View Full Version : *** Contest Changes ***
10-20-2004, 01:41 PM
Well since the boards went down for so long and people were un-able to post and get help Iíve decided to change the challenge slightly.
1st: The deadline is going to be pushed out two weeks. The new due date is midnight Sunday November 14
2nd: Iíve decided to drop the normal map requirement as I feel itís scaring people away from the challenge. You now have the option to use a normal map or bump map. You have to use one or the other. (You can still use both together if youíd like).
3rd: you do not have to use all the texture resolution originally stated. If you think you can win with a 128 x 128 by all means texture it with that spec.
4th: Since Iím putting up the prizes there will have to be at least 10 entries. If there are less than 10 entries, the prizes will be adjusted accordingly. (Iíll still make them pretty cool though)
This challenge is still going to be judged by the community so if youíve already done normal maps donít worry. Your extra work will be recognized.
Iím trying to find the rules from the challenge but I donít think I brought the doc with me to Reno. If anyone has a copy please shoot them to me.
10-20-2004, 02:43 PM
Lol...actually...I have a printed copy somewhere, I'll type the sucker up if it isn't saved on my hard-drive, just gotta wait for that one...
10-20-2004, 03:18 PM
*****YOU MUST SHOW YOUR PROGRESSION!*****
Yearly Challenge 3: Elementals!
As with the other challenges the goal is to not only push us creatively but also force us to branch out into a new discipline that will affect us as game artists. In this case, Normal Maps.
<ul type="square"> Show at least one concept before beginning. You may collaborate with others for this portion of the challenge. The concept will not be judged in the main challenge therefore if you choose to collaborate, the concept artist will not be eligible for any prizes within the main challenge. It is up to the person who starts the submission thread to divide up prizes with collaborators. (Note: this is the only area where collaboration is permitted.)
Model a character based on one of the 4 basic Elements up to 7,500 tries (Not polies)
Polycount must not fall outside 7,5000 polies
The polycount must be used on a single character and any weapons it might have. If you do model a weapon please budget it within your allotted polycount.
You may use up to a 2048x2048 and a 1024x1024 diffuse map. This can be a 32 bit targa so please put any alpha information within the alpha channels of these textures.
You must have the equivalent Normal map or Bump map to go with the diffuse maps. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO MODEL A HIGH POLY MODEL TO GENERATE YOUR NORMAL MAPS. This challenge will only judge the final character submitted. The actual game asset is all that matters. You have the option to generate your normal map in any manner you choose. You can create a highpoly model, or simply try to do it in 2D using the normal map plugin for Photoshop.
You must have the equivalent spec map to go with the diffuse maps
You have the option of using equivalent detail bump maps as well, but it is not required.
You have the option of using equivalent self illumination maps, but is not required. (This will be handy for simulating Lava or similar glowing effects.)
Weapons or props must be textured on the above maps along with the character.
You must show progression of your work. This is as much a learning exercise as it is a challenge. If you don't show progression throughout the challenge you will not be eligible. This will stop people from holding back until the last minute to show their work.
Your character must be based on an original concept. Not a direct copy of an existing character.
Your model must fall within one of these categories (or be a combination of them, but this must be evident to those who will be judging it)
Dealine and voting:
Was, midnight October 31st, Central Time (US), is now: Midnight November 14th Central Time (US)
All entrants will be asked to vote (must vote on someone else's entry), this will count as half the vote. Once that vote is completed the community will have a chance to vote which will count as the other half.
You must show your work. Please start a thread that is titled as following:
Elemental: Your name (Elemental Category)
This will make it easier to navigate the entries.
Bobo is putting up the prizes, which will be based on the number of entrants in the competition. 10 entrants are needed to yield the following prizes:
1st Place: Choice of Adobe Photoshop CS or Zbrush 2
2nd Place: Wacom Intuos 2 6x8 tablet
3rd Place: Silo, 3D modelling package
Normal Map info:
Well I really think this will be a lot of fun. I would feinitely suggest using Kuman's Shiromiya model as an example of what this challenge is asking for.
I came away from last years challenge with a portfolio piece that I still get a tremedous response for. Without the challege I probably wouldn't have created a character in the 10k range. My hopes are that this will do the same and give people a little normal map experience.
Illusions - My fingers hurt...lol...well here it is...typed up to reflect the new changes Bobo mentioned, and what I remember of the changes made after the initial challenge posting...
10-20-2004, 03:32 PM
Heh, you even typed up the typoes, like "Tries" :P
10-20-2004, 04:45 PM
yay! more time to fix things /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
10-22-2004, 11:15 AM
Quick question- can we use two-sided textures?
10-22-2004, 03:34 PM
Well, I'm guessing you can, but if you can't an easy fix would be to duplicate the area you'd use the two-sided texture for, flip the normals on the duplicate and change the smoothing group...then weld verts. Or, if both sides are going to be the same, use a double-sided texture...
11-09-2004, 04:44 AM
can we get an update on the final display will work? is there a scene we plop these things into? size requirments on renders? do we display flats? id like to know soon since i may be gone again this weekend (job hunting in girlfriend's town) and will either need to enter a little early or rush in the 5 or so hours i will have when i get back Sunday evening...
11-13-2004, 10:06 AM
Iím extremely sorry but Iíve dropped the ball with this challenge due to some things I have going in my personal life (If all goes well Iíll be able to share these things soon).
With that out of the way, I think this challenged showed that normal maps still have a stigma associated with them and that the community seeís them more as a chore than a fun exercise to invest in during free time. This challenge was just too ambitious. Future challenges will be scaled down a bit and normal maps will be optional, not required.
Ok, as far as submissions go (and to bring this challenge to a close), the deadline is extended to Nov. 19 so that everyone can get their work in. I will create a submission thread and ask that you post your personal details such as NAME, EMAIL, WEB ADDRESS, and links (not images) for the following:
ē Flat shaded model with wire-frame (FRONT, BACK, SIDE and PERSPECTIVE) along with POLYCOUNTER showing the correct polycount based on the triangle count.
ē Textured model (FRONT, BACK, SIDE and PERSPECTIVE)
ē All texture sheets created.
ē Any concept created for the challenge (optional)
In addition to the links above please post one Beauty Render (image) within the thread (no bigger than 800 pixels wide).
Thatís it. Good luck everyone.
11-13-2004, 03:03 PM
Personal life over-rides a community challenge for fun anytime Bobo so don't worry. Hope everything is alright though on your end or if not that you're handling it.
As for the challenge itself. Its not that the challenge was too ambitious, or that we see normal mapping as a chore (at least from my perspective I found normal mapping enjoyable). Its that, I'm guessing for many of us here this was our first attempt at making both High Polygon models, and also our first attempt at normal mapping. I myself have had very little experience in the highpoly modelling, that and I don't possess a program like ZBrush2 to do it all that easy, so I had to rely mostly on 3DMax for this entire experience. That and understanding normal mapping is kind of complex. So in all, I guess it was how new this whole Highpoly->Lowpoly->UVMap->Generate Normal->Paint Normal/Diffuse/Alpha/Specular->Finished Product pipeline works that kind of drew it out. As we get more experienced with it, I'm sure we'll probably pick up the pace.
Because of this challenge though, I'm very interested in continuing working with normal maps, and my next few self projects will probably use them as well. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
11-13-2004, 04:17 PM
Illusions summed it up pretty much exactly. It was just the difficulty of working out a new pipline, figuring out which programs i needed to download, and how to use said programs.
good stuff, though. i've enjoyed it!
11-13-2004, 06:36 PM
Yeah, same here- what they said!
One thing for sure, though- I'm buying ZBrush ASAP, because Max 7's 'mesh paint' sucks ass.
11-13-2004, 06:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, same here- what they said!
One thing for sure, though- I'm buying ZBrush ASAP, because Max 7's 'mesh paint' sucks ass.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ohh you mean that cool new featured that they've added that in order for it to do fine detail...or well anything you'd actually want to do you'd need a supercomputer so that the program won't freeze and crash? Lol...yeah...gotta get ZBrush...2... /images/graemlins/grin.gif
11-15-2004, 09:23 PM
I think the event calendar needs an update for this one /images/graemlins/smile.gif
11-18-2004, 04:20 PM
I find working with normal maps a chore most because my pipeline is so screwed up. Where you see Gmax, that is where I am working on a model away from home, most likely when at work in my downtime.
3DSMax->PhotoShop->3DSMax->Milkshape(better preview window)->get fustrated and give up.
I am sure if I had a few day off work where I could block out some serrious time to experiment and do some trial and error it wouldn't be so bad. But because I have to use Gmax for most of the process I am kind of screwed.
(Insert more bitching here)
11-19-2004, 09:47 PM
yeah, normal mapping wasnt AS hard as it seemed at first.
but yeah it was a pain trying to figure out all the programs i needed, learning the programs and getting everything set up to make the normal maps.
also as stated above, ive never worked with high poly before and 7500 is also twice the poly count i have worked at. and as you can see in my entry post, i didnt even use all of the alloted polies. which is why i 'skimped' and did ye olde meshsmooth, generated the normal and added a bump to the normal with Orb.
also learning just how much detail is needed in the diffuse map and how much the normal map can take care of was new to me as well.
overall it was a more complicated path than what most of us are used to.
that and i kinda jumped the gun without properly thinking out my concept.. /images/graemlins/blush.gif
11-20-2004, 11:19 AM
Not even ten entries?! Damn, people, what happened? There were some great designs- a lot of people seemed close. Dang. Was everyone spooked by the normal mapping? I had a hard time with it... Well, congrats to those of you who made it- there's some great work and the variety is just incredible. And for the rest of you, I hope to see your work finished eventually over in Pimping.
11-20-2004, 12:01 PM
Yeah, I was sorta upset that there weren't ten entries either. Oh well, I still had a great time working on it, plus I think it will make for an excellent portfolio peice.
Yeah. I would have been able to make it if I wasn't working on getting a job. That sapped all of my time up pretty quick. I still want to finish it though.
11-27-2004, 03:29 PM
So, does anyone know if anything is happening anymore with this challenge...or is this dead in lieu of other events...
dig dog dig
11-29-2004, 08:48 AM
Yeah, I was spooked by the normals requirement. What this challenge did do though was promt me to spend the time on learning this new whole new shubang. I (like many others I would imagine) have no experience in hi-poly. Hell the densest mesh I've ever made is 2800 so there was that to figure in also.
11-30-2004, 10:12 AM
I'm going to be working with the judges this week on deciding a winner. We will announce on Friday.
11-30-2004, 10:37 AM
Sweet! I've been looking forward to the ruling as all the entries were very well crafted.
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