /images/graemlins/smile.gif
A couple of ingame shots... Loving the engine so far, no matter what the kids say.
I'm almost done with it since then, should be finished next week ... after the exam /images/graemlins/smile.gif
06-03-2005, 04:17 AM
Dunno how it will look in Doom 3, have you ever disabled normal maps in D3 and played? It's horrible...
Anyway, update (from the big WIP thread):
Okay some news from the technical side of things.
First off a normalmap rerender. It can now be used in any thirdparty viewer since it's the 'classic' tangant space at work here, no Doom3's secret voodoo :
Below is a lighting renderpass, can help for easier SDK texturing :
I also made some test regarding possible ways to display normalmaps outside of a gameengine. Here is what I've got so far, might help those who don't really know where to start :
realtime normalmap viewers comparaison (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/normal_viewers.jpg)
You can see how the same light setup affect the 3 orthos views differently.
The DX8/9 metalbump allow multiple lights but has mirroring issues (see the leg folds, boots aso). Ben Cowlard's Fx simplenormal shader by has the same mirroring issues and only allow 1 light. Ben wrote some more elaborated versions of that tho, won't run on my machine but you might find something that suit your needs on his website. The FxTTnormalmap shader that ships with max7 is dull.
DerTon's md5 viewer has the best featureset, allows multiple lights, specmaps, and deal with mirrored UVs. However it requires asci files and you'll have to make some little textediting to get things to work.
Last but not least, Max's renderbump (no realtime display):
max's scanline renderbump (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/pior_ubb/max_renderbump_scanline.jpg)
Can have any materialslot and any lightning setup. Will messup mirrored UVs tho... One workaround would be to manually mirror the meshpart but it'll give you seam issues and an incorrect Xform.
Sorry for the image load. Hope the info can help!
06-05-2005, 04:44 PM
Update to my skin. Started skinning the arms and the body.
awesome work pior, I really love it !! /images/graemlins/smile.gif but you already know that
I hope your exams will turn well and that you'll be able to get back on that one soon mate /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Doom3 engine rules !!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif
06-06-2005, 03:57 PM
cool model pior..
its a bit late but you can use it of reference.
more on this page http://www.theclubhouse1.net/museum/modelscreature.htm.
good luck .
06-06-2005, 05:08 PM
Good reference dude, this one might help as well:
06-06-2005, 05:54 PM
you already know im a fan boy pior /images/graemlins/wink.gif
06-06-2005, 06:34 PM
Dont forget Cyrtek polybumpers preview.
You will also need an exporter to export to an OBJ file.
Load up aquaboy in max/maya load map in the diffuse and spec channels, aissign to the model, etc. For the normal map put the normal map (the rerendered one, not the doom3 rendered one) in the bump channel.
Export (there is a pdf that installs with the previewer for detials on how to do this)
And load it up in the the previewer and it should work /images/graemlins/smile.gif
I think I might go for a blue colour scheme like in that pic above.
Well, here is my start-
What I would like to know is when you texture a normal mapped model, do you guys still put strong highlights and shadows into the diffuse?
As you can see above, i have some pretty strong shadows and highlights.
Whats the best way to go about texturing a normal mapped character? (in terms of shading the diffuse texture)
I plan on a bump and spec map as well, thats if I get around to it!
06-09-2005, 03:40 AM
06-11-2005, 10:04 AM
great work pior but I would have made the diving suit in blue, blue and yellow
Makk, usually I think when a character is normal-mapped and specular-mapped, you really don't need much painted shading at all, especially not highlights.
The diffuse map of a normal-mapped character usually appears pretty flat, since the highlights aren't painted on, it's mainly hue and colour variation of a basic material colour.
It's usually also good if you slap a GI lighting bake on a Multiply layer above, so the "crevices" of the model get darker without affecting the other parts, makes it look a bit more natural and detailed.
Your texture is a really good start, IF it was for just a regular non-normal mapped model ... the highlights would get really bright and blown-out in game if you use that at the moment.
06-11-2005, 10:50 AM
the diffuse map by nature is simply colour information though it tends to be gud to have a small amount of lighitng in. If you got doom3, look around all the texture files to get a rough idea exactly how much lighting info u cud put, it's minimal if any.
The secret lies into a succesful balance between details put into the diffuse, heightmap, normal map.. and ofcourse the specular map. Small geometry details like fabrics and creases in skin should be done in the heightmap where as general geometry/lighting info is stored in the normalmap and the highlights/shine I store in the specular map.
atleast that's how i understand it, I have limited knowledge how it really works but I feel I'm getting the hang of it with the amount of doom3 moddin i've been doing as of late.
I'm gonna start my skin on this now.
Yeah Makk what Mop and Razor said... Its an exercice in itself but it becomes natural rather quickly. You really have to think just like if you'd been texturing a hirez model, which is something we are not really familiar here /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Break down your materials, and be very gentle with the specmap on the fleshy bits.
I terms of shading in the diffuse map, it *can* help to have a bit of lighting info in it somtimes. BUT what you mostly need in there is a 'dirt' pass as Mop stated : not a texture overlay, but shading showing where parts of the model are 'stuck' in shadows. (think eyesockets aso) You can clearly see that in the textures shipped with doom3.
06-11-2005, 08:47 PM
Ok here goes 3 maybe 4 hours of work, in all honesty I don't know where I'm going with this and I'm gonna let it stay that way and see what happens.. *sniff*I smell a Car crash.
I'm almost tempted to go for that abe pic oldman put but I'll just see how this pans out first.
- Aqua Boy WIP 1 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.hunt1/aqua_wip1.jpg) -
- Aqua Boy WIP 2 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.hunt1/aqua_wip2.jpg) -
I'm calling it done now /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Learned tons of tricks with this fella, can't wait to move to something more realistic now. Still need to rig him and put him ingame tho!
06-12-2005, 02:15 PM
F'ing AWESOME! love all the detail... even the the lil starfish on the boots /images/graemlins/smile.gif
finally I can see those boots !!!
great work on it piorou !!!
06-12-2005, 02:50 PM
That kick ass Pior!
I would have loved to see hiw cloth suit a bit more dirtier and worn maybe with soms stains or fixed tears. Right now it seems too new compared to the beat up shoulder pads and boots.
Top notch nevertheless.
06-12-2005, 03:13 PM
some real kool stuff in that skin pior, can't wait to see somethin more realistic from ya :]]
with SDK goodness perhaps? ;p
06-12-2005, 04:29 PM
YAY FOR BLOOM!
Turned out great buddy!
06-12-2005, 04:38 PM
Aye, looks great pior! /images/graemlins/smile.gif
How do you turn on light blooms in renders anyway? Never bothered to figure it out. :O
06-13-2005, 01:48 PM
I'm almost finished with this, The only thing that I'm planning on changing is the colours/design of the flesh. Unless ofcourse there are suggestions here.
Here's what I've got so far.
- AquaBladder 1 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.hunt1/AquaBladder1.jpg) -
- AquaBladder 2 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.hunt1/AquaBladder2.jpg) -
- AquaBladder 3 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.hunt1/AquaBladder3.jpg) -
- AquaBladder 4 (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.hunt1/AquaBladder4.jpg) -
Crits and suggestions welcome ofcourse.
Great one RazorBladder !!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Haha. Even though it's being lit with normal maps and all, it still retains some of your 'clay sculpted' look that I see in a number of your pieces.
The pinstripes along the arms and legs remind me of using a comb to achieve the same effect on clay.
Now, if I can just quit playing BF2 long enuogh to finish my skin for that fat bastard.
Yes vincent I love boots /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Yeah Ikraan it could have used a tad weathering on the suit. I keep that in mind for later on /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Neo, for bloomish fun just ask Poop! You simply need to grab the brightest parts of your image and blur that. It can turn out REALLY cheap so, be sure to be gentle with the effect. Poop made a nice little atn for that. But all in one, use wisely!
RB, I'm glad to see you had fun with that! Its a bit hard to tell on the renders tho... Could you load it in the testmap?
Kman, stop playing war games right away!
Had some fun posing him today. I feel like I messed with the rig tho as the arms look smallish now, or maybe its the angle... I also feel like it wont make it to Doom3 since the proportions are way different than the Doom3guy ones, hence the mesh would deform badly :/
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